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England Cricket 2022
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I never said you did. I implied that you should cut a no 11 batsman some slack for not scoring runs after taking 6 wickets in 59 balls.Addick Addict said:
But I never said he was a bad bowler - you and that Johnny Summers bloke have said I have. Where? Either of you please point me to where I said that!Todds_right_hook said:
Who cares what they were before today.Addick Addict said:Todds_right_hook said:
The guy takes 6-24 and you moan because he isn't don bradman with a bat in his hands.Addick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
I really don't care if he averages 1 with the bat if he keeps on bowling like that
Again you aren't reading what I said and not linking the two - Livingstone having to bat with Topley. I do note the very big "if he keeps on bowling like that" because his figures against India in ODIs, prior to today bowling on a track that could not have suited him more, are 17-3-138-3.
they are now 26.5-5-162-9
judge him when his career is finished, not half way through it.
His actual ODI record is 28 wickets at 24.42 with an E/R of 5.01. His T20I record is 12 wickets at 28.41 with an E/R of 8.28.
The real issue with Topley is that he has always struggled with injury - he played just one England game in five years because of it. He should still be able to defend a bloody cricket ball though - nurture and nature, he had them both and still couldn't!1 -
Great to see those figures from Topley, always kept an eye out for him even after he left Essex, and he's had so many injuries I never thought he'd reach his potential. A few more performances like that and he just might3
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6-24 suckerAddick Addict said:
So, where exactly did I say he was a bad bowler or that I would not pick him, especially given the current list of injured fast bowlers such as Archer, Wood, Mahmood, Fisher, Robinson, Tom Curran, Woakes and Stone to name but eight of the top of my head.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
My argument was I would pick Reece Topley, because he is a very good bowler not worried about he's batting average, you went out of your way to moan about how bad a batter he isAddick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
I'm not moaning. I am stating a fact. He cannot even defend a ball and it is totally ridiculous that a professional cricketer, let alone the son of a former pro and top coach, has never tried to learn how to do so. Even Monty Panesar managed eventually to do so and he probably never had an ounce of coaching as to how to bat, let alone field, in his life. But more of the issue was Livingstone giving his wicket up and the need for Topley to bat at all. The fact that we did not use up all of our overs could have been the difference between winning and losing.2 -
Well done Reece Topley2
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Troll number 2 (you'll never beat Chiz who is the King where that is concerned)Johnnysummers5 said:
6-24 suckerAddick Addict said:
So, where exactly did I say he was a bad bowler or that I would not pick him, especially given the current list of injured fast bowlers such as Archer, Wood, Mahmood, Fisher, Robinson, Tom Curran, Woakes and Stone to name but eight of the top of my head.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
My argument was I would pick Reece Topley, because he is a very good bowler not worried about he's batting average, you went out of your way to moan about how bad a batter he isAddick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
I'm not moaning. I am stating a fact. He cannot even defend a ball and it is totally ridiculous that a professional cricketer, let alone the son of a former pro and top coach, has never tried to learn how to do so. Even Monty Panesar managed eventually to do so and he probably never had an ounce of coaching as to how to bat, let alone field, in his life. But more of the issue was Livingstone giving his wicket up and the need for Topley to bat at all. The fact that we did not use up all of our overs could have been the difference between winning and losing.0 -
King of the TrollsChizz said:Well done Reece Topley0 -
Sigh!Johnnysummers5 said:
6-24 suckerAddick Addict said:
So, where exactly did I say he was a bad bowler or that I would not pick him, especially given the current list of injured fast bowlers such as Archer, Wood, Mahmood, Fisher, Robinson, Tom Curran, Woakes and Stone to name but eight of the top of my head.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
My argument was I would pick Reece Topley, because he is a very good bowler not worried about he's batting average, you went out of your way to moan about how bad a batter he isAddick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
I'm not moaning. I am stating a fact. He cannot even defend a ball and it is totally ridiculous that a professional cricketer, let alone the son of a former pro and top coach, has never tried to learn how to do so. Even Monty Panesar managed eventually to do so and he probably never had an ounce of coaching as to how to bat, let alone field, in his life. But more of the issue was Livingstone giving his wicket up and the need for Topley to bat at all. The fact that we did not use up all of our overs could have been the difference between winning and losing.0 -
