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Electric Cars
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The projected fall in income from VED and Fuel Duty has already led the government to announce it will introduce an Electric Vehicle Excise Duty (eVED), a new mileage charge for electric and plug-in hybrid cars, with effect from April 2028. This will see drivers will pay for their mileage alongside their existing VED.letthegoodtimesroll said:
Not that there is sufficient electricity generation capacity, especially given AI is probably going to take up a lot of it for the foreseeable future until we magically have loads of new nuclear reactors built and online, but once ‘too many’ vehicle drivers switch away from from oil based fuel then the UK Government revenues from its extortionate taxes on petrol and diesel will have to be replaced with increases to its extortionate taxes on the alternative fuel, ie VAT on electricity. Those claims about how cheap an electric car journey is might no longer be repeated so often, even sooner if Trump bombs Iran back to the Stone Age or withdraws without the Strait being reopened.MarcusH26 said:
The local car auction place down here apparently can't get enough EV stock quick enough for the demand. Not sure it will change much in terms of residuals but there's definitely been an uptick in demand for EVs in the current climateDamoNorthStand said:Wondering if the terrible residuals on second hand electric cars will start to improve in the current climate now?
The tax paid by EV drivers will be around half the fuel duty rate paid by the average petrol/ diesel driver, with a reduced rate for plug-in hybrid drivers. When eVED takes effect in April 2028, an average EV driver will pay around £240 per year or £20 per month.1 -
You can have too many controls on a steering wheel.3
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I’m only 70 years old. I probably would have to live at least another 70 years before I’d ever meet that ‘average’ tax paying person the Chancellor of the Exchequer bases his or her projections on to fool enough people into thinking it won’t be as expensive for them as it really will be.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
The projected fall in income from VED and Fuel Duty has already led the government to announce it will introduce an Electric Vehicle Excise Duty (eVED), a new mileage charge for electric and plug-in hybrid cars, with effect from April 2028. This will see drivers will pay for their mileage alongside their existing VED.letthegoodtimesroll said:
Not that there is sufficient electricity generation capacity, especially given AI is probably going to take up a lot of it for the foreseeable future until we magically have loads of new nuclear reactors built and online, but once ‘too many’ vehicle drivers switch away from from oil based fuel then the UK Government revenues from its extortionate taxes on petrol and diesel will have to be replaced with increases to its extortionate taxes on the alternative fuel, ie VAT on electricity. Those claims about how cheap an electric car journey is might no longer be repeated so often, even sooner if Trump bombs Iran back to the Stone Age or withdraws without the Strait being reopened.MarcusH26 said:
The local car auction place down here apparently can't get enough EV stock quick enough for the demand. Not sure it will change much in terms of residuals but there's definitely been an uptick in demand for EVs in the current climateDamoNorthStand said:Wondering if the terrible residuals on second hand electric cars will start to improve in the current climate now?
The tax paid by EV drivers will be around half the fuel duty rate paid by the average petrol/ diesel driver, with a reduced rate for plug-in hybrid drivers. When eVED takes effect in April 2028, an average EV driver will pay around £240 per year or £20 per month.0 -
To add a back of the envelope calculation to this, fuel tax revenues are worth around £25 billion to the Exchequer. Lose say half of that to EVs and ‘pennies per mile/journey’ costs for an EV and low eVED rates just doesn’t add up.0
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2 weeks into having an electric van for work. Honest appraisal
Pros
Drives lovely even if it does feel as heavy as it is.
Cons
The electric handbrake is unreliable but thats not exclusive to EVs
The range is an absolute scandal. I'm losing so much time charging it. The range on a full charge shows as 180 miles. Ive started driving it with full regenerative braking on and in economy mode, no air conditioning or heating and I'm still only getting around 100 miles to the tank of charge. It is wholly impractical as a work vehicle for this reason alone.
The thing with driving it in economy mode is it feels more diesel-y than my diesel van so need to remember to put it into normal mode when approaching a roundabout so I can pull away0 -
Update on the van
The air conditioning is elite level, reap frosty. Switching it on has a very detrimental effect on the already wanky range.
