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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

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  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,323
    paulie8290 said:
    paulsturgess said:
    (Not that Jones has been well resourced, but he’s not been screwed over in the way Holden was)
    Other than the goalkeeper issue when we had a few turn us down, he has pretty much got everyone he wanted.

    His fault he went for loads of ex Luton players rather than seeing who else was out there and available, that's what will cost us, plus jobs for mates like Danny Hylton sitting on the bench 🤦
    Its possible that Hylton will be off in January, seeing that he and Potts have only signed until then.

    Otherwise its not like Hylton is exactly stealing a spot on the bench.

    Can argue that Dixon deserves a chance, but if he's not getting opportunities, you have to question how ready for first team action he actually is then - It wont take the fanbase to bemoan Jones if Dixon comes on a puts in a display that turns into a tribute match to Joe Pigott's performance against Millwall all those years ago.
  • ross1
    ross1 Posts: 50,974
    Hylton will only go if he has got the coaching badge he is working for
  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,485
    Croydon said:
    Problem is, he has assembled a side if absolute garbage. So even if we did sack him, we're stuck with the shite he signed for the duration of the contracts. 
    This is always the problem.

    Is there enough quality in this squad to perform under a different manager? Going by the excitement on here when each new signing came in, it would suggest that on paper at least, they are.

    Await his "in terms of stuff" word salad interview this evening to see his take on it.
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,809
    Bedsaddick said:
    Redvalleyeast said:
    Ok, say Jones gets the sack, who comes in that is worthy of us eventually giving a manager time to build? What happens if he doesnt turn it around after 1 transfer window? Its all well and good demanding Jones gets sacked but I havent seen anyone suggesting who we bring in?
    We need to do what it takes to get Powelly back. I'd even take Jackson back.
    Some are on their 12th wife, some are still pining for their ex 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,323
    AFKABartram said:
    I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.

    We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness. 

    Such a deflating situation.

    Am I wrong?

    I'm probably

    80% Jones in, because we need to start giving Managers time
    20% Dont believe that the club could find the right man

    I'm surprised we got Jones (probably because of his Stoke / Southampton reputation) - Yet if I was a Manager looking for a job, I'd either be bloody desperate for the work to take the Charlton job as I wouldnt expect to be there long term, or I'd simply imagine the pound signs from it not working out 

    We must be the easiest job in the world for a quick buck... Do a couple of months work, then get a decent pay out.
  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 8,040
    I just wonder why he's so dead set against creative players? Does he really value workrate that much highly over having someone that can unlock a defence? This side will go nowhere unless he decides to let the brakes off and actually use the attacking players we've got or goes and signs a quality attacking midfielder, someone that can pull the strings and get fans excited. 

    The style of play is reminding me of Slade and at least he had Ademola Lookman available. 
  • ct_addick
    ct_addick Posts: 4,333
    Luton lost 5-1 today so think they will sack Edwards…NJ would go if offered the job…can’t say I would be bothered if he did…..
  • Exiled_Addick
    Exiled_Addick Posts: 17,169
    Redvalleyeast said:
    Ok, say Jones gets the sack, who comes in that is worthy of us eventually giving a manager time to build? What happens if he doesnt turn it around after 1 transfer window? It’s all well and good demanding Jones gets sacked but I havent seen anyone suggesting who we bring in?
    Why/how should I know who all the possible options are, who would be interested, who we could afford?

    I didn’t particularly want NJ in the first place,  if that helps.

    I’d prefer we give someone their first shot at management. A promising coach or assistant manager at a premier league club or somewhere, maybe a foreign coach. Someone who has more personality than Appleton, is less rigid and unhinged than Jones, and not as happy clappy as Adkins or Holden. Someone who will play attack minded but pragmatic football. But how should I know who they are - I have enough time in my week to watch Charlton every Saturday, not following every facet of world football and coaching trends. That’s the people who are paid to do that full time’s job. 

    Doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion on whether NJ is the right man to go forwards with. 

    A better question is “Why should we trust the current senior managers to pick the right person to replace him?”. And that, I admit, would be a concern because they’ve inspired zero confidence so far. 
  • Ducktapeshoerepairs
    Ducktapeshoerepairs Posts: 970
    He hasn’t set any kind of playing style. His team selection and tactics are all over the place. He has consistently moaned in his interviews that the players aren’t doing what they are coached to do, but also not explained what this is. We are a scrappy, hit and hope side under him, he needs to go in my opinion 
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  • YannTheMann
    YannTheMann Posts: 1,041
    At this point I'm not too bothered about results, the performances are so consistently dire though and we don't seem to be able to address or improve on our shortcomings. The other part, and largely as AFKA says above, for me not calling for change immediately is that I genuinely don't know who is in our reach and seems an obvious improvement 
  • cafc_4life
    cafc_4life Posts: 456
    AFKABartram said:
    I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.