I have never, ever seen a post rammed back down a poster's throat so quickly and comprehensively in CL history. KudosAddick Addict said:Johnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.1 -
(Et tu, Leuth?)1
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It is kind of unlucky tbf. You slag off a player and he immediately takes 6-24 against India in a low runchase out of nowhere. It's like if I decide to really go after (say) Kirk one week and he gets 2 goals and an assist the next day. Against Sheffield Wednesday1
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Topley and Bumrah both have batting averages in ODIs under 9. (Topley's is slightly higher). But I bet neither of them get dropped.1
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It must have happened to you a few timesLeuth said:
I have never, ever seen a post rammed back down a poster's throat so quickly and comprehensively in CL history. KudosAddick Addict said:Johnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.1 -
Did you not think Reece Topley done well then? you put a lol against 2 posters who said he didAddick Addict said:
Troll number 2 (you'll never beat Chiz who is the King where that is concerned)Johnnysummers5 said:
6-24 suckerAddick Addict said:
So, where exactly did I say he was a bad bowler or that I would not pick him, especially given the current list of injured fast bowlers such as Archer, Wood, Mahmood, Fisher, Robinson, Tom Curran, Woakes and Stone to name but eight of the top of my head.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
My argument was I would pick Reece Topley, because he is a very good bowler not worried about he's batting average, you went out of your way to moan about how bad a batter he isAddick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
I'm not moaning. I am stating a fact. He cannot even defend a ball and it is totally ridiculous that a professional cricketer, let alone the son of a former pro and top coach, has never tried to learn how to do so. Even Monty Panesar managed eventually to do so and he probably never had an ounce of coaching as to how to bat, let alone field, in his life. But more of the issue was Livingstone giving his wicket up and the need for Topley to bat at all. The fact that we did not use up all of our overs could have been the difference between winning and losing.0 -
Absolutely Leuth.Leuth said:(Et tu, Leuth?)
The thing is that you made a very good point about Livingstone not coming in when circumstances suit him best. That was absolutely right. My concern was that we would run out of partners for him if he batted at 7 or 8 and that having a non batsman at 11 doesn't help. But the situation would not have been created in the first place but for Livingstone's ineptitude - I just don't understand how, someone who has played as much cricket as he has, gets suckered into going for another one when we already have 15 of the over.
Let me put it another way - as a leg spin bowler, would you rather have someone who goes for another maximum and potentially gets out or someone who pushes the next ball through the covers for a single? Are you going to be brave and tempt him with a slower, wider one or just bowl a flat one to stop him from scoring? I would hope the latter and that the batsman rises to the bait. Livingstone was angry with himself at his stupidity especially as it was the second time he had got out to that shot in consecutive matches - with a combined total of 46 overs to go and only four or five wickets in hand. It was shocking decision making. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I would be as critical of my son for doing that as I would Livingstone. And Seb's not 28 with almost 300 white ball professional games behind him. It was just dumb cricket - times two!
My criticism of Livingstone and Topley doesn't make them bad cricketers - far from it. The former has made a couple of very poor decisions and the latter clearly has never wanted to learn how to bat. Everyone can be taught to bat to a certain degree and the son of a former pro and international coach should not find it that difficult to do so. I never said either should be dropped because of it. Should we not have opinions about those aspects of their game in isolation?
You clearly have a fundamental understanding of the game and like Canters, Killerandflash, Blackpool, Lolwray, MOL, McBobbin, Pelling and too many others on here to mention have that too. We're never going to agree about everything (especially in Canters case where Surrey are concerned) but at least you all offer some depth.
I have one poster who likes to troll me who's favourite thread seems to be the New Word Game thread which requires just one word answers (which explains his in depth analysis and penchant for offering a coherent argument) and another who is a "professional, see who I can wind up on a thread, light the touch paper and run merchant to the next thread I can do it on". They both obviously gets great enjoyment and excitement at doing it. I've even had to resort to LOLing their one liners, not that I disagree with them saying "well done Reece Topley" but because it is so damn obvious why they are doing it especially when they keep repeating the dose! Without offering a single shred of counter argument to "why was Livingstone so stupid (twice)" and "why has Topley never learnt to bat with all the opportunities presented by both nurture and nature?". It's always a "look at how well the boy bowled when I never said Topley wasn't a good bowler!!!" And that is a clear case of attacking the man and not the ball.
