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Post-match Thread: Morecambe v Charlton Athletic | Tuesday 23 November 2021
Comments
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On reflection the morning after, I’m not quite as disappointed as I was during and after the game. The ref was (yet again) a joke of the unfunny variety but in truth we have no one and nothing to blame for the loss of two valuable points than ourselves and tiredness. Our injuries and the impact of recent heroic efforts simply took their toll. The second half was particularly poor with a worrying hark back to some of the dark days under Nigel. But hopefully in the overall run of things just a bump in the road. We were clearly the better side and it’s great to see us dominate a game again. But we won’t get away with that amount of sloppiness against a decent side. Morecambe were there for the taking and we let them off.What did I learn from last night? Well, for one thing, Clare and Dobson are not the hopeless Poundland buys that I thought they were. Both now deservedly fixtures in the team. For another, I’m afraid my views that Davison is not League 1 standard and Kirk is an absolute dud were given fresh justification. How on Earth Gunter has made 100 odd international appearances is beyond me. And where on earth is Arter when we need him? Our recently assembled squad still needs some savage pruning. As my fellow rose lovers will know, January is the time for savage pruning in pursuit of glorious regrowth. Get those secateurs at the ready Thomas.In a perverse sort of way, this will be a good test for Jacko. The wheels didn’t come off the bus but last night was a puncture. Hopefully he’ll be able to regroup and we’ll see a return to winning ways on Saturday. The winning streak had to end and how he manages that will inform any remaining thought processes that are going on in Thomas’s head.No real harm done. Every point is a prisoner, but a couple managed to tunnel out last night which is annoying but a reality check. Onwards and hopefully upwards. COYR.3
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Okay Golfie, we get it, you dont like Charlie Kirk.golfaddick said:
A downgrade on Jonny William'sWK6824Nine said:Charlie kirk is a slow left attacking midfielder of sorts. a link up player as one other person said
As I said before, there were players playing 90 minutes who didnt influence the game as much as they should so why is Kirk expected to do it in 12 minutes.
He hasnt played in a while, confidence was shot and that has to be built up again.
I felt he looked tidy and was alert, looking to link up play but unfortunately the team was knackered at this point so werent busting a gut!7 -
Run out of legs/options January can't come quick enough defensively we are bare. Clear foul for the corner and there 2nd.
Still looked good going forward, would be tempted with young Mason to start Saturday2 -
Feels like and was two points lost after going two up. Defensive injuries now starting to bite.0
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golfaddick said:
Ever heard of David Fairclough.. ?Ormiston_Addick said:For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.
Yes, he was in Coronation street when you were an optimist.4 -
That's a reasonable point per se.golfaddick said:About the "added on time" debate.
I noticed that when their announcer said there was 3 mins added on time the clock on the tv (CAFC player ?) said around 89.50 & I did not see any board go up. Just wondering whether the clock was wrong or didn't start on time when play kicked off for the 2nd half as that would count for the ref blowing at around 92.50.
Just because a clock on your tv says what time it is it doesnt have to mean that that is the actual time.
However it just underlines my point, and the remedy. We pay for this circus. At the very least we all deserve to know what the effing time is, or rather what time they think it is.0 -
Gunter is not a centre back and here he was up against one of the leagues top scorers,apart from the penalty,(which was preceded by a foul) he kept him quiet all night.The ref was the only one in the ground who did not see the foul on cClare before the corner,and Craig should have claimed the subsequent kick.All ifs and buts ,with any one of our cbs fit we clear the corner without the keepers help.Stockley would have a field day on saturday and in this game,we must stop him getting these bookings.I dont often say this,that ref was bent,how could he blow up 10 seconds early,normally its at least an extra minute" a minimum of 3 minutes".The lads clearly need some sort of rest pre saturday,as they looked understandably leggy,but so difficult when they will probably be on the road on friday having not got home until wed afternoon.
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It's not just the injuries that are catching up with us but some bad looking transfers of players we don't want in the first team.0
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Agreed curbs and brownie have got carried away with our recent form. Seems a few people on here have aswellsoapboxsam said:I'm interested in what the sober guys made of that performances because I thought Curbs and Brownie were judging the performance as if we were a top 2 team.
