No Vaccination Novak Djokovic

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

shine166 said:

Kinda thing I think, when people on the covid thread lecture others about jabs. 

Can you pass obesity on through close contact, creating an exponential chain that can ultimately affect someone who is elderly, immuno-compromised or otherwise vulnerable, possibly leading to their hospitalisation and/or death? Is Nolan using his influence as a radio presenter, a famously non-sight based medium, to throw doubt on the legitimacy of healthy eating and encourage others to eat several pounds of lard a day through that influence? It doesn't matter if Novak can boy off Covid with the power of positive thinking and being super fit. What matters is his words and his belief that the fact he's good at hitting things with other things makes him suitable to dish out his widely-reported opinions on medical matters despite them contradicting what actual scientists and doctors say. Obesity is a problem nationally that will put strain on the NHS, but these two things aren't comparable. Nolan's obesity affects him, Novak's idiocy will influence someone under-informed and easily led and cause harm to others.

No, but it is a behavioral trait that a sizeable chunk (no pun intended) of children of overweight/fat/obese people learn/take from their parents.

Genetics are also a factor, but witnessed behaviors take some undoing.

Sure, I agree with that, but learned behaviours are something that take a lot of time to set in and time to undo. You don't become obese through contact with the obese. People can't hide or be unaware of their obesity and then pass it on to you through close contact. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in this country and the rest of the world to encourage healthy eating, but Novak isn't going to suddenly become obese because he sat in a room with Nolan. Nolan however very much could have caught Covid if he'd been sat in that same room with Novak in December, because the bloke was apparently wandering round handing it out to anyone he could find. Nolan could then have inadvertently passed it on to any number of people and the chain could have stopped with him or spread to many, many more including someone vulnerable. The two things aren't at all comparable in terms of how they spread and how they can be combated.

shine166 said:

PrincessFiona said:

shine166 said:

PrincessFiona said:

shine166 said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

shine166 said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

shine166 said:

Kinda thing I think, when people on the covid thread lecture others about jabs. 

All the anti-vaxxers are international sportsmen apparently and immune to viruses.

Not, but I'm sure a lot of the people giving him (and others) grief are fat fucks with diabetes and a drinking problem. 

What a classy argument. 

Classy or not, it's a fact unfortunately.

The overweight guy may have other health i but can others catch it from him?

No, but they are far more likely to be seriously ill. It's not trendy to dig out someone's weight though, can't upset people for physical choices theyve made. 

Whilst I don't agree with it when it can be prevented (caveat it could be partially as a result of other health conditions), is it another example of personal choice?  But other people can't catch it from you (and then pass it on further) causing illness, potentially serious, or even death. If there was a vaccine to prevent it, many would take it

You can generally avoid obesity by eating normally. You can't avoid covid by being jabbed. 

When it comes to the covid jab a number of those who died of covid would still be here if they'd had the jab. 

Public health initiatives are about society as a whole which has to take into account numerous factors and not assume everyone is super fit or healthy.

I spent time when I worked in the NHS working on a vascular ward and came across many people with diabetes and drink problems - the more I spoke to the patients the less judgemental I became about their health issues. It was much easier to judge from a position of ignorance. 

I believe an effective vaccine program will ultimately save lives but understand there is a sizable minority who don't agree.

Gribbo said:

shine166 said:

For the record, since covid I stopped smoking and drinking, lost 2 1/2 stone, took up running cab fares. 

🤣🤣

cfgs said:

Reports that he has now been arrested in Australia.

Was just about to ask about the source of this and if there was any update, then heard it on the news. Looks possible since he hasn't been seen since the decision

https://twitter.com/russellcfuller/status/1480474667487956992?s=20

PrincessFiona said:

cfgs said:

Reports that he has now been arrested in Australia.