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The very same two posters. See above.Johnnysummers5 said:
Did you not think Reece Topley done well then? you put a lol against 2 posters who said he didAddick Addict said:
Troll number 2 (you'll never beat Chiz who is the King where that is concerned)Johnnysummers5 said:
6-24 suckerAddick Addict said:
So, where exactly did I say he was a bad bowler or that I would not pick him, especially given the current list of injured fast bowlers such as Archer, Wood, Mahmood, Fisher, Robinson, Tom Curran, Woakes and Stone to name but eight of the top of my head.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
My argument was I would pick Reece Topley, because he is a very good bowler not worried about he's batting average, you went out of your way to moan about how bad a batter he isAddick Addict said:
Well done Topley on taking six wickets on a track that suited you. Shame that you might discarded once all the first string bowlers are back.Johnnysummers5 said:
You must be right, you think you always areAddick Addict said:
Where did I say he was a bad bowler? My two points were thatJohnnysummers5 said:
Not a bad bowler, what he is in the team forAddick Addict said:
Topley is a throwback. Absolutely clueless with a FC average of 4.12. I know that his old man was a bowler too but surely he could teach him the basics of getting in line. And even if he couldn't I reckon that a mate of his, someone called Graham Gooch, might be able to help!Addick Addict said:
I get that but the issue with doing that is that the tail ends up not wagging - and Livingstone is left stranded especially with someone like Topley at 11. He is a good enough cricketer to recognise, with the damage of 15 in the over, is that there is a time to play the percentages - to get out twice in a row giving a seamer the charge is really poor. In the last game he did it because he was still on zero after 7 balls. So what? We still had 42 overs to go.Leuth said:Livingstone is an amazing finisher who's been forced to come in early two games in a row. I have sympathy - he only knows one way. There's been a case to hold him back until 7 or 8 both games
(1) If you bat Livingstone at 8, then it's only another three wickets 'til Topley troops out to bat with him and that is, effectively, the end of the innings - look at how we lost our last four wickets for 36 runs. Two totally irresponsible and identical shots have cost Livingstone his wicket. And I reckon that he might be out of the next match having seen how hard he punched his bat due to the frustration at his own stupidity. He's not a 13 year old county age group player. To do it once is an accident. To do it twice is criminal and Moeen and Willy showed what could be achieved with a bit of application.
(2) The days of Tufnell, Panesar, Martin, Malcolm, Mullally etc etc are long gone and unless you are a Bumrah, Walsh or McGrath in great teams where you don't need to bat very often then you really should know one end of a bat from another. Topley, as you are probably aware, is the son of Don who was a bowler too but who managed to average over 15. Don even coached Zimbabwe - did he never coach his son or is Reece really that incapable of taking instruction on how to block a ball? The bloke has a lifetime total of 300 runs from 110 innings in all forms of the game. Being an OK international bowler who has taken a lifetime, at the age of 28, just 37 wickets isn't enough nowadays.
On another note, are you sure you and Chiz aren't one and the same. Because both of you never ever offer a coherent argument but come out with those classic one liners attempted at winding me up. Or, in your case, it's usually one word - "sigh". At least Chiz manages occasionally to string a sentence together by way of a counter argument!
Sigh!
I'm not moaning. I am stating a fact. He cannot even defend a ball and it is totally ridiculous that a professional cricketer, let alone the son of a former pro and top coach, has never tried to learn how to do so. Even Monty Panesar managed eventually to do so and he probably never had an ounce of coaching as to how to bat, let alone field, in his life. But more of the issue was Livingstone giving his wicket up and the need for Topley to bat at all. The fact that we did not use up all of our overs could have been the difference between winning and losing.0 -
The problem is that there can be two types of posters. Ones that are prepared to say in advance of something that has happened and others who consistently "aftertime" and take great joy in doing so.Leuth said:It is kind of unlucky tbf. You slag off a player and he immediately takes 6-24 against India in a low runchase out of nowhere. It's like if I decide to really go after (say) Kirk one week and he gets 2 goals and an assist the next day. Against Sheffield Wednesday
I said when Buttler took the captaincy that I had reservations as to whether he could do all three jobs of keeping, batting and captaining the side and how that might have an adverse affect not just on the team but, more to the point, on his own game. I still have those reservations and have seen nothing to disprove that theory given the fact that he has scored 56 runs in 5 innings since I said it. The difference is that I expressed that opinion in advance and based on my knowledge of my own son trying and failing to do all three and all I know about Buttler. But I know that, if and when Buttler scores a ton, one of those two trolls will take the opportunity to say "well done Buttler" and repeatedly so.0 -
Who said they should be dropped? Well done I winning that bet against yourself. I bet you and your alter ego have won loads between you. And congratulations on not mentioning that Topley has 17 (yes seventeen) lifetime ODI runs and that he scored 3 runs off 7 balls faced before getting out with a whole over of the innings remaining thus preventing Overton from scoring some meaningful runs too.Chizz said:Topley and Bumrah both have batting averages in ODIs under 9. (Topley's is slightly higher). But I bet neither of them get dropped.
