I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

000__Jaaaaay__000 · February 25

hezzla said:

carly burn said:

He certainly needs to bring in a competent attacking coach next season. It's just not his game and he needs to own up to that.
The only striker during his tenure that has had any real effect has been Matty Godden and fortunately he learned his trade elsewhere.
Would Godden have had the career he's had if Jones had him from the start of it?

His Luton team in 2017-18 scored 90 goals in a season, the most in the League 2 that year. Then in 2018-19 they scored 90 goals in League One, the most in the division that season (James Collins with the golden boot - 25 goals. When Jones left in Jan they were already the top scorers in the division). Then in his first full year back at Luton in 2021-22 they scored 63 in the Championship, joint 4th highest, finishing 6th.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that coaching attacking play is "just not his game", just because we've emphasised defensive solidity in the last 2 years. There's more than enough evidence from his 10+ years in management to suggest he can build good attacking sides, given time.

Football has progressed since then, direct football was much more effective than it is now

Sword65pf · February 25

000__Jaaaaay__000 said:

hezzla said:

carly burn said:

He certainly needs to bring in a competent attacking coach next season. It's just not his game and he needs to own up to that.
The only striker during his tenure that has had any real effect has been Matty Godden and fortunately he learned his trade elsewhere.
Would Godden have had the career he's had if Jones had him from the start of it?

His Luton team in 2017-18 scored 90 goals in a season, the most in the League 2 that year. Then in 2018-19 they scored 90 goals in League One, the most in the division that season (James Collins with the golden boot - 25 goals. When Jones left in Jan they were already the top scorers in the division). Then in his first full year back at Luton in 2021-22 they scored 63 in the Championship, joint 4th highest, finishing 6th.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that coaching attacking play is "just not his game", just because we've emphasised defensive solidity in the last 2 years. There's more than enough evidence from his 10+ years in management to suggest he can build good attacking sides, given time.

Football has progressed since then, direct football was much more effective than it is now

To be fair no way does his football now get you close to those goals, so they cant of been playing this football back then, no matter how much the game has changed.

Rothko · February 25

I have to admire some peoples commitment to the bit here, you will die in any ditch to prove Jones isn't any good/not attacking/too defensive/too old/too past it (delete as required)

SouthLincsAddick · February 25

I mean, what is the alternative, do you really want to sack NJ, we have a bottom three players budget. Who are you going to get that will get anymore out of these players? I love these them because they’re Charlton but we lack quality and that reflects our available budget. In Jones I trust. We’re lucky to have him.

NabySarr · February 25

000__Jaaaaay__000 said:

hezzla said:

carly burn said:

He certainly needs to bring in a competent attacking coach next season. It's just not his game and he needs to own up to that.
The only striker during his tenure that has had any real effect has been Matty Godden and fortunately he learned his trade elsewhere.
Would Godden have had the career he's had if Jones had him from the start of it?

His Luton team in 2017-18 scored 90 goals in a season, the most in the League 2 that year. Then in 2018-19 they scored 90 goals in League One, the most in the division that season (James Collins with the golden boot - 25 goals. When Jones left in Jan they were already the top scorers in the division). Then in his first full year back at Luton in 2021-22 they scored 63 in the Championship, joint 4th highest, finishing 6th.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that coaching attacking play is "just not his game", just because we've emphasised defensive solidity in the last 2 years. There's more than enough evidence from his 10+ years in management to suggest he can build good attacking sides, given time.

Football has progressed since then, direct football was much more effective than it is now

Of course football has progressed but direct football is very effective at this level still. Just look at the table and pretty much any team that you’d consider is punching above their weight and having a good season is a team that plays a direct style, Middlesbrough are probably the only exception

NabySarr · February 25

hezzla said:

carly burn said:

He certainly needs to bring in a competent attacking coach next season. It's just not his game and he needs to own up to that.
The only striker during his tenure that has had any real effect has been Matty Godden and fortunately he learned his trade elsewhere.
Would Godden have had the career he's had if Jones had him from the start of it?