*"We win tonight then we win Saturday"
Really ! Since when has it been that easy ?
Before our stand in CB Gunter got bullied it was easy, but should JJ have played Deji last night and risked him getting battered by Stockton ? Maybe, but JJ has made so many good calls and DJ made a fantastic pass to Washington before he was taken off and CBT didn't lose the ball once when coming on. When was the last time we were pushing for a win in the last quarter of an away game without just hitting aimless long passes to Stockley ? Both Lee and Washington nearly unlocked their defence and Conor's shot so nearly found the net late on.
If it wasn't for two lapses over the 92 minutes, (WTF was the referee doing blowing early when we are having a shot at goal )? Then that was a comfortable win.
I said in preview its difficult with only one CB especially away from home and without Stockley at defending set pieces and that was our undoing and why 3 points didn't happen.
I was encouraged the amount of control we had, we continued to probe and for large parts of the 2nd half they were camped in their own half as we strung a myriad of passes together. They played for a point at home which shows you how much we have improved under our next full time manager.
Is it Deji Elerewe time ? I think it will have to be because no way should Purrington go back 3 when he has been so successful as a wing back striker ! Kirk is an inverse winger and with Jayden that may have worked but Davison isn't or wasn't sharp in the box last night so difficult for Charlie to impress in his cameo.
The taming of the Shrews next and hopefully no more injuries and Leko can be involved at some point.
* Of course Jacko tells the team they can win both matches and we should've but players missing harmed our chances of 3 points. A CB and up front we were short but Stockley was foolish and we paid the price.1 -
No, not really.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Any positives from last night?golfaddick said:
Ever heard of David Fairclough.. ?Ormiston_Addick said:For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.
We didnt lose is the main one.
Clare & Dobson had good games & Washington's finish was excellent.
Just glad that performance wasn't in front of a packed Valley.1 - Sponsored links:
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Excellent post & just about sums up my feeling - especially about the players named.Sillybilly said:On reflection the morning after, I’m not quite as disappointed as I was during and after the game. The ref was (yet again) a joke of the unfunny variety but in truth we have no one and nothing to blame for the loss of two valuable points than ourselves and tiredness. Our injuries and the impact of recent heroic efforts simply took their toll. The second half was particularly poor with a worrying hark back to some of the dark days under Nigel. But hopefully in the overall run of things just a bump in the road. We were clearly the better side and it’s great to see us dominate a game again. But we won’t get away with that amount of sloppiness against a decent side. Morecambe were there for the taking and we let them off.What did I learn from last night? Well, for one thing, Clare and Dobson are not the hopeless Poundland buys that I thought they were. Both now deservedly fixtures in the team. For another, I’m afraid my views that Davison is not League 1 standard and Kirk is an absolute dud were given fresh justification. How on Earth Gunter has made 100 odd international appearances is beyond me. And where on earth is Arter when we need him? Our recently assembled squad still needs some savage pruning. As my fellow rose lovers will know, January is the time for savage pruning in pursuit of glorious regrowth. Get those secateurs at the ready Thomas.In a perverse sort of way, this will be a good test for Jacko. The wheels didn’t come off the bus but last night was a puncture. Hopefully he’ll be able to regroup and we’ll see a return to winning ways on Saturday. The winning streak had to end and how he manages that will inform any remaining thought processes that are going on in Thomas’s head.No real harm done. Every point is a prisoner, but a couple managed to tunnel out last night which is annoying but a reality check. Onwards and hopefully upwards. COYR.1 -
So there was positives thengolfaddick said:
No, not really.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Any positives from last night?golfaddick said:
Ever heard of David Fairclough.. ?Ormiston_Addick said:For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.
We didnt lose is the main one.
Clare & Dobson had good games & Washington's finish was excellent.
Just glad that performance wasn't in front of a packed Valley.7 -
PWR. We looked like we were running on empty after Saturday’s game which is understandable given the intensity of that game, we were playing Morecambe, we drew. I notice Plymouth who were playing a team at the top of the table lost. Equally understandable after last Saturday’s game. I suspect both teams will bounce back this Saturday once they’ve had more of a chance to restore their energy levels.1
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Don't be downers about the result and how it ended. Let it go.
