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Next England Manager - Thomas Tuchel
Comments
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As for people saying it is a short contract. It is until the end of a major tournament. Surely this is a logical review point.2
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No idea really as don't know enough about specific managers or whether they'd accept but would hope there would be a viable English option.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Well it's definitely not cheating because any other top level nation could do the same.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:It's also cheating a bit in my view. Just getting the best coach/ manager regardless of their nationality. Not what international competition is about in my view but perhaps in this global world international competition is on borrowed time and diluting it with non national managers is just a symptom.
But out of interest seeing as you've been pretty clear on this thread that the manager should be English, which manager who was available would you have given the job to?0 -
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Oh, so does Tuchel have an English grandmother?guinnessaddick said:
Through his grandmother. The rule is the same for all international football.LargeAddick said:How is Carsley Irish, he was born in Birmingham.
Isn’t the manager part of the team?0 -
The whole point of competing is to win and prove you’re the best. Even if we won the World Cup this wouldn’t have been attained because it’s with a German manager. I certainly wouldn’t be ’the last’ in any other major European nation that doesn’t do these ’mental gymnastics.’Todds_right_hook said:
And probably the lastChris_from_Sidcup said:
You are the first person i have ever seen or heard say this.jimmymelrose said:
I request that anyone who clicks on lol for my above comment, explains how they would feel if we play Spain again in a tournament.jimmymelrose said:
He’s been in England for 8 years so that's enough to apply for British citizenship which should be a pre-requisite for the England manager’s job.Codfishjunior said:
If he refuses then he isn’t committed and shouldn't have the job.
I would also like to know how they would feel if the governing bodies decided that you can have one or two foreign players in the team.
Everyone puts such an importance on the manager, and rightly so for he is part of the team. As I’ve said to my children about various things: just because it’s allowed, doesn’t mean you should do it. Otherwise, I don’t get why we should bother. The English women’s team’s victory is devalued because a member of the team (the manager) wasn’t English. It looks pretty pathetic to our rival nationalities to be frank.2 -
It would make him British.cafcdave123 said:
But getting a British passport won’t make pep Englishjimmymelrose said:
But Bellingham also has a British passport so it’s incomparable to Guardiola. If you have two nationalities you can choose the country you represent. How can you be allowed to choose when you only have one? It doesn’t make sense.cafcdave123 said:
I agree but the question was in response to someone saying pep can only have the England job if he gets a British passport, Bellingham, at the behest of his Spanish club, got himself an Irish passportGribbo said:
I don't think Bellingham has done anything on the international stage yet, to warrant an automatic place, in the same way that the likes of Kane, Saka and Walker have.cafcdave123 said:
So should Bellingham be dropped?jimmymelrose said:
He’s been in England for 8 years so that's enough to apply for British citizenship which should be a pre-requisite for the England manager’s job.Codfishjunior said:
If he refuses then he isn’t committed and shouldn't have the job.
Having said that, I can't see why Kane was starting every single game when he was clearly not firing on all cylinders (which I'm not criticising him for), when there were clearly options on the bench.
English hasn’t strickly speaking been a nationality since the treaty of the Union in 1707. It’s really an ethnicity.
Tuchel if he qualifies should be obliged to get a British passport and be resident in England. Otherwise he shouldn’t be manager. I would say the same of Howe or Potter if they wanted to manage France or Germany. Seriously though, can you imagine the FFF appointing a British manager? No, because it’s an embarrassment.2 -
Love how angry this kinda thing makes people, really is quite amusing.15
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Would this faux outrage have been the same if Pep had been appointed? I don't think so.Every player picked for an England squad qualifies to play for England. That's all that matters and it's irrelevant who picks that squad, line-up and tactics - if we win the WC then it will be an Englishman who scores the winning goal, an English keeper who saves that penalty.8
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In Rugby, not only are the head coaches from other countries in many cases but guys from the Pacific Islands playing for England, Wales, Scotland or Ireland after being attached to a club from that country for 60 months then you are eligible.
English Rugby players not being picked as they play in France looks like a legal challenge should be made.
