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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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Yeh really not sure about that. The only hint of meaningful complaint I can remember from that season was the Stevenage game when Powell tried to be a bit too clever and put Morrison RB instead of Sollyshine166 said:
Did that really ever happen ? BwP was the bollox and we finished with over 100 points.WSS said:paulsturgess said:
Eh? You honestly can’t see or understand why people are moaning after that?NabySarr said:Some of our fans are an embarrassment and deserve to get relegated back to league 1 and stay there.2 years ago 20th in league 1, tonight 17th in the championship and still moaning because we didn’t play well enough in our away draw. The entitlement is crazy. To have called for his head once is silly, to do it again this season is just embarrassing. To still be moaning after tonight, honestly just fuck off because you’ll never be happyA late post so will assume benefit of the doubt you must have had a few during the course of the evening cos that is unhinged
I remember people “moaning” about our style of football when we won the league with Powell.1 -
It's fine to moan about the performance, and to be fair i'm not sure i've seen anyone on here claim that the performance was anything other than terrible. But at this point in the season it's pretty clear that the result is more important than the performance.paulsturgess said:ProperCharlton said:It isn't pretty but it's effective.
really?! we somehow burgled a point thanks to their moment of madness defending so we got a point
but as a performance that was as ineffective as it's possible to conceive of against a team in that form who we almost made look like play off chasers at moments
we are so so bad. Come on, surely we can offer more than that? Do we really need to be that awful, that negative, that non league? We looked like an isthmian league team turning up in a cup 3rd round game going for a shock
I think everyone on here would prefer a shit performance that ends in us getting a point, over us playing really well, creating a lot of chances and losing.
Case in point, Blackburn last night. 19 shots, 7 on target, xG of 2.2.......lost 2-1 at home. Do you think they'd have preferred a horrible, scrappy point?7 -
Who mentioned Jones out?? 99% are sick of these awful performences week after week and are moaning about that.WSS said:
Moan about the performance, fine - calling for Jones’ head after one defeat in 6 seem off. I think some people are just entrenched in their views, tie the way of the world.paulsturgess said:
Eh? You honestly can’t see or understand why people are moaning after that?NabySarr said:Some of our fans are an embarrassment and deserve to get relegated back to league 1 and stay there.2 years ago 20th in league 1, tonight 17th in the championship and still moaning because we didn’t play well enough in our away draw. The entitlement is crazy. To have called for his head once is silly, to do it again this season is just embarrassing. To still be moaning after tonight, honestly just fuck off because you’ll never be happyA late post so will assume benefit of the doubt you must have had a few during the course of the evening cos that is unhinged
I remember people “moaning” about our style of football when we won the league with Powell.
Yes he got us promoted last year but only after people ripped the shit out of the exact same we play now against the likes of Bristol Rovers, Exeter and Crawley. He finally went a bit more attacking and the rest is history. No one is expecting free flowing attacking football, just a tiny bit of actual football would be nice.
You can tell everyone has had enough the Valley has the league 1 crowd look about it again. It's also very hard for the fans who travel up and down the country who spend shit loads of money to watch that so called football. I suggest a load on here try and see how long they last.
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Apparently being critical of the BS football we see week on week, means you want Jones sacked. Usually an opinion expressed by the same people who thougt Jones was a tactical genius when we won our first game in 3 months.6
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Im not calling for his head to be clear (again). I think he will keep us up.WSS said:
Moan about the performance, fine - calling for Jones’ head after one defeat in 6 seem off. I think some people are just entrenched in their views, tie the way of the world.paulsturgess said:
Eh? You honestly can’t see or understand why people are moaning after that?NabySarr said:Some of our fans are an embarrassment and deserve to get relegated back to league 1 and stay there.2 years ago 20th in league 1, tonight 17th in the championship and still moaning because we didn’t play well enough in our away draw. The entitlement is crazy. To have called for his head once is silly, to do it again this season is just embarrassing. To still be moaning after tonight, honestly just fuck off because you’ll never be happyA late post so will assume benefit of the doubt you must have had a few during the course of the evening cos that is unhinged
I remember people “moaning” about our style of football when we won the league with Powell.However, the tactics, selection and resulting performance were absolutely awful, and we deserved to lose the match - a result which would have been pretty disastrous so it’s completely reasonable and in fact absolutely necessary to be considering that when keeping the situation under review and would be negligent to just look at the result on teletext and go “draw at West Brom, that’s fine”.If somebody is driving at 100mph on
the motorway they don’t get let off a fine just because they didn’t actually have a crash; the actions they were taking put them at serious risk of causing a crash so they suffer the consequences.
