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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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I tend to agree with almost all of this, the exception being the reason why Gallagher was recalled.paulsturgess said:
🤣Dazzler21 said:
Okay the squad of 19/20 was even better than the 18/19 one so my point stands, on the pitch we are far worse and have done better than in 19/20.paulsturgess said:
I have no idea what you’re talking about, feels like you’re responding to a completely different conversation.Dazzler21 said:
It’s relevant because you mentioned resources, but you’re confusing 'budget' with 'talent.' Bowyer might have had fewer resources to spend, but the squad he actually had on the pitch, just look at those names like Aribo, Cullen, and Bielik. It was vastly superior to what we have now. My point stands, having a better squad (even on a shoestring) made his job incomparable to the current situation. This lot wouldn't get near that 18/19 side.paulsturgess said:
Was this meant to be posted in response to my post? As it makes no sense along side, and is completely irrelevant to, the post I made ?Dazzler21 said:paulsturgess said:
Compared with the circumstances bowyer managed in and the resources he had available to him in 19/20 , this season we should have been challenging for the titleDazzler21 said:
Erm are we going to ignore the massive gulf in quality of inherited squad?LittleAddick said:This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January. Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.
That squad would destroy this one.I said Bowyer had a much harder job for many reasons in 19/20 in all respects - including resources, both financially and actual on the pitch options, than Jones has had this season in 25/26.
the squad in 18/19 is of absolutely zero relevance whatsoever to the point I was making
🤷♂️
So difficult to reason with those who are solely out to blindly defend Jones. that statement is ludicrous.bowyer had bonne Leko and josh Davison to choose from as his strikers most of the season.Oshilaja, bonne, purrington, albie morgan were some of our leading appearance makers.Just to remind some of the wider circumstances as well facing bowyer:
- sacked immediately after securing promotion
- lowest budget in division (not one of lowest, but lowest)
- only 1 player signed for money. National league top scorer (vs league one top scorer this time round!)
- Squad started season markedly weaker than one that was promoted 2 months prior
- Taylor tried to secure move to Brentford in August, then got injured and missed 4 months of season- unbelievable injury crisis for sustained period, with Leko missing second half of season to add to Taylor with ACL injury
- squad is so bad that Gallagher was actively recalled from loan by parent club who had become offended at how pitiful squad had become
- EFL approved takeover of club from owner who sacked bowyer - then immediately placed us under embargo. No players can be signed to deal with injury crisis and remaining players forced to play through injury and supplemented by kids, some of whom were talentless kids (Ben Dempsey!)
- new owners spent remainder of season embezzling money from club, southall renting £12,000 pcm apartment whilst our soon to be out of contract leading scorer earned only £16,000 pcm himself with contract imminently expiring as he tried to single handedly win us a couple of games
- ownership debacle culminated in forcible removal by police from boardroom in mid season leaving absentee and unqualified nimer as owner
- after brief return from long term injury Taylor then refused to also play final quarter of season
- while season is being played out, club werw unable to offer even existing players new contracts due to ongoing embargo, leaving almost every player in squad uncertain of future despite being asked to play beyond contract expiry, twice a week due to CovidJones has had a tough time too though with Rob Apter upsetting the dressing room harmony, I understand that.1 -
You were never going to get 8 top end championship players as a newly promoted L1 club in one year. It’s a framework we try to build round doesn’t mean it’s always entirely probableAlwaysneil said:The trouble woth 8 + 8 + 8 is if the first 8 are supposed to be the elite players but several of them aren't very elite and 4 of them are >50% of the time not fit to play.7 -
Sick of the football under NJ - no ambition and so limited. A lot of our results have been more down to luck than anything else.
We concede possession every game and even against the worst teams in this division we've been too defensive.
The last seven games have been pitiful - such a lack of fight from our team.9 -
I still cant get my head around playing 5-3-2 against Sheff W, to make things worse he has Coady sitting in front of the back 3 against the shittest team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals ffs. To make things worse his subs were not attacking either, he brought on Collins and Gillesphie ffs and we went on to barely have a shot. We then play Ipswich at home who are probably the best footballing team in the league and goes all attacking. The bloke hasn't got a clue.
The amount of times he freezes players out like Kelman, Costello, Leaburn who dont even come off then bench then randomly goes ok then lads your all starting. He is so random it's not funny anymore.
