Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Another Shooting In America?

1525355575881

Comments

  • KBslittlesis
    KBslittlesis Posts: 8,602
    Huskaris said:
    In this case it's not really gun control that's the issue.

    The issue is the terrorism and the racist fundamentalist ideology that drives it.
    It massively compounds the issue, they aren't mutually exclusive. 

    The equivalent person can do a huge amount more damage in America than they can in the UK. The terrorist attacks we have had in London in recent years would have been far worse if we did not have gun control. If that man had been armed with just a knife I would hazard a guess he would not have been able to murder 10 people. So yes, it is also a case of gun control, as well as tackling ideology. If I am getting shot at while I go about my daily business, my concern isn't the ideology of the person doing it, it's the bullets flying at me.
    JamesSeed said:
    Huskaris said:
    The ability of someone who is severely deranged to get hold of serious weaponry is probably the main reason I would never move to America. 
    Deranged? Or brainwashed and massively racist? It’s a bit of a cop out to say these people are mentally ill. 
    I don't really see the difference between the two, I would say the exact same about the terrorist attacks in London to be clear. Anyone who is willing to go and indiscriminately murder people is deranged in my mind, regardless of why they are doing it.

    I am very, very glad we live in a country where those people don't have access to heavy weaponry. 
    Brushing it under the carpet as a 'mental health incident' removes the why and how countries can prevent these atrocities in the future. 

    Far-right propoganda has been left to fester on the internet and on television brainwashing people to be hateful enough to take these actions. But 'my free speech' I suppose. 
    It isn’t alone.
    ALL forms of extremism is being left to fester on the internet.
    There needs to be far more monitoring and regulation.

    It won’t happen 🙄
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    cafcfan said:
    Addickted said:
    You should have just paid the duties on the tea.
    Like many things, the story of the Boston Tea Party is a nice way of hiding the terrible truth from the good citizens of America. The Tea Party was in 1773. The year before, in a case brought in the English courts, Somerset v Stewart, the Judge ruled that an individual could not be taken from England into enforced bondage. The case involved a slave brought from the colonies to England by his master. The slave owner wanted to take him back. During the case the Judge also said that English Law did not allow slavery. And it would need an Act of Parliament to change that position. (In fact there was an Act in 1807 but it abolished the transatlantic slave trade.)

    In 1773, the colonists could see the writing on the wall.  Ironically, the Land of the Free wanted their freedom in order to continue to enslave others. George Washington's own plantation, Mount Vernon, had 317 slaves. 

    The Proclamation Line was another important factor. The British did not want the colonists expanding west beyond this line which separated the colonists from many of the Native Americans. This, of course, upset the colonists who wanted to be free to steal the land and resources from others and make their fortunes.  (This is why the vast majority of Native Americans fought on the British side.  In fact few British fought in this war, it was mainly American loyalists, Native Americans and mercenary Germans - the British had more important concerns - the wars against France and Spain.)  

    Keeping slaves and western expansion were much more important than a tax on tea!  The slimeball, Washington, was known as the "Town Destroyer" by the Iroquois. In fact the largest operation undertaken during the war was to destroy Iroquois villages and burn crops. (Putin must have been taking notes!)

    This takes us back to the Declaration of Independence. Which led to the drafting of the Constitution and the subsequent 2nd Amendment of 1791 - the right to keep and bear arms. Something which is, of course, ludicrously outdated.

    One feels the USA would be a much nicer, much calmer place if we had not ceded control.

    Plenty of this still going on in Britain - there’s a huge lack of knowledge of the horrors committed in the name of the Crown during the years of the British empire. We might have banned slavery earlier but not until we’d grown rich from it. 
    Yes, of course the British (or at least a few of them) grew rich from slavery. But I don't think there is an particular ignorance of the past, at least any more than general ignorance about almost everything.  Now while descendants of Jamaican slaves want reparations, where does that stop? Around half the European population of the 13 colonies of the nascent USA were indentured servants.  That is people who did not get paid for their labours.  Should their descendants get reparations too?  (And I'm sure the Incas would like the western part of South America back as well.)
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited May 2022
    Huskaris said:
    In this case it's not really gun control that's the issue.

    The issue is the terrorism and the racist fundamentalist ideology that drives it.
    It massively compounds the issue, they aren't mutually exclusive. 

    The equivalent person can do a huge amount more damage in America than they can in the UK. The terrorist attacks we have had in London in recent years would have been far worse if we did not have gun control. If that man had been armed with just a knife I would hazard a guess he would not have been able to murder 10 people. So yes, it is also a case of gun control, as well as tackling ideology. If I am getting shot at while I go about my daily business, my concern isn't the ideology of the person doing it, it's the bullets flying at me.
    JamesSeed said:
    Huskaris said:
    The ability of someone who is severely deranged to get hold of serious weaponry is probably the main reason I would never move to America. 
    Deranged? Or brainwashed and massively racist? It’s a bit of a cop out to say these people are mentally ill. 
    I don't really see the difference between the two, I would say the exact same about the terrorist attacks in London to be clear. Anyone who is willing to go and indiscriminately murder people is deranged in my mind, regardless of why they are doing it.

