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Another Shooting In America?
Comments
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It isn’t alone.SELR_addicks said:
Brushing it under the carpet as a 'mental health incident' removes the why and how countries can prevent these atrocities in the future.Huskaris said:
It massively compounds the issue, they aren't mutually exclusive.Henry Irving said:In this case it's not really gun control that's the issue.
The issue is the terrorism and the racist fundamentalist ideology that drives it.
The equivalent person can do a huge amount more damage in America than they can in the UK. The terrorist attacks we have had in London in recent years would have been far worse if we did not have gun control. If that man had been armed with just a knife I would hazard a guess he would not have been able to murder 10 people. So yes, it is also a case of gun control, as well as tackling ideology. If I am getting shot at while I go about my daily business, my concern isn't the ideology of the person doing it, it's the bullets flying at me.
I don't really see the difference between the two, I would say the exact same about the terrorist attacks in London to be clear. Anyone who is willing to go and indiscriminately murder people is deranged in my mind, regardless of why they are doing it.JamesSeed said:
Deranged? Or brainwashed and massively racist? It’s a bit of a cop out to say these people are mentally ill.Huskaris said:The ability of someone who is severely deranged to get hold of serious weaponry is probably the main reason I would never move to America.
I am very, very glad we live in a country where those people don't have access to heavy weaponry.
Far-right propoganda has been left to fester on the internet and on television brainwashing people to be hateful enough to take these actions. But 'my free speech' I suppose.
ALL forms of extremism is being left to fester on the internet.
There needs to be far more monitoring and regulation.It won’t happen 🙄1 -
Yes, of course the British (or at least a few of them) grew rich from slavery. But I don't think there is an particular ignorance of the past, at least any more than general ignorance about almost everything. Now while descendants of Jamaican slaves want reparations, where does that stop? Around half the European population of the 13 colonies of the nascent USA were indentured servants. That is people who did not get paid for their labours. Should their descendants get reparations too? (And I'm sure the Incas would like the western part of South America back as well.)Exiled_Addick said:
Plenty of this still going on in Britain - there’s a huge lack of knowledge of the horrors committed in the name of the Crown during the years of the British empire. We might have banned slavery earlier but not until we’d grown rich from it.cafcfan said:
Like many things, the story of the Boston Tea Party is a nice way of hiding the terrible truth from the good citizens of America. The Tea Party was in 1773. The year before, in a case brought in the English courts, Somerset v Stewart, the Judge ruled that an individual could not be taken from England into enforced bondage. The case involved a slave brought from the colonies to England by his master. The slave owner wanted to take him back. During the case the Judge also said that English Law did not allow slavery. And it would need an Act of Parliament to change that position. (In fact there was an Act in 1807 but it abolished the transatlantic slave trade.)Addickted said:You should have just paid the duties on the tea.
In 1773, the colonists could see the writing on the wall. Ironically, the Land of the Free wanted their freedom in order to continue to enslave others. George Washington's own plantation, Mount Vernon, had 317 slaves.
The Proclamation Line was another important factor. The British did not want the colonists expanding west beyond this line which separated the colonists from many of the Native Americans. This, of course, upset the colonists who wanted to be free to steal the land and resources from others and make their fortunes. (This is why the vast majority of Native Americans fought on the British side. In fact few British fought in this war, it was mainly American loyalists, Native Americans and mercenary Germans - the British had more important concerns - the wars against France and Spain.)
Keeping slaves and western expansion were much more important than a tax on tea! The slimeball, Washington, was known as the "Town Destroyer" by the Iroquois. In fact the largest operation undertaken during the war was to destroy Iroquois villages and burn crops. (Putin must have been taking notes!)
This takes us back to the Declaration of Independence. Which led to the drafting of the Constitution and the subsequent 2nd Amendment of 1791 - the right to keep and bear arms. Something which is, of course, ludicrously outdated.
One feels the USA would be a much nicer, much calmer place if we had not ceded control.1 -
Me too.Huskaris said:
It massively compounds the issue, they aren't mutually exclusive.Henry Irving said:In this case it's not really gun control that's the issue.
The issue is the terrorism and the racist fundamentalist ideology that drives it.
The equivalent person can do a huge amount more damage in America than they can in the UK. The terrorist attacks we have had in London in recent years would have been far worse if we did not have gun control. If that man had been armed with just a knife I would hazard a guess he would not have been able to murder 10 people. So yes, it is also a case of gun control, as well as tackling ideology. If I am getting shot at while I go about my daily business, my concern isn't the ideology of the person doing it, it's the bullets flying at me.