Was just about to ask about the source of this and if there was any update, then heard it on the news. Looks possible since he hasn't been seen since the decision

I don't know what news channel told you this, but based on this from Oz, it looks to me like a typical Balkan-generated rumour. Apart from anything else, what would be the basis for him being "arrested"? What new crime would he be suspected of?

https://twitter.com/cait__kelly/status/1480470542591217667?s=20

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

shine166 said:

Kinda thing I think, when people on the covid thread lecture others about jabs. 

Can you pass obesity on through close contact, creating an exponential chain that can ultimately affect someone who is elderly, immuno-compromised or otherwise vulnerable, possibly leading to their hospitalisation and/or death? Is Nolan using his influence as a radio presenter, a famously non-sight based medium, to throw doubt on the legitimacy of healthy eating and encourage others to eat several pounds of lard a day through that influence? It doesn't matter if Novak can boy off Covid with the power of positive thinking and being super fit. What matters is his words and his belief that the fact he's good at hitting things with other things makes him suitable to dish out his widely-reported opinions on medical matters despite them contradicting what actual scientists and doctors say. Obesity is a problem nationally that will put strain on the NHS, but these two things aren't comparable. Nolan's obesity affects him, Novak's idiocy will influence someone under-informed and easily led and cause harm to others.

No, but it is a behavioral trait that a sizeable chunk (no pun intended) of children of overweight/fat/obese people learn/take from their parents.

Genetics are also a factor, but witnessed behaviors take some undoing.

Sure, I agree with that, but learned behaviours are something that take a lot of time to set in and time to undo. You don't become obese through contact with the obese. People can't hide or be unaware of their obesity and then pass it on to you through close contact. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in this country and the rest of the world to encourage healthy eating, but Novak isn't going to suddenly become obese because he sat in a room with Nolan. Nolan however very much could have caught Covid if he'd been sat in that same room with Novak in December, because the bloke was apparently wandering round handing it out to anyone he could find. Nolan could then have inadvertently passed it on to any number of people and the chain could have stopped with him or spread to many, many more including someone vulnerable. The two things aren't at all comparable in terms of how they spread and how they can be combated.

I think we can agree that both are an avoidable drain on NHS resources. Also, in both instances, those invloved could do with looking at themselves and doing/being better.

Sure, as I've said there's a lot more to be done with education and support related to obesity, but regardless the comparison above is dangerous as it tries to boil down the argument to just personal choice with the implication that you need to get your own house in order first. The issue with that is this pandemic isn't just an inward-facing issue. The choices we make, and what we do and fail to do affects others immediately and exponentially across to people we don't know and might not even live in the same country as, and it happens suddenly and unfortuantely sometimes lethally. With Covid and vaccinations you need to get yourself sorted out while thinking about the people around you actively and regularly. It's tiring and shitty and miserable but it's the right thing to do. There's aspects that are similar but I just think that the comparison being made above skips over the most significant difference and that's really the core part of the issue with Novak. (Worth noting at this point Shine that I'm not directing all this at you but at the Novaks of the world, I'm sure you take all the proper precautions to protect others)

PrincessFiona said:

cfgs said:

Reports that he has now been arrested in Australia.

Was just about to ask about the source of this and if there was any update, then heard it on the news. Looks possible since he hasn't been seen since the decision

No decision made by Australian Govt. My guess is that they will check the bona fides of his Covid test with Serbian authorities, before assessing next step.

Garrymanilow said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

shine166 said:

Kinda thing I think, when people on the covid thread lecture others about jabs. 

Can you pass obesity on through close contact, creating an exponential chain that can ultimately affect someone who is elderly, immuno-compromised or otherwise vulnerable, possibly leading to their hospitalisation and/or death? Is Nolan using his influence as a radio presenter, a famously non-sight based medium, to throw doubt on the legitimacy of healthy eating and encourage others to eat several pounds of lard a day through that influence? It doesn't matter if Novak can boy off Covid with the power of positive thinking and being super fit. What matters is his words and his belief that the fact he's good at hitting things with other things makes him suitable to dish out his widely-reported opinions on medical matters despite them contradicting what actual scientists and doctors say. Obesity is a problem nationally that will put strain on the NHS, but these two things aren't comparable. Nolan's obesity affects him, Novak's idiocy will influence someone under-informed and easily led and cause harm to others.

