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No Vaccination Novak Djokovic
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Well that does not seem to be the majority view of their citizens, probably because Novax was initially able to claim that he thought he was following the rules. One issue most of us non-oz people tend to neglect is the wide legislative power of individual States, in this case Victoria. Novax was initially able to claim effectively that he had permission from Victoria. Then there is Tennis Australia. Due to their incompetence a Czech female was also belatedly slung out, but she just shrugged and left, and nobody gives a monkeys about her, do they?Stu_of_Kunming said:e
Think the Aus government look pretty good from what I’ve seen, took a reasonable stance and stuck with it.PragueAddick said:Hmm, I hope I’m right that the strategy the Oz govt took in court has been agreed with Serbia- that they would not shame the country by going hard on the dodgy PCR test and the dodgy doctor - because the first thing I heard in reaction was journo from the Torygraph highlighting the weakness of the evidence, and thus implying that its a stitch-up.As I think we all agree, none of the main actors come out of this with any credit, though the top players like Nadal and Murray do, IMO, for their measured but principled stance.1 -
If I was in the Australian government, I would be more concerned about what Australian voters felt than what the Serbian government did. I don’t see that The Australian government look particularly bad, there is little else they could have done really.PragueAddick said:Hmm, I hope I’m right that the strategy the Oz govt took in court has been agreed with Serbia- that they would not shame the country by going hard on the dodgy PCR test and the dodgy doctor - because the first thing I heard in reaction was journo from the Torygraph highlighting the weakness of the evidence, and thus implying that its a stitch-up.As I think we all agree, none of the main actors come out of this with any credit, though the top players like Nadal and Murray do, IMO, for their measured but principled stance.1 -
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Of course, they have an election to win. But then why did Hawke say in his evidence that he was *not* questioning the Novax medical submissions when the whole world has seen that dismantled in front of their eyes.Gary Poole said:
If I was in the Australian government, I would be more concerned about what Australian voters felt than what the Serbian government did. I don’t see that The Australian government look particularly bad, there is little else they could have done really.PragueAddick said:Hmm, I hope I’m right that the strategy the Oz govt took in court has been agreed with Serbia- that they would not shame the country by going hard on the dodgy PCR test and the dodgy doctor - because the first thing I heard in reaction was journo from the Torygraph highlighting the weakness of the evidence, and thus implying that its a stitch-up.As I think we all agree, none of the main actors come out of this with any credit, though the top players like Nadal and Murray do, IMO, for their measured but principled stance.Also worth remembering that Oz has a sizeable Serb community, with votes ( Sasa Ilic came from that community).I mean, I really dont care, I’m glad that he has finally been thrown out, but the whole thing has fuelled the global anti-vax movement when that need not have happened if they had been clearer from the start what the rules would be for the tournament.0 -
As a citizen of Melbourne, part of me was thinking that if he won his case, it was a blood nose for the current government, who are on the nose for their handling of covid, with election required by May2020.
The other part was hoping the opposite, because he has become a rallying cry on social media this week for anti-vaxxers and other issues.
I am now glad it has gone the way it has. If he had won, there would be 2 weeks of angst, especially when he played and no doubt the atmosphere when he played would be toxic. Now he has gone it should blow over quickly fingers crossed.3 -
I suspect after taking legal advice, they chose a tac that the felt had the best chance of swift success, knowing that it would be challenged in court. Perhaps going down the medical route might have meant a more protracted process with reports and testimony needed from other parties.3
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Agreed. I don;t think they accepted various things he did but went for the best chance of successGary Poole said:I suspect after taking legal advice, they chose a tac that the felt had the best chance of swift success, knowing that it would be challenged in court. Perhaps going down the medical route might have meant a more protracted process with reports and testimony needed from other parties.0 -
Novak Djokovic the first tennis player in history to be eliminated from a tournament for only missing two shots.
And good riddance to the idiotic narcissist.2 -
Did the random Czech also break the rules? If so, chalk that up as another success for the Aussie Government.PragueAddick said:
Well that does not seem to be the majority view of their citizens, probably because Novax was initially able to claim that he thought he was following the rules. One issue most of us non-oz people tend to neglect is the wide legislative power of individual States, in this case Victoria. Novax was initially able to claim effectively that he had permission from Victoria. Then there is Tennis Australia. Due to their incompetence a Czech female was also belatedly slung out, but she just shrugged and left, and nobody gives a monkeys about her, do they?Stu_of_Kunming said:e
Think the Aus government look pretty good from what I’ve seen, took a reasonable stance and stuck with it.PragueAddick said:Hmm, I hope I’m right that the strategy the Oz govt took in court has been agreed with Serbia- that they would not shame the country by going hard on the dodgy PCR test and the dodgy doctor - because the first thing I heard in reaction was journo from the Torygraph highlighting the weakness of the evidence, and thus implying that its a stitch-up.As I think we all agree, none of the main actors come out of this with any credit, though the top players like Nadal and Murray do, IMO, for their measured but principled stance.
