Kirk is a right footed player on the left of course he is going to cut in each time and not go pass anyone.
For once can we try not to find a scapegoat and be pleased we have 14 points from 18 under JJ despite being short on players in vital positions.
Gutted we didn't get the win from 2-0 up but we knew we were trying to cover up the lack of a 1st team CB and a 1st team striker. They were bang average but Stockton is lively.
I think some refs would give it as a penalty. Some wouldn't but we can't complain. Gunter has to be stronger and not allow Stockton to push him into the area. It depends whether they view Stockton was challenging on the right side of it being a foul or not. The corner they equalised from, well no ref would not give a foul on Clare, but tonight's didn't for some reason. And then playing a low 3 minutes and blowing before they were up with us attacking in their box. That is unusual isn't it?
I thought before the game started our bench was weak , no real goal threat . Leko should be involved at Shrewsbury , but we are down to the bare bones. Gunter can't be expected to slot in at centre back , having said that he was pony . Davison tries , but lacks quality . Less said about the ref the better .
Can't expect too much when we have just one fit centre-back and our main striker is suspended.
Davison looked like a decent replacement earlier in the season but has not offered any threat the last few games. I'm not sure what kind of striker he is. He's not a target man, a poacher, he's not technical, he doesn't play on the half-turn... I think he's still got to figure that question out himself.
Gunter has earned any criticism he gets. A few decent games don't make up for his record. He seems to switch on when he's about to go away for Wales and switch off when he gets back. I have no sympathy for the bloke.
I didn't think Kirk did anything wrong when he came on. He's not the type of winger to take on his man and skin him. He picks out a pass and gets into good positions. But when the oppo are sitting that deep, there's not much point.
I thought we were a little too patient at the end if anything. Sideways, sideways, back... Just buy yourself have a yard and whip it in, or have a shot.
It was a typical crappy league one away day where your technique goes to pieces, nothing really comes off and the ref is complete shite. As someone else said, the draw would feel a lot better if it wasn't for Adkins poor start.
I struggle to see how Kirk fits into any position, with this formation Jacko has got us playing well in.
We looked sloppy and tired towards the end, following big shift Saturday.
Meh. But, I guess if you can’t win the game, don’t lose it.
Given that Kirk apparently can't dribble, cross, tackle or shoot it is hard to see what formation would suit him. Maybe goalhanger in the playground (I used to play there)
What was frustrating was the amount of free kicks and set pieces we gave away. Yes the ref was poor, but I thought we were a bit naive to give them so many chances at chucking our ball into the box. A physical team like Morecambe will fancy their chances at corners against us. A word on the penalty, looked a bit soft to me but it was poor defending from Gunter. If Elerewe gave that pen away we'd saying it shows his youth/inexperience, so i expect much better from Gunter. Not quite sure why Kirk is getting so much stick, played for 10 minutes and although it was a bit frustrating not taking the full back on, he didn't do too badly imo.
Yes I think a lot of good and fair points have made about injuries and suspensions finally catching up with us. It’s easy to sometimes forgot when you’re riding the crest of a wave and results are going well it’s easy to forget just how depleted we might be. That aside we still should have had enough about us to us grind out the win from 2 -0 up but we’re still unbeaten under Jacko and go again at Shrewsbury on.the weekend
I think some refs would give it as a penalty. Some wouldn't but we can't complain. Gunter has to be stronger and not allow Stockton to push him into the area. It depends whether they view Stockton was challenging on the right side of it being a foul or not. The corner they equalised from, well no ref would not give a foul on Clare, but tonight's didn't for some reason. And then playing a low 3 minutes and blowing before they were up with us attacking in their box. That is unusual isn't it?
I’ve been saying for ages the whole way extra time is handled in England needs to be put under scrutiny. They always announce it as “a minimum of…” so you should never, ever blow 10 seconds earlier. At the same time I have no idea where 6 mins came from on Saturday.
They need to take responsibility away from the match ref, give it to the 4th official, have his watch wired to the stadium clock so we all see exactly now long the clock has been stopped for, and then sound an electronic whistle exactly on the 90.00 on the clock. Like in ice hockey. Which could mean that it blows just as Dobbo shapes to shoot in the box, but at least we’d all be expecting it.