I just want to stay up by any route this season so I don’t care if it’s a travesty, but I am also paying attention to the route and what that might mean for the future and if I think the actions are in danger of causing us to crash I’m going to pay attention to that.I don’t want Jones sacked, but I’m keeping him
under review. To me, that is rational, looking solely and exclusively at how the table reads in the paper this morning without more nuanced analysis isn’t2 -
We have won 2 of the last 20 league games we have played against 11 men (so not including Leicester and Sheffield Utd), picking up 12 points. We beat Stoke and Oxford 1-0.
That run includes games v Blackburn, West Brom, Pompey x2 and Norwich amongst others.
I am really struggling to see where the 9-12 points we need from the last 12 games are going to come from.
We really are pinning all hopes on beating Wednesday and Oxford and then playing another team of 9 or 10 players aren't we?3 -
Thats what the 1st post, 132 pages ago was saying, its not 1000 posts of people demanding him be sacked.WSS said:
This is a thread about Jones being sacked.shine166 said:Apparently being critical of the BS football we see week on week, means you want Jones sacked. Usually an opinion expressed by the same people who thougt Jones was a tactical genius when we won our first game in 3 months.0 -
Yeah and no one has mentioned it this season. Last season I wanted him gone and it wont be long before I want him out again if this dross continues. He has done the same as last season and divided the fans, some believe crap football crap tactics, the others believe necessary tactics to keep us in the division. The majority of fans who hate his tactics don't want him gone, just want him to be a bit more positive.3
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Nathan Jones the Welsh Diego Simeone, boring organised defensive football is it great to watch no it isn't, is it affective and gets results yes it does. Yesterday we were bad but we got a point, we played great against QPR and Stoke, football is up and down you will never play good every game.1
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We played great against QPR and Stoke? No we didn’t we looked how we always look under Jones. Lacking in creativity and ideas. Ball constantly played in the air to two big players. We never seem to go out to win a game. Even against such a poor team as WBA. He sets the team up not to lose the game.TD_Addick said:Nathan Jones the Welsh Diego Simeone, boring organised defensive football is it great to watch no it isn't, is it affective and gets results yes it does. Yesterday we were bad but we got a point, we played great against QPR and Stoke, football is up and down you will never play good every game.
If Jones can make us safe that is great. But I don’t want to watch another season of hoofball. I have had a S/T since we came back to the Valley but I will not be buying one next season if Jones is in charge.
Why do people keep on harking back to the play offs? In football you are only as good as your last game.5 -
This years' experience watching Charlton is so bad it's going to stop you getting a ST for the first time in 34 years?! After all we've had to "suffer"?raytreacy said:
We played great against QPR and Stoke? No we didn’t we looked how we always look under Jones. Lacking in creativity and ideas. Ball constantly played in the air to two big players. We never seem to go out to win a game. Even against such a poor team as WBA. He sets the team up not to lose the game.TD_Addick said:Nathan Jones the Welsh Diego Simeone, boring organised defensive football is it great to watch no it isn't, is it affective and gets results yes it does. Yesterday we were bad but we got a point, we played great against QPR and Stoke, football is up and down you will never play good every game.
If Jones can make us safe that is great. But I don’t want to watch another season of hoofball. I have had a S/T since we came back to the Valley but I will not be buying one next season if Jones is in charge.
Why do people keep on harking back to the play offs? In football you are only as good as your last game.16 -
In my opinion we played good against them yes we created chances played with energy and defended well. We have a team of unproven championship players and loaned players who were bench warmers for thier previous clubs playing established teams. I agree I want more exciting football and maybe change will happen one day but for now we are doing well with what we have.2
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TD_Addick said:Nathan Jones the Welsh Diego Simeone, boring organised defensive football is it great to watch no it isn't, is it affective and gets results yes it does. Yesterday we were bad but we got a point, we played great against QPR and Stoke, football is up and down you will never play good every game.
I thought the Stole game was played at the pace and interest of a pre season friendly. Thankfully their players were simply not up for it at all and ravaged by injury, so we won and everyone was happy. Had the goal gone the other way people would have been very upset with the lack of intensity or quality from us for the 90 minutes imo.
I'm of course happy with the 3 points in the game but just talking purely about the performance.0 -
I really dislike this framing. Those players didn't get sent off in a vacuum, our play contributed to them making stupid decisions because in that moment we had the beating of them. You can't just discount something that happened in a game because it doesn't suit a narrative. Would we have beaten Sheff Utd without the reds? Probably not but they wouldn't have got the reds if we hadn't royally wound them up before handAthletico Charlton said:We have won 2 of the last 20 league games we have played against 11 men (so not including Leicester and Sheffield Utd), picking up 12 points. We beat Stoke and Oxford 1-0.
