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England v Spain: Euro 2024 Final, 14 July
Comments
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carly burn said:Heard a lot of talk about lethargy in the squad.
Couple of stats to maybe back that up.
Firstly, out of the 12 players that have played the most minutes in the whole tournament prior to the final, 7 were from England.
Also in the last 6 major tournaments w/c and euros the team that played their semi final first went onto win in the final.
If this is factual Carly burn and I believe you, then both Semi finals should be on the same day with a 5 pm and 8 pm KO or a 3 hour gap whatever time they KO.
Still can't understand why Gareth didn't use his 5 subs earlier as so many of the midfielders were struggling plus Shaw needed to come off after 70 mins as was flagging after being our best player 1st half.
Spain were better and had a good simple game plan to attack down the flanks and also between the lines which they did often in the 2nd half when it was 45 minutes too long for so many of our team who have given everything to the cause despite never looking convincing or fluid.
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I was watching on itv and before Spain scored their second they said Gallagher and Trippier were about to come on then said nope they’ve gone and sat back down.soapboxsam said:carly burn said:Heard a lot of talk about lethargy in the squad.
Couple of stats to maybe back that up.
Firstly, out of the 12 players that have played the most minutes in the whole tournament prior to the final, 7 were from England.
Also in the last 6 major tournaments w/c and euros the team that played their semi final first went onto win in the final.
If this is factual Carly burn and I believe you, then both Semi finals should be on the same day with a 5 pm and 8 pm KO or a 3 hour gap whatever time they KO.
Still can't understand why Gareth didn't use his 5 subs earlier as so many of the midfielders were struggling plus Shaw needed to come off after 70 mins as was flagging after being our best player 1st half.
Spain were better and had a good simple game plan to attack down the flanks and also between the lines which they did often in the 2nd half when it was 45 minutes too long for so many of our team who have given everything to the cause despite never looking convincing or fluid.
england definitely looked like they needed shoring up but I think Nigel wanted to save them for extra time, which proved to be a mistake2 -
No Garrymanilow said:People talk about how England should be able to play fast attacking football but any team that does that effectively does so with control of the midfield. That's our problem, for all the brilliant, quick wingers and attacking midfielders we've brought through in recent years we're still unable to produce a midfielder who can control a game. Bellingham isn't it, he's all silky dragbacks and beating his man with skill and not much else. Rice grew into a different player than we'd thought, instead of being a midfield pivot he's a box to box player who is best driving with the ball at his feet. Mainoo had a good tournament overall but he was totally out of his depth last night and was a passenger in a team that didn't see much of the ball. Gallagher is a terrier but he's reactive and Trent is somehow worse as a midfielder than he is as a full back. Wharton might go on to be what we're looking for but odds are we'll keep searching forever. We don't have a Rodri or a Kroos or a Modric or even a Pogba to take control of the middle and drag teams around the place, we're reliant on hard working triers, always have been. That's why France struggled more than usual this time as well, a midfield of Kante, Rabiot and Tchouameni provided steel but no control and they couldn't make the most of the pace and guile out wide. There's a reason Southgate choose to play with as much cover as possible and it's because we never win the midfield battle and we just don't have the players to do it. If anything what killed us yesterday was he took Saka off tracking back duty and for both goals Walker got caught out by overloads. Bringing in a more attacking manager to make the most of Palmer, Saka and Gordon isn't going to change our lack of ability to produce a midfielder who can set a tempo
Interesting take but no mention of Foden who ran the show in the 1st half against the Netherlands and hit the post and had one cleared off the line. Overall Foden didn't look like the Premier player of the year and Bellingham after the 1st 30 minutes against Serbia didn't look like the best young talent in the English team since Rooney.
I still feel a talented coach can get the best out of them both in the same team. Foden plays everywhere for city in different midfield roles but then he has a higher standard and winning team around him
We get to finals and semi finals over the last 3 major tournaments so we are not talking about a shite team that's goes home before Scotland.
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Taken from the BBC Sport website:
England were one of the worst attacking sides at Euro 2024, in terms of both shot quantity and quality.
- Only five teams shot less often than England.
- Only Scotland, Serbia and Slovenia had a worst attack in terms of expected goals.
- Discounting penalties, only Scotland created worse-quality chances on average.