Surely permission from a state cannot override national laws, nor can a poxy sport commission.0 -
"The Czech doubles player Renata Voracova, who was deported from Australia after her visa was cancelled, has spoken of how she “felt like a criminal” and was made to undress by the Australia Border Force during questioning."
WTF was that all about ?
So Drug smugglers and a person who had Covid but had a bad reaction to it so couldn't have the Vaccine ,( she said she wants the vaccine ) are treated the same !
No problem with Governments of countries having rules but the Australian border force need to reply to Renata's accusation.
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It is so sad that those who enjoy tennis, will be watching a major tournament, without one of the world's best ever tennis players, because he has refused to have a vaccine which will make the whole world a safer place.
I hope however, that it makes it clear to the people who refuse to be vaccinated, that you will find it very difficult to travel this year and no matter how much money, power and influence you may have, you are not going to be treated differently from anyone else.2 -
I could not agree with you more on the latter point. And all the head honchos in Tennis Australia should be fired, IMO. I'm simply pointing out that it wasn't as simple as "the Aussies getting tough".Stu_of_Kunming said:
Did the random Czech also break the rules? If so, chalk that up as another success for the Aussie Government.PragueAddick said:
Well that does not seem to be the majority view of their citizens, probably because Novax was initially able to claim that he thought he was following the rules. One issue most of us non-oz people tend to neglect is the wide legislative power of individual States, in this case Victoria. Novax was initially able to claim effectively that he had permission from Victoria. Then there is Tennis Australia. Due to their incompetence a Czech female was also belatedly slung out, but she just shrugged and left, and nobody gives a monkeys about her, do they?Stu_of_Kunming said:e
Think the Aus government look pretty good from what I’ve seen, took a reasonable stance and stuck with it.PragueAddick said:Hmm, I hope I’m right that the strategy the Oz govt took in court has been agreed with Serbia- that they would not shame the country by going hard on the dodgy PCR test and the dodgy doctor - because the first thing I heard in reaction was journo from the Torygraph highlighting the weakness of the evidence, and thus implying that its a stitch-up.As I think we all agree, none of the main actors come out of this with any credit, though the top players like Nadal and Murray do, IMO, for their measured but principled stance.
Surely permission from a state cannot override national laws, nor can a poxy sport commission.
The random Czech understood that she had complied with the rules. Indeed she sailed through immigration and actually played a warm-up game; then, after it all kicked off with Novax they came for her and told her those weren't the rules after all and she had to either quarantine or leave. So she left.Quietly. I assume she was not vaxxed, but she has not been banging on about freedom of choice, nor has the Czech government claimed that Australia has declared war on it. It just delivered a letter of complaint that the whole thing was a bit of a shambles. Which in her case it clearly was.3 -
First I have heard of that, though. Where did you read that?soapboxsam said:"The Czech doubles player Renata Voracova, who was deported from Australia after her visa was cancelled, has spoken of how she “felt like a criminal” and was made to undress by the Australia Border Force during questioning."
WTF was that all about ?
So Drug smugglers and a person who had Covid but had a bad reaction to it so couldn't have the Vaccine ,( she said she wants the vaccine ) are treated the same !
No problem with Governments of countries having rules but the Australian border force need to reply to Renata's accusation.0 -
There was no way the Aussies were going to let him win the appeal. I am not a fan of Macron but I liked what he said about pissing anti vaxers off. They are pissing us off and causing us issues in fighting this virus so whilst I would never advocate forcing them to have the vaccine, pissing them off back is very nice.5
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PragueAddick said:
First I have heard of that, though. Where did you read that?soapboxsam said:"The Czech doubles player Renata Voracova, who was deported from Australia after her visa was cancelled, has spoken of how she “felt like a criminal” and was made to undress by the Australia Border Force during questioning."
WTF was that all about ?
So Drug smugglers and a person who had Covid but had a bad reaction to it so couldn't have the Vaccine ,( she said she wants the vaccine ) are treated the same !