#chizzmusttryharder0 -
I'm getting more and more convinced @Addick Addict worked as an england selector in the mid 90s.
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So you are stalking me now, saying my favourite thread is the New Word Game. I am 78 have been a cricket fan for over 70 years, I love the game and always want England to win. I left school at 15 so probably don't have the education you do, but will play you at chess any time, as for being a troll you say that because I don't agree with some of your comments, you have to be right, well you got it wrong big time yesterdayAddick Addict said:
Absolutely Leuth.Leuth said:(Et tu, Leuth?)
The thing is that you made a very good point about Livingstone not coming in when circumstances suit him best. That was absolutely right. My concern was that we would run out of partners for him if he batted at 7 or 8 and that having a non batsman at 11 doesn't help. But the situation would not have been created in the first place but for Livingstone's ineptitude - I just don't understand how, someone who has played as much cricket as he has, gets suckered into going for another one when we already have 15 of the over.
Let me put it another way - as a leg spin bowler, would you rather have someone who goes for another maximum and potentially gets out or someone who pushes the next ball through the covers for a single? Are you going to be brave and tempt him with a slower, wider one or just bowl a flat one to stop him from scoring? I would hope the latter and that the batsman rises to the bait. Livingstone was angry with himself at his stupidity especially as it was the second time he had got out to that shot in consecutive matches - with a combined total of 46 overs to go and only four or five wickets in hand. It was shocking decision making. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I would be as critical of my son for doing that as I would Livingstone. And Seb's not 28 with almost 300 white ball professional games behind him. It was just dumb cricket - times two!
My criticism of Livingstone and Topley doesn't make them bad cricketers - far from it. The former has made a couple of very poor decisions and the latter clearly has never wanted to learn how to bat. Everyone can be taught to bat to a certain degree and the son of a former pro and international coach should not find it that difficult to do so. I never said either should be dropped because of it. Should we not have opinions about those aspects of their game in isolation?
You clearly have a fundamental understanding of the game and like Canters, Killerandflash, Blackpool, Lolwray, MOL, McBobbin, Pelling and too many others on here to mention have that too. We're never going to agree about everything (especially in Canters case where Surrey are concerned) but at least you all offer some depth.
I have one poster who likes to troll me who's favourite thread seems to be the New Word Game thread which requires just one word answers (which explains his in depth analysis and penchant for offering a coherent argument) and another who is a "professional, see who I can wind up on a thread, light the touch paper and run merchant to the next thread I can do it on". They both obviously gets great enjoyment and excitement at doing it. I've even had to resort to LOLing their one liners, not that I disagree with them saying "well done Reece Topley" but because it is so damn obvious why they are doing it especially when they keep repeating the dose! Without offering a single shred of counter argument to "why was Livingstone so stupid (twice)" and "why has Topley never learnt to bat with all the opportunities presented by both nurture and nature?". It's always a "look at how well the boy bowled when I never said Topley wasn't a good bowler!!!" And that is a clear case of attacking the man and not the ball.
0 -
I am not more stalking you than you are trolling me. You're surely not going to deny that virtually every one of your comments were made in relation to something I've said are you? I can't be bothered to count the number of times you've just said "sigh" in response to one of mine. And I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you would wipe the floor with me at chess. I am useless at it. And age has no bearing whatsoever. I'm not so young myself!Johnnysummers5 said:
So you are stalking me now, saying my favourite thread is the New Word Game. I am 78 have been a cricket fan for over 70 years, I love the game and always want England to win. I left school at 15 so probably don't have the education you do, but will play you at chess any time, as for being a troll you say that because I don't agree with some of your comments, you have to be right, well you got it wrong big time yesterdayAddick Addict said:
Absolutely Leuth.Leuth said:(Et tu, Leuth?)