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Wouldn't normally listen to a Premier interview on a Friday morning but being temporary disabled after recovering from operation for 2nd Broken Fibula( have screw now) and ruptured ligaments I have time !
Eddie Howe was an interesting interview:
He said he wasn't one of the alleged 10 interviewed for the Job. Possibly Newcastle said to the FA to FO as his contract would cost them a fortune in compensation?
He said he is so focused on Newcastle, that he didn't feel disappointed at no call ? Not sure about the veracity of that answer ?
He spent two days at Chelsea when out of work and found Thomas Tuchel an excellent person and coach and good choice despite like many of us, would prefer an English boss but feels the FA have a top manager in Thomas Tuchel.
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Didn’t say angry - I said embarrassed.shine166 said:Love how angry this kinda thing makes people, really is quite amusing.
Also, isn’t it the accepted wisdom that if you make a mistake, learn from it and don’t repeat it?
This will be our third attempt at this folly.
If you find it amusing, fine. Wums don’t work on me.
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Sven and Capello didn’t fail to win a trophy because they were foreign. The main reasons would have been their management, tactics, coaching, as well as the players available.jimmymelrose said:
Didn’t say angry - I said embarrassed.shine166 said:Love how angry this kinda thing makes people, really is quite amusing.
Also, isn’t it the accepted wisdom that if you make a mistake, learn from it and don’t repeat it?
This will be our third attempt at this folly.
If you find it amusing, fine. Wums don’t work on me.6 -
But you could say that about the English managers who have attempted to be successful as England manager.jimmymelrose said:
Didn’t say angry - I said embarrassed.shine166 said:Love how angry this kinda thing makes people, really is quite amusing.
Also, isn’t it the accepted wisdom that if you make a mistake, learn from it and don’t repeat it?
This will be our third attempt at this folly.
If you find it amusing, fine. Wums don’t work on me.Would you say Hodgson or McClaren were more successful than Eriksson or Capello?1 -
According to many if England don't win Euros or a WC it's a failure, so what is being compared ?
Bobby Robson came across as a nice Guy and had a good CV at club level but still not sure how he kept the Job after losing to ROI, Holland and Russia in 88 Euro's yet in 90 he was a couple of decent penalties away from a Final of the World Cup.
18 month contract is sensible to start with for TT as the poison chalice of the England gig where managers and players alike can get slagged off for not singing an anthem is just plain bizarre. I love England but I have to mute the sound of sportsmen or women singing especially an anthem that includes God and brown nosing royalty.
Thomas Tuchel doesn't appear sensitive unlike Southgate, Hodgson, Taylor, Robson, Keegan etc or will need an umbrella like Steve McClaren or believe the sins of previous lives will be why you suffer in this as Glen Hoddle did, or does. Thomas Tuchel can enjoy being English manager even though the threshold set to be a success is unlikely to be attained.
It will be fun on the Journey even if we don't reach the chosen destination.0 -
I find it unbelievable that the FA didn't speak to Howe but, as you say, they might have baulked at the compo so no point in even having the conversation. Howe's contract ends in 2027 so it would still be payable but, by then, Howe might have parted ways anyway. In these circumstances, I wouldn't expect Howe to say that he is disappointed because it wouldn't achieve much in doing so with either his current or potential future employer.soapboxsam said:Wouldn't normally listen to a Premier interview on a Friday morning but being temporary disabled after recovering from operation for 2nd Broken Fibula( have screw now) and ruptured ligaments I have time !
Eddie Howe was an interesting interview:
He said he wasn't one of the alleged 10 interviewed for the Job. Possibly Newcastle said to the FA to FO as his contract would cost them a fortune in compensation?
He said he is so focused on Newcastle, that he didn't feel disappointed at no call ? Not sure about the veracity of that answer ?
He spent two days at Chelsea when out of work and found Thomas Tuchel an excellent person and coach and good choice despite like many of us, would prefer an English boss but feels the FA have a top manager in Thomas Tuchel.0 -
But another English manager would be the 11th since Ramsey (counting only those who made it to at least double digits in games.) Nearly four times as many as foreign managers and absolutely zero times as many trophies to show for it.jimmymelrose said:
Didn’t say angry - I said embarrassed.shine166 said:Love how angry this kinda thing makes people, really is quite amusing.