No problem with Governments of countries having rules but the Australian border force need to reply to Renata's accusation.
The Guardian had the story on Thursday 13th and they used quotes from BBC Russian and a Russian Publication called Denik; validity from a Czech publication/media (does she live there) would give this story more substance and transparency.
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The fella over the road from me cuts Novak’s hair during Wimbledon each year. And David Beckham’s (not during Wimbledon though). Thought you’d like to know that.Agree with Muttley’s support for pissing anti-vaxers off. Trouble is we’re too wishy washy these days. You have to hit them where it hurts. In the pocket.1
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Pissing them off can have a positive impact. Some of the weaker ones in resolve may decide it isn't worth holding out when they can't do things others can.1
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73,000 at the last count....hardly sizeable in country of 26 Million.PragueAddick said:Also worth remembering that Oz has a sizeable Serb community, with votes ( Sasa Ilic came from that community).1 -
Point takenTEL said:
73,000 at the last count....hardly sizeable in country of 26 Million.PragueAddick said:Also worth remembering that Oz has a sizeable Serb community, with votes ( Sasa Ilic came from that community).
what is the noise from the Greek community though? Are a lot of them anti vax? Much bigger community, right?
and whats your overall take on how the govt has handled it?0 -
Well I see my romantic idea of Oz-Serb diplomacy has crashed and burned 🤣🤣
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/16/serbias-leaders-hit-out-at-scandalous-treatment-of-novak-djokovic?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Without meaning to sound disrespectful @PragueAddick to Serbia and it’s people, I don’t really think that many people beyond neighbouring countries really care what the Serb government says.
As for the Australian government handling it badly, from where I sit in the UK right now it doesn’t look remotely embarrassing compared to what we have seen from our leaders this week.3 -
The greek community is an odd one....93,000 at the last count....That is of course greek born rather than next generation. However the Greek community shrunk by 6%. A lot of the older generation have migrated back to Greece, taking their Aussie wealth with them and living out a grand lifestyle in their old age...cant blame them.
The Greeks here are amiable mostly, certainly the older generation who were grateful to leave behind poverty and come to a new country and prosper. Pretty much the same with the Italians who make up a larger proportion of around 200,000.
94% of the population are vaccinated, most of the noise about anti vaccination seems to be from what I would term the hippy dippy types. Very much a minority here. Australia after a very late start to vaccination, embraced it very quickly. Being a very competitive nation there was a lot of competition particularly between NSW and Victoria on who could get the most vaccinations. NSW narrowly won that one but the vast majority of vaccines in the early stages made their way into NSW before Victoria. The rest of the country with the exception of Tasmania were a bit slow, but are finally catching up.
WA have been particularly cautious, at the moment they have reported 2 cases and no ICU incidents, however they have been pretty much a closed shop now for two years letting very few people into the state.
The problem here with government is that each state operates completely independently to the Federal Government.
There is little cohesion between local and federal government and between each state.....different rules in different states plus the inevitable competitive nature between each.....they spend as much time points scoring and sniping as they do in governing.
All in all, Id say they handled this particular situation poorly. Its clear that with no credible reason for entering without a vaccination, he should not have even got through immigration. Tennis Australia could only see dollar signs and were prepared to ignore the rules to have the top tennis player attending the biggest tennis event of the year. Victoria weren't entirely innocent either, however the border control is a federal agency and they should have had the final say.
The thing that really gets people's goats is the fact that he had the chance to even take this to court and at such obscene haste.
One of the more pathetic moves during this situation was the requests to move him into accommodation more suitable to his status.....the hotel he was in was as far from being detained in Villawood detention centre as anyone could imagine.
If Novak wants to redeem himself the best thing he could do is highlight the plight of the immigrants fleeing third world countries who have been stuck in detention centres and hotels for years.
All in all, the whole shebang was handled embarrassingly badly by all involved.5 -
This made me laugh....
The president said he was sure Djokovic “would have been treated differently if he hadn’t come from Serbia … If he was from another country, the approach would be completely different. Of course people here are frustrated, 90% are on Novak’s side.”
The player’s father, Srđan, said the episode amounted to “an attempted assassination with 50 bullets to the chest”, while the sports minister, Vanja Udovičić, described it as “nonsense and shame, absurdity and hypocrisy”
Oh well, Novak can relax and take off his bullet proof vest now he is ensconced in his first class suite on the Emirates flight....will be interesting to see if he goes home to Monaco or laps up the adulation in Serbia.