If we stay up I reckon we may lose a few players I am sure they are fed up with his shit football like so many fans are. If offers come in can see Jones, Ramsey and a few others jumping ship and who would blame them.
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So what’s the alternative to play a winger deemed not good enough at Stockport, and another winger who gets changed effing useless when he misses a shot?Nicholas said:I still cant get my head around playing 5-3-2 against Sheff W, to make things worse he has Coady sitting in front of the back 3 against the shittest team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals ffs. To make things worse his subs were not attacking either, he brought on Collins and Gillesphie ffs and we went on to barely have a shot. We then play Ipswich at home who are probably the best footballing team in the league and goes all attacking. The bloke hasn't got a clue.
The amount of times he freezes players out like Kelman, Costello, Leaburn who dont even come off then bench then randomly goes ok then lads your all starting. He is so random it's not funny anymore.
If we stay up I reckon we may lose a few players I am sure they are fed up with his shit football like so many fans are. If offers come in can see Jones, Ramsey and a few others jumping ship and who would blame them.2 -
My memory of the Gallagher recall is that we were playing him 90mins every game at 18 years old, weren't playing the style of football Chelsea wanted to develop him (which is why they shipped him off to Swansea instead) - and apparently they came to watch him one away game where he was doing everything and getting kicked all over the park. That game I can still picture him coming off at HT with blood all over his sock from one tackle, clearly struggling and not expecting to see him come back out but played the 90.Desmond Oulu said:
I tend to agree with almost all of this, the exception being the reason why Gallagher was recalled.paulsturgess said:
🤣Dazzler21 said:
Okay the squad of 19/20 was even better than the 18/19 one so my point stands, on the pitch we are far worse and have done better than in 19/20.paulsturgess said:
I have no idea what you’re talking about, feels like you’re responding to a completely different conversation.Dazzler21 said:
It’s relevant because you mentioned resources, but you’re confusing 'budget' with 'talent.' Bowyer might have had fewer resources to spend, but the squad he actually had on the pitch, just look at those names like Aribo, Cullen, and Bielik. It was vastly superior to what we have now. My point stands, having a better squad (even on a shoestring) made his job incomparable to the current situation. This lot wouldn't get near that 18/19 side.paulsturgess said:
Was this meant to be posted in response to my post? As it makes no sense along side, and is completely irrelevant to, the post I made ?Dazzler21 said:paulsturgess said:
Compared with the circumstances bowyer managed in and the resources he had available to him in 19/20 , this season we should have been challenging for the titleDazzler21 said:
Erm are we going to ignore the massive gulf in quality of inherited squad?LittleAddick said:This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January. Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.
That squad would destroy this one.I said Bowyer had a much harder job for many reasons in 19/20 in all respects - including resources, both financially and actual on the pitch options, than Jones has had this season in 25/26.
the squad in 18/19 is of absolutely zero relevance whatsoever to the point I was making
🤷♂️
So difficult to reason with those who are solely out to blindly defend Jones. that statement is ludicrous.bowyer had bonne Leko and josh Davison to choose from as his strikers most of the season.Oshilaja, bonne, purrington, albie morgan were some of our leading appearance makers.Just to remind some of the wider circumstances as well facing bowyer:
- sacked immediately after securing promotion
- lowest budget in division (not one of lowest, but lowest)
- only 1 player signed for money. National league top scorer (vs league one top scorer this time round!)
- Squad started season markedly weaker than one that was promoted 2 months prior
- Taylor tried to secure move to Brentford in August, then got injured and missed 4 months of season- unbelievable injury crisis for sustained period, with Leko missing second half of season to add to Taylor with ACL injury
- squad is so bad that Gallagher was actively recalled from loan by parent club who had become offended at how pitiful squad had become
- EFL approved takeover of club from owner who sacked bowyer - then immediately placed us under embargo. No players can be signed to deal with injury crisis and remaining players forced to play through injury and supplemented by kids, some of whom were talentless kids (Ben Dempsey!)