I only use public chargers and it is a lot more expensive than using diesel per mile doing that. Fast charge only as anything less is a total waste of time and one of the lads got a parking fine for leaving theirs plugged in for over the parking allowance at an Aldi or Lidl
Its a lovely vehicle to drive, not my favourite work van that will always be my hugely over the top Isuzu that needed 2 parking bays and a full motorway lane. Its great for the 10 miles it takes for the range to go from 175 to 110 then I'm filling my head with logistics when I should really be putting more of it onto the job
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Just done Kent to Alton Towers and back, 45 minutes of total charging time across the two journeys, which is ideal with the kids at services.
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Chuck them a bag of skips from the Asda multipack and keep them in the playground, parenting quality from megringo said:
shurely this is what you intended to say?Rothko said:Just done Kent to Alton Towers and back, 45 minutes of total charging time across the two journeys, which is ideal expensive with the kids at services.
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Interesting to see what the market will be like for second hand electric vehicles? I imagine most electric cars are purchased on contracts.
Will five year old plus electric vehicles have a market?1 -
well they havent much of one at the moment. I think one problem could be is that people buying electric new will have planned for the charging facilities (and maybe got a subsidised deal). Buying Second hand is much more spur of the moment and people wanting a electric car is a much more limited market, prices will probably remain low.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Interesting to see what the market will be like for second hand electric vehicles? I imagine most electric cars are purchased on contracts.
Will five year old plus electric vehicles have a market?0 -
Current climate 😂MarcusH26 said:
The local car auction place down here apparently can't get enough EV stock quick enough for the demand. Not sure it will change much in terms of residuals but there's definitely been an uptick in demand for EVs in the current climateDamoNorthStand said:Wondering if the terrible residuals on second hand electric cars will start to improve in the current climate now?
Brilliant.1 -
According to AI, in the UK, over 70% of all new battery electric vehicles (BEVs) are purchased or leased by businesses and fleets rather than private consumers. This heavy fleet dominance is driven by attractive company car tax benefits and salary sacrifice schemes, which make acquiring an EV significantly cheaper for corporate drivers.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Interesting to see what the market will be like for second hand electric vehicles? I imagine most electric cars are purchased on contracts.
Will five year old plus electric vehicles have a market?
I assume this means there will be a steady stream of used EVs coming on to the market. But, if the private motorist is still unsure about EVs, particularly if they haven't got anywhere viable to plug it in at home, then will the second hand market remain strong when (if) the USA/Iran problem goes away? It may be that the price of second hand BEVs will have to remain very competitive if they are to attract punters.
BTW you can currently get an effectively brand new pre-registered Lotus Emeya with a staggering £46K knocked off the list price which is unreal. https://quotes.carwow.co.uk/deals/e2661583067b2495bae964b245255e770 -
Friend has an electric equivalent of a 208, very happy with it.jimmymelrose said:I’m seriously considering one of these:
all-electric-mini-countrymanDoes anyone have one of these, or a similar alternative?0 -
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I think the word wheel gives it away.AddicksAddict said:3 -
The problem with modern cars is that many ICE cars now being produced don't have longevity. It is very hard, but still possible, to find models that can be easily repaired. When the cost of repair is high, the older the car, the more issues there are. It is a given that EVs have this problem as the battery is such an expensive component to replace.
People love all the additional features which are great when working but a nightmare when they go wrong. All the sensors you find on a bumber can go askew with a minor knock and have to be recalabrated at great expense. In some cars a change of light bulb has to be worked through the car's computer! LED lights might look good but it is a case of changing the whole unit now at great expense when they go wrong! If you buy from new and only keep the car for a few years it isn't a problem but car companies don't want you driving the car for too long and they don't want it fixed by third party mechanics.