No, but it is a behavioral trait that a sizeable chunk (no pun intended) of children of overweight/fat/obese people learn/take from their parents.

Genetics are also a factor, but witnessed behaviors take some undoing.

Sure, I agree with that, but learned behaviours are something that take a lot of time to set in and time to undo. You don't become obese through contact with the obese. People can't hide or be unaware of their obesity and then pass it on to you through close contact. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in this country and the rest of the world to encourage healthy eating, but Novak isn't going to suddenly become obese because he sat in a room with Nolan. Nolan however very much could have caught Covid if he'd been sat in that same room with Novak in December, because the bloke was apparently wandering round handing it out to anyone he could find. Nolan could then have inadvertently passed it on to any number of people and the chain could have stopped with him or spread to many, many more including someone vulnerable. The two things aren't at all comparable in terms of how they spread and how they can be combated.

I think we can agree that both are an avoidable drain on NHS resources. Also, in both instances, those invloved could do with looking at themselves and doing/being better.

Sure, as I've said there's a lot more to be done with education and support related to obesity, but regardless the comparison above is dangerous as it tries to boil down the argument to just personal choice with the implication that you need to get your own house in order first. The issue with that is this pandemic isn't just an inward-facing issue. The choices we make, and what we do and fail to do affects others immediately and exponentially across to people we don't know and might not even live in the same country as, and it happens suddenly and unfortuantely sometimes lethally. With Covid and vaccinations you need to get yourself sorted out while thinking about the people around you actively and regularly. It's tiring and shitty and miserable but it's the right thing to do. There's aspects that are similar but I just think that the comparison being made above skips over the most significant difference and that's really the core part of the issue with Novak. (Worth noting at this point Shine that I'm not directing all this at you but at the Novaks of the world, I'm sure you take all the proper precautions to protect others)

Vaccination is a public health initiative which you either support or you don't. It's designed to meet the needs of society as a whole and not just international tennis stars.

I'm not sure why obesity has been introduced into the argument?

Fortunately most tennis players have got vaccinated and don't share some of Novak's more bizarre beliefs.

Everyone is entitled to treatment in the NHS and ultimately I'm sure we all want to avoid unnecessary admissions.

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Garrymanilow said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

shine166 said:

Kinda thing I think, when people on the covid thread lecture others about jabs. 

Can you pass obesity on through close contact, creating an exponential chain that can ultimately affect someone who is elderly, immuno-compromised or otherwise vulnerable, possibly leading to their hospitalisation and/or death? Is Nolan using his influence as a radio presenter, a famously non-sight based medium, to throw doubt on the legitimacy of healthy eating and encourage others to eat several pounds of lard a day through that influence? It doesn't matter if Novak can boy off Covid with the power of positive thinking and being super fit. What matters is his words and his belief that the fact he's good at hitting things with other things makes him suitable to dish out his widely-reported opinions on medical matters despite them contradicting what actual scientists and doctors say. Obesity is a problem nationally that will put strain on the NHS, but these two things aren't comparable. Nolan's obesity affects him, Novak's idiocy will influence someone under-informed and easily led and cause harm to others.

No, but it is a behavioral trait that a sizeable chunk (no pun intended) of children of overweight/fat/obese people learn/take from their parents.

Genetics are also a factor, but witnessed behaviors take some undoing.

Sure, I agree with that, but learned behaviours are something that take a lot of time to set in and time to undo. You don't become obese through contact with the obese. People can't hide or be unaware of their obesity and then pass it on to you through close contact. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in this country and the rest of the world to encourage healthy eating, but Novak isn't going to suddenly become obese because he sat in a room with Nolan. Nolan however very much could have caught Covid if he'd been sat in that same room with Novak in December, because the bloke was apparently wandering round handing it out to anyone he could find. Nolan could then have inadvertently passed it on to any number of people and the chain could have stopped with him or spread to many, many more including someone vulnerable. The two things aren't at all comparable in terms of how they spread and how they can be combated.