Additionally, we have conceded a goal in 12 of the last 16 matches. Very hard to be successful when we are liable to let one in and not creating enough.3 -
Spot onGarrymanilow said:People talk about how England should be able to play fast attacking football but any team that does that effectively does so with control of the midfield. That's our problem, for all the brilliant, quick wingers and attacking midfielders we've brought through in recent years we're still unable to produce a midfielder who can control a game. Bellingham isn't it, he's all silky dragbacks and beating his man with skill and not much else. Rice grew into a different player than we'd thought, instead of being a midfield pivot he's a box to box player who is best driving with the ball at his feet. Mainoo had a good tournament overall but he was totally out of his depth last night and was a passenger in a team that didn't see much of the ball. Gallagher is a terrier but he's reactive and Trent is somehow worse as a midfielder than he is as a full back. Wharton might go on to be what we're looking for but odds are we'll keep searching forever. We don't have a Rodri or a Kroos or a Modric or even a Pogba to take control of the middle and drag teams around the place, we're reliant on hard working triers, always have been. That's why France struggled more than usual this time as well, a midfield of Kante, Rabiot and Tchouameni provided steel but no control and they couldn't make the most of the pace and guile out wide. There's a reason Southgate choose to play with as much cover as possible and it's because we never win the midfield battle and we just don't have the players to do it. If anything what killed us yesterday was he took Saka off tracking back duty and for both goals Walker got caught out by overloads. Bringing in a more attacking manager to make the most of Palmer, Saka and Gordon isn't going to change our lack of ability to produce a midfielder who can set a tempo1 -
Probably not, but that wasn’t what I was suggesting. I was saying we should’ve brought another left back instead of Dunk.Chizz said:
Would England's results have been better if Dunk had played instead of Trippier in any of the games?lordromford said:
Surely the Trippier debate should start with “Why didn’t we take another actual left back? Could’ve left Dunk at home.redlanered said:The whole debate about Trippier should start with the frustration that at the very highest level of football you get players unwilling to play even simple passes with either foot. How is this even tolerated in academies?0 -
Heard the samecafcdave123 said:
I was watching on itv and before Spain scored their second they said Gallagher and Trippier were about to come on then said nope they’ve gone and sat back down.soapboxsam said:carly burn said:Heard a lot of talk about lethargy in the squad.
Couple of stats to maybe back that up.
Firstly, out of the 12 players that have played the most minutes in the whole tournament prior to the final, 7 were from England.
Also in the last 6 major tournaments w/c and euros the team that played their semi final first went onto win in the final.
If this is factual Carly burn and I believe you, then both Semi finals should be on the same day with a 5 pm and 8 pm KO or a 3 hour gap whatever time they KO.
Still can't understand why Gareth didn't use his 5 subs earlier as so many of the midfielders were struggling plus Shaw needed to come off after 70 mins as was flagging after being our best player 1st half.
Spain were better and had a good simple game plan to attack down the flanks and also between the lines which they did often in the 2nd half when it was 45 minutes too long for so many of our team who have given everything to the cause despite never looking convincing or fluid.
england definitely looked like they needed shoring up but I think Nigel wanted to save them for extra time, which proved to be a mistake4 -
Not really all that gutted to be honest... That was a lot easier to take than the italy game, Spain were the best team in the tornament by a mile and deserved to win
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Foden's performance is actually a very good example of my point. Foden didn't run the game; he was playing in a very advanced role and had the ball shuttled up to him through an almost entirely absent Dutch midfield. That didn't come about because he controlled the midfield, it came about because we faced no opposition in there and Mainoo and Rice dominated the space and got it to him in advanced areas. Foden having a strong influence on the game is exactly the kind of thing that would happen more often if we were actually able to keep the ball in midfield and progress it at our pace. Once the Dutch changed things and put an extra body in the middle Foden fell away and was subbed. Literally one minute after Foden hit the post Depay had to go off and was replaced by Veerman, and Foden contributed nothing for the rest of the game before being subbed on 80 minutes. We lost total control of the midfield, Foden was stifled. The issue isn't with Bellingham and Foden being there together, after the system change Bellingham was very good at shifting out left and leaving space for Foden, they just weren't able to consistently get the ball played into them in dangerous areas because we weren't able to work the ball to them effectively. So often they'd have to pick it up deeper or under a huge amount of pressure because we couldn't provide a platform for them to work off.soapboxsam