His Luton team in 2017-18 scored 90 goals in a season, the most in the League 2 that year. Then in 2018-19 they scored 90 goals in League One, the most in the division that season (James Collins with the golden boot - 25 goals. When Jones left in Jan they were already the top scorers in the division). Then in his first full year back at Luton in 2021-22 they scored 63 in the Championship, joint 4th highest, finishing 6th.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that coaching attacking play is "just not his game", just because we've emphasised defensive solidity in the last 2 years. There's more than enough evidence from his 10+ years in management to suggest he can build good attacking sides, given time.

The first Luton team Jones had played very different style of football to the second Luton team. He is moulding us in a similar style to his second Luton team.

The original Luton team played a 4-4-2 diamond with 2 very attacking full backs that both ended up playing premier league football, and they played very attractive football. They actually had the highest possession in the league that season and the second highest when they won league 1 the season after. Very different to what we watch today but it shows Jones is very capable if he has the players to do it

When Jones went back to Luton they were in a championship relegation battle, he played more direct football. And then in the years following he built a 3-5-2 with 2 big strikers in Morris and Adebayo up top. This is what he has been building us towards since he took over, because I think he knows it’s the best way to play when you have a squad and budget that isn’t as strong as competitors

I think what this all proves is that Jones is a good enough manager to play different styles. He isn’t locked to direct football and was actually very successful playing an attacking and possession based style with Luton in league 1 and league 2. Luton had a good squad for that level, and when they got to the championship that style didn’t work as they no longer had a good squad for the level. When he took over us in league 1 he could have tried to build an attacking possession based team like his first Luton team, it might have worked in league 1, but that style doesn’t translate to success in the championship unless you have a bigger budget like a Birmingham so that you can buy a good squad to play that style in the championship straight away

NabySarr · February 25

NabySarr said:

hezzla said:

carly burn said:

He certainly needs to bring in a competent attacking coach next season. It's just not his game and he needs to own up to that.
The only striker during his tenure that has had any real effect has been Matty Godden and fortunately he learned his trade elsewhere.
Would Godden have had the career he's had if Jones had him from the start of it?

His Luton team in 2017-18 scored 90 goals in a season, the most in the League 2 that year. Then in 2018-19 they scored 90 goals in League One, the most in the division that season (James Collins with the golden boot - 25 goals. When Jones left in Jan they were already the top scorers in the division). Then in his first full year back at Luton in 2021-22 they scored 63 in the Championship, joint 4th highest, finishing 6th.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that coaching attacking play is "just not his game", just because we've emphasised defensive solidity in the last 2 years. There's more than enough evidence from his 10+ years in management to suggest he can build good attacking sides, given time.

The first Luton team Jones had played very different style of football to the second Luton team. He is moulding us in a similar style to his second Luton team.

The original Luton team played a 4-4-2 diamond with 2 very attacking full backs that both ended up playing premier league football, and they played very attractive football. They actually had the highest possession in the league that season and the second highest when they won league 1 the season after. Very different to what we watch today but it shows Jones is very capable if he has the players to do it

When Jones went back to Luton they were in a championship relegation battle, he played more direct football. And then in the years following he built a 3-5-2 with 2 big strikers in Morris and Adebayo up top. This is what he has been building us towards since he took over, because I think he knows it’s the best way to play when you have a squad and budget that isn’t as strong as competitors

I think what this all proves is that Jones is a good enough manager to play different styles. He isn’t locked to direct football and was actually very successful playing an attacking and possession based style with Luton in league 1 and league 2. Luton had a good squad for that level, and when they got to the championship that style didn’t work as they no longer had a good squad for the level. When he took over us in league 1 he could have tried to build an attacking possession based team like his first Luton team, it might have worked in league 1, but that style doesn’t translate to success in the championship unless you have a bigger budget like a Birmingham so that you can buy a good squad to play that style in the championship straight away

This is what frustrates me about a lot of the Jones criticism on here. Lots of comments saying he is too stubborn and can only play direct football that isn’t good enough to progress us up the championship