- new owners spent remainder of season embezzling money from club, southall renting £12,000 pcm apartment whilst our soon to be out of contract leading scorer earned only £16,000 pcm himself with contract imminently expiring as he tried to single handedly win us a couple of games
- ownership debacle culminated in forcible removal by police from boardroom in mid season leaving absentee and unqualified nimer as owner
- after brief return from long term injury Taylor then refused to also play final quarter of season
- while season is being played out, club werw unable to offer even existing players new contracts due to ongoing embargo, leaving almost every player in squad uncertain of future despite being asked to play beyond contract expiry, twice a week due to CovidJones has had a tough time too though with Rob Apter upsetting the dressing room harmony, I understand that.1 -
My big Jones gripe is that even though we're setup to soak up pressure and counter - our counter-attacking patterns of play look improvised and are completely ineffective. Whether that's the quality of the attacking/midfield players with the ball or a lack of tactical quality I'm not sure - although I'd say both.
I do think we're well setup to defend, the defensive shape against Ipswich was actually really solid in my opinion but in the first half when we won it and broke forward there was no quality or shape to the counter-attack when Ipswich turned it over.
Defensively though, I agree that we're too soft to press on the edge of the box when we do sit so deep, it's not bad luck that we concede shots from further out - that's the step-up in quality in the Championship that decent attacking players can pick a corner if given time 20-25 yards out. Same with the lumping it long and winning second balls in terms of teams having the quality to cope with that fairly easily at this level, so we need to get more imaginative when we're chasing a game.8 -
He was supposed to be learning from the championship and ideally seasoned pros around him and competing but the situation got so chronic then there was one game in particular think it was Derby away where he was practically the senior player in the team, playing with the likes of Morgan doughty Davison Dempsey bonne and basically carrying them all and they were like what the fuck good is this doing us or him it was like being on loan in the national league - he’d have been in better company in the Chelsea u21 squad than playing with the Charlton u21s so they shifted himOh_Yoni_Boy said:
My memory of the Gallagher recall is that we were playing him 90mins every game at 18 years old, weren't playing the style of football Chelsea wanted to develop him (which is why they shipped him off to Swansea instead) - and apparently they came to watch him one away game where he was doing everything and getting kicked all over the park. That game I can still picture him coming off at HT with blood all over his sock from one tackle, clearly struggling and not expecting to see him come back out but played the 90.Desmond Oulu said:
I tend to agree with almost all of this, the exception being the reason why Gallagher was recalled.paulsturgess said:
🤣Dazzler21 said:
Okay the squad of 19/20 was even better than the 18/19 one so my point stands, on the pitch we are far worse and have done better than in 19/20.paulsturgess said:
I have no idea what you’re talking about, feels like you’re responding to a completely different conversation.Dazzler21 said:
It’s relevant because you mentioned resources, but you’re confusing 'budget' with 'talent.' Bowyer might have had fewer resources to spend, but the squad he actually had on the pitch, just look at those names like Aribo, Cullen, and Bielik. It was vastly superior to what we have now. My point stands, having a better squad (even on a shoestring) made his job incomparable to the current situation. This lot wouldn't get near that 18/19 side.paulsturgess said:
Was this meant to be posted in response to my post? As it makes no sense along side, and is completely irrelevant to, the post I made ?Dazzler21 said:paulsturgess said:
Compared with the circumstances bowyer managed in and the resources he had available to him in 19/20 , this season we should have been challenging for the titleDazzler21 said:
Erm are we going to ignore the massive gulf in quality of inherited squad?LittleAddick said:This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January. Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.
That squad would destroy this one.I said Bowyer had a much harder job for many reasons in 19/20 in all respects - including resources, both financially and actual on the pitch options, than Jones has had this season in 25/26.
the squad in 18/19 is of absolutely zero relevance whatsoever to the point I was making
🤷♂️
So difficult to reason with those who are solely out to blindly defend Jones. that statement is ludicrous.bowyer had bonne Leko and josh Davison to choose from as his strikers most of the season.Oshilaja, bonne, purrington, albie morgan were some of our leading appearance makers.Just to remind some of the wider circumstances as well facing bowyer:
- sacked immediately after securing promotion
- lowest budget in division (not one of lowest, but lowest)
- only 1 player signed for money. National league top scorer (vs league one top scorer this time round!)
- Squad started season markedly weaker than one that was promoted 2 months prior
- Taylor tried to secure move to Brentford in August, then got injured and missed 4 months of season- unbelievable injury crisis for sustained period, with Leko missing second half of season to add to Taylor with ACL injury
- squad is so bad that Gallagher was actively recalled from loan by parent club who had become offended at how pitiful squad had become
- EFL approved takeover of club from owner who sacked bowyer - then immediately placed us under embargo. No players can be signed to deal with injury crisis and remaining players forced to play through injury and supplemented by kids, some of whom were talentless kids (Ben Dempsey!)