I don't really see the difference between the two, I would say the exact same about the terrorist attacks in London to be clear. Anyone who is willing to go and indiscriminately murder people is deranged in my mind, regardless of why they are doing it.JamesSeed said:
Deranged? Or brainwashed and massively racist? It’s a bit of a cop out to say these people are mentally ill.Huskaris said:The ability of someone who is severely deranged to get hold of serious weaponry is probably the main reason I would never move to America.
I am very, very glad we live in a country where those people don't have access to heavy weaponry.But on your other point, there’s a difference between someone who is genuinely psychotic, hearing voices, schizophrenic who might therefore have reduced culpability etc and someone killing for a cause, like the nazis did and still do, (‘ISIS’ too).How an entire nation, one not to dissimilar to our own, could turn to nazism and end up attempting to exterminate an entire race, is what is so scary.Some people see the Republicans in American taking the first steps in the same direction. The spreading of ‘The Great Replacement Theory’ is a case in point.1 -
And yet another tonight.
1 person shot dead & 4 more injured in a church service in Orange County, California.0 -
The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand.
The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it.
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The American Constitution is based on the English Bill of Rights which included the right to bear arms. Think we moved on from that!cafcfan said:
Like many things, the story of the Boston Tea Party is a nice way of hiding the terrible truth from the good citizens of America. The Tea Party was in 1773. The year before, in a case brought in the English courts, Somerset v Stewart, the Judge ruled that an individual could not be taken from England into enforced bondage. The case involved a slave brought from the colonies to England by his master. The slave owner wanted to take him back. During the case the Judge also said that English Law did not allow slavery. And it would need an Act of Parliament to change that position. (In fact there was an Act in 1807 but it abolished the transatlantic slave trade.)Addickted said:You should have just paid the duties on the tea.
In 1773, the colonists could see the writing on the wall. Ironically, the Land of the Free wanted their freedom in order to continue to enslave others. George Washington's own plantation, Mount Vernon, had 317 slaves.
The Proclamation Line was another important factor. The British did not want the colonists expanding west beyond this line which separated the colonists from many of the Native Americans. This, of course, upset the colonists who wanted to be free to steal the land and resources from others and make their fortunes. (This is why the vast majority of Native Americans fought on the British side. In fact few British fought in this war, it was mainly American loyalists, Native Americans and mercenary Germans - the British had more important concerns - the wars against France and Spain.)
Keeping slaves and western expansion were much more important than a tax on tea! The slimeball, Washington, was known as the "Town Destroyer" by the Iroquois. In fact the largest operation undertaken during the war was to destroy Iroquois villages and burn crops. (Putin must have been taking notes!)
This takes us back to the Declaration of Independence. Which led to the drafting of the Constitution and the subsequent 2nd Amendment of 1791 - the right to keep and bear arms. Something which is, of course, ludicrously outdated.
One feels the USA would be a much nicer, much calmer place if we had not ceded control.0 -
I absolutely agree with the right to bare arms.3
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and continued to grow rich from the slave trade long after we banned it. All those cotton mills in the industrial revolution that catapulted Great britain into being a superpower... the cotton came from african slaves in the deep south.Exiled_Addick said:
Plenty of this still going on in Britain - there’s a huge lack of knowledge of the horrors committed in the name of the Crown during the years of the British empire. We might have banned slavery earlier but not until we’d grown rich from it.cafcfan said:
Like many things, the story of the Boston Tea Party is a nice way of hiding the terrible truth from the good citizens of America. The Tea Party was in 1773. The year before, in a case brought in the English courts, Somerset v Stewart, the Judge ruled that an individual could not be taken from England into enforced bondage. The case involved a slave brought from the colonies to England by his master. The slave owner wanted to take him back. During the case the Judge also said that English Law did not allow slavery. And it would need an Act of Parliament to change that position. (In fact there was an Act in 1807 but it abolished the transatlantic slave trade.)Addickted said:You should have just paid the duties on the tea.
In 1773, the colonists could see the writing on the wall. Ironically, the Land of the Free wanted their freedom in order to continue to enslave others. George Washington's own plantation, Mount Vernon, had 317 slaves.
The Proclamation Line was another important factor. The British did not want the colonists expanding west beyond this line which separated the colonists from many of the Native Americans. This, of course, upset the colonists who wanted to be free to steal the land and resources from others and make their fortunes. (This is why the vast majority of Native Americans fought on the British side. In fact few British fought in this war, it was mainly American loyalists, Native Americans and mercenary Germans - the British had more important concerns - the wars against France and Spain.)