That run includes games v Blackburn, West Brom, Pompey x2 and Norwich amongst others.
I am really struggling to see where the 9-12 points we need from the last 12 games are going to come from.
We really are pinning all hopes on beating Wednesday and Oxford and then playing another team of 9 or 10 players aren't we?8 -
That just isn't true, there have been loads of people calling for him to be sacked. I'm pretty sure I read it on here last night!Nicholas said:Yeah and no one has mentioned it this season. Last season I wanted him gone and it wont be long before I want him out again if this dross continues. He has done the same as last season and divided the fans, some believe crap football crap tactics, the others believe necessary tactics to keep us in the division. The majority of fans who hate his tactics don't want him gone, just want him to be a bit more positive.10 -
This thread is full of people wanting him sacked recently. Sure it will be active again next season when people want to be wrong a 3rd timeNicholas said:Yeah and no one has mentioned it this season. Last season I wanted him gone and it wont be long before I want him out again if this dross continues. He has done the same as last season and divided the fans, some believe crap football crap tactics, the others believe necessary tactics to keep us in the division. The majority of fans who hate his tactics don't want him gone, just want him to be a bit more positive.1 -
99% of people have no interest or concern in being proved right. I can't tell you how ecstatically happy I was to be proved wrong last seasonNabySarr said:
This thread is full of people wanting him sacked recently. Sure it will be active again next season when people want to be wrong a 3rd timeNicholas said:Yeah and no one has mentioned it this season. Last season I wanted him gone and it wont be long before I want him out again if this dross continues. He has done the same as last season and divided the fans, some believe crap football crap tactics, the others believe necessary tactics to keep us in the division. The majority of fans who hate his tactics don't want him gone, just want him to be a bit more positive.
people desperately want the club and the team to succeed and when alarm bells start sounding they react, it's natural and reasonable5 -
We have a bottom three players budget and currently we are not bottom three, I think there’s very few managers who could pull this off. If we survive it will get easier and budgets will increase. We obviously lack quality, nearly every other team have more skilful players but we play to our strengths rather than weaknesses. West Brom could string a few passes together and created chances, more than us, yet they didn’t beat us and that resilience is the best chance we have of survival.
When we were challenging for the playoffs at the start to the season I couldn’t believe fans were moaning about us not scoring enough goals, as if we could compete with the budgets of other Championship teams. We can’t afford to buy the quality so we focus on being defensive and organised, getting the best chance of a result with the quality we have. Injuries and other teams working out how we play has meant we’ve had to become more attritional, and so be it. I’d rather watch that than return to that dog dirt L1. Obviously some fans wouldn’t mind and would like to go down playing expansive and suicidal football.6 -
raytreacy said:
We played great against QPR and Stoke? No we didn’t we looked how we always look under Jones. Lacking in creativity and ideas. Ball constantly played in the air to two big players. We never seem to go out to win a game. Even against such a poor team as WBA. He sets the team up not to lose the game.TD_Addick said:Nathan Jones the Welsh Diego Simeone, boring organised defensive football is it great to watch no it isn't, is it affective and gets results yes it does. Yesterday we were bad but we got a point, we played great against QPR and Stoke, football is up and down you will never play good every game.
If Jones can make us safe that is great. But I don’t want to watch another season of hoofball. I have had a S/T since we came back to the Valley but I will not be buying one next season if Jones is in charge.
Why do people keep on harking back to the play offs? In football you are only as good as your last game.
This is famously a comment on how short-termist and unreasonable football fans (and owners) often are. It is in no way supposed to be template for how to think.
It is entirely reasonable and sensible to judge Jones' performance in the full context of what we have achieved since he arrived, and indeed where we have spent most of the last 20 years imo.