    I am very, very glad we live in a country where those people don't have access to heavy weaponry. 
    Me too. 
    But on your other point, there’s a difference between someone who is genuinely psychotic, hearing voices, schizophrenic who might therefore have reduced culpability etc and someone killing for a cause, like the nazis did and still do, (‘ISIS’ too). 
    How an entire nation, one not to dissimilar to our own, could turn to nazism and end up attempting to exterminate an entire race, is what is so scary. 
    Some people see the Republicans in American taking the first steps in the same direction. The spreading of ‘The Great Replacement Theory’ is a case in point. 
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,737
    And yet another tonight.

    1 person shot dead & 4 more injured in a church service in Orange County, California. 
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,847
    edited May 2022
    The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand. 

    The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it. 
  • cafcfan said:
    Addickted said:
    You should have just paid the duties on the tea.
    Like many things, the story of the Boston Tea Party is a nice way of hiding the terrible truth from the good citizens of America. The Tea Party was in 1773. The year before, in a case brought in the English courts, Somerset v Stewart, the Judge ruled that an individual could not be taken from England into enforced bondage. The case involved a slave brought from the colonies to England by his master. The slave owner wanted to take him back. During the case the Judge also said that English Law did not allow slavery. And it would need an Act of Parliament to change that position. (In fact there was an Act in 1807 but it abolished the transatlantic slave trade.)

    In 1773, the colonists could see the writing on the wall.  Ironically, the Land of the Free wanted their freedom in order to continue to enslave others. George Washington's own plantation, Mount Vernon, had 317 slaves. 

    The Proclamation Line was another important factor. The British did not want the colonists expanding west beyond this line which separated the colonists from many of the Native Americans. This, of course, upset the colonists who wanted to be free to steal the land and resources from others and make their fortunes.  (This is why the vast majority of Native Americans fought on the British side.  In fact few British fought in this war, it was mainly American loyalists, Native Americans and mercenary Germans - the British had more important concerns - the wars against France and Spain.)  

    Keeping slaves and western expansion were much more important than a tax on tea!  The slimeball, Washington, was known as the "Town Destroyer" by the Iroquois. In fact the largest operation undertaken during the war was to destroy Iroquois villages and burn crops. (Putin must have been taking notes!)

    This takes us back to the Declaration of Independence. Which led to the drafting of the Constitution and the subsequent 2nd Amendment of 1791 - the right to keep and bear arms. Something which is, of course, ludicrously outdated.

    One feels the USA would be a much nicer, much calmer place if we had not ceded control.

    The American Constitution is based on the English Bill of Rights which included the right to bear arms. Think we moved on from that!
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,750
    I absolutely agree with the right to bare arms.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    cafcfan said:
    Addickted said:
    You should have just paid the duties on the tea.
    Like many things, the story of the Boston Tea Party is a nice way of hiding the terrible truth from the good citizens of America. The Tea Party was in 1773. The year before, in a case brought in the English courts, Somerset v Stewart, the Judge ruled that an individual could not be taken from England into enforced bondage. The case involved a slave brought from the colonies to England by his master. The slave owner wanted to take him back. During the case the Judge also said that English Law did not allow slavery. And it would need an Act of Parliament to change that position. (In fact there was an Act in 1807 but it abolished the transatlantic slave trade.)

    In 1773, the colonists could see the writing on the wall.  Ironically, the Land of the Free wanted their freedom in order to continue to enslave others. George Washington's own plantation, Mount Vernon, had 317 slaves. 

    The Proclamation Line was another important factor. The British did not want the colonists expanding west beyond this line which separated the colonists from many of the Native Americans. This, of course, upset the colonists who wanted to be free to steal the land and resources from others and make their fortunes.  (This is why the vast majority of Native Americans fought on the British side.  In fact few British fought in this war, it was mainly American loyalists, Native Americans and mercenary Germans - the British had more important concerns - the wars against France and Spain.)  

    Keeping slaves and western expansion were much more important than a tax on tea!  The slimeball, Washington, was known as the "Town Destroyer" by the Iroquois. In fact the largest operation undertaken during the war was to destroy Iroquois villages and burn crops. (Putin must have been taking notes!)

    This takes us back to the Declaration of Independence. Which led to the drafting of the Constitution and the subsequent 2nd Amendment of 1791 - the right to keep and bear arms. Something which is, of course, ludicrously outdated.

    One feels the USA would be a much nicer, much calmer place if we had not ceded control.

    Plenty of this still going on in Britain - there’s a huge lack of knowledge of the horrors committed in the name of the Crown during the years of the British empire. We might have banned slavery earlier but not until we’d grown rich from it. 
    and continued to grow rich from the slave trade long after we banned it. All those cotton mills in the industrial revolution that catapulted Great britain into being a superpower... the cotton came from african slaves in the deep south.
  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,413
    Huskaris said:
    The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand. 

    The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it. 
    Are these posts just open for anyone to see?
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,491
    Huskaris said:
    The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand. 