Not rocket science, but referee egos will never allow it.
Given our lack of defensive options and tiredness I would think of going to a flat back 4 at Shrewsbury. Mac Gunter/Clare Elerewe Famewo Purrington DJ Dobson Gilbey Lee Washington Leko
Gunter/Clare and Famewo can help Elerewe out and Famewo would be more central to deal with a big number 9. Plenty of movement all over the pitch.
Terrific support from those up there, though it’s two games in a row now I proper hate that der der der der der der der der derrrr song and fear it’s becoming a permanent fixture :-(
A lot of shit chants going round, the Christmas one tonight being one of them.
My major gripe though would be the drummer's recent decision to stray away from our classic chants when we win a corner. Saturday and this eve the old school response to a Charlton corner was forgotten.
We started really well. I felt we were good in possession, looked solid at the back and worked the ball well into dangerous spots and obviously scored early on. Great assist for the second and I thought that was that. Then the ref decided he wants more of a contest and awarded a very soft pen, which from my view should have gone the other way a few seconds earlier. Then we lost a little bit of composure, rushed to get it forward and Morecambe got a little bit of belief. They played a few long balls that we dealt well with mostly, and they had a few freekicks for some unknown reasons. We weren’t that strong defending corners and looked vulnerable a couple of times and missed Pearce/Stockley. We still had most of the play and made progress without creating too many clear cut chances. Thought the team did pretty well overall even though it feels like 2 points dropped. I expect a big win in April at the Valley against this side.
Missed Stockley there. Really needed someone up front to give us a real aerial threat - or just put his foot through the ball. I think we'd also have looked more solid against their set pieces with him helping the defence.
Bit disappointed with Gilbey. I'm not saying he had a bad game, but didn't seem to be pulling the strings like he has recently. Tired?
A little dramatic Dazzler, admittedly not great but I don’t think as bad as you suggest.
Nah but it was a 'scrappy game, a scrappy performance, thrown away 2 points'
Really not pleased to see Jackson putting players in who looked shattered from the off.
The same players who were 2 up and cruising. I must've watched a different game to you because everyone was on it from Kick off.
The problem is Charlton fans who go from saying we will get relegated to we have a great chance of top six with one guy saying get on top 2.
Charlton fans can't help themselves with hyperbole.
Whilst we never looked like conceding (outside of the penalty and no one jumping for the second)
We had a few that looked tired and leggy almost as soon as the penalty went in. They kept at it, but weren't sharp enough and we were often wasteful with the ball as a result. Our main issue now is how we fill the positions where we are lacking. Gunter had a very poor game and can't be trusted as stand in for Pearce.
Lee looks like he could do with a rest, despite the fact he's class he was seemingly struggling a bit fairly early to make those sprints we know he can. Davison also looked more lethargic than normal, as did Purrington.
Watching tonight it made me think what a difference it would make if we had recruited around the system we are now using. I know we've got players injured but it is quite striking how we've moved from one quite specific system to another in a very short space of time.
In doing so we played at various times with: a right back at (mid) centre half, a central midfielder at (right) centre half, a left back at (left) centre half, two different right wingers at right wing back, a left winger at left wing back and two forwards who primarily want to be ball to feet.
The system is working well in spite of the players available - if only we'd planned this properly!
The players look tired and the referee gave them pretty much everything which we played up to by not being smart about how we challenged for the ball.
In the first 25 minutes they were absolutely on a plate but then the quick penalty and the directness they showed to go after our makeshift central defence with long balls ground us down in the end. A really good side would have put them away 3 or 4 nil tonight. Whether it's the squad not quite fitting the system or the accumulation of injuries, we couldn't do that.
Referee was a shocker. Blowing the final whistle just as someone's shooting on goal is very bad refereeing, especially when there are ten seconds left to play. Their pen should have been a free kick to us. Stockton grabbed Gunter's shirt and pushed him in to the box, and engineered his dive to the ground. Gunter was a little weak and naïve to allow it to happen though. But he isn't a centre back, so I don't get all the vilification. Jackson didn't mention the ref in his post match, which is another example how different he is from Bowyer.