Also, the trend of putting small turbo charged engines in bigger cars seems great when new but the engine gets very hot as it is pushed more and will throw in the towel much sooner. Not forgetting all the plastic parts in it. And indeed the complexity of these engines which makes repair costs high. If I was in government I would seek to introduce a repairability index and despite things they have forced like wet belts which don't help the environment one iota, same with electric cars. Cars lasting longer, much longer will be best for the planet.
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Yup - the golden age of cars was 1995 - 2007. Emissions regulations have killed their reliabilityMuttleyCAFC said:The problem with modern cars is that many ICE cars now being produced don't have longevity. It is very hard, but still possible, to find models that can be easily repaired. When the cost of repair is high, the older the car, the more issues there are. It is a given that EVs have this problem as the battery is such an expensive component to replace.
People love all the additional features which are great when working but a nightmare when they go wrong. All the sensors you find on a bumber can go askew with a minor knock and have to be recalabrated at great expense. In some cars a change of light bulb has to be worked through the car's computer! LED lights might look good but it is a case of changing the whole unit now at great expense when they go wrong! If you buy from new and only keep the car for a few years it isn't a problem but car companies don't want you driving the car for too long and they don't want it fixed by third party mechanics.
Also, the trend of putting small turbo charged engines in bigger cars seems great when new but the engine gets very hot as it is pushed more and will throw in the towel much sooner. Not forgetting all the plastic parts in it. And indeed the complexity of these engines which makes repair costs high. If I was in government I would seek to introduce a repairability index and despite things they have forced like wet belts which don't help the environment one iota, same with electric cars. Cars lasting longer, much longer will be best for the planet.0 -
Goodolddayism1
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Well hey if you enjoy spending your hard earned cash replacing DPFs, EGR valves, Cats, wet belts and turbochargers when they are not necessary for the operation of an engine, knock yourself out.Rothko said:Goodolddayism1 -
I drive an EV, so no, I don't need to worry about them. But go back to the 90s, and sure, there were those going on about how cars were perfect in the 80s.cafcnick1992 said:
Well hey if you enjoy spending your hard earned cash replacing DPFs, EGR valves, Cats, wet belts and turbochargers when they are not necessary for the operation of an engine, knock yourself out.Rothko said:Goodolddayism1 -
I think there is pretty widespread acceptance that fuel injection in the early 90s made cars more reliable.Rothko said:
I drive an EV, so no, I don't need to worry about them. But go back to the 90s, and sure, there were those going on about how cars were perfect in the 80s.cafcnick1992 said:
Well hey if you enjoy spending your hard earned cash replacing DPFs, EGR valves, Cats, wet belts and turbochargers when they are not necessary for the operation of an engine, knock yourself out.Rothko said:Goodolddayism0 -
Rothko said:
I drive an EV, so no, I don't need to worry about them. But go back to the 90s, and sure, there were those going on about how cars were perfect in the 80s.cafcnick1992 said:
Well hey if you enjoy spending your hard earned cash replacing DPFs, EGR valves, Cats, wet belts and turbochargers when they are not necessary for the operation of an engine, knock yourself out.Rothko said:GoodolddayismTwas ever thus - 'back in the day ....'Over the past 20 years or so, and certainly in the past 10 years ICE cars have improved in pretty much every respect. More economical, safer, rust free, less polluting and far more reliable, and with increasingly longer warranties. Datsun Cherry anyone?Buy a Toyota and as long as it is serviced to specification you get a 10 year warranty. Kia/Hyundai and the like 7 years. The Chinese invasion (most are 8 year warranties) - they are improving and will continue to improve - just like the Japanese cars of the 70s are light years away from the Nissans, Toyotas and Hondas of today. South Korean rubbish? Hyundai and Kia make some fantastic cars. Extended manufacturer backed warranties are also available at not unreasonable prices.The only downside is that they require garage servicing - they are not designed for DIY. My first few cars I had were so easy to work on with a Haynes manual - lift the bonnet and there was loads of room to get to everything. Just as well as the bonnet had to be lifted on a very frequent basis.Luddites!
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Motoring is getting more expensive. New cars may come with a warranty but not everyone can access them.