Also, isn’t it the accepted wisdom that if you make a mistake, learn from it and don’t repeat it?
This will be our third attempt at this folly.
If you find it amusing, fine. Wums don’t work on me.
Almost as though nationality has absolutely no bearing on success.
Embarrassed is exactly the right word.
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Think its not a bad appointment - think we over rate our squad (we have one international class striker and zero midfield generals - which has always been our problem) and there are very few english managers to pick from - the international (called premier) league we have in this country has seen to that.0
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Jury would be out on Capello. Some real horror stories about his tenure and his strict Italian style didn’t suit the players at all. The guy didn’t even speak English that well.Scoham said:
Sven and Capello didn’t fail to win a trophy because they were foreign. The main reasons would have been their management, tactics, coaching, as well as the players available.jimmymelrose said:
Didn’t say angry - I said embarrassed.shine166 said:Love how angry this kinda thing makes people, really is quite amusing.
Also, isn’t it the accepted wisdom that if you make a mistake, learn from it and don’t repeat it?
This will be our third attempt at this folly.
If you find it amusing, fine. Wums don’t work on me.0 -
So there are three people here suggesting that because we’ve hired 11 English managers since Ramsey and the’ve all failed, that justifies hiring a foreign manager.
France won nothing until 1984. They now have won four major tournaments. From 1904 to 1984 they had 17 French managers (not including several joint managers). Did they unashamedly conclude that French coaches couldn’t and would never be as good as those of their rivals? No. They conceived Clairfontaine and initiated a new coaching system. We have tried to do the same with St Georges Park.
The problem is not English managers:St George’s Park, England’s state-of-the-art central hub, is helping to produce as technically gifted and skilful young footballers as France’s Clairefontaine, the elite training centre hidden in the Rambouillet forest some 40 miles outside Paris.
The Institut National du Football de Clairefontaine, to give its full title, was dreamt up by French Football Federation President Fernand Sastre in the 1970s, opened its doors in 1988 and a decade later the country won its first World Cup, as host nation, with the national team based there. Twenty years later, they won a second.
A “winning mentality” has become a modern cliché but it’s precisely what Didier Deschamps sees as crucial to his job as France’s manager since he started in 2012.
I knew all about that,” said Deschamps, who was a midfielder in France’s 1998 World Cup and 2000 European Championship winning sides. “It’s true that technical qualities and individual talent will make a difference on the pitch, but the collective strength – the team working together – is what counts. No team can win without unity.”
Indeed, France had setbacks before the Qatar World Cup began that could have broken weaker squads. They lost their Ballon d’Or winning striker Karim Benzema on the eve of the tournament. Yet in came 36-year-old striker Olivier Giroud, deemed past his best by Chelsea last year.
They had already lost their two most experienced central midfielders, N’Golo Kanté and Paul Pogba. In came Adrien Rabiot, of Juventus, and Aurélien Tchouaméni, who signed for Real Madrid last summer.
Tchouaméni is only 22, and a great example of what lies beneath, of how such a young mind can cope of the complexities of defensive midfield. He studied English while a teenager in Bordeaux’s academy because he had an ambition to play in the Premier League. And after breaking into the Bordeaux first team at 18, he hired a personal trainer to improve the physical and fitness areas he felt he lacked.
Even losing Rabiot and Dayot Upamecano, the centre-back, for the semi-final against Morocco, didn’t destabilise them. In came 23-year-olds Ibrahima Konaté and Youssouf Fofana, onwards they went.
There’s an inherent steeliness in France’s players, an inner sense of bravery earned only by experience. Antoine Griezmann, who at 31 has excelled as a revised box-to-box central midfielder, moved to Spain aged 14, after constant rejection from French clubs, where he joined Real Sociedad.
Upamecano was 17 when he moved to Austria. Konaté was 18 when he moved to Germany. Eduardo Camavinga, the 20-year-old Real Madrid midfielder, was born in an Angolan refugee camp. He is extraordinarily talented yet has only played once, against Tunisia, in a much-changed side with qualification already secured.