We started really well, and when we were two up I thought we'd win comfortably (4-0?), but the penalty disrupted us more than it should have. After that we lost a bit of focus and looked tied. Nonetheless we totally dominated the second half, but fair play to Fleetwood, they defended in numbers and we weren't able to break them down. Dobson was excellent again, except for one misplaced pass. A few weeks back, at 2-2, we'd have been the one's with our backs to the wall defending the draw, so let's no get to despondent, eh.
Let's hope we can raise a team for the Shrewsbury match. Am I right in thinking Dobson's suspended after that yellow? It looked like it, from his reaction to the card.
A little dramatic Dazzler, admittedly not great but I don’t think as bad as you suggest.
Nah but it was a 'scrappy game, a scrappy performance, thrown away 2 points'
Really not pleased to see Jackson putting players in who looked shattered from the off.
The same players who were 2 up and cruising. I must've watched a different game to you because everyone was on it from Kick off.
The problem is Charlton fans who go from saying we will get relegated to we have a great chance of top six with one guy saying get on top 2.
Charlton fans can't help themselves with hyperbole.
Whilst we never looked like conceding (outside of the penalty and no one jumping for the second)
We had a few that looked tired and leggy almost as soon as the penalty went in. They kept at it, but weren't sharp enough and we were often wasteful with the ball as a result. Our main issue now is how we fill the positions where we are lacking. Gunter had a very poor game and can't be trusted as stand in for Pearce.
Lee looks like he could do with a rest, despite the fact he's class he was seemingly struggling a bit fairly early to make those sprints we know he can. Davison also looked more lethargic than normal, as did Purrington.
It’s just where we are unfortunately. I think everyone again gave their all. As much as it could’ve done with freshening up tonight, the only player you could argue might have warranted a start was CBT, but then you’d be sacrificing DJ who had a good game on Saturday and I don’t think you change a winning team unless forced. Lee is a good example. The only other real option there was Morgan. That wouldn’t have worked. I feel your frustration, but these results happen.
Someone said to me at full time we’ve got to remember we’re not the finished article. We have a good starting XI, but no real depth of quality. That plus the amount of running they’ve done for Jackson since he started means we had to have a night like tonight.
We can't be playing Gunter at centre half anymore, I thought we learnt that lesson last season.
It was a weird sort of game, Morecambe offered next to nothing and we dominated for large parts, but we looked sloppy and tired throughout. It's two points dropped. Onto the next.
Not like we could really put anyone else there is it?
Deji Elerewe
But then if he's shown to be iffy in training when dealing with a physical striker, then Stockton would have ended his career.
A lot of assumptions there which are likely to be 99% wrong. But the alternative was to play Gunter who gave away a pen.
More square pegs in round holes. Just like Bowyer before him. Jackson had better learn quick or Sandgaard might be correct in wanting to look elsewhere for a manager.
I thought we looked tired, which is no surprise given the effort on Saturday and we're missing Stockley, Lavelle, Pearce, Inniss, Leko, Matthews, Souare.
In an ideal world we could've probably done with rotating 2-3 players tonight if we had more options. But at least we didn't lose. Win saturday and we'd have had a good week.
Oh and the ref was shit!
Spot on for me. Started well but after we scored just didn’t have the zip in our play and caught them cold for our second. So frustrating to concede a pen pretty much straight after, and I thought Gunter got turned too easily.
We just lacked that bit of quality in the final third and were a bit slow to get the ball up the pitch. Great ball from Jayisemi for Washington and if he had got his shot away rather than the block that might have been that.
Got done on a set piece but I admired how we tried to push on after they equalised. Decent attacking subs by Jackson as well. We looked the more likely to score after they equalised, but they packed the area well at the end and you could see the likes of Elliott Lee twisting and turning to try and find space, but it was never gonna happen.
Pleased we didn’t lose and we remain unbeaten and continue to work hard. Agree with Rich Cawley’s tweet about fatigue and players out. Think Stockley would’ve been a good option tonight up top to rough their Centre Backs up. Would’ve given us that presence up top.
They’ll get their rest in and be ready for Shrewsbury, I’ll get home to Charlton at about 4am when the coach drops us off and the lack of leg room would’ve given me deep vein thrombosis. We go again
Referee was a shocker. Blowing the final whistle just as someone's shooting on goal is very bad refereeing, especially when there are ten seconds left to play. Their pen should have been a free kick to us. Stockton grabbed Gunter's shirt and pushed him in to the box, and engineered his dive to the ground. Gunter was a little weak and naïve to allow it to happen though. But he isn't a centre back, so I don't get all the vilification. Jackson didn't mention the ref in his post match, which is another example how different he is from Bowyer.
