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Another Shooting In America?
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Culture around guns is the key issue. I've just moved to Sweden. My next door neighbour has a gun, for hunting. She hunts moose, wild boar and deer for food. As a vegetarian I couldn't bring myself to do such a thing, but I'd rather this way of the lights going out (in a forest or clearing) than lined up in an abattoir.
Many Swedes hunt and have access to guns, but I don't think they have the culture of mass shootings.
Why the US has so many massacres is a mystery to me. My Swedish wife lived in LA for 7 years, including during the Rodney King riots. It was always a dangerous place and she said that you just have to be switched on.
Despite the violence, she found Americans to be very friendly people that were generally kind, honest, hard working folk, who don't support this mindset of violence. It doesn't take too many idiots to create a bad reputation.
The gun lobby is not going to give up the right to bear arms without a fight, literally!1 -
They are never gonna ban them, but it is the open carry states that amaze me. Walking to the local deli with an automatic weapon slung across your shoulders?1
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I'm curious as to when she lived here. I grew up in LA and I'll be honest, I don't think I ever saw a gun. Now, some of that is where I lived, socio-economic aspects, etc. Contrast that with my girlfriend who grew up in rural Kansas, and I suspect she didn't know anyone who didn't have a gun. And to be fair, put there there are practical uses for owning a gun, particularly if you raise livestock.The Prince-e-Paul said:Culture around guns is the key issue. I've just moved to Sweden. My next door neighbour has a gun, for hunting. She hunts moose, wild boar and deer for food. As a vegetarian I couldn't bring myself to do such a thing, but I'd rather this way of the lights going out (in a forest or clearing) than lined up in an abattoir.
Many Swedes hunt and have access to guns, but I don't think they have the culture of mass shootings.
Why the US has so many massacres is a mystery to me. My Swedish wife lived in LA for 7 years, including during the Rodney King riots. It was always a dangerous place and she said that you just have to be switched on.
Despite the violence, she found Americans to be very friendly people that were generally kind, honest, hard working folk, who don't support this mindset of violence. It doesn't take too many idiots to create a bad reputation.
The gun lobby is not going to give up the right to bear arms without a fight, literally!
Also, your wife's timing is interesting because I'm guessing it came around/during the Brady Bill, which I think ran from '94-'04 (don't quote me on that, yes I could Google it, I'm lazy).
It was actually named after Ronald Reagan's Press Secretary who was shot when Reagan was shot. It mandated background checks in most cases (not gun shows, which is how Columbine happened, well that and a failure of Law Enforcement), and banned the sale of assault weapons. And guess what? It worked!
The problem is, the W Bush Administration let it lapse after 10 years, and predictably, mass shootings have skyrocketed since.
The Brady Bill was also something of a touch point in the culture war surrounding guns, and since then, gun control has been made impossible at the national level. It also furtjer radicalized the White Nationalist "Patriot Movement" of the 90s, OK which Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was a part.0 -
I still can't get over the fact that a dozen or so people armed with the AR-15 that was used in the Dallas outlet mall shooting, could have single handedly won the civil war. It was written in the 1780s ffs.
Clinging on to a constitution which is a snapshot in time, when the world around it is constantly changing.
I hate things that refuse to evolve, religion and the US Constitution are probably the two key main guilty parties in this. They move, but at a glacial pace.
That's not to say that old things can't be a fantastic foundation to a society (Magna Carta etc)... I wonder what the original signatories would think of the America that they have created in relation to guns...3 -
As a 90s kid growing up on a diet of American media, I thought the USA was the coolest place to live in the world. As an adult I cant imagine moving over there now with the poor healthcare system, work benefits, and...well...guns.6
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I agree with gun control. I disagree with eradication of firearms0
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It's worrying that even the gun controls that exist are being eroded, as exemplified by the article below from the New York Times on 11 May (behind a paywall I'm afraid).
Judge in Virginia Strikes Down Federal Limit on Age of Handgun Buyers
'A federal judge in Richmond, Va., ruled that laws limiting the age of handgun purchasers were “not consistent with our nation’s history and tradition.”
https://nyti.ms/3nNDLT5?smid=nytcore-android-share
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Very thoughtful postHuskaris said:I still can't get over the fact that a dozen or so people armed with the AR-15 that was used in the Dallas outlet mall shooting, could have single handedly won the civil war. It was written in the 1780s ffs.
Clinging on to a constitution which is a snapshot in time, when the world around it is constantly changing.
I hate things that refuse to evolve, religion and the US Constitution are probably the two key main guilty parties in this. They move, but at a glacial pace.