When looking at his career, he has proven that he can coach attractive and attacking football well, and also that he can progress a team up the championship table playing direct football. So both of these criticisms are wrong if you look at the actual evidence of his career

Elthamaddick · February 25

000__Jaaaaay__000 said:

hezzla said:

carly burn said:

He certainly needs to bring in a competent attacking coach next season. It's just not his game and he needs to own up to that.
The only striker during his tenure that has had any real effect has been Matty Godden and fortunately he learned his trade elsewhere.
Would Godden have had the career he's had if Jones had him from the start of it?

His Luton team in 2017-18 scored 90 goals in a season, the most in the League 2 that year. Then in 2018-19 they scored 90 goals in League One, the most in the division that season (James Collins with the golden boot - 25 goals. When Jones left in Jan they were already the top scorers in the division). Then in his first full year back at Luton in 2021-22 they scored 63 in the Championship, joint 4th highest, finishing 6th.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that coaching attacking play is "just not his game", just because we've emphasised defensive solidity in the last 2 years. There's more than enough evidence from his 10+ years in management to suggest he can build good attacking sides, given time.

Football has progressed since then, direct football was much more effective than it is now

it's progressed back to the long throw in and 20 players piling in on the keeper from a corner....

raytreacy · February 25

Rothko said:

I have to admire some peoples commitment to the bit here, you will die in any ditch to prove Jones isn't any good/not attacking/too defensive/too old/too past it (delete as required)

You will die in any ditch to prove that Jones is good. It cuts both ways. I hope I am proved wrong and we stay up and Jones makes us a success next season . I will come on here and say I was wrong.

raytreacy · February 25

SouthLincsAddick said:

I mean, what is the alternative, do you really want to sack NJ, we have a bottom three players budget. Who are you going to get that will get anymore out of these players? I love these them because they’re Charlton but we lack quality and that reflects our available budget. In Jones I trust. We’re lucky to have him.

That is a really lazy argument. I think there are a number of managers out there who would improve us.

Leuth · February 25

Very few of us want NJ sacked now. If we stay up, very few of us will want him sacked then either. But we've absolutely spawned most of our points recently and if the worm turns we could very easily lose 6 games in a row and go down. And who will want him sacked then? Most of us. This is the thread for expressing concern about the sustainability of our play this season, not next

Rothko · February 25

raytreacy said:

Rothko said:

I have to admire some peoples commitment to the bit here, you will die in any ditch to prove Jones isn't any good/not attacking/too defensive/too old/too past it (delete as required)

You will die in any ditch to prove that Jones is good. It cuts both ways. I hope I am proved wrong and we stay up and Jones makes us a success next season . I will come on here and say I was wrong.

proper, I know you are, what am I, type response.

I think he's the right man for the job, is doing what is required at the moment to keep us in the division. I also said if it's the same in a years time, then questions need asking and answering. You on the other hand think this is worse then Slade, Robinson, Fraeye and Adkins, and won't come and watch us.

thenewbie · February 25

raytreacy said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

I mean, what is the alternative, do you really want to sack NJ, we have a bottom three players budget. Who are you going to get that will get anymore out of these players? I love these them because they’re Charlton but we lack quality and that reflects our available budget. In Jones I trust. We’re lucky to have him.

That is a really lazy argument. I think there are a number of managers out there who would improve us.

Such as? Not sarcasm, I'm genuinely curious as to who is out there who would be willing to come here and would also do much better than Jones with these players.

Scoham · February 25

raytreacy said:

Rothko said:

I have to admire some peoples commitment to the bit here, you will die in any ditch to prove Jones isn't any good/not attacking/too defensive/too old/too past it (delete as required)

You will die in any ditch to prove that Jones is good. It cuts both ways. I hope I am proved wrong and we stay up and Jones makes us a success next season . I will come on here and say I was wrong.

He’s one of our best managers in the last 20 years since Curbs alongside Powell and Bowyer.