- new owners spent remainder of season embezzling money from club, southall renting £12,000 pcm apartment whilst our soon to be out of contract leading scorer earned only £16,000 pcm himself with contract imminently expiring as he tried to single handedly win us a couple of games
- ownership debacle culminated in forcible removal by police from boardroom in mid season leaving absentee and unqualified nimer as owner
- after brief return from long term injury Taylor then refused to also play final quarter of season
- while season is being played out, club werw unable to offer even existing players new contracts due to ongoing embargo, leaving almost every player in squad uncertain of future despite being asked to play beyond contract expiry, twice a week due to CovidJones has had a tough time too though with Rob Apter upsetting the dressing room harmony, I understand that.1 -
Spot on.Oh_Yoni_Boy said:My big Jones gripe is that even though we're setup to soak up pressure and counter - our counter-attacking patterns of play look improvised and are completely ineffective. Whether that's the quality of the attacking/midfield players with the ball or a lack of tactical quality I'm not sure - although I'd say both.
I do think we're well setup to defend, the defensive shape against Ipswich was actually really solid in my opinion but in the first half when we won it and broke forward there was no quality or shape to the counter-attack when Ipswich turned it over.
Defensively though, I agree that we're too soft to press on the edge of the box when we do sit so deep, it's not bad luck that we concede shots from further out - that's the step-up in quality in the Championship that decent attacking players can pick a corner if given time 20-25 yards out. Same with the lumping it long and winning second balls in terms of teams having the quality to cope with that fairly easily at this level, so we need to get more imaginative when we're chasing a game.1 -
Well yeah, if they are the only 2 wingers we have then so be it. Sheff W team are a league 2 team so if you feel our 2 wingers plus Fullah couldnt help them then more fool you. Like I said a million times, Jones has brought this on himself by not signing a couple of wingers so he could occasionly change his beloved 5-3-2 up occasionally.Crispywood said:
So what’s the alternative to play a winger deemed not good enough at Stockport, and another winger who gets changed effing useless when he misses a shot?Nicholas said:I still cant get my head around playing 5-3-2 against Sheff W, to make things worse he has Coady sitting in front of the back 3 against the shittest team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals ffs. To make things worse his subs were not attacking either, he brought on Collins and Gillesphie ffs and we went on to barely have a shot. We then play Ipswich at home who are probably the best footballing team in the league and goes all attacking. The bloke hasn't got a clue.
The amount of times he freezes players out like Kelman, Costello, Leaburn who dont even come off then bench then randomly goes ok then lads your all starting. He is so random it's not funny anymore.
If we stay up I reckon we may lose a few players I am sure they are fed up with his shit football like so many fans are. If offers come in can see Jones, Ramsey and a few others jumping ship and who would blame them.1 -
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We spent 3.5M on 2 players who could play out wide neither of them wanted to be here, and are both struggling on loan in L1Nicholas said:
Well yeah, if they are the only 2 wingers we have then so be it. Sheff W team are a league 2 team so if you feel our 2 wingers plus Fullah couldnt help them then more fool you. Like I said a million times, Jones has brought this on himself by not signing a couple of wingers so he could occasionly change his beloved 5-3-2 up occasionally.Crispywood said:
So what’s the alternative to play a winger deemed not good enough at Stockport, and another winger who gets changed effing useless when he misses a shot?Nicholas said:I still cant get my head around playing 5-3-2 against Sheff W, to make things worse he has Coady sitting in front of the back 3 against the shittest team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals ffs. To make things worse his subs were not attacking either, he brought on Collins and Gillesphie ffs and we went on to barely have a shot. We then play Ipswich at home who are probably the best footballing team in the league and goes all attacking. The bloke hasn't got a clue.
The amount of times he freezes players out like Kelman, Costello, Leaburn who dont even come off then bench then randomly goes ok then lads your all starting. He is so random it's not funny anymore.
If we stay up I reckon we may lose a few players I am sure they are fed up with his shit football like so many fans are. If offers come in can see Jones, Ramsey and a few others jumping ship and who would blame them.0 -
The 3-5-2 has got us from surviving league 1 relegation to hopefully surviving championship relegation. The formation isn’t the problems, it’s been a huge success and we’ve recruited a squad for itNicholas said:I still cant get my head around playing 5-3-2 against Sheff W, to make things worse he has Coady sitting in front of the back 3 against the shittest team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals ffs. To make things worse his subs were not attacking either, he brought on Collins and Gillesphie ffs and we went on to barely have a shot. We then play Ipswich at home who are probably the best footballing team in the league and goes all attacking. The bloke hasn't got a clue.