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We have a low budget but don't think we definitively have a bottom 3 budget, Preston have a similar or maybe even lower budget than us and actually budget is highly relevant but ultimately you have to judge a teams performance Vs the players available to them on the pitch not their budget
we have Campbell, Leaburn and Carey for example who probably worth £10m + between them but cost nothing budget or wages (not to mention LJ) but I still have an expectation on a manager with those resources available to achieve from them, conversely some of the top teams have very highly paid / costly dead wood lingering about but doesn't necessarily make it easy if they're dealt that hand
personally I think the players and team we have are, or could be performing better than we have been, that's my opinion and therefore I'd like to see Jones get more from them, whilst also being conscious that i'm sure there are many managers out there who'd get them doing worse0 -
Exactly this. I have supported the Club for 65 years home and away. I put a four figure sum into the the VIP scheme to get us back to the Valley. I spent a five figure sum buying Charlton shares which were declared valueless. I have always wanted what is best for the Club. I honestly believe that if we want to take the club forward next season we need a new manager and one who can play more progresively. I know that a lot of posters are loyal to Jones and that is admirable. But I don’t think he is the right man. I should be able to voice that opinion without ridicule.paulsturgess said:
99% of people have no interest or concern in being proved right. I can't tell you how ecstatically happy I was to be proved wrong last seasonNabySarr said:
This thread is full of people wanting him sacked recently. Sure it will be active again next season when people want to be wrong a 3rd timeNicholas said:Yeah and no one has mentioned it this season. Last season I wanted him gone and it wont be long before I want him out again if this dross continues. He has done the same as last season and divided the fans, some believe crap football crap tactics, the others believe necessary tactics to keep us in the division. The majority of fans who hate his tactics don't want him gone, just want him to be a bit more positive.
people desperately want the club and the team to succeed and when alarm bells start sounding they react, it's natural and reasonable
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WSS said:
This is a thread about Jones being sacked.shine166 said:Apparently being critical of the BS football we see week on week, means you want Jones sacked. Usually an opinion expressed by the same people who thougt Jones was a tactical genius when we won our first game in 3 months.I like to think this a thread about our love hate relationship with him. Let's be honest he isn't a manager you can admire in his entirety (Like Powell) or you can hate (take your pick).He is (and many rivals fans say this about him) the guy (rival fans) laugh at when he is loosing, but when he is winning you want to be on his side. A maverick!
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all very admirable, but you don't get a free pass when people think you're straight up wrongraytreacy said:
Exactly this. I have supported the Club for 65 years home and away. I put a four figure sum into the the VIP scheme to get us back to the Valley. I spent a five figure sum buying Charlton shares which were declared valueless. I have always wanted what is best for the Club. I honestly believe that if we want to take the club forward next season we need a new manager and one who can play more progresively. I know that a lot of posters are loyal to Jones and that is admirable. But I don’t think he is the right man. I should be able to voice that opinion without ridicule.paulsturgess said:
99% of people have no interest or concern in being proved right. I can't tell you how ecstatically happy I was to be proved wrong last seasonNabySarr said:
This thread is full of people wanting him sacked recently. Sure it will be active again next season when people want to be wrong a 3rd timeNicholas said:Yeah and no one has mentioned it this season. Last season I wanted him gone and it wont be long before I want him out again if this dross continues. He has done the same as last season and divided the fans, some believe crap football crap tactics, the others believe necessary tactics to keep us in the division. The majority of fans who hate his tactics don't want him gone, just want him to be a bit more positive.
people desperately want the club and the team to succeed and when alarm bells start sounding they react, it's natural and reasonable6 -
We even connected a few passes too that year.shine166 said:
Did that really ever happen ? BwP was the bollox and we finished with over 100 points.WSS said:paulsturgess said:
Eh? You honestly can’t see or understand why people are moaning after that?NabySarr said:Some of our fans are an embarrassment and deserve to get relegated back to league 1 and stay there.2 years ago 20th in league 1, tonight 17th in the championship and still moaning because we didn’t play well enough in our away draw. The entitlement is crazy. To have called for his head once is silly, to do it again this season is just embarrassing. To still be moaning after tonight, honestly just fuck off because you’ll never be happyA late post so will assume benefit of the doubt you must have had a few during the course of the evening cos that is unhinged
I remember people “moaning” about our style of football when we won the league with Powell.0 -
Is there ridicule? - I mean you've every right to voice an opinion, but you also risk it being challengedraytreacy said:
Exactly this. I have supported the Club for 65 years home and away. I put a four figure sum into the the VIP scheme to get us back to the Valley. I spent a five figure sum buying Charlton shares which were declared valueless. I have always wanted what is best for the Club. I honestly believe that if we want to take the club forward next season we need a new manager and one who can play more progresively. I know that a lot of posters are loyal to Jones and that is admirable. But I don’t think he is the right man. I should be able to voice that opinion without ridicule.paulsturgess said:
99% of people have no interest or concern in being proved right. I can't tell you how ecstatically happy I was to be proved wrong last seasonNabySarr said:
This thread is full of people wanting him sacked recently. Sure it will be active again next season when people want to be wrong a 3rd timeNicholas said:Yeah and no one has mentioned it this season. Last season I wanted him gone and it wont be long before I want him out again if this dross continues. He has done the same as last season and divided the fans, some believe crap football crap tactics, the others believe necessary tactics to keep us in the division. The majority of fans who hate his tactics don't want him gone, just want him to be a bit more positive.