Who are the managers you think would be better out of interest? Genuine question. Is this purely about style of play? Because there’s no argument that he hasn’t progressed the club significantly over the last two years.

paulsturgess · February 25

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

paulsturgess said:

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

We have a low budget but don't think we definitively have a bottom 3 budget, Preston have a similar or maybe even lower budget than us and actually budget is highly relevant but ultimately you have to judge a teams performance Vs the players available to them on the pitch not their budget

we have Campbell, Leaburn and Carey for example who probably worth £10m + between them but cost nothing budget or wages (not to mention LJ) but I still have an expectation on a manager with those resources available to achieve from them, conversely some of the top teams have very highly paid / costly dead wood lingering about but doesn't necessarily make it easy if they're dealt that hand

personally I think the players and team we have are, or could be performing better than we have been, that's my opinion and therefore I'd like to see Jones get more from them, whilst also being conscious that i'm sure there are many managers out there who'd get them doing worse

I don't particularly like it as a framework as there's a lot of guesswork involved but here is Transfermarkt's opinion of the lowest 10 squads by squad value. It suggests our squad is pretty weak compared to those we are scrapping it out with

These are generally nonsense

Femi Azeez rated at £2m, but they rejected bids of £12m

no chance Wednesdays squad is worth anything like that sum

Not worth referring to.

That's fine but you still haven't answered my question about who (beyond Wednesday) in that list has a worse squad than us

I don’t know enough to comment with proper qualification however I know our own squad and players intricately and definitively feel they could be performing better than they are

I also know that

- we’ve been given the gift of Wednesday this season so there are only 2 spots below us
- Preston have had a strong season despite having a poor budget possibly lower than ours
- the teams down there with us are a financial mess - Blackburn can’t spend , Oxford have a lower budget, Leicester transfer embargo and points deduction, WBA are all over the place, had to sell all players couldn’t reinvest and may go into admin in summer. Hull have been under a two window transfer embargo. Some of the wages will be bigger but overall on budget/ conditions terms I expect most of the above would probably argue we have been in a better place / circumstances than them this season. We’re about where we should be expected, in my opinion, and I personally feel we could have done a bit better and have been extremely fortunate with a couple of results which otherwise would see us in the relegation places.

we’ve not given up and have produced occasional glimmers of light and clearly it’s fucking tough for anyone coming up in any circumstance, so it’s not all bad but I also think it didn’t have to be how it has

NabySarr · February 25

paulsturgess said:

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

paulsturgess said:

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

We have a low budget but don't think we definitively have a bottom 3 budget, Preston have a similar or maybe even lower budget than us and actually budget is highly relevant but ultimately you have to judge a teams performance Vs the players available to them on the pitch not their budget

we have Campbell, Leaburn and Carey for example who probably worth £10m + between them but cost nothing budget or wages (not to mention LJ) but I still have an expectation on a manager with those resources available to achieve from them, conversely some of the top teams have very highly paid / costly dead wood lingering about but doesn't necessarily make it easy if they're dealt that hand

personally I think the players and team we have are, or could be performing better than we have been, that's my opinion and therefore I'd like to see Jones get more from them, whilst also being conscious that i'm sure there are many managers out there who'd get them doing worse

I don't particularly like it as a framework as there's a lot of guesswork involved but here is Transfermarkt's opinion of the lowest 10 squads by squad value. It suggests our squad is pretty weak compared to those we are scrapping it out with

These are generally nonsense

Femi Azeez rated at £2m, but they rejected bids of £12m

no chance Wednesdays squad is worth anything like that sum

Not worth referring to.