The thing is that you made a very good point about Livingstone not coming in when circumstances suit him best. That was absolutely right. My concern was that we would run out of partners for him if he batted at 7 or 8 and that having a non batsman at 11 doesn't help. But the situation would not have been created in the first place but for Livingstone's ineptitude - I just don't understand how, someone who has played as much cricket as he has, gets suckered into going for another one when we already have 15 of the over.
Let me put it another way - as a leg spin bowler, would you rather have someone who goes for another maximum and potentially gets out or someone who pushes the next ball through the covers for a single? Are you going to be brave and tempt him with a slower, wider one or just bowl a flat one to stop him from scoring? I would hope the latter and that the batsman rises to the bait. Livingstone was angry with himself at his stupidity especially as it was the second time he had got out to that shot in consecutive matches - with a combined total of 46 overs to go and only four or five wickets in hand. It was shocking decision making. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I would be as critical of my son for doing that as I would Livingstone. And Seb's not 28 with almost 300 white ball professional games behind him. It was just dumb cricket - times two!
My criticism of Livingstone and Topley doesn't make them bad cricketers - far from it. The former has made a couple of very poor decisions and the latter clearly has never wanted to learn how to bat. Everyone can be taught to bat to a certain degree and the son of a former pro and international coach should not find it that difficult to do so. I never said either should be dropped because of it. Should we not have opinions about those aspects of their game in isolation?
You clearly have a fundamental understanding of the game and like Canters, Killerandflash, Blackpool, Lolwray, MOL, McBobbin, Pelling and too many others on here to mention have that too. We're never going to agree about everything (especially in Canters case where Surrey are concerned) but at least you all offer some depth.
I have one poster who likes to troll me who's favourite thread seems to be the New Word Game thread which requires just one word answers (which explains his in depth analysis and penchant for offering a coherent argument) and another who is a "professional, see who I can wind up on a thread, light the touch paper and run merchant to the next thread I can do it on". They both obviously gets great enjoyment and excitement at doing it. I've even had to resort to LOLing their one liners, not that I disagree with them saying "well done Reece Topley" but because it is so damn obvious why they are doing it especially when they keep repeating the dose! Without offering a single shred of counter argument to "why was Livingstone so stupid (twice)" and "why has Topley never learnt to bat with all the opportunities presented by both nurture and nature?". It's always a "look at how well the boy bowled when I never said Topley wasn't a good bowler!!!" And that is a clear case of attacking the man and not the ball.
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Could you like to offer some depth to that rather than just a throw away comment presumably designed to gain a few "likes" or "lols"? Which bit of what I have said comes from being a mid 90s selector?kentaddick said:I'm getting more and more convinced @Addick Addict worked as an england selector in the mid 90s.0 -
No-one said they should be dropped. Bumrah's one of the greatest bowlers in the ODI game, so he's failures with the bat mean almost nothing. Topley's was dismissed for the first time in an ODI since his debut in 2015, which further proves his selection is appropriate: he's picked for his bowling, not his batting. In fact, since his debut in 2015, he's never been out for nought. Unlike every one of England's top eight from yesterday.Addick Addict said:
Who said they should be dropped? Well done I winning that bet against yourself. I bet you and your alter ego have won loads between you. And congratulations on not mentioning that Topley has 17 (yes seventeen) lifetime ODI runs and that he scored 3 runs off 7 balls faced before getting out with a whole over of the innings remaining thus preventing Overton from scoring some meaningful runs too.Chizz said:Topley and Bumrah both have batting averages in ODIs under 9. (Topley's is slightly higher). But I bet neither of them get dropped.
#chizzmusttryharder
Well done to Bumrah and Topley in the series so far. Both should improve their batting; both should continue to play important roles even if they don't.
I missed the end of the game last night, so I was pleased to the result, later in the day. It would have been really good if most of the comments on here were for a great performance. That's why I was so pleased to see Johnnysummers5's comments. I don't know why this thread attracts a small coterie of individuals who seem fixated on being over-critical. It's absolutely fair enough to articulate misgivings about players. But sometimes the criticism goes too far in one direction. That of Bairstow, for example, in the last few seasons. Having said that, some of the best posters on here have been ones critical of a player like Bairstow but then been among the first to praise them when they've exceeded their expectations.