    The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it. 
    Are these posts just open for anyone to see?
    Yes. Anyone can read anything on 4chan or post anything. 
  • Sponsored links:



  • Omurchu
    Omurchu Posts: 10
    Jints said:
    Huskaris said:
    The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand. 

    The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it. 
    Are these posts just open for anyone to see?
    Yes. Anyone can read anything on 4chan or post anything. 
    and anonymous so they can hide behind the defence of irony
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,847
    edited May 2022
    Huskaris said:
    The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand. 

    The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it. 
    Are these posts just open for anyone to see?
    yup, not dark web or anything like that either. It's an absolute sewer.

    Not even usernames like on here so you can tie it back to the same person. There's people on there claiming (in all sincerity) that it was a false flag operation. The live stream the shooter recorded is also all over there. 

    It's such a bad place for fragile minds and I think a lot more people will be radicalised on there. 
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Huskaris said:
    The first one is definitely linked to 4chan, specifically /pol, to the extent where even a lot of them are calling on each other to calm it down a bit. It's a hotbed of incel grooming, highly highly racist, and by everything I can see is basically a copycat of Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand. 

    The stuff on there is pretty hate filled, especially against... Well anyone who is not white Anglo Saxon protestants, and although 99% of it is people chain wanking in their mums basement, there are 1% who, whilst fully subscribing to chain wanking in mums basement, want to make a name for themselves as well, and this is how they think they can do it. 
    Are these posts just open for anyone to see?
    I can’t believe you’ve never been on 4chan lol. I occasionally drop in over there to see what insanity is going on there now. It’s definitely got worse imo. 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,763
    edited May 2022
    Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas.

    At least 14 injured and two dead including a teacher.


    Edit: now reading that it’s 14 kids that have been killed rather than injure. Horrific if true…
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Absolutely horrific. No words.
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,595
    Fucking madness, shooter was 18.
  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,070
    Will anything make a politician/president actually risk it all and sort this out?

    So backwards.
  • robroy
    robroy Posts: 4,425
    No words. Those poor kids 
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,034
    Horrific, just terrible. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,625
    I'm going to be flamed for this but .........

    Sad as it is nothing can be done until guns are banned in the US. And as the gun lobby is so big over there nothing will change. Its not news any more & doesn't shock me. 

    If millions of US citizens openly want to own a gun & more importantly see it as a RIGHT then there is no point being shocked when some teenager decides he is going to shoot up a school.

    Remember "I dont like Monday's". That was over 40 years ago. 
  • Sponsored links:



  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,847
    edited May 2022
    Unbelievable. So sad. Those poor families. 

    I just don't think there's a price that's high enough for America to change. 
  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,458
    WSS said:
    Will anything make a politician/president actually risk it all and sort this out?

    So backwards.
    No
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,733
    I'm going to be flamed for this but .........

    Sad as it is nothing can be done until guns are banned in the US. And as the gun lobby is so big over there nothing will change. Its not news any more & doesn't shock me. 

    If millions of US citizens openly want to own a gun & more importantly see it as a RIGHT then there is no point being shocked when some teenager decides he is going to shoot up a school.

    Remember "I dont like Monday's". That was over 40 years ago. 
    I’m not sure why you think you will be flamed over that opinion. It’s what the vast majority of people think outside the US 
  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,070
    It’s literally the only country in the world where this happens so regularly amongst their own citizens. 

    It’s incomprehensible, it really is.
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,446
    Once Sandy Hook passed and America chose guns over children, this was never going to stop. 

    Their solution is arming teachers, what a backwards country. 
  • Andyessgee90
    Andyessgee90 Posts: 845
    It just doesn't make sense why he would attack an elementary school of all places. Attacking a bunch of 4-11 year olds, what a cowardly prick.

    That's now 4 mass shootings in ELEVEN DAYS!
    There's so much I love about America and my American side of family are always saying to move out there but this is one of the main cons. 
  • Ormiston_Addick
    Ormiston_Addick Posts: 8,810
    America is a sick and diseased country.

    No truly civilised country can allow this to repeatedly happen and yet do NOTHING to stop it.

    Innocent kids gunned down again and again and yet the US Government will do absolutely nothing.
  • Rossman92
    Rossman92 Posts: 3,650
    I'm going to be flamed for this but .........

    Sad as it is nothing can be done until guns are banned in the US. And as the gun lobby is so big over there nothing will change. Its not news any more & doesn't shock me. 

    If millions of US citizens openly want to own a gun & more importantly see it as a RIGHT then there is no point being shocked when some teenager decides he is going to shoot up a school.

    Remember "I dont like Monday's". That was over 40 years ago. 
    Golfie that is an absolute fact mate, I lost faith in something changing after Sandy Hook. The right to bear arms was an inconceivably short sited piece of legislation and one of the worst in American history. 

    We are at the point of no return, and this has been accepted as the new norm
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,990
    Excusing my ignorance, but what are the top few reasons for school shooting in the US?
    I can imagine a grudge against school mates and teachers or ex school mates and teachers, but what else and why would an 18 year old, murder 4-11 year olds?
This discussion has been closed.