That's fine but you still haven't answered my question about who (beyond Wednesday) in that list has a worse squad than us

I don’t know enough to comment with proper qualification however I know our own squad and players intricately and definitively feel they could be performing better than they are

I also know that

- we’ve been given the gift of Wednesday this season so there are only 2 spots below us
- Preston have had a strong season despite having a poor budget possibly lower than ours
- the teams down there with us are a financial mess - Blackburn can’t spend , Oxford have a lower budget, Leicester transfer embargo and points deduction, WBA are all over the place, had to sell all players couldn’t reinvest and may go into admin in summer. Hull have been under a two window transfer embargo. Some of the wages will be bigger but overall on budget/ conditions terms I expect most of the above would probably argue we have been in a better place / circumstances than them this season. We’re about where we should be expected, in my opinion, and I personally feel we could have done a bit better and have been extremely fortunate with a couple of results which otherwise would see us in the relegation places.

we’ve not given up and have produced occasional glimmers of light and clearly it’s fucking tough for anyone coming up in any circumstance, so it’s not all bad but I also think it didn’t have to be how it has

I’m sorry but there’s no way Preston have a smaller budget than ours. They supposedly paid Thierry Small a wage that would make him one of our highest earners and he’s a squad player for them, they’ve been in the championship for years and years and every year is the £10m TV money that we’ve only had one year of

We have a bottom 3 budget, Sheffield Wednesday have the lowest and they are 24th, Oxford have the next lowest and are 23rd, then it’s probably us and we are 17th

SouthLincsAddick · February 25

raytreacy said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

I mean, what is the alternative, do you really want to sack NJ, we have a bottom three players budget. Who are you going to get that will get anymore out of these players? I love these them because they’re Charlton but we lack quality and that reflects our available budget. In Jones I trust. We’re lucky to have him.

That is a really lazy argument. I think there are a number of managers out there who would improve us.

Wow, thank god you don’t own us, you sound like the owner of Forest!

SouthLincsAddick · February 25

paulsturgess said:

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

paulsturgess said:

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

We have a low budget but don't think we definitively have a bottom 3 budget, Preston have a similar or maybe even lower budget than us and actually budget is highly relevant but ultimately you have to judge a teams performance Vs the players available to them on the pitch not their budget

we have Campbell, Leaburn and Carey for example who probably worth £10m + between them but cost nothing budget or wages (not to mention LJ) but I still have an expectation on a manager with those resources available to achieve from them, conversely some of the top teams have very highly paid / costly dead wood lingering about but doesn't necessarily make it easy if they're dealt that hand

personally I think the players and team we have are, or could be performing better than we have been, that's my opinion and therefore I'd like to see Jones get more from them, whilst also being conscious that i'm sure there are many managers out there who'd get them doing worse

I don't particularly like it as a framework as there's a lot of guesswork involved but here is Transfermarkt's opinion of the lowest 10 squads by squad value. It suggests our squad is pretty weak compared to those we are scrapping it out with

These are generally nonsense

Femi Azeez rated at £2m, but they rejected bids of £12m

no chance Wednesdays squad is worth anything like that sum

Not worth referring to.

That's fine but you still haven't answered my question about who (beyond Wednesday) in that list has a worse squad than us

I don’t know enough to comment with proper qualification however I know our own squad and players intricately and definitively feel they could be performing better than they are

I also know that

- we’ve been given the gift of Wednesday this season so there are only 2 spots below us
- Preston have had a strong season despite having a poor budget possibly lower than ours
- the teams down there with us are a financial mess - Blackburn can’t spend , Oxford have a lower budget, Leicester transfer embargo and points deduction, WBA are all over the place, had to sell all players couldn’t reinvest and may go into admin in summer. Hull have been under a two window transfer embargo. Some of the wages will be bigger but overall on budget/ conditions terms I expect most of the above would probably argue we have been in a better place / circumstances than them this season. We’re about where we should be expected, in my opinion, and I personally feel we could have done a bit better and have been extremely fortunate with a couple of results which otherwise would see us in the relegation places.

we’ve not given up and have produced occasional glimmers of light and clearly it’s fucking tough for anyone coming up in any circumstance, so it’s not all bad but I also think it didn’t have to be how it has

Here fixed it for you:

”What I don’t know: a lot”

How can Preston, Oxford and Shef Weds all have lower budgets than us when Rodwell has confirmed we have a bottom three budget?
Other teams might have embargo’s but they can sign frees on big wages, and the budget difference between them and us is vast!