The amount of times he freezes players out like Kelman, Costello, Leaburn who dont even come off then bench then randomly goes ok then lads your all starting. He is so random it's not funny anymore.
If we stay up I reckon we may lose a few players I am sure they are fed up with his shit football like so many fans are. If offers come in can see Jones, Ramsey and a few others jumping ship and who would blame them.
When Coady has started in midfield we have only lost one game. The criticism should be that we aren’t playing him more. Hopefully he’s back in tomorrow
The common criticism that he never changes it just isn’t true either if you actually watch the games we change things often
When you have a limited budget, you can’t recruit fully for two formations. We can’t afford to waste money on signing wingers when we still don’t have a good starting eleven for our first choice formation. You need options to change things up, which we have had in Apter/Fevrier and TC and regularly have used
Also quite ironic saying he hasn’t got a clue when you called for his sacking a year and a half ago, and he has since delivered promotion and almost survival6 -
Really don’t get the criticism of a manager sticking mostly to one formation. That’s literally what pretty much every manager does, and definitely what most successful managers do
You want a consistent setup and way of playing, and then you can tweak that with different personnel. E.g a more attacking wing back, a more attacking midfield, TC up front vs 2 strikers up front - you can play the same formation but very differently16 -
I do agree with this, although I think our pedestrian midfield has a lot to do with that. Look at how we look on the counter with JRC in a game, particularly instead of Doc. We look more fluid with a ball carrier who can beat a man and pick a pass. I don't think it's all down to personnel, but I think personnel plays a large part in it. And it's something that must improve next season, especially since I don't see us becoming a significantly more possession-based side.Oh_Yoni_Boy said:My big Jones gripe is that even though we're setup to soak up pressure and counter - our counter-attacking patterns of play look improvised and are completely ineffective. Whether that's the quality of the attacking/midfield players with the ball or a lack of tactical quality I'm not sure - although I'd say both.
I do think we're well setup to defend, the defensive shape against Ipswich was actually really solid in my opinion but in the first half when we won it and broke forward there was no quality or shape to the counter-attack when Ipswich turned it over.
Defensively though, I agree that we're too soft to press on the edge of the box when we do sit so deep, it's not bad luck that we concede shots from further out - that's the step-up in quality in the Championship that decent attacking players can pick a corner if given time 20-25 yards out. Same with the lumping it long and winning second balls in terms of teams having the quality to cope with that fairly easily at this level, so we need to get more imaginative when we're chasing a game.0 -
Apart they are attacking wingers who are suited to playing up top not at the backCrispywood said:
We spent 3.5M on 2 players who could play out wide neither of them wanted to be here, and are both struggling on loan in L1Nicholas said:
Well yeah, if they are the only 2 wingers we have then so be it. Sheff W team are a league 2 team so if you feel our 2 wingers plus Fullah couldnt help them then more fool you. Like I said a million times, Jones has brought this on himself by not signing a couple of wingers so he could occasionly change his beloved 5-3-2 up occasionally.Crispywood said:
So what’s the alternative to play a winger deemed not good enough at Stockport, and another winger who gets changed effing useless when he misses a shot?Nicholas said:I still cant get my head around playing 5-3-2 against Sheff W, to make things worse he has Coady sitting in front of the back 3 against the shittest team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals ffs. To make things worse his subs were not attacking either, he brought on Collins and Gillesphie ffs and we went on to barely have a shot. We then play Ipswich at home who are probably the best footballing team in the league and goes all attacking. The bloke hasn't got a clue.
The amount of times he freezes players out like Kelman, Costello, Leaburn who dont even come off then bench then randomly goes ok then lads your all starting. He is so random it's not funny anymore.