    We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness. 

    Such a deflating situation.

    Am I wrong?


    I’m as frustrated as everyone else, but also come to terms with the fact we are a mid table league one outfit and it’s going to take time until we are good enough to challenge at the top end. 

    I would much rather give jones 2 full seasons to see what comes of it. This was never going to be an instant fix. 

  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    It's interesting that he didn't take the Millwall job because they wouldn't give him total control of signings. We did, and that is a big part of the problem. 
  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,485
    Croydon said:
    It's interesting that he didn't take the Millwall job because they wouldn't give him total control of signings. We did, and that is a big part of the problem. 
    Who was the alternative at the time though, Scott, or was there gonna be someone else come in in a Director of Football role?
  • swordfish
    swordfish Posts: 4,234
    Claiming that any manager we appoint, who has past success on his CV elsewhere, must have got lucky with them, and fails here because he's clueless, loses all credibility after a while given how often it seems to happen. The problems run deeper.
  • queensland_addick
    queensland_addick Posts: 7,547
    AFKABartram said:
    I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.

    We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness. 

    Such a deflating situation.

    Am I wrong?

    You're not wrong.
    We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart.
    Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness.
    Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild.
    That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
  • CH4RLTON
    CH4RLTON Posts: 2,618
    Playing two target men with four narrow central midfielder makes no sense , the long diag ball from Macca is about the only idea we seem to have at times, yes we are always in games and look hard to break at times but it is bad to watch and we wont win any matches comfortably under him 
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,077
    I’m not in the Jones out camp but don’t know who would come in anyway. People will say Robins but there’s no way he takes a L1 job. He’ll either go to the Championship or take a chunk of time off. Who else is there who 1) would come and 2) would improve this group of players 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,380
    queensland_addick said:
    AFKABartram said:
    I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.

    We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness. 

    Such a deflating situation.

    Am I wrong?

    You're not wrong.
    We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart.
    Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness.
    Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild.
    That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
    Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
  • Kindoncasella
    Kindoncasella Posts: 258
    its not the manager its the players and has been since the season when we had good players like Cullen,Bielek,Aribo,Taylor, ect
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  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,750
    Scoham said:
    queensland_addick said:
    AFKABartram said:
    I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.

    We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness. 

    Such a deflating situation.

    Am I wrong?

    You're not wrong.
    We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart.
    Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness.
    Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild.
    That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
    Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
    I think Powell could be persuaded to leave the Assistant manager's job at Wednesday. 
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 3,804
    Kindoncasella said:
    its not the manager its the players and has been since the season when we had good players like Cullen,Bielek,Aribo,Taylor, ect
    Agree largely with this , problem being the side this season was assembled by the manager for the first time since then, so when he has put this group together and then is so, so far away from having any idea how to direct them he has to be heavily culpable… not that he was given a kings ransom to play with but the side you mention was also signed on a very restrained (zero!) budget and look at the contrast! 
  • Kindoncasella
    Kindoncasella Posts: 258
    paulsturgess said:
    Rothko said:
    Cool cool, another change, 6 in 4 years, and all it’s done is wheel spin the club. We're about as clearer example that changing managers constantly does nothing. Next man comes in, fails to get to the play offs, and what, sack them too? 
    This is very valid and is down to the owners. Proper owners would be selecting the manager more carefully, these guys have selected a succession of clowns already in their short tenure and also sanctioned all these atrocious signings. That’s the rooT cause for sure, but that doesn’t make hanging onto somebody evidently so clueless and inept right. Ultimately we need new owners but that is impossible. So the next best solution is the merry go round which managed to land us with bowyer by luck rather than design. I would actually have rather stuck with Holden and wouldn’t have minded giving him a longer period to build something, even though he was doing shite I thought he had the potential, but was criminally under resourced (in a way that Jones hasn’t been) 
    I doubt Bowyer would of done much better with these players. We had such a great team compared to what we have now and the last few seasons. Personally i think a manager is only a minor part of the equation and squad quality being the major bit.
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 3,804
    Jackson and or Holden are the ones we should have given longer too as they never had the opportunity to mould a side, they just fire fought with shambolic squads assembled by sandgaards kid. Curbs, Powell and bowyer were all novices but there was something in them to give time to… I would have got behind and been patient with Jacko and Holden but jones is so deluded, arrogant and frankly stupid and has assembled this shambles!
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,680
    Kindoncasella said:
    its not the manager its the players and has been since the season when we had good players like Cullen,Bielek,Aribo,Taylor, ect
    Exactly this.
    Our recruitment over the past few years has been absolutely shit. 
    And when we do sign a decent player we sell them
    Blackett Taylor 
    Dobson 
    May
    All sold and replaced by rubbish. 
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,027
    I'm another in the dissatisfied, but don't necessarily want him sacked, camp. 