FishCostaFortune · February 25

Preston have been in the Championship for 10 years! Not sure why people are using them as a barometer to compare this Charlton side under Jones with.

superclive98 · February 25

Dazzler21 said:

superclive98 said:

Serious question for all those that hate the way we play: -

Would you be happy to switch the entire Millwall team/squad and manager, if you like, for ours?

I mean they've got a team that has been cultivated at this level for years. Still a no though as we'd just be Millwall in red shirts then.

raytreacy said:

superclive98 said:

Serious question for all those that hate the way we play: -

Would you be happy to switch the entire Millwall team/squad and manager, if you like, for ours?

Yes.

And there you have it. Hardly anyone prepared to answer.
Dazzler is spot on that Millwall have a team cultivated over years. Millwall have been in this division for 8 years and they play a style of football not too different from ours. They sre just better at it.

paulsturgess · February 25

SouthLincsAddick said:

paulsturgess said:

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

paulsturgess said:

fenaddick said:

paulsturgess said:

We have a low budget but don't think we definitively have a bottom 3 budget, Preston have a similar or maybe even lower budget than us and actually budget is highly relevant but ultimately you have to judge a teams performance Vs the players available to them on the pitch not their budget

we have Campbell, Leaburn and Carey for example who probably worth £10m + between them but cost nothing budget or wages (not to mention LJ) but I still have an expectation on a manager with those resources available to achieve from them, conversely some of the top teams have very highly paid / costly dead wood lingering about but doesn't necessarily make it easy if they're dealt that hand

personally I think the players and team we have are, or could be performing better than we have been, that's my opinion and therefore I'd like to see Jones get more from them, whilst also being conscious that i'm sure there are many managers out there who'd get them doing worse

I don't particularly like it as a framework as there's a lot of guesswork involved but here is Transfermarkt's opinion of the lowest 10 squads by squad value. It suggests our squad is pretty weak compared to those we are scrapping it out with

These are generally nonsense

Femi Azeez rated at £2m, but they rejected bids of £12m

no chance Wednesdays squad is worth anything like that sum

Not worth referring to.

That's fine but you still haven't answered my question about who (beyond Wednesday) in that list has a worse squad than us

I don’t know enough to comment with proper qualification however I know our own squad and players intricately and definitively feel they could be performing better than they are

I also know that

- we’ve been given the gift of Wednesday this season so there are only 2 spots below us
- Preston have had a strong season despite having a poor budget possibly lower than ours
- the teams down there with us are a financial mess - Blackburn can’t spend , Oxford have a lower budget, Leicester transfer embargo and points deduction, WBA are all over the place, had to sell all players couldn’t reinvest and may go into admin in summer. Hull have been under a two window transfer embargo. Some of the wages will be bigger but overall on budget/ conditions terms I expect most of the above would probably argue we have been in a better place / circumstances than them this season. We’re about where we should be expected, in my opinion, and I personally feel we could have done a bit better and have been extremely fortunate with a couple of results which otherwise would see us in the relegation places.

we’ve not given up and have produced occasional glimmers of light and clearly it’s fucking tough for anyone coming up in any circumstance, so it’s not all bad but I also think it didn’t have to be how it has

Here fixed it for you:

”What I don’t know: a lot”

How can Preston, Oxford and Shef Weds all have lower budgets than us when Rodwell has confirmed we have a bottom three budget?
Other teams might have embargo’s but they can sign frees on big wages, and the budget difference between them and us is vast!

preston’s net spend in the last 5 seasons is £10m and they barely sold anyone. Maybe their wage bill is a bit higher but they spent nothing like us this season or previous seasons.

I don’t think Oxford or Pompey spent much either.