Frustrating, yes. We didn't lose though and JJ remains unbeaten.
Just carry on climbing up the table.
Remember how awful it was prior to Jackson. At least now, there is a difference and our performances indicate we should be winning.9 -
Phew!EveshamAddick said:
I’ve read elsewhere that not all Dobson’s bookings are in the league so he won’t be suspended.JamesSeed said:Referee was a shocker. Blowing the final whistle just as someone's shooting on goal is very bad refereeing, especially when there are ten seconds left to play. Their pen should have been a free kick to us. Stockton grabbed Gunter's shirt and pushed him in to the box, and engineered his dive to the ground. Gunter was a little weak and naïve to allow it to happen though. But he isn't a centre back, so I don't get all the vilification. Jackson didn't mention the ref in his post match, which is another example how different he is from Bowyer.
We started really well, and when we were two up I thought we'd win comfortably (4-0?), but the penalty disrupted us more than it should have. After that we lost a bit of focus and looked tied. Nonetheless we totally dominated the second half, but fair play to Fleetwood, they defended in numbers and we weren't able to break them down. Dobson was excellent again, except for one misplaced pass.
A few weeks back, at 2-2, we'd have been the one's with our backs to the wall defending the draw, so let's no get to despondent, eh.
Let's hope we can raise a team for the Shrewsbury match. Am I right in thinking Dobson's suspended after that yellow? It looked like it, from his reaction to the card.
I was just breathing a sigh of relief, until I read that speculation, that the clown never managed to book Famewo, but there was a second player on four last night who had to get through it. I think it might have been Purrington.0 -
I think he goes for power but should be placing it more- not an easy to learn, to have that presence of mind when you get 1 or 2 chances a game. Its almost one of those things you either have or you don't.EugenesAxe said:Davison doesn’t have a shot on him which is unfortunate for a striker0 -
Agree, he clearly did get past players and usually found a team mate to pass to.AFKABartram said:Think people are being very harsh on Kirk personally
Where I thought his game fell down big time was after he gave the ball, he struggled to get himself in a useful position to receive it back or draw a defender away so effectively a waste of a player in that area.
He tried but wasn't figuring out how to do it.2 -
A few weeks back we were relegation candidates under Mr Happy.Dave2l said:Don't be downers about the result and how it ended. Let it go.
Frustrating, yes. We didn't lose though and JJ remains unbeaten.
Just carry on climbing up the table.
Remember how awful it was prior to Jackson. At least now, there is a difference and our performances indicate we should be winning.1 -
Two goal lead lost is never a good thing, but given the situation regarding injuries and suspensions (and the intensity of the JJ system) a bump like this was inevitable eventually I feel.
What's important now is Jackson's reaction to the first real potential hitch. How does he respond with his team selection (does Elewere come in? Is Leko ready to come back?) and more importantly, how does he get the players fired back up. We know that he is excellent at handling a positive dressing room so let's hope that he can turn around a disheartened one - after all, we've seen that these players do care after all and will not be any happier than we are to lose a lead like that.4 -
I don't think playing Gunter was the wrong decision. Playing Elewere would have been a massive risk against Stockton, especially without an experienced CB alongside him.
Yes we were the better side, but we lacked the cutting edge up front to break down a resolute Morecambe defence and always looked vulnerable to set pieces. It was a bit like a battling smaller PL side like Burnley holding out for a draw against a bigger side.8 - Sponsored links:
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Kirk was a little disappointing in that instead of pushing on down the wing he’d stop and let the defenders get back to mass around him as if his intention was to line them up to beat. Sort of reminded me a bit of Mortimer though, albeit in a different sense in that he would beat 3 or 4 players then turn around so he he could try and beat them again, that or he’d lost his sense of direction in the process. I suspect Kirk might be better suited in a more central position instead of out on the wing.TellyTubby said:
Agree, he clearly did get past players and usually found a team mate to pass to.AFKABartram said:Think people are being very harsh on Kirk personally
Where I thought his game fell down big time was after he gave the ball, he struggled to get himself in a useful position to receive it back or draw a defender away so effectively a waste of a player in that area.
