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England 🏴 v 🇸🇰 Slovakia
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Nations according to a Fifa report from 2023 with the most professional footballers in the world:soapboxsam said:charltonkeston said:
No whoosh intended. To take it to another extreme would you expect San Marino to be able to pick 26 capable players or even Scotland with about 4 million to pick from?ForeverAddickted said:
Yeah but you still only need 26-players...charltonkeston said:
We should have a bigger pool of better players to pick from. There are exceptions but the countries with large population do win more. Brazil, Germany, France, Italy, Spain Argentina.ForeverAddickted said:
Are you being serious lol!... thinking the overall population has an impact on the game?Southbank said:We have really struggled to beat 2 countries with populations of 6 million. Next we are playing a country with a population of 8 million and have to beat them. Is there anything that suggests we can improve enough to contest a big country if we ever get to play them, Germany, Spain or France? Because I have seen nothing to suggest we will.
I mean going by the World Population; Spain - Argentina are 33rd and 34th respectively. Sorry I cant think of a more terrible take, its genuinely laughable
What about the difference between males / females in those figures? - Age brackets?
Am actually hoping I'm being whooshed!!
If you had said where football is the number 1 sport then the size of the population does count.
Indian probably have less pro footballers than Iceland.
The countries with the largest amount of footballers with a gateway from kids, academy to semi pro to professional footballers should in theory produce the goods but football isn't an exact science.
1. Mexico - 9,464
2. Spain - 8,560
3. England - 5,582
4. Scotland - 4,796
5. Turkey - 3,917
https://nostrabet.com/en/news/top-5-countries-with-most-professional-soccer-players-in-2023/
Based purely on the amount of professional players they have Scotland underperform massively.4 -
Still fully expecting the Swiss to tear us a new one.
Our back line hasn't been thoroughly tested yet. That will all change with the swiss...and there's talk of Saka playing left back!0 -
Buzzing this morning, we are absolute dog shit for most of the game but we won. This has got a feeling of Greece and Portugal about it. Showed great character to score two goals in two minutes, I couldn’t care less about the opposition.
With the injury and suspension I hope it reverts to a back 3. Saka can definitely do a job in that left role and gives us balance.16 -
I agree, it would be disappointing as all failures are, but it wouldn't be Iceland levels of disappointing. Slovakia felt like it was in danger of becoming that, and having Southgate lumped in with the manager who took us to a second place group finish behind Wales and an atrocious exit against Iceland in his last Euros, and failed to get us out of our group, or even a win, at the World Cup would have been a really sad and unfair legacy for him.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
The pre-tournament expectation for this group of players was that we were one of the favourites to win it, and i think most people felt we should be reaching the semi finals as a minimum. So going out in the quarters to Switzerland would (to me anyway) also be a horrible note to end on, especially given how much our half of the draw has opened up.Garrymanilow said:What I found really interesting yesterday was things looked so bleak at some points that the pundits started to turn a bit at half time, more in the direction of the manager than they have in the past, and even the commentary had a few increasing pops at Southgate for not using enough subs. Normally they're all critical of poor performances and allude to a wider issue but keep away from openly criticising Southgate but I guess they felt this was final enough that they could be clearer. Hopefully that's a good thing, he definitely has retreated into a bit of a bunker with his selections and we need the positivity back.
People will laugh but at the seconds ticked away last night my main thought was how sad it was that this was how the Southgate era would end. Good players on the pitch failing to beat a pretty poor team and the fans booing and turning on the setup. Exactly what things were like before Southgate came in and exactly what he did so much work to eradicate. Whether you like Southgate or dislike him for his defensiveness and aversion to risk he's definitely had a hugely positive impact on our overall relationship with the national team and I was sad he was going to end up getting chased out as yet another England manager who slipped on a banana peel. Switzerland is still to come but they're a decent side and we've made it to the quarters at least and have a chance of getting further still. Going out in the last 16 against Slovakia would have been a horrible note to end on.
Pre-tournament if you'd been offered a potential route to the final of Slovakia - Switzerland - Austria then no disrespect to those nations, everyone would've taken that and got ready for 14 July.