As I say. I’m pretty sure there are several clubs who would feel we have had a much better budget/ circumstances than they this season.

oohaahmortimer · February 25

Since the January window, is our budget higher or lower than third bottom or has that not been stated

paulsturgess · February 25

FishCostaFortune said:

Preston have been in the Championship for 10 years! Not sure why people are using them as a barometer to compare this Charlton side under Jones with.

because people are comparing budgets and we will have spent much more in total this season on transfer fees and wages combined than they have on transfer fees and wages combined.

that is a definitive fact.

I'm not saying that means we should be as good as them but it's dull all the Jones disciples only entertaining narratives that do not in any way challenge him, and bandying around incorrect statements to support this narrative

paulsturgess · February 25

Eg. somebody used transfermarkt to justify earlier. Transfermarkt (ridiculous source) tells us that we have spent more this season than pompey have last season and this season combined!!

paulsturgess · February 25

To repeat, I don't think jones should be sacked and don't think he's done a terrible job. However, I don't think he's done an incredible job this season and certainly hasn't overperformed against the odds as some are convinced here!

NabySarr · February 25

paulsturgess said:

FishCostaFortune said:

Preston have been in the Championship for 10 years! Not sure why people are using them as a barometer to compare this Charlton side under Jones with.

because people are comparing budgets and we will have spent much more in total this season on transfer fees and wages combined than they have on transfer fees and wages combined.

that is a definitive fact.

I'm not saying that means we should be as good as them but it's dull all the Jones disciples only entertaining narratives that do not in any way challenge him, and bandying around incorrect statements to support this narrative

Is it? You’ve just made it up

BigDiddy · February 25

I don't understand how we can play like we did in the last 3 games….Pompey [abysmal]; Saints [Brilliant]; WBA [abysmal]. I am sure that NJ does not set out to play crap, but the issue for me is about the level of performance in some games against teams we are at least as good as.

We set up last night “not to concede” and we were just so negative against a terrible side. We invited the goal they eventually scored. Yes, he changed it and Dykes scored a brilliant equaliser, but we were second best in every department last night. Thats the bit I do not get.

Is it a case of the players being “tired”, or complacent, or not up to it? If they were tired or complacent, he should have made changes much earlier.

I do not agree that last night’s team was not capable, because of what they did at the Saints only 3 days ago.

He needs to use more of the squad and mix up his tactics, team set up and in-game management, in my view. We should have grabbed hold of that game last night from the outset - why did we not do so ?

We are so predictable that other teams, even bad ones like Pompey and WBA can nullify our tactics and dominate games - that is what we witnessed.

NJ has been an amazing success for us and I do not want him sacked. That does not means, as fans, we should not criticise the bleeding obvious.

Good players like Kelman, Fullah, JRC have been frozen out and in my view that harms the team.

It’s not about money [we have achieved great results against teams worth much more than us] or the fact that we only got promoted last season - I think they are excuses when we look at these last 3 games.

Mix it up NJ and use that squad. I am not saying we go “Gung-ho”, but we also do not need to sit back at the edge of our box and lump the ball to Dykes who is often on his own.

We will get battered by Wrexham on Saturday, or we may play a blinder - I doubt even NJ knows.

paulsturgess · February 25

NabySarr said:

paulsturgess said:

FishCostaFortune said:

Preston have been in the Championship for 10 years! Not sure why people are using them as a barometer to compare this Charlton side under Jones with.

because people are comparing budgets and we will have spent much more in total this season on transfer fees and wages combined than they have on transfer fees and wages combined.

that is a definitive fact.

I'm not saying that means we should be as good as them but it's dull all the Jones disciples only entertaining narratives that do not in any way challenge him, and bandying around incorrect statements to support this narrative

Is it? You’ve just made it up

I haven't Naby... why do you say that? I'm sure if you research it for yourself you can near enough clarify the broad point yourself.

Did I also make up Hull's transfer embargos, Sheffield Wednesday's points deduction, Blackburn's chaotic ownership/management/squad situation?!

I'm merely encouraging people to consider how we're doing with a bit more of an open mind as it seems clear, from your statement alone there, that anything that paints Jones in a less than godlike-light is just dismissed.