Keeping slaves and western expansion were much more important than a tax on tea! The slimeball, Washington, was known as the "Town Destroyer" by the Iroquois. In fact the largest operation undertaken during the war was to destroy Iroquois villages and burn crops. (Putin must have been taking notes!)
This takes us back to the Declaration of Independence. Which led to the drafting of the Constitution and the subsequent 2nd Amendment of 1791 - the right to keep and bear arms. Something which is, of course, ludicrously outdated.
One feels the USA would be a much nicer, much calmer place if we had not ceded control.2 -
Are these posts just open for anyone to see?Huskaris said:The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand.
The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it.0 -
Yes. Anyone can read anything on 4chan or post anything.cafcnick1992 said:
Are these posts just open for anyone to see?Huskaris said:The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand.
The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it.0 - Sponsored links:
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and anonymous so they can hide behind the defence of ironyJints said:
Yes. Anyone can read anything on 4chan or post anything.cafcnick1992 said:
Are these posts just open for anyone to see?Huskaris said:The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand.
The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it.0 -
yup, not dark web or anything like that either. It's an absolute sewer.cafcnick1992 said:
Are these posts just open for anyone to see?Huskaris said:The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand.
The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it.
Not even usernames like on here so you can tie it back to the same person. There's people on there claiming (in all sincerity) that it was a false flag operation. The live stream the shooter recorded is also all over there.
It's such a bad place for fragile minds and I think a lot more people will be radicalised on there.2 -
I can’t believe you’ve never been on 4chan lol. I occasionally drop in over there to see what insanity is going on there now. It’s definitely got worse imo.cafcnick1992 said:
Are these posts just open for anyone to see?Huskaris said:The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand.
The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it.0 -
Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas.
At least 14 injured and two dead including a teacher.
Edit: now reading that it’s 14 kids that have been killed rather than injure. Horrific if true…0 -
Absolutely horrific. No words.0
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Fucking madness, shooter was 18.0
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Will anything make a politician/president actually risk it all and sort this out?
So backwards.0 -
No words. Those poor kids0
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Horrific, just terrible.0
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I'm going to be flamed for this but .........
Sad as it is nothing can be done until guns are banned in the US. And as the gun lobby is so big over there nothing will change. Its not news any more & doesn't shock me.
If millions of US citizens openly want to own a gun & more importantly see it as a RIGHT then there is no point being shocked when some teenager decides he is going to shoot up a school.
Remember "I dont like Monday's". That was over 40 years ago.9 - Sponsored links:
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Unbelievable. So sad. Those poor families.
I just don't think there's a price that's high enough for America to change.0 -
I’m not sure why you think you will be flamed over that opinion. It’s what the vast majority of people think outside the USgolfaddick said:I'm going to be flamed for this but .........
Sad as it is nothing can be done until guns are banned in the US. And as the gun lobby is so big over there nothing will change. Its not news any more & doesn't shock me.
If millions of US citizens openly want to own a gun & more importantly see it as a RIGHT then there is no point being shocked when some teenager decides he is going to shoot up a school.
Remember "I dont like Monday's". That was over 40 years ago.2 -
It’s literally the only country in the world where this happens so regularly amongst their own citizens.It’s incomprehensible, it really is.4
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Once Sandy Hook passed and America chose guns over children, this was never going to stop.
Their solution is arming teachers, what a backwards country.9 -
It just doesn't make sense why he would attack an elementary school of all places. Attacking a bunch of 4-11 year olds, what a cowardly prick.
That's now 4 mass shootings in ELEVEN DAYS!
There's so much I love about America and my American side of family are always saying to move out there but this is one of the main cons.
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America is a sick and diseased country.
No truly civilised country can allow this to repeatedly happen and yet do NOTHING to stop it.
Innocent kids gunned down again and again and yet the US Government will do absolutely nothing.0 -
Golfie that is an absolute fact mate, I lost faith in something changing after Sandy Hook. The right to bear arms was an inconceivably short sited piece of legislation and one of the worst in American history.golfaddick said:I'm going to be flamed for this but .........
Sad as it is nothing can be done until guns are banned in the US. And as the gun lobby is so big over there nothing will change. Its not news any more & doesn't shock me.
If millions of US citizens openly want to own a gun & more importantly see it as a RIGHT then there is no point being shocked when some teenager decides he is going to shoot up a school.
Remember "I dont like Monday's". That was over 40 years ago.We are at the point of no return, and this has been accepted as the new norm1 -
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Excusing my ignorance, but what are the top few reasons for school shooting in the US?
I can imagine a grudge against school mates and teachers or ex school mates and teachers, but what else and why would an 18 year old, murder 4-11 year olds?0
This discussion has been closed.