said:No Garrymanilow said:People talk about how England should be able to play fast attacking football but any team that does that effectively does so with control of the midfield. That's our problem, for all the brilliant, quick wingers and attacking midfielders we've brought through in recent years we're still unable to produce a midfielder who can control a game. Bellingham isn't it, he's all silky dragbacks and beating his man with skill and not much else. Rice grew into a different player than we'd thought, instead of being a midfield pivot he's a box to box player who is best driving with the ball at his feet. Mainoo had a good tournament overall but he was totally out of his depth last night and was a passenger in a team that didn't see much of the ball. Gallagher is a terrier but he's reactive and Trent is somehow worse as a midfielder than he is as a full back. Wharton might go on to be what we're looking for but odds are we'll keep searching forever. We don't have a Rodri or a Kroos or a Modric or even a Pogba to take control of the middle and drag teams around the place, we're reliant on hard working triers, always have been. That's why France struggled more than usual this time as well, a midfield of Kante, Rabiot and Tchouameni provided steel but no control and they couldn't make the most of the pace and guile out wide. There's a reason Southgate choose to play with as much cover as possible and it's because we never win the midfield battle and we just don't have the players to do it. If anything what killed us yesterday was he took Saka off tracking back duty and for both goals Walker got caught out by overloads. Bringing in a more attacking manager to make the most of Palmer, Saka and Gordon isn't going to change our lack of ability to produce a midfielder who can set a tempo
Interesting take but no mention of Foden who ran the show in the 1st half against the Netherlands and hit the post and had one cleared off the line. Overall Foden didn't look like the Premier player of the year and Bellingham after the 1st 30 minutes against Serbia didn't look like the best young talent in the English team since Rooney.
I still feel a talented coach can get the best out of them both in the same team. Foden plays everywhere for city in different midfield roles but then he has a higher standard and winning team around him
We get to finals and semi finals over the last 3 major tournaments so we are not talking about a shite team that's goes home before Scotland.1 -
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1. Luis de la Fuente isn’t a big-name manager. Most English fans wouldn’t have been aware of him coming into the Euros.Worked in Academy & senior club football before taking charge of Spain U19s in 2013. Track record as a player developer.Won Euro U19s in 2015, Euro U21s in 2019 & Olympic silver in Tokyo.Those players have formed foundation of his triumphant Euros squad. He knew the players - and also the Spanish national football identity and style of play. In fact he'd helped to develop it.Southgate similar. Maybe we shouldn't keep looking for unicorn managers, in words of former England Head of Strategy & Performance Dave Reddin.2. A lot of discourse in England is about individual players (as well as about the manager).Spain were about the collective. Their tactical approach/ style of play didn't discernibly deviate depending on individuals on the pitch.When Rodri went off at half-time of the final, Sociedad’s Martin Zubimendi came on. Team-mates adapted and the team dominated.Pedri didn’t play from quarter-finals onwards and Dani Omo came in and excelled.
3. England launched their DNA a decade ago, with former Technical Director Dan Ashworth & Southgate (then U21s coach).Ambition was to have teams that “intelligently dominate possession, selecting the right moments to progress and penetrate.”Out of possession strategy was to "intelligently regain possession as early and efficiently as possible.”Doesn't sound too dissimilar from the way Spain played throughout Euros? They had 65% possession in the final and, 2nd half in particular, probed and probed until they found openings.When DNA was launched, Southgate had said: “To be a successful team, we need to control possession. If we look at the successful teams over the last 10, 12 years, that’s definitely been the case. And if you look to the future, you will only see that increasing."This wasn't how England played at the Euros, when they often dropped deep and looked for counter attacks/ moments of individual brilliance.France won 2018 World Cup playing that way, but didn't face a side of quality of 2024 Spain.Be interesting to ask Southgate why they've deviated from DNA. Fitness of players? Profile of players? Change in beliefs?
4. England is producing a very high calibre of player now, thanks in large part to clubs and EPPP (launched 2012).But so too are Spain - and they've been better on giving opportunities to young players.2 years ago, @sportCIES published their list of top clubs in Europe for homegrown minutes.Bilbao were top and 7 of leading 15 clubs were from Spain and, on average, La Liga sides had given 17% of their minutes to club-trained players. Premier League figure was 12.1%.La Liga also launched a 10-year plan for Academies, which Juan Florit told us about (link below).5. England producing a lot of technically excellent players. Are we producing the conductors/ quarter-backs/ tempo setters?Was there that profile of player in the England squad for the Euros?