I think we can agree that both are an avoidable drain on NHS resources. Also, in both instances, those invloved could do with looking at themselves and doing/being better.

Sure, as I've said there's a lot more to be done with education and support related to obesity, but regardless the comparison above is dangerous as it tries to boil down the argument to just personal choice with the implication that you need to get your own house in order first. The issue with that is this pandemic isn't just an inward-facing issue. The choices we make, and what we do and fail to do affects others immediately and exponentially across to people we don't know and might not even live in the same country as, and it happens suddenly and unfortuantely sometimes lethally. With Covid and vaccinations you need to get yourself sorted out while thinking about the people around you actively and regularly. It's tiring and shitty and miserable but it's the right thing to do. There's aspects that are similar but I just think that the comparison being made above skips over the most significant difference and that's really the core part of the issue with Novak. (Worth noting at this point Shine that I'm not directing all this at you but at the Novaks of the world, I'm sure you take all the proper precautions to protect others)

Vaccination is a public health initiative which you either support or you don't. It's designed to meet the needs of society as a whole and not just international tennis stars.

I'm not sure why obesity has been introduced into the argument?

Fortunately most tennis players have got vaccinated and don't share some of Novak's more bizarre beliefs.

Everyone is entitled to treatment in the NHS and ultimately I'm sure we all want to avoid unnecessary admissions.

To diminish the reach of Nolan's criticism of Novak by pointing out that he could also negatively affect the NHS despite that not being a suitable comparison. Standard online misinformation stuff. Though to be fair, the whole 'you can hardly talk' argument has been around for donkey's years, it's just delivered more easily in meme format now

Garrymanilow said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Garrymanilow said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Garrymanilow said:

shine166 said:

Kinda thing I think, when people on the covid thread lecture others about jabs. 

Can you pass obesity on through close contact, creating an exponential chain that can ultimately affect someone who is elderly, immuno-compromised or otherwise vulnerable, possibly leading to their hospitalisation and/or death? Is Nolan using his influence as a radio presenter, a famously non-sight based medium, to throw doubt on the legitimacy of healthy eating and encourage others to eat several pounds of lard a day through that influence? It doesn't matter if Novak can boy off Covid with the power of positive thinking and being super fit. What matters is his words and his belief that the fact he's good at hitting things with other things makes him suitable to dish out his widely-reported opinions on medical matters despite them contradicting what actual scientists and doctors say. Obesity is a problem nationally that will put strain on the NHS, but these two things aren't comparable. Nolan's obesity affects him, Novak's idiocy will influence someone under-informed and easily led and cause harm to others.

No, but it is a behavioral trait that a sizeable chunk (no pun intended) of children of overweight/fat/obese people learn/take from their parents.

Genetics are also a factor, but witnessed behaviors take some undoing.

Sure, I agree with that, but learned behaviours are something that take a lot of time to set in and time to undo. You don't become obese through contact with the obese. People can't hide or be unaware of their obesity and then pass it on to you through close contact. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in this country and the rest of the world to encourage healthy eating, but Novak isn't going to suddenly become obese because he sat in a room with Nolan. Nolan however very much could have caught Covid if he'd been sat in that same room with Novak in December, because the bloke was apparently wandering round handing it out to anyone he could find. Nolan could then have inadvertently passed it on to any number of people and the chain could have stopped with him or spread to many, many more including someone vulnerable. The two things aren't at all comparable in terms of how they spread and how they can be combated.

I think we can agree that both are an avoidable drain on NHS resources. Also, in both instances, those invloved could do with looking at themselves and doing/being better.