For me, the most memorable aspect of Topley's performance yesterday was his bowling figures. But I understand why others might be more excited by his terrible batting.1 -
Oh Chizz please. "Bet neither of them get dropped". Your cricketing analysis has no limits to the extent that you even have winning bets with yourself (by virtue of the fact that you've now admitted "No-one said they should be dropped"). It's a wind up. You know it. I know it and most posters on here know it.Chizz said:
No-one said they should be dropped. Bumrah's one of the greatest bowlers in the ODI game, so he's failures with the bat mean almost nothing. Topley's was dismissed for the first time in an ODI since his debut in 2015, which further proves his selection is appropriate: he's picked for his bowling, not his batting. In fact, since his debut in 2015, he's never been out for nought. Unlike every one of England's top eight from yesterday.Addick Addict said:
Who said they should be dropped? Well done I winning that bet against yourself. I bet you and your alter ego have won loads between you. And congratulations on not mentioning that Topley has 17 (yes seventeen) lifetime ODI runs and that he scored 3 runs off 7 balls faced before getting out with a whole over of the innings remaining thus preventing Overton from scoring some meaningful runs too.Chizz said:Topley and Bumrah both have batting averages in ODIs under 9. (Topley's is slightly higher). But I bet neither of them get dropped.
#chizzmusttryharder
Well done to Bumrah and Topley in the series so far. Both should improve their batting; both should continue to play important roles even if they don't.
I missed the end of the game last night, so I was pleased to the result, later in the day. It would have been really good if most of the comments on here were for a great performance. That's why I was so pleased to see Johnnysummers5's comments. I don't know why this thread attracts a small coterie of individuals who seem fixated on being over-critical. It's absolutely fair enough to articulate misgivings about players. But sometimes the criticism goes too far in one direction. That of Bairstow, for example, in the last few seasons. Having said that, some of the best posters on here have been ones critical of a player like Bairstow but then been among the first to praise them when they've exceeded their expectations.
For me, the most memorable aspect of Topley's performance yesterday was his bowling figures. But I understand why others might be more excited by his terrible batting.
The good news is that you will be able to dip into your favourite thread soon. The Hundred and continue to wax lyrically about how it's improving our game.0 -
The only comments, I have made that you did not like were about Malan and Topley, somebody else started using sigh when talking about Malan, I just copied it as you tell me I can only use small words, as you think the New Word Game is only for people like me, your head is so far up your arse it's untrueAddick Addict said:
I am not more stalking you than you are trolling me. You're surely not going to deny that virtually every one of your comments were made in relation to something I've said are you? I can't be bothered to count the number of times you've just said "sigh" in response to one of mine. And I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you would wipe the floor with me at chess. I am useless at it. And age has no bearing whatsoever. I'm not so young myself!Johnnysummers5 said:
So you are stalking me now, saying my favourite thread is the New Word Game. I am 78 have been a cricket fan for over 70 years, I love the game and always want England to win. I left school at 15 so probably don't have the education you do, but will play you at chess any time, as for being a troll you say that because I don't agree with some of your comments, you have to be right, well you got it wrong big time yesterdayAddick Addict said:
Absolutely Leuth.Leuth said:(Et tu, Leuth?)
The thing is that you made a very good point about Livingstone not coming in when circumstances suit him best. That was absolutely right. My concern was that we would run out of partners for him if he batted at 7 or 8 and that having a non batsman at 11 doesn't help. But the situation would not have been created in the first place but for Livingstone's ineptitude - I just don't understand how, someone who has played as much cricket as he has, gets suckered into going for another one when we already have 15 of the over.
Let me put it another way - as a leg spin bowler, would you rather have someone who goes for another maximum and potentially gets out or someone who pushes the next ball through the covers for a single? Are you going to be brave and tempt him with a slower, wider one or just bowl a flat one to stop him from scoring? I would hope the latter and that the batsman rises to the bait. Livingstone was angry with himself at his stupidity especially as it was the second time he had got out to that shot in consecutive matches - with a combined total of 46 overs to go and only four or five wickets in hand. It was shocking decision making. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I would be as critical of my son for doing that as I would Livingstone. And Seb's not 28 with almost 300 white ball professional games behind him. It was just dumb cricket - times two!
My criticism of Livingstone and Topley doesn't make them bad cricketers - far from it. The former has made a couple of very poor decisions and the latter clearly has never wanted to learn how to bat. Everyone can be taught to bat to a certain degree and the son of a former pro and international coach should not find it that difficult to do so. I never said either should be dropped because of it. Should we not have opinions about those aspects of their game in isolation?