I don't really pay much attention to favourite tags and part of the reason is because of how a team like Switzerland gets looked at. They've been a decent side for a while; in World Cup 22 they got to the last 16 after finishing level on points with Brazil in their group, in Euro 20 they knocked France out on pens after coming back from 3-1 down at 75 minutes and then had to be put down on penalties by Spain after a 1-1 draw in the quarters. They've only got better since then with players like Akanji, Schar and Vargas really hitting their stride. With the way things have gone this tournament I'd honestly rather have been playing Italy, Netherlands or Belgium in the next rounds than Switzerland and Austria. We still should be looking to take advantage of our much greater quality of player but the Swiss were desperately unlucky not to beat Germany in their group game and turned Italy over last match, it wasn't some plucky smash and grab. They're a good side in good form.0 -
Yup, Greece, Portugal, Denmark.... all stunk it up and won - I'd take that than glory football and losing gallantly..... BUT..... it is inexplicable how Southgate can't see that moving Bellingham back and pushing Foden to 10 gives everybody a better chance of actually effecting the game properly.ValleyGary said:Buzzing this morning, we are absolute dog shit for most of the game but we won. This has got a feeling of Greece and Portugal about it. Showed great character to score two goals in two minutes, I couldn’t care less about the opposition.
With the injury and suspension I hope it reverts to a back 3. Saka can definitely do a job in that left role and gives us balance.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Konsa
Palmer
Rice
Bellingham
Mainoo
Saka
Foden
Kane
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I was surprised when Toney and not Watkins came on, BUT as we all now know he was instrumental in Kane's goal .. In retrospect Southgate's idea was to bring some physicality against a tough defence .. look at Toney's record (ignore the betting), for the last few years he has been a consistent scorer and has made the transition to the Premier league at Brentford, one of the very few clubs Premier I suggest prepared to give him a chance, can't imagine Chelsea or Man U (both obsessed with signing foreigners) giving him that chance2
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Really?Mendonca In Asdas said:
Neither did i!MrOneLung said:Toney didn't appear to celebrate when Kane scored
No matter how poor we’d been I was up on my feet. Same as I am for Charlton getting a late winner.It keeps the hope that we might start performing, no matter how forlorn that hope might be. Would much rather be in a tournament than out of it.6 -
I have a feeling that managing to sneak a win yesterday will be seen by Southgate as justification of his tactics and we will get much of the same against the Swiss which everyone but him will know is likely to mean the end of our competition. It is just ridiculous that the squad and management keep towing the line of "it was a great performance and win against tough opposition" straight out of the Appleton post match book of shite ! He is without doubt the luckiest Manager ever in international football in terms of the way draws keep going his way, he manages to edge past teams that should be no problem and loses to the 1st decent team he faces. The bloke has zero tactical awareness, is plain stubborn, rabbit in the headlights springs to mind !4
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If you were going to play that formation then why would you put Palmer as a wing back instead of Trent? And Foden up front instead of a natural striker?supaclive said:
Yup, Greece, Portugal, Denmark.... all stunk it up and won - I'd take that than glory football and losing gallantly..... BUT..... it is inexplicable how Southgate can't see that moving Bellingham back and pushing Foden to 10 gives everybody a better chance of actually effecting the game properly.ValleyGary said:Buzzing this morning, we are absolute dog shit for most of the game but we won. This has got a feeling of Greece and Portugal about it. Showed great character to score two goals in two minutes, I couldn’t care less about the opposition.
With the injury and suspension I hope it reverts to a back 3. Saka can definitely do a job in that left role and gives us balance.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Konsa
Palmer
Rice
Bellingham
Mainoo
Saka
Foden
Kane
Personally i think the solution is much simpler given that Southgate clearly isn't going to drop Bellingham further back. Foden, Saka, Trippier, Guehi out, Gordon, Palmer, Gomez, Konsa in.
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Annoyingly the time for a real change was probably the Slovenia game. We'd qualified, it was a free hit of sorts to try something more drastic and see if it would fix the issues of the first two games.
I said then I'd go 352 with Saka & Alexander-Arnold wing backs, and Watkins with Kane to allow Kane to drop deeper as he has been but have Watkins too to stretch the defence.
The worry now in any new formation is that if the players don't take to it quickly we could be out.