6. When England laid out their plan to win a World Cup a decade ago, one of their major ambitions was to be "better and different, to make winning inevitable."Part of this = world-class performance support, in realms of data science, performance, medical, game insights and coaching.There have been cuts in some of these areas and England/ FA need to ensure they retain this ambition in order to fulfil that dream of winning a major tournament.11 -
He reminded me of Ronaldo.lordromford said:
It was pretty annoying, for sure. I don’t know if it’s a recent development either. I do get the impression that the really big names get protection in La Liga and he’s been the breakout star for Madrid this year and everyone’s been saying how good he is. Maybe it’s part of his game now. He was looking frustrated quite a lot when not being given fouls.se9addick said:
For an England “star” I’ve probably seen much less of Bellingham at club level than any other as I only watch a bit of German football, but not loads, and haven’t seen any Spanish football last season.AllHailTheHen said:Best team won and barring a couple of spells we never really looked like winning it. We couldn't handle their press at all and I lost count of how many times we panicked and lost possession. They nullified Saka really well by doubling up.
On paper our squad easily matches theirs but too many of our big names didn't turn up. Bellingham also needs to leave the rolling around back in Madrid. Yes we got to another final but we've not done it by playing well and we were shown tonight how a good team plays.
Does he always spend so much time on the floor? It’s absolutely ridiculous, not sure if it’s a recent development?Looking at him in the Euros, it feels like that adulation has got in his head. I think in many ways it’s useful for a highly talented player to have an arrogant streak, but I really hope Bellingham has got some good advisers around him telling him to rein it back a bit.
He speaks very well and he’s very mature for his age, but during this tournament he’s had an air of ‘Billy Big Bollocks’ about him, and I don’t think that’s helping.
He threw himself to the ground at the slightest touch, had a face like a slapped arse and attempted to break Charlie Kirk's record of staying on the deck for no good reason.
He was pathetic apart from the 2 goals and a lovely turn last night.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13632765/Jude-Bellingham-England-Liverpool-Euro-2024-final-Spain.html
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Walker might be fast but often displays a lack of a football brain, for me. There were a few opportunities to throw towards Saka, but he wanted to show his amazing arm strength...
https://x.com/RecoSpurs/status/1812609441507807434?t=s63JrMKcWaPFsLbaCk0iLw&s=19
From that position, a throw into the box often sees a flick-on and an overhead kick!2 -
Chris_from_Sidcup said:On a sidenote though, fair play to the Spain manager de la Fuente, who has now completed a hat trick of winning the U19, U21 and senior Euro's. Also won the Nations league last year as well.
bajo rendimiento en serie0 -
That doesn’t make any sense. You’re the one wanting it both ways. We got to the final despite his negativity, we lost the final because of his negativity.jimmymelrose said:If we got to the final despite Southgate then we also lost the final despite him. You can’t have it both ways.0 -
That's the moment we lost the fragile momentum we'd started to build - right there.mendonca said:Walker might be fast but often displays a lack of a football brain, for me. There were a few opportunities to throw towards Saka, but he wanted to show his amazing arm strength...
https://x.com/RecoSpurs/status/1812609441507807434?t=s63JrMKcWaPFsLbaCk0iLw&s=19
From that position, a throw into the box often sees a flick-on and an overhead kick!
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mendonca said:Walker might be fast but often displays a lack of a football brain, for me. There were a few opportunities to throw towards Saka, but he wanted to show his amazing arm strength...
https://x.com/RecoSpurs/status/1812609441507807434?t=s63JrMKcWaPFsLbaCk0iLw&s=19
From that position, a throw into the box often sees a flick-on and an overhead kick!That's actually a good thing from Walker. The problem is the ball from Pickford. Stones plays it back to Pickford and just watch Watkins. He keeps up with the Spanish defence pushing out, drops deeper and turns. He's away, facing the opposition goal and well onside when it leaves Pickford's foot and a well placed ball over the top would have seen him through.
There he is with a yard on his man already, and here he is 1 second later:
All Pickford, usually one of our best long passers, has to do is send that ball over the top down the middle and Watkins is away. The whole reason we brought him on is to play off that last defender and exploit situations where Spain push higher and can be caught out on the turn. Pickford ends up playing a confused ball inbetween Watkins and Walker that' far too long and the chance goes. It's rubbish, but it's rubbish from Pickford, if the ball over had been right that would have been good from Walker from a throw0 -
It's poor from Walker and Pickford, it doesn't have to be one or the otherGarrymanilow said:mendonca said:Walker might be fast but often displays a lack of a football brain, for me. There were a few opportunities to throw towards Saka, but he wanted to show his amazing arm strength...