We started really well, and when we were two up I thought we'd win comfortably (4-0?), but the penalty disrupted us more than it should have. After that we lost a bit of focus and looked tied. Nonetheless we totally dominated the second half, but fair play to Fleetwood, they defended in numbers and we weren't able to break them down. Dobson was excellent again, except for one misplaced pass. A few weeks back, at 2-2, we'd have been the one's with our backs to the wall defending the draw, so let's no get to despondent, eh.
Let's hope we can raise a team for the Shrewsbury match. Am I right in thinking Dobson's suspended after that yellow? It looked like it, from his reaction to the card.
It's sort of an indication as to how far things have improved that, if this is correct, it's a worry. Also a lesson not to write players off without giving them time. Kirk being another who needs a proper chance, maybe.
Clare and Dobson have proved themselves to be valuable additions to the squad, but they've both needed time and opportunity.
Davison doesn’t have a shot on him which is unfortunate for a striker
I really don't know how he has survived this long at the club. Poor old Schwartz was hammered on here for doing much the same thing. But because Davison is "one of our own" we must stick by him & play him every week. Look at the difference between Davison & Stockton. One caused our defense all sorts of problems & the other might as well have not been on the pitch
I said it back in July & I'll say it again. Our recruitment in the summer in relation to our strikers was more than woeful. Didnt replace last seasons top goalscorer & then let our 4th striker leave after the transfer deadline. This evening we were all banking on a rookie (Burstow) to save our bacon.
I struggle to see how Kirk fits into any position, with this formation Jacko has got us playing well in.
We looked sloppy and tired towards the end, following big shift Saturday.
Meh. But, I guess if you can’t win the game, don’t lose it.
Given that Kirk apparently can't dribble, cross, tackle or shoot it is hard to see what formation would suit him. Maybe goalhanger in the playground (I used to play there)
Agreed
It's not as if he has NO working left foot, he's an attacking midfielder, not a no nonsense defender.
Even if he just occasionally headed for the byline, it would at least keep the defenders guessing, whereas now he's completely predictable.
We can't be playing Gunter at centre half anymore, I thought we learnt that lesson last season.
It was a weird sort of game, Morecambe offered next to nothing and we dominated for large parts, but we looked sloppy and tired throughout. It's two points dropped. Onto the next.
Not like we could really put anyone else there is it?
Deji Elerewe
But then if he's shown to be iffy in training when dealing with a physical striker, then Stockton would have ended his career.
A lot of assumptions there which are likely to be 99% wrong. But the alternative was to play Gunter who gave away a pen.
More square pegs in round holes. Just like Bowyer before him. Jackson had better learn quick or Sandgaard might be correct in wanting to look elsewhere for a manager.
PLAY A CENTRE HALF AT CENTRE HALF
SHOUTING DOESNT MAKE WHAT YOURE SAYING ANY MORE CREDIBLE.
And we know you're not a stats man - Mr "Robert Lee only scored one goal at The Valley - so probably best you stop quoting made up numbers mate!
Comments
For once can we try not to find a scapegoat and be pleased we have 14 points from 18 under JJ despite being short on players in vital positions.
Gutted we didn't get the win from 2-0 up but we knew we were trying to cover up the lack of a 1st team CB and a 1st team striker.
They were bang average but Stockton is lively.
Davison looked like a decent replacement earlier in the season but has not offered any threat the last few games. I'm not sure what kind of striker he is. He's not a target man, a poacher, he's not technical, he doesn't play on the half-turn... I think he's still got to figure that question out himself.
Gunter has earned any criticism he gets. A few decent games don't make up for his record. He seems to switch on when he's about to go away for Wales and switch off when he gets back. I have no sympathy for the bloke.
I didn't think Kirk did anything wrong when he came on. He's not the type of winger to take on his man and skin him. He picks out a pass and gets into good positions. But when the oppo are sitting that deep, there's not much point.
I thought we were a little too patient at the end if anything. Sideways, sideways, back... Just buy yourself have a yard and whip it in, or have a shot.