people desperately want the club and the team to succeed and when alarm bells start sounding they react, it's natural and reasonable5 -
I don't particularly like it as a framework as there's a lot of guesswork involved but here is Transfermarkt's opinion of the lowest 10 squads by squad value. It suggests our squad is pretty weak compared to those we are scrapping it out withpaulsturgess said:We have a low budget but don't think we definitively have a bottom 3 budget, Preston have a similar or maybe even lower budget than us and actually budget is highly relevant but ultimately you have to judge a teams performance Vs the players available to them on the pitch not their budget
we have Campbell, Leaburn and Carey for example who probably worth £10m + between them but cost nothing budget or wages (not to mention LJ) but I still have an expectation on a manager with those resources available to achieve from them, conversely some of the top teams have very highly paid / costly dead wood lingering about but doesn't necessarily make it easy if they're dealt that hand
personally I think the players and team we have are, or could be performing better than we have been, that's my opinion and therefore I'd like to see Jones get more from them, whilst also being conscious that i'm sure there are many managers out there who'd get them doing worse
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It was originally. Now it’s just used as a Nathan Jones thread.WSS said:
This is a thread about Jones being sacked.shine166 said:Apparently being critical of the BS football we see week on week, means you want Jones sacked. Usually an opinion expressed by the same people who thougt Jones was a tactical genius when we won our first game in 3 months.2 -
I think a of fans have proven they can hate Jones. I don’t know many managers who have been called to be sacked despite out performing their budget and with a squad that doesn’t have much quality and that’s after he took over from the verge of L2 and got us promoted the following season.JustFloydRoad said:WSS said:
This is a thread about Jones being sacked.shine166 said:Apparently being critical of the BS football we see week on week, means you want Jones sacked. Usually an opinion expressed by the same people who thougt Jones was a tactical genius when we won our first game in 3 months.I like to think this a thread about our love hate relationship with him. Let's be honest he isn't a manager you can admire in his entirety (Like Powell) or you can hate (take your pick).He is (and many rivals fans say this about him) the guy (rival fans) laugh at when he is loosing, but when he is winning you want to be on his side. A maverick!3 -
It's absolutely normal to feel this way. Last night was grim viewing, but we earned a hard fought point.blackheathaddick said:I think Jones has done an amazing job to get this team to where we are currently, but it's a tough tough watch.Honestly, we’re lucky this season that there are teams somehow managing to be even worse than us.
The midfield alone screams for serious investment in the summer. The defence don't trust them on the ball and constantly bypass them as a result.
- Coventry and Carey are the only two who look remotely capable at this level, and even they’ve had spells where they look slightly off the pace.
- Docherty just doesn’t look up to it, he has the engine and right mindset but not the quality.
- Coady is only a loan and lacks the mobility.
- Costello has been frustratingly inconsistent, despite looking like the only midfielder who actually wants to play forward.
- The younger lads clearly aren’t ready yet.
- Carey flatters to deceive at times with his habit of running straight into defenders week in, week out.This reinforces the need for a genuine No.10 someone who can pick passes and dictate play as well as two more industrious midfielders.
Defensively, we’ve largely been fine when everyone’s fit, but the depth is a real concern.
- Bell, Jones and Ramsay aside, it looks thin, and their injury records alone justify reinforcements.
- Gillesphey feels like one to move on from.
- Sichenje has stepped in well enough but feels like he might have some of those slightly chaotic Naby Sarr moments in him.
- Burke hasn’t convinced nearly enough.
Another centre-back, arguably two feels essential.
- Edwards absence has been glaringly obvious.
- Chambers has been decent enough, but lacks Edwards’ pace and engine, so bringing in a proper left wing-back should be high on the list.
- Clarke has shown enough to justify a longer stay for me,
Both fullbacks need players that are nearing the same level to compete for those spots and fill in as required.Then the forwards and let’s be honest, NONE of them have scored enough.
- Leaburn is developing but remains inconsistent.
- Kelman looks the most natural finisher yet still raw at this level.
- Godden can’t stay fit.
- TC feels like a winger being asked to play a role that doesn’t suit him.
- Fevrier hints at promise but hasn’t delivered consistently.
- Dykes is probably the one I’d extend, given the limited service they’ve all had. That said, more output and intensity is needed across the board.For me, the shopping list is fairly obvious:
CB x2
LWB
RWB
CM x2As for the goalkeepers, Kaminski and Mannion. Neither disastrous, neither outstanding, though if pushed, Mannion probably edges it as my No.1. Which Kaminski should be embarrassed about given his cost.
When you look at all of that, it's no wonder we're playing ugly football and why our game is panning out as it is every week.0
