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VAR - are you a fan?
Comments
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Get some competent refs in from other countries might be a start.
No idea what’s going on in the Premier League but there appears to be far more controversies on a weekly basis than you hear of in the other major European leagues.
It can’t be that hard to get the simple decisions right.0 -
Failing that, VAR by committee. One shocking ref can hopefully be overruled by two other refs with a pair of working eyes.0
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More refs reviewing the reviewers?Callumcafc said:Failing that, VAR by committee. One shocking ref can hopefully be overruled by two other refs with a pair of working eyes.
That's like saying the way to solve Americas gun problem is more guns!2 -
I was anti VAR when it was introduced but on balance I think it does result in fairer decision making. The mistakes attract a lot of bad press but a lot of poor decisions are correctly overturned with less attention. The biggest perceived problems relate to lack of clarity about the rules, especially handball, which are not really about VAR at all. The drawing of lines for offside is unavoidable although I think some of the dissatisfaction about this would be removed if it could be done quicker. The time taken to make VAR decisions remains frustrating but it would be detrimental to get rid of VAR now.3
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Yeah great, i'm sure that'll be a huge comfort to Brighton. Especially if they end up missing out on European football because of it.Callumcafc said:
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Nah - doing VAR this way with one referee is proving to be like holding a trial where the jury is made up of one deaf and blind bloke.Off_it said:
More refs reviewing the reviewers?Callumcafc said:Failing that, VAR by committee. One shocking ref can hopefully be overruled by two other refs with a pair of working eyes.
That's like saying the way to solve Americas gun problem is more guns!
All it would take is one extra official (perhaps the 4th has a camera in the tunnel?) taking a look simultaneous to VAR. If both agree to overturn, it’s done without the need for the ref to spend time at the monitor while if both agree the correct decision was made, we move on. If there’s a 1-to-1 split, then the ref has to be called to the monitor for the deciding “vote”.
Probably not the perfect system but they’re just ideas off the top of my head.0 -
Alternatively, F*ck VAR off and go back to how it used to work, when one persons interpretation of play worked better than two or three or four people's individual interpretation of the same incident trying to be implemented.Callumcafc said:
Nah - doing VAR this way with one referee is proving to be like holding a trial where the jury is made up of one deaf and blind bloke.Off_it said:
More refs reviewing the reviewers?Callumcafc said:Failing that, VAR by committee. One shocking ref can hopefully be overruled by two other refs with a pair of working eyes.
That's like saying the way to solve Americas gun problem is more guns!
All it would take is one extra official (perhaps the 4th has a camera in the tunnel?) taking a look simultaneous to VAR. If both agree to overturn, it’s done without the need for the ref to spend time at the monitor while if both agree the correct decision was made, we move on. If there’s a 1-to-1 split, then the ref has to be called to the monitor for the deciding “vote”.
Probably not the perfect system but they’re just ideas off the top of my head.
Then bring in the Rugby rule in which no-one challenges a decision, but the referee explains their interpretation of the law to the captain only. Any dissent is clamped down on.
That way we also overcome the crap that we know referees throughout the pyramid have to put up with. The quid pro quo is that referees have to be willing to explain their decision, as opposed to the silence and "don't talk to me" approach we have now...6 -
Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?1 -
If only. Would certainly be a more enjoyable watch if they got rid of it.SporadicAddick said:
Alternatively, F*ck VAR off and go back to how it used to work, when one persons interpretation of play worked better than two or three or four people's individual interpretation of the same incident trying to be implemented.Callumcafc said:
Nah - doing VAR this way with one referee is proving to be like holding a trial where the jury is made up of one deaf and blind bloke.Off_it said:
More refs reviewing the reviewers?Callumcafc said:Failing that, VAR by committee. One shocking ref can hopefully be overruled by two other refs with a pair of working eyes.
That's like saying the way to solve Americas gun problem is more guns!
All it would take is one extra official (perhaps the 4th has a camera in the tunnel?) taking a look simultaneous to VAR. If both agree to overturn, it’s done without the need for the ref to spend time at the monitor while if both agree the correct decision was made, we move on. If there’s a 1-to-1 split, then the ref has to be called to the monitor for the deciding “vote”.
Probably not the perfect system but they’re just ideas off the top of my head.
Then bring in the Rugby rule in which no-one challenges a decision, but the referee explains their interpretation of the law to the captain only. Any dissent is clamped down on.