NabySarr · February 25

paulsturgess said:

NabySarr said:

paulsturgess said:

FishCostaFortune said:

Preston have been in the Championship for 10 years! Not sure why people are using them as a barometer to compare this Charlton side under Jones with.

because people are comparing budgets and we will have spent much more in total this season on transfer fees and wages combined than they have on transfer fees and wages combined.

that is a definitive fact.

I'm not saying that means we should be as good as them but it's dull all the Jones disciples only entertaining narratives that do not in any way challenge him, and bandying around incorrect statements to support this narrative

Is it? You’ve just made it up

I haven't Naby... why do you say that? I'm sure if you research it for yourself you can near enough clarify the broad point yourself.

Did I also make up Hull's transfer embargos, Sheffield Wednesday's points deduction, Blackburn's chaotic ownership/management/squad situation?!

I'm merely encouraging people to consider how we're doing with a bit more of an open mind as it seems clear, from your statement alone there, that anything that paints Jones in a less than godlike-light is just dismissed.

You stated that our transfer and wage bill is higher than Preston’s. You don’t know what Preston have spent on wages and transfers this season and you don’t know what we have. So yes you’ve made it up, it’s an opinion or an estimate, definitely not a fact

We’ve spent around £10m maybe on transfer fees, Preston probably half of that but as everything is undisclosed it’s hard to say for sure. They broke their record transfer fee in January. Again we don’t know the numbers but I would imagine that their wage bill is much higher than ours and would take their total spend above ours even with our transfer expenditure

If you then add in the fact that transfer fees are paid over the full length of contract rather than up front, I would imagine Preston’s spending would be miles ahead of ours for this season

If we had a higher budget than Preston, then Thierry Small would probably still play for us. Or we wouldn’t have lost out to them in signing Offiah in the summer

paulsturgess · February 25

NabySarr said:

paulsturgess said:

NabySarr said:

paulsturgess said:

FishCostaFortune said:

Preston have been in the Championship for 10 years! Not sure why people are using them as a barometer to compare this Charlton side under Jones with.

because people are comparing budgets and we will have spent much more in total this season on transfer fees and wages combined than they have on transfer fees and wages combined.

that is a definitive fact.

I'm not saying that means we should be as good as them but it's dull all the Jones disciples only entertaining narratives that do not in any way challenge him, and bandying around incorrect statements to support this narrative

Is it? You’ve just made it up

I haven't Naby... why do you say that? I'm sure if you research it for yourself you can near enough clarify the broad point yourself.

Did I also make up Hull's transfer embargos, Sheffield Wednesday's points deduction, Blackburn's chaotic ownership/management/squad situation?!

I'm merely encouraging people to consider how we're doing with a bit more of an open mind as it seems clear, from your statement alone there, that anything that paints Jones in a less than godlike-light is just dismissed.

You stated that our transfer and wage bill is higher than Preston’s. You don’t know what Preston have spent on wages and transfers this season and you don’t know what we have. So yes you’ve made it up, it’s an opinion or an estimate, definitely not a fact

We’ve spent around £10m maybe on transfer fees, Preston probably half of that but as everything is undisclosed it’s hard to say for sure. They broke their record transfer fee in January. Again we don’t know the numbers but I would imagine that their wage bill is much higher than ours and would take their total spend above ours even with our transfer expenditure

If we had a higher budget than Preston, then Thierry Small would probably still play for us. Or we wouldn’t have lost out to them in signing Offiah in the summer

Come on mate. Come on, you're making yourself look silly here. You can admit something here, there's no shame in being wrong - I was wrong about sacking Jones last December.

https://the72.co.uk/2025/09/05/preston-north-end-transfers-every-deal-done-season/

Preston spent £1.8m. We spent £10m as you say. You can't really be suggesting they spend more than £8m a year more than us on wages??? Lols as the kids say.

(This Small thing is silly. Been round in circles about this. We could have paid Small if we'd wanted from that £10m. Jones didn't want to for his own reasons, fair enough.)

I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

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