He tried but wasn't figuring out how to do it.1 -
I’m sure I heard that as of yesterday the rules for booking suspensions had gone to ten yellow cards instead of five.-Edit- I was right . Yellow cards last night wouldn’t have lead to a ban unless it was a tenth .
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What's Coronation Street got to do with it?golfaddick said:
Ever heard of David Fairclough.. ?Ormiston_Addick said:For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.
NB: Only those 50+ will get this joke.1 -
We'd have won that win another centre-forward at the club. Summer recruitment howler not to bring someone in.AFKABartram said:We’re not going to win every game, but I’m convinced we’d have won that with Stockley playing5 -
A game away from home up north against one of the divisions best strikers probably isn't the game to play an 18 year old kid.golfaddick said:
A lot of assumptions there which are likely to be 99% wrong. But the alternative was to play Gunter who gave away a pen.ForeverAddickted said:
Deji ElereweGarrymanilow said:
Not like we could really put anyone else there is it?charlton_hero said:We can't be playing Gunter at centre half anymore, I thought we learnt that lesson last season.
It was a weird sort of game, Morecambe offered next to nothing and we dominated for large parts, but we looked sloppy and tired throughout. It's two points dropped. Onto the next.
But then if he's shown to be iffy in training when dealing with a physical striker, then Stockton would have ended his career.
More square pegs in round holes. Just like Bowyer before him. Jackson had better learn quick or Sandgaard might be correct in wanting to look elsewhere for a manager.
PLAY A CENTRE HALF AT CENTRE HALF
And whilst it's easy to knock Gunter and say we should play a natural centre back there, we then have Clare who's not a natural centre back but is playing really well there. Sometimes it works, sometimes it might not, that's football.7 -
I think everyone would've taken 4 points from the last 2 games. Disappointing to let a 2 goal lead slip but we go again!1
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Tbf to Golfie he's spot on about the recruitment up top. Davison grows on you due to his effort but if we're being honest he shouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11. Not even attempting to replace Chuks was farcical, and costs us points in matches like last night.Stig said:
I agree that Davison hasn't got the sort of goal return we'd want to see from a striker playing every game, but to liken him to Schwartz is wild. One plays his heart out every week. The other didn't put in the same effort in all his matches combined. He literally stood rooted to the ground like little boy lost. The reason why Davison is cut some slack is because he never gives less that 100% effort.golfaddick said:
I really don't know how he has survived this long at the club. Poor old Schwartz was hammered on here for doing much the same thing. But because Davison is "one of our own" we must stick by him & play him every week...EugenesAxe said:Davison doesn’t have a shot on him which is unfortunate for a striker5 -
But be touched the ball a lot in that time, and did absolutely nothing with it. He's supposed to be our marquee signing, an exciting winger, and a perfect impact sub. Problem is he didn't have any impact whatsoever.Ormiston_Addick said:For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.2 -
He looked very one dimensional when compared with our other wide options, who've all adapted to Jacko's formation and tactics. And seem more two footed, making them harder to defend against.letthegoodtimesroll said:
Kirk was a little disappointing in that instead of pushing on down the wing he’d stop and let the defenders get back to mass around him as if his intention was to line them up to beat. Sort of reminded me a bit of Mortimer though, albeit in a different sense in that he would beat 3 or 4 players then turn around so he he could try and beat them again, that or he’d lost his sense of direction in the process. I suspect Kirk might be better suited in a more central position instead of out on the wing.TellyTubby said:
Agree, he clearly did get past players and usually found a team mate to pass to.AFKABartram said:Think people are being very harsh on Kirk personally
Where I thought his game fell down big time was after he gave the ball, he struggled to get himself in a useful position to receive it back or draw a defender away so effectively a waste of a player in that area.
He tried but wasn't figuring out how to do it.
Yes he was only on for 12 minutes, but fresh legs against tired defenders ought to cause them more problems.2 -
We can't keep dwelling on past mistakes re recruitment - need to move on and look forwards.1