Running a second hand electric vehicle may not be practical.
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Yes, but not direct injection systems.cafcnick1992 said:
I think there is pretty widespread acceptance that fuel injection in the early 90s made cars more reliable.Rothko said:
I drive an EV, so no, I don't need to worry about them. But go back to the 90s, and sure, there were those going on about how cars were perfect in the 80s.cafcnick1992 said:
Well hey if you enjoy spending your hard earned cash replacing DPFs, EGR valves, Cats, wet belts and turbochargers when they are not necessary for the operation of an engine, knock yourself out.Rothko said:Goodolddayism1 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g8vg72z43ohoof_it_up_to_benty said:Interesting to see what the market will be like for second hand electric vehicles? I imagine most electric cars are purchased on contracts.
Will five year old plus electric vehicles have a market?
Interesting piece here about the extent of the Chinese takeover of EV manufacturing. Looks like everything will be coming from there shortly...0 -
@bobmunro makes a valid point
Up until 2008 I had cars that I could service myself and do so to varying degrees of ease but very doable DIY all the same.
A volkswagen I had required 20 plus grub screws to be removed just to get the engine cover off then didn't matter how good you were at servicing and mechanical work full stop, without telling the computer you had serviced it or replaced a sensor the car didn't believe you
I think that up until about 2018 combustion engine vehicles were at their zenith. Very repairable, would give long and loyal service if cared for and none were heaps of shit straight out if the factory. Now I think sadly motor manufacturers have gone the same way as a lot of things and built their vehicles to have defined lifespans not over 10 years. Works for them, works for dealers, works for everyone except the customer.
Those stupid screens in every new car now piss me off, I think people who use mobile phones when driving should be fed to pigs and don't see how those screens are any different. The next step was the fuckers removing knobs, switches and dials from cockpits under the guise of streamlining but really to save the manufacturing costs of putting knobs, switches, buttons and dials in dashboards
Anyway. Must go, need to charge the van up so I can drive to Folkestone and do my job on Monday morning
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And you factor in what happens when the screen goes wrong in a few years and it is going to be far, far more expensive to replace and the car won't work without it. The screen should have sat nav capability and music. And if it goes wrong, it should be interchangeable with a standard tablet but I agree that it isn't safe in the same way as using a mobile phone isn't safe. I know where the switches are in my car without needing to look at them and consequently fumble for them.Carter said:@bobmunro makes a valid point
Up until 2008 I had cars that I could service myself and do so to varying degrees of ease but very doable DIY all the same.
A volkswagen I had required 20 plus grub screws to be removed just to get the engine cover off then didn't matter how good you were at servicing and mechanical work full stop, without telling the computer you had serviced it or replaced a sensor the car didn't believe you
I think that up until about 2018 combustion engine vehicles were at their zenith. Very repairable, would give long and loyal service if cared for and none were heaps of shit straight out if the factory. Now I think sadly motor manufacturers have gone the same way as a lot of things and built their vehicles to have defined lifespans not over 10 years. Works for them, works for dealers, works for everyone except the customer.
Those stupid screens in every new car now piss me off, I think people who use mobile phones when driving should be fed to pigs and don't see how those screens are any different. The next step was the fuckers removing knobs, switches and dials from cockpits under the guise of streamlining but really to save the manufacturing costs of putting knobs, switches, buttons and dials in dashboards
Anyway. Must go, need to charge the van up so I can drive to Folkestone and do my job on Monday morning
What you have now is too many features on some cars that affect everything else when they go wrong. If people don't realise what is happening they are delighted there is a device that picks your nose for you. Ok, maybe not that far yet but we are getting there. You even have cars that assess their owners driving style and snitch to insurance companies as an added issue. That does happen now.1 -
My EV allows you to do everything via voice commands. Some of these more conversational with an AI assistant. Core safety functions not covered by AI yet. A very different way of making changes and takes a bit of getting used to. But I can still keep eyes on road when asking for a change to the temp1