Admittedly carrying on with what we've been doing will also lead to us being out!
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I'd given up when it went into the 90th minute and when Toney came on in the 92nd, the mix of anger/amusement (has he only just seen we need a goal?) was huge. But it somehow worked, and the bar went wild. A lot of banter about Southgate's great management when the 90 minute whistle went, and again when kane hit the winner.
But he had the entire second half to shake it up and did the minimum possible. So while I'm happy we have another game on saturday, I'm going to call it dumb luck. He may well hit a plan that sees us go all the way, but that change was an outlier which he would probably happily forget.5 -
It's frustrating that he's never once tried shifting Bellingham to 8 and Foden to 10 during the game, with Gordon on the left, when in all 4 games he's substituted one of the midfielders (Trent, Gallagher, Mainoo), just to give it a go.0
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Only one is Stones, his post-match interview last night was spot on.killerandflash said:The chippiness of the England players is starting to irritate me. They seem genuinely surprised and disappointed that the pundits and fans aren't happy with the football England have played in this tournament.0 -
We then also just totally sat back for the rest of extra time instead of looking to put the game to bed. All the initiative and momentum was with us, they'd made most of their subs and still we just sat on the lead inviting pressure. Southgate is never going to change so we just have to see how far it takes us.ken_shabby said:I'd given up when it went into the 90th minute and when Toney came on in the 92nd, the mix of anger/amusement (has he only just seen we need a goal?) was huge. But it somehow worked, and the bar went wild. A lot of banter about Southgate's great management when the 90 minute whistle went, and again when kane hit the winner.
But he had the entire second half to shake it up and did the minimum possible. So while I'm happy we have another game on saturday, I'm going to call it dumb luck. He may well hit a plan that sees us go all the way, but that change was an outlier which he would probably happily forget.3 -
We have been bang average and Southgate and his team should expect criticism. In saying that when we got over the line I expected Neville and Wright to have been more upbeat as Keane was.
You can be critical band supportive at the same time.
Those two miserable sods could make your beer go flat just by staring at it.
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Keane was more upbeat because he's probably sat there thinking 'these fuckers won't go much further playing like this'pettgra said:We have been bang average and Southgate and his team should expect criticism. In saying that when we got over the line I expected Neville and Wright to have been more upbeat as Keane was.
You can be critical band supportive at the same time.
Those two miserable sods could make your beer go flat just by staring at it.1 -
Well, he HAS to make changes now because of injury and suspension. Maybe, just maybe, he might stumble on the right personnel/formation and we can all then have a good look at ourselves for even daring to question the great man's genius when we lift the trophy.
Fingers crossed.0 -
I must admit, he did have a smirk on his face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Keane was more upbeat because he's probably sat there thinking 'these fuckers won't go much further playing like this'pettgra said:We have been bang average and Southgate and his team should expect criticism. In saying that when we got over the line I expected Neville and Wright to have been more upbeat as Keane was.
You can be critical band supportive at the same time.
Those two miserable sods could make your beer go flat just by staring at it.0 -
I know, I've seen the film. Any fireworks yet?Lincsaddick said:
lots of flag flying cars round Grimsby way, this is a very patriotic (English) areaStig said:I know what this team is missing; it's England flags on cars. There are usually loads, but I haven't seen any this tournament. What's going on? Was it just a fad that's run it's course? Are people worried that they'd be misidentified as Farridge Fans? Or, is there just not the level of excitement about this team?2 -
Apparently:Stig said:
I know, I've seen the film. Any fireworks yet?Lincsaddick said:
lots of flag flying cars round Grimsby way, this is a very patriotic (English) areaStig said:I know what this team is missing; it's England flags on cars. There are usually loads, but I haven't seen any this tournament. What's going on? Was it just a fad that's run it's course? Are people worried that they'd be misidentified as Farridge Fans? Or, is there just not the level of excitement about this team?
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Extra time summed up Southgate's management style. Take the lead, then sit back, rather than going for a 3rd to kill the game off, which is what Spain did.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
We then also just totally sat back for the rest of extra time instead of looking to put the game to bed. All the initiative and momentum was with us, they'd made most of their subs and still we just sat on the lead inviting pressure. Southgate is never going to change so we just have to see how far it takes us.ken_shabby said:I'd given up when it went into the 90th minute and when Toney came on in the 92nd, the mix of anger/amusement (has he only just seen we need a goal?) was huge. But it somehow worked, and the bar went wild. A lot of banter about Southgate's great management when the 90 minute whistle went, and again when kane hit the winner.