If we stay up I reckon we may lose a few players I am sure they are fed up with his shit football like so many fans are. If offers come in can see Jones, Ramsey and a few others jumping ship and who would blame them.0 -
Happy with the consistant set up, but if something is not working during a game, you have the option to change it if you like. If you cant see playing 3 centre backs 2 wing backs and Coady in the holding role against Sheffield Wednesday then I give up I really do. 10 Defenders were used against the worst team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals let that sink in for a minute.NabySarr said:Really don’t get the criticism of a manager sticking mostly to one formation. That’s literally what pretty much every manager does, and definitely what most successful managers do
You want a consistent setup and way of playing, and then you can tweak that with different personnel. E.g a more attacking wing back, a more attacking midfield, TC up front vs 2 strikers up front - you can play the same formation but very differently3 -
I think you made this point earlier, but if anything, we look more disjointed when Jones changes formation. We tend to get out numbered in midfield and just resort to bypassing the midfield entirely, especially when chasing games. Now that's an issue unto itself, but, all of our best play has been in a 3-5-2 this year (as it was last year). We don't really have the personnel for a 4-2-3-1, it's not just about having wide players--which we have in TC and Fev/Apter, it's about having CBs comfortable in a 2. And Jones, Ramsay, Bell, Macca (I know), and Coady are all more confident in a 3. Collins I don't know about, but a back 3 gave him the freedom to chase the ball/Jaden down the other night, which I liked.NabySarr said:Really don’t get the criticism of a manager sticking mostly to one formation. That’s literally what pretty much every manager does, and definitely what most successful managers do
You want a consistent setup and way of playing, and then you can tweak that with different personnel. E.g a more attacking wing back, a more attacking midfield, TC up front vs 2 strikers up front - you can play the same formation but very differently
One thing I'll add is that I think sometimes formations are a red herring. It's not what you play, it's how you play it. 3-5-2 can be attacking just as 4-3-3 can be defensive. It's more down to style and patterns of play.
One thing I'll disagree with though is playing Coady against Sheff Wed. I think that was a game for Coventry buzzing about and retaining possession. I would like to see Coady in there tomorrow for his organization and experience, but I thought Jones got it wrong at Hillsborough not having Cov in for his mobility.4 -
I agree that Jones got his selection wrong against Sheffield Wednesday, but yes it wasn’t the formation that was the problem, and I also don’t think Coady was the problem. Coady is just better than Coventry, Coventry is more mobile but Coady is better at literally everything else. Which is why whenever Coventry starts we lose, and whenever Coady starts we don’tWe should have started Campbell and/or Fevrier in our usual shape. The team we picked was too easy to defend against with a very one dimensional attack, lacking pace and width. But the formation and coady were not the problem2
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Do you not see Jones doing that all the time? As I’ve said before, if anything he’s done it too much this season and we’d have been better off sticking with our normal shape more oftenNicholas said:
Happy with the consistant set up, but if something is not working during a game, you have the option to change it if you like. If you cant see playing 3 centre backs 2 wing backs and Coady in the holding role against Sheffield Wednesday then I give up I really do. 10 Defenders were used against the worst team in the league who have conceded 80+ goals let that sink in for a minute.NabySarr said:Really don’t get the criticism of a manager sticking mostly to one formation. That’s literally what pretty much every manager does, and definitely what most successful managers do
You want a consistent setup and way of playing, and then you can tweak that with different personnel. E.g a more attacking wing back, a more attacking midfield, TC up front vs 2 strikers up front - you can play the same formation but very differently1 -
I think one of Jones biggest weaknesses is he changes things too much. Our best spell of last season and this season was when he had a consistent eleven every game. This season it was when we had the same back 5, same midfield and then Kelman and TC starting up front running and pressing, with Leaburn and Olaofe subbing in for us to go more direct. It was the same game plan every week and it worked. Second half of last season was similar with very minimal change to the teamWhen we play badly, I think Jones changes things too much. He should pick what he thinks is his best team and then leave it like that for a run of games, even if we have a bad performance he needs to hold his nerve and not make loads of changes2
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I think we chop and change too much. The players have had next to no chance to develop partnerships- especially going forward. We’re solid with the central back line (when fit) of Bell, Jones, Ramsay. In midfield Doc & Cov complement each other, albeit they are top L1 / lower Champ. After that I struggle for pairings. Leaburn & Campbell came through the ranks together but have hardly played together under Jones - despite a brilliant performance at Ipswich away.
It’s pretty disheartening to be at the end of the season and still not to know what the manager’s preferred starting 11 is. Basically because he doesn’t know it himself.5 -
I think Jones need to manage players minutes (to avoid injuries and burnout), it's not because he doesn't know his best teamWeegie Addick said:I think we chop and change too much. The players have had next to no chance to develop partnerships- especially going forward. We’re solid with the central back line (when fit) of Bell, Jones, Ramsay. In midfield Doc & Cov complement each other, albeit they are top L1 / lower Champ. After that I struggle for pairings. Leaburn & Campbell came through the ranks together but have hardly played together under Jones - despite a brilliant performance at Ipswich away.
