If Dawson and Woakes had been in their 80s, can you imagine Stokes not continuing?
To be honest yes. But it also wouldn’t happen because Stokes would have told them to go for it and set a target to India to chase in 10 overs. Could have gone spectacularly wrong of course but I think that’s what he would have done
Bashir has a lifetime FC average of 87 wickets at 48.72 and an economy rate of 3.70. Dawson has 371 wickets at 31.54 and an economy rate of 2.85. In the CC last season, Bashir took 4 wickets last season at 116.0 each whereas Dawson took 54 wickets at 25.14 in Division 1 too. Bashir has a batting average of 8.27. Dawson's average is 31.59 with 18 x 100s and 56 x 50s. There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever, on any level, between them as cricketers. Yes Dawson could have bowled better but he has only played one game back and the pitch wasn't a bunsen burner. All all of a sudden some are saying that Bashir would have won us the game despite the fact that he has a best return of 3-167 in this series.
Bashir just hasn't bowled enough to date in his career. Typically, spinners don't develop 'til their late 20s and only then after bowling thousands of overs in different conditions and situations, No county wants him because wickets aren't conducive to spin when CC matches are mostly played now so all his development has been on the international stage. The final nail in the coffin for him is that he can't bat meaning that a side has to have at least two proper all rounders in the team to give the side enough depth. This also means for England that we are constantly looking for a decent number 8 and when Stokes is injured we end up having a tail longer than a Giraffe! Look at what's happened to Hartley at Lancs. He was displaced by an Aussie who doesn't play red ball. Then he comes back and picks up 11 wickets in a game.
Until we change the system for development or from nowhere the English version of Shane Warne appears, this will be the situation we find ourselves in. County age group spinners are encouraged to bowl flat so they don't get hit and won't learn about flight and guile even when they are old enough to play county cricket.
If Dawson and Woakes had been in their 80s, can you imagine Stokes not continuing?
I remember Atherton declaring when Hick was on 99 !! No sentimentality there.
98 and a totally different situation. Hick was told exactly what total Atherton wanted to declare on and Hick decided to block balls instead. India had no chance of winning this game but had the opportunity for two of their batters to get tons and in doing so to get up the noses of England and Stokes specifically. Job done in their eyes.
Dawson has gone from hero to zero on here in record time.
Any team sports - players are always better when they’re not playing.
I dont think any other spinner would have done any better on that track- not against players under no pressure or inclination to score runs at any pace anyway
If Dawson and Woakes had been in their 80s, can you imagine Stokes not continuing?
I remember Atherton declaring when Hick was on 99 !! No sentimentality there.
98 and a totally different situation. Hick was told exactly what total Atherton wanted to declare on and Hick decided to block balls instead. India had no chance of winning this game but had the opportunity for two of their batters to get tons and in doing so to get up the noses of England and Stokes specifically. Job done in their eyes.
I hope Jedaja & Washington's 100's have asterixas next to them saying...." made against pie throwing from Brookes"
If Dawson and Woakes had been in their 80s, can you imagine Stokes not continuing?
I remember Atherton declaring when Hick was on 99 !! No sentimentality there.
98 and a totally different situation. Hick was told exactly what total Atherton wanted to declare on and Hick decided to block balls instead. India had no chance of winning this game but had the opportunity for two of their batters to get tons and in doing so to get up the noses of England and Stokes specifically. Job done in their eyes.
I hope Jedaja & Washington's 100's have asterixas next to them saying...." made against pie throwing from Brookes"
As long as the rest of the England attack is added to that. Such sour grapes. We made a petty protest because we were dog tired and wanted to get off the pitch. India, quite rightly, didn't want to. Why should they?
It's highly unlikely, for another reason, that any such asterisks would be applied in relation to this match - "Jedaja" and "Brookes" weren't even playing.
Just seen that Stokes didn't shake hands with either batsmen at the end. Poor form from a captain
There's a video on Reddit showing him shaking hands before walking in. It's not exactly a hug and compliments, but he did shake both their hands: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/s/xdRalERXRW
I think some are being a little harsh on Dawson. Old Trafford in the last 5 years has spun barely at all. And this pitch was dead as anything.
Yes he was slightly off length at times and missed the rough for the left handers but there really wasn't much there. No chance Bashir does any better there. I am worried about the Ashes though as historically left armers don't do well down under.
Be interesting to see what the rotation of pace bowlers is for the last test, would suspect Atkinson for Carse might be the only change, I don't think from what's been said that Wood is going to make it
Be interesting to see what the rotation of pace bowlers is for the last test, would suspect Atkinson for Carse might be the only change, I don't think from what's been said that Wood is going to make it
Is Archer going to play three Tests on the bounce following such a long lay off or Woakes all five? Is Stokes going to be fit enough to bowl long stints? India have similar issues with the bowlers and presumably Pant won't be playing either.
Be interesting to see what the rotation of pace bowlers is for the last test, would suspect Atkinson for Carse might be the only change, I don't think from what's been said that Wood is going to make it
Is Archer going to play three Tests on the bounce following such a long lay off or Woakes all five? Is Stokes going to be fit enough to bowl long stints? India have similar issues with the bowlers and presumably Pant won't be playing either.
Can see all 3 quicks being rotated. Cook, Atkinson and Overton in. 3 day turnaround will just be too much. Woakes and Carse have played all 4 tests. Archer just shouldn't do 3 back to back
Comments
I appreciate the batters are looking for 100's but the game's done & dusted.
If I was Stokes I'd set funky fields & have stupid bowlers. Jamie Smith for starters.
Then refuse to shake hands when they want to in 3 overs when they get to 100.
Two guys been out there most of the day saving the match for their team, both with 80 plus runs, just give them the pleasure of getting a ton.
Brooks bowling was an embarrassment.
Bashir just hasn't bowled enough to date in his career. Typically, spinners don't develop 'til their late 20s and only then after bowling thousands of overs in different conditions and situations, No county wants him because wickets aren't conducive to spin when CC matches are mostly played now so all his development has been on the international stage. The final nail in the coffin for him is that he can't bat meaning that a side has to have at least two proper all rounders in the team to give the side enough depth. This also means for England that we are constantly looking for a decent number 8 and when Stokes is injured we end up having a tail longer than a Giraffe! Look at what's happened to Hartley at Lancs. He was displaced by an Aussie who doesn't play red ball. Then he comes back and picks up 11 wickets in a game.
Until we change the system for development or from nowhere the English version of Shane Warne appears, this will be the situation we find ourselves in. County age group spinners are encouraged to bowl flat so they don't get hit and won't learn about flight and guile even when they are old enough to play county cricket.
It's highly unlikely, for another reason, that any such asterisks would be applied in relation to this match - "Jedaja" and "Brookes" weren't even playing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/s/xdRalERXRW
Yes he was slightly off length at times and missed the rough for the left handers but there really wasn't much there. No chance Bashir does any better there. I am worried about the Ashes though as historically left armers don't do well down under.