https://x.com/RecoSpurs/status/1812609441507807434?t=s63JrMKcWaPFsLbaCk0iLw&s=19
From that position, a throw into the box often sees a flick-on and an overhead kick!That's actually a good thing from Walker. The problem is the ball from Pickford. Stones plays it back to Pickford and just watch Watkins. He keeps up with the Spanish defence pushing out, drops deeper and turns. He's away, facing the opposition goal and well onside when it leaves Pickford's foot and a well placed ball over the top would have seen him through.There he is with a yard on his man already, and here he is 1 second later:All Pickford, usually one of our best long passers, has to do is send that ball over the top down the middle and Watkins is away. The whole reason we brought him on is to play off that last defender and exploit situations where Spain push higher and can be caught out on the turn. Pickford ends up playing a confused ball inbetween Watkins and Walker that' far too long and the chance goes. It's rubbish, but it's rubbish from Pickford, if the ball over had been right that would have been good from Walker from a throw5 -
I can't say I agree - there are 6 players in an attacking position. 4 in the box. It's not quite Charlton where you're lucky to have one to aim at.
The throw-in is approximately in the same location as the throw-in where Jude scored his overhead kick against Slovakia. I'd say we were more likely to score from a flick or a poor clearance than some masterplan of going back to your goalkeeper to play a Pirlo'esque through ball.2 -
Absolutely gutted, been in a foul mood all day. Had to take myself off social media as well. It just won’t ever happen will it, I think I’ve just got to accept it.3
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Gutting again, not as bad as Italy, as sometimes you have to just accept there's always a bigger fish, but still not nice to lose another final.
I don't entirely blame Southgate, some of these players shouldn't need coaching, and they're performances were inexcusable. Rice, Walker, Kane. Embarrassing performances. How much can Southgate really drill into them players, or any coach for that matter. For all their experience, they shouldn't be performing as bad as that.
Was Kane even fit? If he was, why didn't we play to his strengths. If he wasn't, why was he playing at all. That's the only type of the decisions Southgate should be held accountable for, as that is in his control entirely. He can't help players playing shit however.
Spain made us look amateur. I thought with us being the more experienced side with a more seasoned manager, it would show. You'd think the roles were reversed though and it was Spain who had our recent tournament history.
Rough one this as we were outclassed completely and probably need drastic changes. I'd say Spain are world cup winners based on what I've saw, and them only being able to get better from it.2 -
Well yes, it does. Between Walker and Stones they've created a situation where a good ball over the top will likely lead to a goal. If Pickford plays the right ball then Walker's played it well, but Pickford's passing lets him down. The majority of the problem we had all tournament was not moving the ball quickly enough, and we brought on Watkins because of his ability to make short to long runs at speed and get behind a defence. Sending the ball back and then forwards at pace is the best way to create the space for Watkins as that passage of play shows. There's nothing wrong with sending the ball back if you can create new options and bring it back up at pace. It's not a particularly difficult ball for Pickford, there's acres of space he can play it into and you'd expect him to make that pass, it's primarily why he's in the teamcafcsinger said:
It's poor from Walker and Pickford, it doesn't have to be one or the otherGarrymanilow said:mendonca said:Walker might be fast but often displays a lack of a football brain, for me. There were a few opportunities to throw towards Saka, but he wanted to show his amazing arm strength...
https://x.com/RecoSpurs/status/1812609441507807434?t=s63JrMKcWaPFsLbaCk0iLw&s=19
From that position, a throw into the box often sees a flick-on and an overhead kick!That's actually a good thing from Walker. The problem is the ball from Pickford. Stones plays it back to Pickford and just watch Watkins. He keeps up with the Spanish defence pushing out, drops deeper and turns. He's away, facing the opposition goal and well onside when it leaves Pickford's foot and a well placed ball over the top would have seen him through.There he is with a yard on his man already, and here he is 1 second later:All Pickford, usually one of our best long passers, has to do is send that ball over the top down the middle and Watkins is away. The whole reason we brought him on is to play off that last defender and exploit situations where Spain push higher and can be caught out on the turn. Pickford ends up playing a confused ball inbetween Watkins and Walker that' far too long and the chance goes. It's rubbish, but it's rubbish from Pickford, if the ball over had been right that would have been good from Walker from a throw
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A lot can change in 2 years, but they were missing their whole first choice midfield I the second half yesterday (Rodri, Gavi, Pedri) and still outclassed us.Braziliance said:Gutting again, not as bad as Italy, as sometimes you have to just accept there's always a bigger fish, but still not nice to lose another final.