But he had the entire second half to shake it up and did the minimum possible. So while I'm happy we have another game on saturday, I'm going to call it dumb luck. He may well hit a plan that sees us go all the way, but that change was an outlier which he would probably happily forget.
I think Southgate would be much happier managing a smaller country or team, with hard working but limited players, and organising them play smash and grab tactics, where you nick a goal from a set piece then stifle the game.3 -
Was in the toilet when Bellingham scored. Could tell from the roar that we'd equalised, and the guy next to me grabbed me and started celebrating with me! We'd both finished our business thankfully.
One of the stranger goal memories I'll keep21 -
No other sport comes close to football for evoking mental emotionsChunes said:Was in the toilet when Bellingham scored. Could tell from the roar that we'd equalised, and the guy next to me grabbed me and started celebrating with me! We'd both finished our business thankfully.
One of the stranger goal memories I'll keep2 -
Aww... Love a happy endingChunes said:Was in the toilet when Bellingham scored. Could tell from the roar that we'd equalised, and the guy next to me grabbed me and started celebrating with me! We'd both finished our business thankfully.
One of the stranger goal memories I'll keep19 -
I don't think that will be the case. Surely even he must see how his job was saved at the end by a goal that didn't look like it was particularly forthcoming.AndyG said:I have a feeling that managing to sneak a win yesterday will be seen by Southgate as justification of his tactics and we will get much of the same against the Swiss which everyone but him will know is likely to mean the end of our competition. It is just ridiculous that the squad and management keep towing the line of "it was a great performance and win against tough opposition" straight out of the Appleton post match book of shite ! He is without doubt the luckiest Manager ever in international football in terms of the way draws keep going his way, he manages to edge past teams that should be no problem and loses to the 1st decent team he faces. The bloke has zero tactical awareness, is plain stubborn, rabbit in the headlights springs to mind !
If he starts the same line-up against Switzerland in the same set-up we get battered.0 -
What were you doing in the khazi in the last minutes of the game? (And I don't mean "number 2")Chunes said:Was in the toilet when Bellingham scored. Could tell from the roar that we'd equalised, and the guy next to me grabbed me and started celebrating with me! We'd both finished our business thankfully.
One of the stranger goal memories I'll keep
Or had you already resigned yourself to the fact we'd lost and thought you'd get in early before the rush?
When they showed the pundits in the studio as the goal went in I couldn't believe that Ian Wright wasn't watching and had his back to the screen. It's his job to watch the game ffs!0 -
I would play Palmer and Saka as wing backs who can attack rather than defend first and foremost and play in their half, with pace and urgency. I wouldn't play them both as wing backs against Spain, but Switzerland... yesChris_from_Sidcup said:
If you were going to play that formation then why would you put Palmer as a wing back instead of Trent? And Foden up front instead of a natural striker?supaclive said:
Yup, Greece, Portugal, Denmark.... all stunk it up and won - I'd take that than glory football and losing gallantly..... BUT..... it is inexplicable how Southgate can't see that moving Bellingham back and pushing Foden to 10 gives everybody a better chance of actually effecting the game properly.ValleyGary said:Buzzing this morning, we are absolute dog shit for most of the game but we won. This has got a feeling of Greece and Portugal about it. Showed great character to score two goals in two minutes, I couldn’t care less about the opposition.
With the injury and suspension I hope it reverts to a back 3. Saka can definitely do a job in that left role and gives us balance.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Konsa
Palmer
Rice
Bellingham
Mainoo
Saka
Foden
Kane
Personally i think the solution is much simpler given that Southgate clearly isn't going to drop Bellingham further back. Foden, Saka, Trippier, Guehi out, Gordon, Palmer, Gomez, Konsa in.