    I didn't go today, and didn't watch either, but I  wasn’t in the slightest bit surprised to hear the result or read the post match comments. It's all so predictable, and that's a huge problem because it's not only us that knows what's going to happen, but every other manager in the league. We all know what Charlton will try to do, we all know that we'll struggle to score if we go behind, and we all know how Jones will alter the team when that happens. We need to do something different, but either the players don't have the skill or Jones doesn't have the creativity to do that (or, quite possibly both). So, we just keep plodding along playing deathly boring football whilst scraping out 1-0 defeats with the manager pretending we were unlucky.

    I'm never a fan of chopping and changing managers, and feel that it probably takes three or more transfer to really build a decent side. That would also necessitate keeping our best players each time and replacing the worst quarter of the squad with better. Instead, we are in the habit of letting the best ones go, and hoping that their replacements will somehow do better. Somehow, they very rarely are. We have therefore ended up a stagnant husk of the club we should be. 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,380
    Bedsaddick said:
    Scoham said:
    queensland_addick said:
    AFKABartram said:
    I’m fairly sure the majority of us who don’t want him sacked are like that not because we have faith in him to deliver something better, it’s because we have no faith in whoever next would deliver anything better.

    We’ve been broken by the continual production line of shiteness. 

    Such a deflating situation.

    Am I wrong?

    You're not wrong.
    We need someone to have faith in, someone to get behind, someone proven, someone who has the club in his heart.
    Unfortunately, that will always be met by the "never go back" crowd, who want shiteness followed by more shiteness.
    Sometimes the best option is to go back to what actually worked, to stop the decline, and start the rebuild.
    That probably should have happened 10 years ago!
    Go back to who? Do Curbs, Powell or Bowyer want to manage a club again?
    I think Powell could be persuaded to leave the Assistant manager's job at Wednesday. 
    Can’t find it but I’m sure there was an article in which he was quoted around not wanting to manage again.
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 3,804
    Kindoncasella said:
    paulsturgess said:
    Rothko said:
    Cool cool, another change, 6 in 4 years, and all it’s done is wheel spin the club. We're about as clearer example that changing managers constantly does nothing. Next man comes in, fails to get to the play offs, and what, sack them too? 
    This is very valid and is down to the owners. Proper owners would be selecting the manager more carefully, these guys have selected a succession of clowns already in their short tenure and also sanctioned all these atrocious signings. That’s the rooT cause for sure, but that doesn’t make hanging onto somebody evidently so clueless and inept right. Ultimately we need new owners but that is impossible. So the next best solution is the merry go round which managed to land us with bowyer by luck rather than design. I would actually have rather stuck with Holden and wouldn’t have minded giving him a longer period to build something, even though he was doing shite I thought he had the potential, but was criminally under resourced (in a way that Jones hasn’t been) 
    I doubt Bowyer would have done much better with these players. We had such a great team compared to what we have now and the last few seasons. Personally i think a manager is only a minor part of the equation and squad quality being the major bit.
    Again, don’t disagree with most of that. The key point which you seem to be ignoring, and to repeat - this manager specifically assembled this squad! He had the luxury of choosing what he was given and he is a donut to put it politely - which is why every time he talks he sounds like some pissed up lunatic in a Cardiff pub and which is why he thought it would be a good idea to start subbing may off the very game when he came in and to then think he’d be better off with what we have now! 

    I would actually forgive the errors in judgement if I felt there was scope for him to learn and improve, which I think there was with the likes of Jacko and Holden - but I just think jones is such a stubborn, arrogant lunatic I can’t see him even really attempting to adapt
  • RonnieMoore
    RonnieMoore Posts: 4,501
    Its just the start of the rebuild its a 4 year project as we were told by Jones thars why he signed for 4 years... We are at least two more windows from
    being a top 2 side, but that does not mean we can't make too 6 this season cause we can buy are we ready for the championship, the last thing we want is to go up and come straight back down.. Jones like others before him has injuries to deal with that's why changes are being made, at the start of the season we remained unchanged and look at the difference.….  
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 3,804
    RonnieMoore said:
    Its just the start of the rebuild its a 4 year project as we were told by Jones thars why he signed for 4 years... We are at least two more windows from
    being a top 2 side, but that does not mean we can't make too 6 this season cause we can buy are we ready for the championship, the last thing we want is to go up and come straight back down.. Jones like others before him has injuries to deal with that's why changes are being made, at the start of the season we remained unchanged and look at the difference.….  
    😂🙈

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