Sure, as I've said there's a lot more to be done with education and support related to obesity, but regardless the comparison above is dangerous as it tries to boil down the argument to just personal choice with the implication that you need to get your own house in order first. The issue with that is this pandemic isn't just an inward-facing issue. The choices we make, and what we do and fail to do affects others immediately and exponentially across to people we don't know and might not even live in the same country as, and it happens suddenly and unfortuantely sometimes lethally. With Covid and vaccinations you need to get yourself sorted out while thinking about the people around you actively and regularly. It's tiring and shitty and miserable but it's the right thing to do. There's aspects that are similar but I just think that the comparison being made above skips over the most significant difference and that's really the core part of the issue with Novak. (Worth noting at this point Shine that I'm not directing all this at you but at the Novaks of the world, I'm sure you take all the proper precautions to protect others)

Vaccination is a public health initiative which you either support or you don't. It's designed to meet the needs of society as a whole and not just international tennis stars.

I'm not sure why obesity has been introduced into the argument?

Fortunately most tennis players have got vaccinated and don't share some of Novak's more bizarre beliefs.

Everyone is entitled to treatment in the NHS and ultimately I'm sure we all want to avoid unnecessary admissions.

To diminish the reach of Nolan's criticism of Novak by pointing out that he could also negatively affect the NHS despite that not being a suitable comparison. Standard online misinformation stuff. Though to be fair, the whole 'you can hardly talk' argument has been around for donkey's years, it's just delivered more easily in meme format now

The trouble is since the introduction of Twitter and memes debate has become increasingly trite - serious debate is just dying out.

What worries me is the longer this drags on the more credence is given to Novak's views. It's become even more surreal with Farage backing him.

MuttleyCAFC said:

His views are dangerous and he influences the views of a significant amount of others. Australia should just kick him out for that reason alone.

All Australia needs to do is process his visa application- it's either valid or it isn't.

PrincessFiona said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

His views are dangerous and he influences the views of a significant amount of others. Australia should just kick him out for that reason alone.

All Australia needs to do is process his visa application- it's either valid or it isn't.

It is more complex that that; not just valid/not valid 

If it's valid he'll stay and if it's not valid they'll boot him out. What other options are there?

Will we ever get the full story behind why it's proving so difficult to process?

PrincessFiona said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

PrincessFiona said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

His views are dangerous and he influences the views of a significant amount of others. Australia should just kick him out for that reason alone.

All Australia needs to do is process his visa application- it's either valid or it isn't.

It is more complex that that; not just valid/not valid 

If it's valid he'll stay and if it's not valid they'll boot him out. What other options are there?

Will we ever get the full story behind why it's proving so difficult to process?

We have various additional options including non-conducive for the public good that it is undesirable to admit the person to the UK, based on their character, conduct, or associations because they pose a threat to UK society. This applies to conduct both in the UK and overseas

There are others, but Australia will have similar

I'm not a great fan of Novak but it does feel to me that the Australian authorities may have screwed up. I supose we won't know until we get the full story assuming we ever do?

PrincessFiona said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

PrincessFiona said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

PrincessFiona said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

His views are dangerous and he influences the views of a significant amount of others. Australia should just kick him out for that reason alone.

All Australia needs to do is process his visa application- it's either valid or it isn't.

It is more complex that that; not just valid/not valid 

If it's valid he'll stay and if it's not valid they'll boot him out. What other options are there?

Will we ever get the full story behind why it's proving so difficult to process?

We have various additional options including non-conducive for the public good that it is undesirable to admit the person to the UK, based on their character, conduct, or associations because they pose a threat to UK society. This applies to conduct both in the UK and overseas

There are others, but Australia will have similar

I'm not a great fan of Novak but it does feel to me that the Australian authorities may have screwed up. I supose we won't know until we get the full story assuming we ever do?

Yes, but from what is being reported (not the whole story I realise) I can't see how he can qualify. The deadline was 10 Dec (not 11) before the 16th. There are going to be some pretty pissed of others players if he is able to play

There does seem to be a lot of unanswered questions - I can't make sense of it.