That's not to say that old things can't be a fantastic foundation to a society (Magna Carta etc)... I wonder what the original signatories would think of the America that they have created in relation to guns...0 -
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Whilst gun crime here in the UK is low I suspect that is because a) guns themselves are illegal but also b) they are very hard to come by and us being n island must surely help with that.. makes articles like this all the more concerning...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-656563050 - Sponsored links:
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Buying a gun in England is a lot easier than you may think.
Personally I have never owned one nor do I ever intend to
But if I was that way inclined getting hold of one is easy.1 -
My engineer and his wife are gun fanatics, and he told me last year, he used to have a vetting carried out usually by a police sergeant and above, before he could renew his licence, now he sends it off and someone nominated by the authority checks it out and signs him off.blackpool72 said:Buying a gun in England is a lot easier than you may think.
Personally I have never owned one nor do I ever intend to
But if I was that way inclined getting hold of one is easy.
he said it used to take weeks now it takes days to be done.0 -
Gun ownership in the U.K. is still minuscule compared to the USA. The guns here are almost entirely held by criminals or by gun owners that hold a licence to do so. I can’t walk into B&Q and by an automatic weapon but sadly the same cannot be said for large parts of the USA. Gun crime in the U.K. is predominantly within the criminal fraternity. A pre pubescent or depressed teen living in the U.K. is very unlikely to be able to lay their hands on a semi automatic gun. That’s why shooting are an everyday event in the States but as rare as hens teeth here.2
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Semi automatic is just a single trigger pull at a time gun, problem is the U.S allows mods that turn semi auto into auto, like bump stocks etc.
The general public in the U.S I feel need the access to guns they do have because of how easily criminals obtain them.
It's a weird spot as with all the stabbings here, it's only time before people start calling for better ways to protect themselves and their families.0 -
I don’t think I know anyone calling for better ways to protect their families, other than the usual nine iron or baseball bat under the bed.Dazzler21 said:Semi automatic is just a single trigger pull at a time gun, problem is the U.S allows mods that turn semi auto into auto, like bump stocks etc.
The general public in the U.S I feel need the access to guns they do have because of how easily criminals obtain them.
It's a weird spot as with all the stabbings here, it's only time before people start calling for better ways to protect themselves and their families.1 -
Dazzler21 said:Semi automatic is just a single trigger pull at a time gun, problem is the U.S allows mods that turn semi auto into auto, like bump stocks etc.
The general public in the U.S I feel need the access to guns they do have because of how easily criminals obtain them.
It's a weird spot as with all the stabbings here, it's only time before people start calling for better ways to protect themselves and their families.I don't think so.knife crime rarely touches 'ordinary' people. It's usually gang related, domestic or honour killings.4 -
I dunno about that. Almost every time some poor young fella loses his life after being stabbed you hear his family on the telly going on about how he was a good boy, loved his mum and wasn't in a gang of any description.Baldybonce said:Dazzler21 said:Semi automatic is just a single trigger pull at a time gun, problem is the U.S allows mods that turn semi auto into auto, like bump stocks etc.
The general public in the U.S I feel need the access to guns they do have because of how easily criminals obtain them.
It's a weird spot as with all the stabbings here, it's only time before people start calling for better ways to protect themselves and their families.I don't think so.knife crime rarely touches 'ordinary' people. It's usually gang related, domestic or honour killings.
Seems to me that being in a gang is the safest place to be as those guys never seem to get stabbed.4 -
I think Blackpool was referring to getting hold of a gun without a license or paperwork, the type with the serial number filed offChippycafc said:
My engineer and his wife are gun fanatics, and he told me last year, he used to have a vetting carried out usually by a police sergeant and above, before he could renew his licence, now he sends it off and someone nominated by the authority checks it out and signs him off.blackpool72 said:Buying a gun in England is a lot easier than you may think.
Personally I have never owned one nor do I ever intend to
But if I was that way inclined getting hold of one is easy.
he said it used to take weeks now it takes days to be done.2 -
Yes mate.eaststandmike said:
I think Blackpool was referring to getting hold of a gun without a license or paperwork, the type with the serial number filed offChippycafc said:
My engineer and his wife are gun fanatics, and he told me last year, he used to have a vetting carried out usually by a police sergeant and above, before he could renew his licence, now he sends it off and someone nominated by the authority checks it out and signs him off.blackpool72 said:Buying a gun in England is a lot easier than you may think.