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Serbs referring to his treatment as torture and imprisonment - they have short, selective memories!TEL said:This made me laugh....The president said he was sure Djokovic “would have been treated differently if he hadn’t come from Serbia … If he was from another country, the approach would be completely different. Of course people here are frustrated, 90% are on Novak’s side.”
The player’s father, Srđan, said the episode amounted to “an attempted assassination with 50 bullets to the chest”, while the sports minister, Vanja Udovičić, described it as “nonsense and shame, absurdity and hypocrisy”
Oh well, Novak can relax and take off his bullet proof vest now he is ensconced in his first class suite on the Emirates flight....will be interesting to see if he goes home to Monaco or laps up the adulation in Serbia.
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Next thing you know it'll turn out he had a fucking party in the middle of lockdown. Scum.3
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Exactly.TEL said:This made me laugh....The president said he was sure Djokovic “would have been treated differently if he hadn’t come from Serbia … If he was from another country, the approach would be completely different. Of course people here are frustrated, 90% are on Novak’s side.”
The player’s father, Srđan, said the episode amounted to “an attempted assassination with 50 bullets to the chest”, while the sports minister, Vanja Udovičić, described it as “nonsense and shame, absurdity and hypocrisy”
Oh well, Novak can relax and take off his bullet proof vest now he is ensconced in his first class suite on the Emirates flight....will be interesting to see if he goes home to Monaco or laps up the adulation in Serbia.
I hope no one thinks I have any sympathy for the behaviour of the Serbian government, over this or anything else. I remember having Bosnian Muslim women from Sarajevo in my recruiter biz office in Prague in 1996, telling chilling stories of what they’d escaped from. The trouble is that the anti-vax nonsense in this connected world can spread like wildfire, especially when Putin thinks it fits into his wider shit-stirring programme. To that end I just really wish he’d been barred in the first place and not been given 3 weeks to become one of their icons.7 -
@PragueAddick I certainly didnt get the impression that you had any sympathy with the Serb government at all.
The Serbs certainly do play up like the innocents.....one look at the Serbian Chetniks in WW2 would sober up even the most forgiving of people.
As a young man in the early 80's I was asked to quote for printing a booklet for a Serbian Chetnik organisation in London. I won the quote and received the artwork and being nosey had a read of the content....I returned the artwork and politely said it wasn't something I wanted to be associated with.
However, You cant tar a whole nation with one brush and Im sure there was good and bad in that period of time and the same again in the 90's.1 -
Yes it's exactly the same! Do these people ever think before they speak?TEL said:This made me laugh....The president said he was sure Djokovic “would have been treated differently if he hadn’t come from Serbia … If he was from another country, the approach would be completely different. Of course people here are frustrated, 90% are on Novak’s side.”
The player’s father, Srđan, said the episode amounted to “an attempted assassination with 50 bullets to the chest”, while the sports minister, Vanja Udovičić, described it as “nonsense and shame, absurdity and hypocrisy”
Oh well, Novak can relax and take off his bullet proof vest now he is ensconced in his first class suite on the Emirates flight....will be interesting to see if he goes home to Monaco or laps up the adulation in Serbia.
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I find it interesting that President Vucic is playing the race game, because he has form on this.addick1956 said:
I thought exactly the same . All those poor Muslims, hands toed led away from the women folk of their villages knowing they were going to be shot . And the Serbisn President calls Novax's treatment aPrincessFiona said:
Serbs referring to his treatment as torture and imprisonment - they have short, selective memories!TEL said:This made me laugh....The president said he was sure Djokovic “would have been treated differently if he hadn’t come from Serbia … If he was from another country, the approach would be completely different. Of course people here are frustrated, 90% are on Novak’s side.”
The player’s father, Srđan, said the episode amounted to “an attempted assassination with 50 bullets to the chest”, while the sports minister, Vanja Udovičić, described it as “nonsense and shame, absurdity and hypocrisy”
Oh well, Novak can relax and take off his bullet proof vest now he is ensconced in his first class suite on the Emirates flight....will be interesting to see if he goes home to Monaco or laps up the adulation in Serbia.
scandal !
"for every Serb killed, we will kill 100 Muslims" only a few days after the Srebrenica massacre.
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Found the interview with a former Wimbledon champion, on the BBC just now, quite annoying. Especially when the presenter thanked her for her opinion calling it a "fascinating insight".
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