It was a typical crappy league one away day where your technique goes to pieces, nothing really comes off and the ref is complete shite. As someone else said, the draw would feel a lot better if it wasn't for Adkins poor start.
A word on the penalty, looked a bit soft to me but it was poor defending from Gunter. If Elerewe gave that pen away we'd saying it shows his youth/inexperience, so i expect much better from Gunter.
Not quite sure why Kirk is getting so much stick, played for 10 minutes and although it was a bit frustrating not taking the full back on, he didn't do too badly imo.
Really not pleased to see Jackson putting players in who looked shattered from the off.
Mac
Gunter/Clare Elerewe Famewo Purrington
DJ Dobson Gilbey Lee
Washington Leko
Gunter/Clare and Famewo can help Elerewe out and Famewo would be more central to deal with a big number 9. Plenty of movement all over the pitch.
We need forwards who can bury 2/3 chances to give us breathing space against teams like Morecambe.
Wtf are you on about?
The same players who were 2 up and cruising. I must've watched a different game to you because everyone was on it from Kick off.
The problem is Charlton fans who go from saying we will get relegated to we have a great chance of top six with one guy saying get on top 2.
Charlton fans can't help themselves with hyperbole.
My major gripe though would be the drummer's recent decision to stray away from our classic chants when we win a corner. Saturday and this eve the old school response to a Charlton corner was forgotten.
Bit disappointed with Gilbey. I'm not saying he had a bad game, but didn't seem to be pulling the strings like he has recently. Tired?
Well done to Sean Clare who was outstanding.
We had a few that looked tired and leggy almost as soon as the penalty went in. They kept at it, but weren't sharp enough and we were often wasteful with the ball as a result. Our main issue now is how we fill the positions where we are lacking. Gunter had a very poor game and can't be trusted as stand in for Pearce.
Lee looks like he could do with a rest, despite the fact he's class he was seemingly struggling a bit fairly early to make those sprints we know he can. Davison also looked more lethargic than normal, as did Purrington.
In doing so we played at various times with: a right back at (mid) centre half, a central midfielder at (right) centre half, a left back at (left) centre half, two different right wingers at right wing back, a left winger at left wing back and two forwards who primarily want to be ball to feet.
The system is working well in spite of the players available - if only we'd planned this properly!
The players look tired and the referee gave them pretty much everything which we played up to by not being smart about how we challenged for the ball.
In the first 25 minutes they were absolutely on a plate but then the quick penalty and the directness they showed to go after our makeshift central defence with long balls ground us down in the end. A really good side would have put them away 3 or 4 nil tonight. Whether it's the squad not quite fitting the system or the accumulation of injuries, we couldn't do that.
We started really well, and when we were two up I thought we'd win comfortably (4-0?), but the penalty disrupted us more than it should have. After that we lost a bit of focus and looked tied. Nonetheless we totally dominated the second half, but fair play to Fleetwood, they defended in numbers and we weren't able to break them down. Dobson was excellent again, except for one misplaced pass.
A few weeks back, at 2-2, we'd have been the one's with our backs to the wall defending the draw, so let's no get to despondent, eh.
Let's hope we can raise a team for the Shrewsbury match. Am I right in thinking Dobson's suspended after that yellow? It looked like it, from his reaction to the card.
More square pegs in round holes. Just like Bowyer before him. Jackson had better learn quick or Sandgaard might be correct in wanting to look elsewhere for a manager.
PLAY A CENTRE HALF AT CENTRE HALF
Clare and Dobson have proved themselves to be valuable additions to the squad, but they've both needed time and opportunity.
I said it back in July & I'll say it again. Our recruitment in the summer in relation to our strikers was more than woeful. Didnt replace last seasons top goalscorer & then let our 4th striker leave after the transfer deadline. This evening we were all banking on a rookie (Burstow) to save our bacon.
Just not good enough.
It's not as if he has NO working left foot, he's an attacking midfielder, not a no nonsense defender.
Even if he just occasionally headed for the byline, it would at least keep the defenders guessing, whereas now he's completely predictable.
And we know you're not a stats man - Mr "Robert Lee only scored one goal at The Valley - so probably best you stop quoting made up numbers mate!