Personally I have never owned one nor do I ever intend to
But if I was that way inclined getting hold of one is easy.
he said it used to take weeks now it takes days to be done.1 - Sponsored links:
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The point i was making was in support of Blacks by stating the vetting procedures for gun owners has got lax too.eaststandmike said:
I think Blackpool was referring to getting hold of a gun without a license or paperwork, the type with the serial number filed offChippycafc said:
My engineer and his wife are gun fanatics, and he told me last year, he used to have a vetting carried out usually by a police sergeant and above, before he could renew his licence, now he sends it off and someone nominated by the authority checks it out and signs him off.blackpool72 said:Buying a gun in England is a lot easier than you may think.
Personally I have never owned one nor do I ever intend to
But if I was that way inclined getting hold of one is easy.
he said it used to take weeks now it takes days to be done.2 -
I’ve certainly read that checks are not as stringent as they were relatively recently. That’s to me a concern and one about the police not having the resources to carry out the proper checks, but there still isn’t a demand for ordinary people buying guns. Those who need to renew licenses for guns are those in gun / shooting clubs and farmers. I can’t believe there are more than a handful of “ordinary “ people in the U.K. who look to have a gun at home to protect their family.Chippycafc said:
The point i was making was in support of Blacks by stating the vetting procedures for gun owners has got lax too.eaststandmike said:
I think Blackpool was referring to getting hold of a gun without a license or paperwork, the type with the serial number filed offChippycafc said:
My engineer and his wife are gun fanatics, and he told me last year, he used to have a vetting carried out usually by a police sergeant and above, before he could renew his licence, now he sends it off and someone nominated by the authority checks it out and signs him off.blackpool72 said:Buying a gun in England is a lot easier than you may think.
Personally I have never owned one nor do I ever intend to
But if I was that way inclined getting hold of one is easy.
he said it used to take weeks now it takes days to be done.0 -
The checks are now carried out every 5 years they used to be 3. And yes he is a member of two gun clubs, He got vetted last year when someone rang him up and had a chat over the phone from Milton Keynes. It does help his wife works for the police and he is vetted to the highest security standard.1
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Philadelphia shooting: Suspect charged with killing five - BBC News
Also saw that there was another mass shooting in Baltimore last weekend.0 -
It seems there is a new case each month being updated on here! Truly shocking!1
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If only people had more guns out there, that would solve the problem.2
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I know your only joking, in Tel Aviv at the weekend however a Palestinian was shot by an armed civilian after driving into a crowd of people in a busy shopping street. No I'm not saying everyone should be armed but in that case it probably saved life's.DaveMehmet said:If only people had more guns out there, that would solve the problem.0 -
It is definitely also a cultural thing and what people view guns as being for.HastingsRed said:
I know your only joking, in Tel Aviv at the weekend however a Palestinian was shot by an armed civilian after driving into a crowd of people in a busy shopping street. No I'm not saying everyone should be armed but in that case it probably saved life's.DaveMehmet said:If only people had more guns out there, that would solve the problem.
America has the highest civilian count of guns, at a staggering 1.2 guns per civilian.
Second place for context is the Falkland Islands at 62.1
Canada, the civilised cousins of the Americans, 34.7.
You just don't hear of the same level of violence per capita in these places. The murder rate in the USA is 23 times higher than Canada.
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Huskaris said:
It is definitely also a cultural thing and what people view guns as being for.HastingsRed said:
I know your only joking, in Tel Aviv at the weekend however a Palestinian was shot by an armed civilian after driving into a crowd of people in a busy shopping street. No I'm not saying everyone should be armed but in that case it probably saved life's.DaveMehmet said:If only people had more guns out there, that would solve the problem.
America has the highest civilian count of guns, at a staggering 1.2 guns per civilian.
Second place for context is the Falkland Islands at 62.1
Canada, the civilised cousins of the Americans, 34.7.
You just don't hear of the same level of violence per capita in these places. The murder rate in the USA is 23 times higher than Canada.
62 guns per civilian seems quite a lot for the Falklands0 -
Ready for a bit of argy-bargy?Chizz said:Huskaris said:
It is definitely also a cultural thing and what people view guns as being for.HastingsRed said:
I know your only joking, in Tel Aviv at the weekend however a Palestinian was shot by an armed civilian after driving into a crowd of people in a busy shopping street. No I'm not saying everyone should be armed but in that case it probably saved life's.DaveMehmet said:If only people had more guns out there, that would solve the problem.
America has the highest civilian count of guns, at a staggering 1.2 guns per civilian.
Second place for context is the Falkland Islands at 62.1
Canada, the civilised cousins of the Americans, 34.7.
You just don't hear of the same level of violence per capita in these places. The murder rate in the USA is 23 times higher than Canada.
62 guns per civilian seems quite a lot for the Falklands1
This discussion has been closed.