You clearly have a fundamental understanding of the game and like Canters, Killerandflash, Blackpool, Lolwray, MOL, McBobbin, Pelling and too many others on here to mention have that too. We're never going to agree about everything (especially in Canters case where Surrey are concerned) but at least you all offer some depth.
I have one poster who likes to troll me who's favourite thread seems to be the New Word Game thread which requires just one word answers (which explains his in depth analysis and penchant for offering a coherent argument) and another who is a "professional, see who I can wind up on a thread, light the touch paper and run merchant to the next thread I can do it on". They both obviously gets great enjoyment and excitement at doing it. I've even had to resort to LOLing their one liners, not that I disagree with them saying "well done Reece Topley" but because it is so damn obvious why they are doing it especially when they keep repeating the dose! Without offering a single shred of counter argument to "why was Livingstone so stupid (twice)" and "why has Topley never learnt to bat with all the opportunities presented by both nurture and nature?". It's always a "look at how well the boy bowled when I never said Topley wasn't a good bowler!!!" And that is a clear case of attacking the man and not the ball.
0 -
You just seem reluctant to offer unqualified praise when some players put in a good performance. Yesterday's return from Topley was the best bowling figures by an England player, ever. Most people acknowledge that and welcome a great performance. But it seems some are more fixated on his batting technique. The analogy would be watching Jason Roy make 180 against Australia at Melbourne and commenting exclusively on why he never seems to take many wickets.Addick Addict said:
Oh Chizz please. "Bet neither of them get dropped". Your cricketing analysis has no limits to the extent that you even have winning bets with yourself (by virtue of the fact that you've now admitted "No-one said they should be dropped"). It's a wind up. You know it. I know it and most posters on here know it.Chizz said:
No-one said they should be dropped. Bumrah's one of the greatest bowlers in the ODI game, so he's failures with the bat mean almost nothing. Topley's was dismissed for the first time in an ODI since his debut in 2015, which further proves his selection is appropriate: he's picked for his bowling, not his batting. In fact, since his debut in 2015, he's never been out for nought. Unlike every one of England's top eight from yesterday.Addick Addict said:
Who said they should be dropped? Well done I winning that bet against yourself. I bet you and your alter ego have won loads between you. And congratulations on not mentioning that Topley has 17 (yes seventeen) lifetime ODI runs and that he scored 3 runs off 7 balls faced before getting out with a whole over of the innings remaining thus preventing Overton from scoring some meaningful runs too.Chizz said:Topley and Bumrah both have batting averages in ODIs under 9. (Topley's is slightly higher). But I bet neither of them get dropped.
#chizzmusttryharder
Well done to Bumrah and Topley in the series so far. Both should improve their batting; both should continue to play important roles even if they don't.
I missed the end of the game last night, so I was pleased to the result, later in the day. It would have been really good if most of the comments on here were for a great performance. That's why I was so pleased to see Johnnysummers5's comments. I don't know why this thread attracts a small coterie of individuals who seem fixated on being over-critical. It's absolutely fair enough to articulate misgivings about players. But sometimes the criticism goes too far in one direction. That of Bairstow, for example, in the last few seasons. Having said that, some of the best posters on here have been ones critical of a player like Bairstow but then been among the first to praise them when they've exceeded their expectations.
For me, the most memorable aspect of Topley's performance yesterday was his bowling figures. But I understand why others might be more excited by his terrible batting.
The good news is that you will be able to dip into your favourite thread soon. The Hundred and continue to wax lyrically about how it's improving our game.
Whether or not you - or anyone else - agree, I think it was a great performance from Reece Topley. I hope he can put in another good showing on Sunday to help England win the series. Let's leave it at that.0 -
But you did keep using the word "sigh". Why did you copy the use of it? Because you thought it would wind me up? For what other reason did you use it on at least half a dozen occasions. It's the more subtle way of saying "bollocks". Just a constant dig without ever backing that dig up.Johnnysummers5 said:
The only comments, I have made that you did not like were about Malan and Topley, somebody else started using sigh when talking about Malan, I just copied it as you tell me I can only use small words, as you think the New Word Game is only for people like me, your head is so far up your arse it's untrueAddick Addict said:
I am not more stalking you than you are trolling me. You're surely not going to deny that virtually every one of your comments were made in relation to something I've said are you? I can't be bothered to count the number of times you've just said "sigh" in response to one of mine. And I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you would wipe the floor with me at chess. I am useless at it. And age has no bearing whatsoever. I'm not so young myself!Johnnysummers5 said:
So you are stalking me now, saying my favourite thread is the New Word Game. I am 78 have been a cricket fan for over 70 years, I love the game and always want England to win. I left school at 15 so probably don't have the education you do, but will play you at chess any time, as for being a troll you say that because I don't agree with some of your comments, you have to be right, well you got it wrong big time yesterdayAddick Addict said:
Absolutely Leuth.Leuth said:(Et tu, Leuth?)