That way we also overcome the crap that we know referees throughout the pyramid have to put up with. The quid pro quo is that referees have to be willing to explain their decision, as opposed to the silence and "don't talk to me" approach we have now...
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Any evidence they are better? Frankly I doubt it. It's really easy to criticise refs, but I think for the most part ours are pretty good (as are our lino's). Unfortunately they are undermined by the system in which they operate. So no objection in principle, I just don't think they are needed or would change anything.Callumcafc said:Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?
(Also, why would other top class leagues allow their best ref's to move (and why would a ref want to unless we started a transfer market in refs, at which point we've given too much focus to the roles of ref's in the game)).2 - Sponsored links:
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You don't watch much games in this country do you?SporadicAddick said:
Any evidence they are better? Frankly I doubt it. It's really easy to criticise refs, but I think for the most part ours are pretty good (as are our lino's). Unfortunately they are undermined by the system in which they operate. So no objection in principle, I just don't think they are needed or would change anything.Callumcafc said:Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?
(Also, why would other top class leagues allow their best ref's to move (and why would a ref want to unless we started a transfer market in refs, at which point we've given too much focus to the roles of ref's in the game)).
Some of the decision making by referees is genuinely baffling.0 -
"many" games...SELR_addicks said:
You don't watch much games in this country do you?SporadicAddick said:
Any evidence they are better? Frankly I doubt it. It's really easy to criticise refs, but I think for the most part ours are pretty good (as are our lino's). Unfortunately they are undermined by the system in which they operate. So no objection in principle, I just don't think they are needed or would change anything.Callumcafc said:Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?
(Also, why would other top class leagues allow their best ref's to move (and why would a ref want to unless we started a transfer market in refs, at which point we've given too much focus to the roles of ref's in the game)).
Some of the decision making by referees is genuinely baffling.
Yes I do watch plenty. Our ref's are very good. They make mistakes, but not as many as the players. They are massively undermined by 1. The system in which they operate, 2. The attitude towards them of players and club officials and 3. people like you.2 -
There are never any mistakes when European games are played in this country when refs from abroad are taking the games 😉1
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They're the best we have to offer but the standard is clearly lacking, given the amount of folks complaining about the poor decision making. Brighton alone have received six apologies from PGMOL since the turn of the year...SporadicAddick said:
Any evidence they are better? Frankly I doubt it. It's really easy to criticise refs, but I think for the most part ours are pretty good (as are our lino's). Unfortunately they are undermined by the system in which they operate. So no objection in principle, I just don't think they are needed or would change anything.Callumcafc said:Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?
(Also, why would other top class leagues allow their best ref's to move (and why would a ref want to unless we started a transfer market in refs, at which point we've given too much focus to the roles of ref's in the game)).
If you can find me some VAR decisions from the World Cup a few months back that were as egregious as those missed in the Premier League recently, I'll concede that there's no benefit in bringing in officials from around the world.
Ultimately it would be up to the individual if they wanted to move, not any particular league.
It's not being scrapped so we have to make the best of it. What's your suggestion to improve the system?0 -
I don't have one. It's applying interpretation in slow motion over interpretation in real time. Its interpretation at the end of the day. Go with the first real time decision unless its something that can be immediate such as hawk-eye / goal line...Callumcafc said:
They're the best we have to offer but the standard is clearly lacking, given the amount of folks complaining about the poor decision making. Brighton alone have received six apologies from PGMOL since the turn of the year...SporadicAddick said:
Any evidence they are better? Frankly I doubt it. It's really easy to criticise refs, but I think for the most part ours are pretty good (as are our lino's). Unfortunately they are undermined by the system in which they operate. So no objection in principle, I just don't think they are needed or would change anything.Callumcafc said:Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?
(Also, why would other top class leagues allow their best ref's to move (and why would a ref want to unless we started a transfer market in refs, at which point we've given too much focus to the roles of ref's in the game)).
If you can find me some VAR decisions from the World Cup a few months back that were as egregious as those missed in the Premier League recently, I'll concede that there's no benefit in bringing in officials from around the world.
Ultimately it would be up to the individual if they wanted to move, not any particular league.
It's not being scrapped so we have to make the best of it. What's your suggestion to improve the system?1 -
They make more game-changing mistakes each weekend than should be acceptable.SporadicAddick said:
"many" games...SELR_addicks said:
You don't watch much games in this country do you?SporadicAddick said:
Any evidence they are better? Frankly I doubt it. It's really easy to criticise refs, but I think for the most part ours are pretty good (as are our lino's). Unfortunately they are undermined by the system in which they operate. So no objection in principle, I just don't think they are needed or would change anything.Callumcafc said:Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?