And then there’s the fact that France simply produces more professional footballers playing in elite leagues than England. Last season, in Europe’s top five leagues, there were almost twice as many French as English.
In the Premier League there were 149 Englishmen to 27 French, but elsewhere the contrast was stark. France’s Ligue 1: 211 French to seven English. Germany’s Bundesliga: 34 to eight. Italy’s Serie A: 28 to five. Spain’s La Liga: 20 to zero.
That’s 53 per cent more elite professional players available for France than England. That alone provides some context to England’s narrow defeat.
Southgate has been warning since 2018 that there aren’t enough English footballers playing in the Premier League (let alone abroad). And though the figures have risen fractionally since then, it’s far from ideal.
The best young player to have emerged for England in the past 10 years is Jude Bellingham, who left Birmingham for Borussia Dortmund aged 17. What made his father pick the Bundesliga over the host of Premier League clubs who wanted him, you wonder.
There is constant pushback by the superpower of the Premier League towards attempts by the FA to try to ensure more English players play. A disconnect creating a problem that has no easy or obvious solution.
People laud the Premier League as the best league in the world, and that may be true – in terms of revenues and viewing figures. But while we may sneer at France’s Ligue 1, it’s producing a far greater volume of players for its country’s national team.
So maybe England has a lot further to go than it realises to truly become one of the world elite, to truly foster that mentality throughout every atom of the organisation.
When you travel up the winding driveway to pass through the security gates at Clairefontaine, there is a neat lawn on which sits a giant World Cup and two gold stars. When you pass through the security gate at St George’s Park, you are greeted by cows.
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Yes but that long quote shows that the problem isn't foreign managers either. It suggests the quality and quantity of the players is the issue.
So I don't know what point it's meant to prove regarding Tuchel.3 - Sponsored links:
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I am not giving an answer to the question but surely it boils down to what is more patriotic. To want England to win a major trophy with the best manager available or to win it with the best English manager available. Of course we could have an argument on whether Tuchal is better than say Howe or Potter. But if we use nationality as part of that argument the question applies.0
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That never held Rooney and Beckham back.ValleyGary said:
Jury would be out on Capello. Some real horror stories about his tenure and his strict Italian style didn’t suit the players at all. The guy didn’t even speak English that well.Scoham said:
Sven and Capello didn’t fail to win a trophy because they were foreign. The main reasons would have been their management, tactics, coaching, as well as the players available.jimmymelrose said:
Didn’t say angry - I said embarrassed.shine166 said:Love how angry this kinda thing makes people, really is quite amusing.
Also, isn’t it the accepted wisdom that if you make a mistake, learn from it and don’t repeat it?
This will be our third attempt at this folly.
If you find it amusing, fine. Wums don’t work on me.6 -
A manager is either material to a football team and a match and result or not.MuttleyCAFC said:I am not giving an answer to the question but surely it boils down to what is more patriotic. To want England to win a major trophy with the best manager available or to win it with the best English manager available. Of course we could have an argument on whether Tuchal is better than say Howe or Potter. But if we use nationality as part of that argument the question applies.
If they are not then any old Englishman would do.
However as Charlton fans we know how significant managers are to the performance of a team and outcome of a result.
Therefore by having a great German manager running things for the England side logically dictates that it would not be an English victory/ England truly winning a tournament but English players in partnership with a materially significant German manager...and in my eyes as it's international football whereby the whole concept is pitting nation v nation fior sport it would tarnish/ degrade that "England" had won.
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Does it really suggest that that is the issue?thenewbie said:Yes but that long quote shows that the problem isn't foreign managers either. It suggests the quality and quantity of the players is the issue.
So I don't know what point it's meant to prove regarding Tuchel.
The article begins with Deschamps’s
quote:
It’s true that technical qualities and individual talent will make a difference on the pitch, but the collective strength – the team working together – is what counts. No team can win without unity.”
So this collective strength largely comes from feeling together, or unity. When the crunch moments come then the players and management team are in it together, have the experience of challenging moments together and support each other, but crucially with the desire to win for their country.