The thing is that you made a very good point about Livingstone not coming in when circumstances suit him best. That was absolutely right. My concern was that we would run out of partners for him if he batted at 7 or 8 and that having a non batsman at 11 doesn't help. But the situation would not have been created in the first place but for Livingstone's ineptitude - I just don't understand how, someone who has played as much cricket as he has, gets suckered into going for another one when we already have 15 of the over.
Let me put it another way - as a leg spin bowler, would you rather have someone who goes for another maximum and potentially gets out or someone who pushes the next ball through the covers for a single? Are you going to be brave and tempt him with a slower, wider one or just bowl a flat one to stop him from scoring? I would hope the latter and that the batsman rises to the bait. Livingstone was angry with himself at his stupidity especially as it was the second time he had got out to that shot in consecutive matches - with a combined total of 46 overs to go and only four or five wickets in hand. It was shocking decision making. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I would be as critical of my son for doing that as I would Livingstone. And Seb's not 28 with almost 300 white ball professional games behind him. It was just dumb cricket - times two!
My criticism of Livingstone and Topley doesn't make them bad cricketers - far from it. The former has made a couple of very poor decisions and the latter clearly has never wanted to learn how to bat. Everyone can be taught to bat to a certain degree and the son of a former pro and international coach should not find it that difficult to do so. I never said either should be dropped because of it. Should we not have opinions about those aspects of their game in isolation?
You clearly have a fundamental understanding of the game and like Canters, Killerandflash, Blackpool, Lolwray, MOL, McBobbin, Pelling and too many others on here to mention have that too. We're never going to agree about everything (especially in Canters case where Surrey are concerned) but at least you all offer some depth.
I have one poster who likes to troll me who's favourite thread seems to be the New Word Game thread which requires just one word answers (which explains his in depth analysis and penchant for offering a coherent argument) and another who is a "professional, see who I can wind up on a thread, light the touch paper and run merchant to the next thread I can do it on". They both obviously gets great enjoyment and excitement at doing it. I've even had to resort to LOLing their one liners, not that I disagree with them saying "well done Reece Topley" but because it is so damn obvious why they are doing it especially when they keep repeating the dose! Without offering a single shred of counter argument to "why was Livingstone so stupid (twice)" and "why has Topley never learnt to bat with all the opportunities presented by both nurture and nature?". It's always a "look at how well the boy bowled when I never said Topley wasn't a good bowler!!!" And that is a clear case of attacking the man and not the ball.
Equally, I never ever said the "New Word Game is only for people like you". I said that you just using one word to post was in keeping with your favourite thread. And it wasn't a very nice one either - especially when it is being used time and time again and I discover that the only time you choose to use it is when I post something.
As for Malan I will openly admit, as I have done, that I believe that he is one selfish cricketer. I've been told that by those in the game too. Why do you think he was dropped down the order in the World Cup? I have only ever criticised Topley for not learning how to bat when he had every resource that a refugee would walk a million miles for. And Livingstone for giving his wicket up cheaply. I've said that Roy looks hopelessly out of touch too. But I haven't called for any of them, bar Malan, to be dropped.1 -
This is probably my favourite thread on this forum. It now seems to have gone the same way as all the others on this forum, with pointless bickering & point scoring.
Sad to see5 -
Agreed. This little feud is getting boring. Can those involved try to agree to disagree and drop it now?Gravesend_Addick said:This is probably my favourite thread on this forum. It now seems to have gone the same way as all the others on this forum, with pointless bickering & point scoring.
Sad to see3 -
No it hasn'tGravesend_Addick said:This is probably my favourite thread on this forum. It now seems to have gone the same way as all the others on this forum, with pointless bickering & point scoring.
Sad to see1 -
No one cares.0