I don't entirely blame Southgate, some of these players shouldn't need coaching, and they're performances were inexcusable. Rice, Walker, Kane. Embarrassing performances. How much can Southgate really drill into them players, or any coach for that matter. For all their experience, they shouldn't be performing as bad as that.
Was Kane even fit? If he was, why didn't we play to his strengths. If he wasn't, why was he playing at all. That's the only type of the decisions Southgate should be held accountable for, as that is in his control entirely. He can't help players playing shit however.
Spain made us look amateur. I thought with us being the more experienced side with a more seasoned manager, it would show. You'd think the roles were reversed though and it was Spain who had our recent tournament history.
Rough one this as we were outclassed completely and probably need drastic changes. I'd say Spain are world cup winners based on what I've saw, and them only being able to get better from it.
Their issue is the defence - Laporte is playing in Saudi Arabia, wonder if he'll still be in the team in 2 years?0 -
Good point. Wish I’d thought of that. 😉AddicksAddict said:
That doesn’t make any sense. You’re the one wanting it both ways. We got to the final despite his negativity, we lost the final because of his negativity.jimmymelrose said:If we got to the final despite Southgate then we also lost the final despite him. You can’t have it both ways.0 -
Yeah they wasn't even at full strength and still made it look easy.North Lower Neil said:
A lot can change in 2 years, but they were missing their whole first choice midfield I the second half yesterday (Rodri, Gavi, Pedri) and still outclassed us.Braziliance said:Gutting again, not as bad as Italy, as sometimes you have to just accept there's always a bigger fish, but still not nice to lose another final.
I don't entirely blame Southgate, some of these players shouldn't need coaching, and they're performances were inexcusable. Rice, Walker, Kane. Embarrassing performances. How much can Southgate really drill into them players, or any coach for that matter. For all their experience, they shouldn't be performing as bad as that.
Was Kane even fit? If he was, why didn't we play to his strengths. If he wasn't, why was he playing at all. That's the only type of the decisions Southgate should be held accountable for, as that is in his control entirely. He can't help players playing shit however.
Spain made us look amateur. I thought with us being the more experienced side with a more seasoned manager, it would show. You'd think the roles were reversed though and it was Spain who had our recent tournament history.
Rough one this as we were outclassed completely and probably need drastic changes. I'd say Spain are world cup winners based on what I've saw, and them only being able to get better from it.
Their issue is the defence - Laporte is playing in Saudi Arabia, wonder if he'll still be in the team in 2 years?
I can only see then getting better in 2 years with how young their wingers are, and how much they can improve. Their defense is their weak spot at the moment, but there are plenty of good young Spanish defenders that will be improving over the next few years.
Their biggest problem will be Argentina, but I can't see Argentina being as good by the world cup. I'd like to think it could also be us, but some big calls need to be made by then.
I'll probably get laughed at for this view, but I don't think France are the same without prime Kante and in particular Pogba. Pogba was genuinely a brilliant player for France and was a massive part of their success, with him gone they don't look the same. Certainly doesn't help them either that Griezmann is no longer one of the best players in the world. I think France are in a worst place than us tbh.0 -
FIFA rankings can be hit and miss but I found this quite interesting:
https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/18126528342208802951 -
Thought Walker was out of position for both goals4
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So .......AddicksAddict said:
That doesn’t make any sense. You’re the one wanting it both ways. We got to the final despite his negativity, we lost the final because of his negativity.jimmymelrose said:If we got to the final despite Southgate then we also lost the final despite him. You can’t have it both ways.
When we lose it’s Southgate’s fault.
When we win it’s thanks only to the players.
Besides, loads of teams have won these tournaments playing defensively. Spain this year are an exception.1 -
Best three players on the pitch yesterday according to three rating sources…
WhoScored:
1. Jude Bellingham 7.9
2. Nico Williams 7.7
3. Lamine Yamal 7.4
SofaScore:
1. Nico Williams 7.9
2. Jude Bellingham 7.7
3. Lamine Yamal 7.5
Fotmob:
1. Nico Williams 8.2
2. Jude Bellingham 8.1
3. Marc Cucurella 7.7
Worst three from the same sources…
WhoScored:
1. Harry Kane 6.0
2. Kobbie Mainoo 6.1
3. John Stones / Bukayo Saka 6.2
SofaScore:
1. Alvaro Morata 6.3
2. Harry Kane / Kobbie Mainoo / Unai Simon 6.5
Fotmob:
1. Harry Kane 6.0
2. Phil Foden / John Stones 6.10