(Also, why would other top class leagues allow their best ref's to move (and why would a ref want to unless we started a transfer market in refs, at which point we've given too much focus to the roles of ref's in the game)).
Some of the decision making by referees is genuinely baffling.
Yes I do watch plenty. Our ref's are very good. They make mistakes, but not as many as the players. They are massively undermined by 1. The system in which they operate, 2. The attitude towards them of players and club officials and 3. people like you.
The attitude towards them from fans does not affect their decision making and again it's pointing fingers in the wrong places. The referees aren't good enough, trying to hide them and pretend they're excellent is just denying reality.0 -
not really - I am the wrong demographic though for FIFA, The Premier League, UEFA - a stuck-in-the-mud traditionalist & I have no ill will against those who embrace the way the game is now - if I was back living in the UK I would probably be veering towards the non-league scene (especially if VAR is implemented at Championship, League One level)se9addick said:
Did you watch the World Cup?Oakster2 said:I haven't watched a Premier League game since VAR was introduced, just can't be bothered with it - I guess I am in a minority but it's just not football anymore for me0 -
Maybe they need to look at who the VAR referees are! Just because you can referee on grass may not mean you can referee on a TV screen. How about actually training younger people who are invested in TV screen work as referees who never put a foot on grass but are trained in refereeing and their skill is analysis on the TV screen with the knowledge they have gained in their referee training.Callumcafc said:Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. No other league is considering going backwards on this system - it’ll be damaging to the Premier League if they did it alone.
My suggestions aren’t perfect but they’re a start.
Any objections to getting officials from other countries involved?1 -
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Someone check his coupon!0
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I'm confident that a team of people off this site could manage VAR better than some of the 'professionals' that do it every week in the Premier league.1
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Penalties SHOULD be given in this instance. A push with the hands should always be a foul.KBslittlesis said:
If penalties were given for every time a hand was laid on a player in the box we’d have millions.guinnessaddick said:
It was soft, but it was a push.se9addick said:You should see the goal that was ruled out for Rangers in the first half yesterday, appalling.
I have no interest in Scottish football, it was on whilst I waited for the rugby to start.
There was no push at all.
Ridiculous decision.
There is no need to put your hands on an opponent. The only time I used to do so was to put a hand gently on an opponent's shoulder when marking from a corner. This allows a defender to both look elsewhere whilst being aware of the whereabouts of an opponent. I certainly never pushed or put my arms around anybody.
If such fouls are always punished and penalties given then the fouls will stop. If Rangers had a goal disallowed for that then it was the right decision.1 -
Surely either can or you can't? Otherwise you create even more complexity...jimmymelrose said:
Penalties SHOULD be given in this instance. A push with the hands should always be a foul.KBslittlesis said:
If penalties were given for every time a hand was laid on a player in the box we’d have millions.guinnessaddick said:
It was soft, but it was a push.se9addick said:You should see the goal that was ruled out for Rangers in the first half yesterday, appalling.
I have no interest in Scottish football, it was on whilst I waited for the rugby to start.
There was no push at all.
Ridiculous decision.
There is no need to put your hands on an opponent. The only time I used to do so was to put a hand gently on an opponent's shoulder when marking from a corner. This allows a defender to both look elsewhere whilst being aware of the whereabouts of an opponent. I certainly never pushed or put my arms around anybody.
If such fouls are always punished and penalties given then the fouls will stop. If Rangers had a goal disallowed for that then it was the right decision.0 -
The difficulty is working out the offender, as often both sides are at it.0
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What happens when a referee is stood down from VAR officiating? Do they get extra training or do they have to sit in front of a screen for hours or does he just have a couple of days off?0
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Fantastic analysis of VAR on Monday Night Football with Howard Webb in the studio.Worth a watch if you’ve missed it tonight.1
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Really enjoyed it.
Why FIFA won’t allow the on field discussions between the ref and the VAR to be heard live is baffling though, especially as they already do in rugby and cricket.0 -
How difficult is it to release the audio after each game?
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Apparently there was a whole 30 minute program with Howard Webb on BT where three went through five or six incidents in a row - including one they got wrong.
Watched it last night and found it fascinating.1