It’s pretty disheartening to be at the end of the season and still not to know what the manager’s preferred starting 11 is. Basically because he doesn’t know it himself.3 -
Nathan Jones isn't anyone's idiot, I can see what he is trying to do and it must be maddening for him at times as much as some of us scratch our heads about changes and formations
It is a lot easier to make a team hard to beat than make one that plays like Cruyffs Holland team and we are a very fine margin team. We will be relying on individuals moments of inspiration, set pieces, attrition. The players let themselves down more often than the manager does, we have 4 good finishers at the club but so often the final ball isn't even getting to them especially when it goes wide which is where we can actually open teams up a bit. Fatigue has played a part a few times this season as has conceding early and we definitely struggle then.
Whoever said we look a bit improvised on the break made a fair criticism, decision making is something Tyreece needs to really work on as he is our real outlet for breaking and he doesn't do a terrible job of it. Losing Josh Edwards has really affected us as it did last season
I can forgive a lot of the technical shortcomings as the side don't lack commitment or effort and don't lose sight of how competitive this division is.
Some truly dreadful refereeing has cost us this season too7 -
Agree with the vast majority of your posts but really don't agree with this. They bring very different things, but Cov brings more than just mobility. For one thing he is quite often the player for us putting quality balls into the box from the right - have never seen Coady do that. Saying he has better mobility also covers a multitude of Coady's shortcomings. We play a three midfield that is often overrun, having someone who grafts and runs vs stands and commands is a big difference. I'm not even pro one or the other, but Cov has a lot more vs Coady than you are giving him credit for.NabySarr said:I agree that Jones got his selection wrong against Sheffield Wednesday, but yes it wasn’t the formation that was the problem, and I also don’t think Coady was the problem. Coady is just better than Coventry, Coventry is more mobile but Coady is better at literally everything else. Which is why whenever Coventry starts we lose, and whenever Coady starts we don’tWe should have started Campbell and/or Fevrier in our usual shape. The team we picked was too easy to defend against with a very one dimensional attack, lacking pace and width. But the formation and coady were not the problem
PS the Coady wins stat is such bs. Do you really think we'd have lost those games if Cov started, or won the others if Coady had? Coady's been good and it's not a coincidence but it's far from a determining factor3 -
The reason I always defend Coventry is because he is, by a distance, our most slandered player right now. No other player of ours gets such utter nonsense thrown at them. No other player of ours can put in that showing vs Ipswich and still get called useless0
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Tyreece Campbell.Leuth said:The reason I always defend Coventry is because he is, by a distance, our most slandered player right now. No other player of ours gets such utter nonsense thrown at them. No other player of ours can put in that showing vs Ipswich and still get called useless16 -
Agreed most slandered player (incorrectly) is TCDennisBooth said:
Tyreece Campbell.Leuth said:The reason I always defend Coventry is because he is, by a distance, our most slandered player right now. No other player of ours gets such utter nonsense thrown at them. No other player of ours can put in that showing vs Ipswich and still get called useless4 -
Oh that's true. Well I'm increasingly having to defend him too yes2
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The fact you haven’t said Campbell is laughable. Kaminski gets more stick, Macca gets more stick, Leaburn gets more stick. (Although tbf some of that probably is more deserved)Leuth said:The reason I always defend Coventry is because he is, by a distance, our most slandered player right now. No other player of ours gets such utter nonsense thrown at them. No other player of ours can put in that showing vs Ipswich and still get called uselessA lot of people don’t single out Coventry as well they just bring up the entire midfield is dreadful not just him as an individual.1 -
Coventry tends to go completely under the radar until you bring him up, then he gets criticised. He is totally fine. Not great, not bad, fine. He rarely makes the error that leads to a goal but he also rarely makes the defensive intervention to stop one. He’s also rarely directly involved in goals. Neither of those things are criticisms really, they just mean he goes unnoticedLeuth said:The reason I always defend Coventry is because he is, by a distance, our most slandered player right now. No other player of ours gets such utter nonsense thrown at them. No other player of ours can put in that showing vs Ipswich and still get called useless3