And Foden would still be a "10" like Deli Ali was with Kane.... so him and Bellingham are able to interchange more easily whilst killing our width. Nobody has got close enough to Kane, highlighted by the fact that in the group games Bellingham had only passed to Kane TWICE0 -
I have tickets to the quarter final in Dusseldorf on Saturday so had completely resigned myself to the fact that I would be going to see Slovakia v Switzerland.
When Bellingham scored I went fucking mental.
Still though, very worried about what we will see next Saturday... And then there's the football!
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Totally this. Spain have a very young team, but they play with a flair and a desire to get forward and score that is frightening. None of the ponderous 1 pass forward/3 passes back that England delight in. Our best moments against Slovakia came when we were taking people on, and passing into space behind their defence. Some of the worst were in the second half of extra time where Slovakia knew we weren't serious about going forward and kept robbing us in the middle of the pitch. having just watch Slovakia lose the game by attempting to defend ultra deep, it was infuriating that we tried the same old technique which offesr no out-ball but considerable risk as the entire game ends up being played in our half.killerandflash said:
Extra time summed up Southgate's management style. Take the lead, then sit back, rather than going for a 3rd to kill the game off, which is what Spain did.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
We then also just totally sat back for the rest of extra time instead of looking to put the game to bed. All the initiative and momentum was with us, they'd made most of their subs and still we just sat on the lead inviting pressure. Southgate is never going to change so we just have to see how far it takes us.ken_shabby said:I'd given up when it went into the 90th minute and when Toney came on in the 92nd, the mix of anger/amusement (has he only just seen we need a goal?) was huge. But it somehow worked, and the bar went wild. A lot of banter about Southgate's great management when the 90 minute whistle went, and again when kane hit the winner.
But he had the entire second half to shake it up and did the minimum possible. So while I'm happy we have another game on saturday, I'm going to call it dumb luck. He may well hit a plan that sees us go all the way, but that change was an outlier which he would probably happily forget.
I think Southgate would be much happier managing a smaller country or team, with hard working but limited players, and organising them play smash and grab tactics, where you nick a goal from a set piece then stifle the game.
I'm not worried about Spain yet - we have to get past a talented Swiss team first, but someone really needs to pick up Southgate and give him a good shake until he realises you can win games by scoring more than one goal.1 -
Palmer has never played wing back in his career and he's also left footed and loves to cut in. I've always felt that our surge of talented wingers has had us change our shape for the worse, I like the 352 with Walker as recovery pace at RCB, but putting Palmer in a role he's never played - he's played there less than Raheem Sterling of all people has - where he's supposed to keep the width would be a hell of a choice. Also, some of the biggest threats from Switzerland come from their talented wide players, putting two wingers in at wingback would be just inviting them to have a free run at our defence. I'd be nervous of Alexander-Arnold up against Vargas, rather Trippier there if he's fit, but definitely not playing an inverted winger/10 at right wingback.supaclive said:
I would play Palmer and Saka as wing backs who can attack rather than defend first and foremost and play in their half, with pace and urgency. I wouldn't play them both as wing backs against Spain, but Switzerland... yesChris_from_Sidcup said:
If you were going to play that formation then why would you put Palmer as a wing back instead of Trent? And Foden up front instead of a natural striker?supaclive said:
Yup, Greece, Portugal, Denmark.... all stunk it up and won - I'd take that than glory football and losing gallantly..... BUT..... it is inexplicable how Southgate can't see that moving Bellingham back and pushing Foden to 10 gives everybody a better chance of actually effecting the game properly.ValleyGary said:Buzzing this morning, we are absolute dog shit for most of the game but we won. This has got a feeling of Greece and Portugal about it. Showed great character to score two goals in two minutes, I couldn’t care less about the opposition.
With the injury and suspension I hope it reverts to a back 3. Saka can definitely do a job in that left role and gives us balance.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Konsa
Palmer
Rice
Bellingham
Mainoo
Saka
Foden
Kane
Personally i think the solution is much simpler given that Southgate clearly isn't going to drop Bellingham further back. Foden, Saka, Trippier, Guehi out, Gordon, Palmer, Gomez, Konsa in.
And Foden would still be a "10" like Deli Ali was with Kane.... so him and Bellingham are able to interchange more easily whilst killing our width. Nobody has got close enough to Kane, highlighted by the fact that in the group games Bellingham had only passed to Kane TWICE2