That’s tough to do when in a semi-final against Germany your manager is in conversation in German with the staff and players on the other side, which is bound to happen. Harry Kane may also do the same but deep down you know that he is desperate to win for England.
Quite simply, a national team with belief they can win a tournament need to have a manager of the same nation. I believe equally that Martinez was a bad choice for Belgium.
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All this reminds me of Jimmy Floyd temporarily forgetting he’s Dutch when England scored against Netherlands.
https://x.com/the_forty_four/status/1811157933301895175?s=46&t=A-w3Eq0EWWpjMxring904Q
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You really believe if we are in a semi-final against Germany, that our players won't feel united with Tuchel if they see him speaking German with any opponent?jimmymelrose said:
Does it really suggest that that is the issue?thenewbie said:Yes but that long quote shows that the problem isn't foreign managers either. It suggests the quality and quantity of the players is the issue.
So I don't know what point it's meant to prove regarding Tuchel.
The article begins with Deschamps’s
quote:
It’s true that technical qualities and individual talent will make a difference on the pitch, but the collective strength – the team working together – is what counts. No team can win without unity.”
So this collective strength largely comes from feeling together, or unity. When the crunch moments come then the players and management team are in it together, have the experience of challenging moments together and support each other, but crucially with the desire to win for their country.
That’s tough to do when in a semi-final against Germany your manager is in conversation in German with the staff and players on the other side, which is bound to happen. Harry Kane may also do the same but deep down you know that he is desperate to win for England.
Quite simply, a national team with belief they can win a tournament need to have a manager of the same nation. I believe equally that Martinez was a bad choice for Belgium.0 -
They might feel a bit alarmed if they hear him shouting Die a lot to themstoneroses19 said:
You really believe if we are in a semi-final against Germany, that our players won't feel united with Tuchel if they see him speaking German with any opponent?jimmymelrose said:
Does it really suggest that that is the issue?thenewbie said:Yes but that long quote shows that the problem isn't foreign managers either. It suggests the quality and quantity of the players is the issue.
So I don't know what point it's meant to prove regarding Tuchel.
The article begins with Deschamps’s
quote:
It’s true that technical qualities and individual talent will make a difference on the pitch, but the collective strength – the team working together – is what counts. No team can win without unity.”
So this collective strength largely comes from feeling together, or unity. When the crunch moments come then the players and management team are in it together, have the experience of challenging moments together and support each other, but crucially with the desire to win for their country.
That’s tough to do when in a semi-final against Germany your manager is in conversation in German with the staff and players on the other side, which is bound to happen. Harry Kane may also do the same but deep down you know that he is desperate to win for England.
Quite simply, a national team with belief they can win a tournament need to have a manager of the same nation. I believe equally that Martinez was a bad choice for Belgium.1 -
ForeverAddickted said:
They might feel a bit alarmed if they hear him shouting Die a lot to themstoneroses19 said:
You really believe if we are in a semi-final against Germany, that our players won't feel united with Tuchel if they see him speaking German with any opponent?jimmymelrose said:
Does it really suggest that that is the issue?thenewbie said:Yes but that long quote shows that the problem isn't foreign managers either. It suggests the quality and quantity of the players is the issue.
So I don't know what point it's meant to prove regarding Tuchel.
The article begins with Deschamps’s
quote:
It’s true that technical qualities and individual talent will make a difference on the pitch, but the collective strength – the team working together – is what counts. No team can win without unity.”
So this collective strength largely comes from feeling together, or unity. When the crunch moments come then the players and management team are in it together, have the experience of challenging moments together and support each other, but crucially with the desire to win for their country.
That’s tough to do when in a semi-final against Germany your manager is in conversation in German with the staff and players on the other side, which is bound to happen. Harry Kane may also do the same but deep down you know that he is desperate to win for England.
Quite simply, a national team with belief they can win a tournament need to have a manager of the same nation. I believe equally that Martinez was a bad choice for Belgium.
3
https://youtu.be/QeNu3m4BzfM?si=Hcxxjoc3I_PvLAXw
