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General Things That Annoy You thread - part 2
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Let’s ignore all the other evidence presented to you though eh.LargeAddick said:
I’ll stand corrected on the three Fordingbridge youngsters. However, the Brighton incident was committed by an Iranian national and two Egyptian nationals.ME14addick said:
Do you have a source for your claims?LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
They sound very much like the claims I've seen on far right social media posts?
How do you know the ethnicity of the rapists. I'm under the impression that as they are classed as children their identities can't be reported.
Rape is a horrible crime and needs to be properly punished but it's wrong to blame asylum seekers.
Have you seen some of the vile misogynistic posts of the Reform candidate for Makerfield? They're disgusting and he has admitted he is a sexist. He hurriedly deleted a lot of them. Reform have dismissed them as banter.
Any woman voting for this man has to be crazy.
Rapes, derogatory comments about women are not confined to asylum seekers.3 -
Live music before a Champion’s League final.1
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Somewhere else maybe, sure, but admins here have asked, repeatedly, for this stuff not to be debated, so why not just let it go?Gillis said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.However, the disproportionate focus on illegal immigration isn't productive, and should be challenged.0 -
To be fair The Killers performance might eclipse what we see on the pitch.The Red Robin said:Live music before a Champion’s League final.0 -
People that use the parent and child spaces at supermarkets, where one of the parents stays in the car with the kids.
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People that use the disabled spaces when not entitled to are worse.SporadicAddick said:People that use the parent and child spaces at supermarkets, where one of the parents stays in the car with the kids.7 -
Or people that don’t have kids at all.SporadicAddick said:People that use the parent and child spaces at supermarkets, where one of the parents stays in the car with the kids.1 -
Stoppages like the video ref and fake injuries taking a game of rugby league from 80 minutes to 100 minutes so you can’t watch it til the end because you have to turn it over for the champions league final 😩0
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My dad was a tolerant man who, who would be horrified that so many lies are being promoted by those with a vested interest to make people angry and deflect from other issues.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth, Large.LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
It's a shame that more who agree are concerned about the racist accusation so keep their thoughts to themselves.
I'm guessing it won't be too long before those mouths are unzipped & the flood gates open as our countrymen & women are further impacted by what's going on around us.
Another thought for our friend, ME14.
I know that you used to take your dear elderly Dad to home games which was great to hear.
I'm guessing that he fought in WW2 as did my Dad, a Commando. He was very proud of his country & that he had played a small part in sustaining its freedom but he would be tearful wheen talking about it, especially those dear friends/comrades who didn't make it back to Blighty.
I know without a doubt how he would react to what's happening to his country in 2026. And you wouldn't agree, that's for sure.
What do you think your Dad's thoughts would be ?
This country fought against Nazism, but the far right are using the same tactics that the Nazis used in Germany. They called Jews rats and blamed them for the problems that Germans were experiencing. They dehumanised and demonised them, as well as the sick, disabled and homosexuals. They kept on telling the people they were bad, until they dehumanised them so much, they were able to send them to detention camps.
We're seeing the far right doing exactly the same today, using the same playbook of demonising, dehumanising and now threatening to round them up and place them in detentions centres.
The far right use these tactics to rile up their support and deflect from their true aims which are to cut the public spending that the protects the population. Remove the employment and environmental laws that do the same and continue making huge profits from the fossil fuel industries that are are killing the planet.
Reform is mainly bankrolled by the fossil fuel industries, that are terrified that their ability to make huge profits will be curtailed by the need to reduce carbon emissions.
I don't have children or grandchildren, but I'm terrified by the thought of my nieces, nephews and their children living in a world where racism and bigotry win out over tolerance and care for others less fortunate. They will be living in a world of famine because the planet's climate has been wrecked by the drill baby drill ethos.10 -
Carter said:Nobody with a brain blames immigration for all the ills of this great nation
As for the case that the health service would collapse without immigration has always irritated me. The countries that these people come from, I am sure, have not run out of ill people nor are so oversubscribed for qualified healthcare professionals they can afford to have them leaving for the UK. To address that over-reliance it should be a lot easier for people already living in the UK to become, nurses, doctors and to be able to live whilst training.
At best, weird, subjective takes on what the police and justice system should act on, what it shouldn't and who should be arrested and charged for different offences.
The police privatising theft and ignoring anti-social behaviour
I was getting into it about stop and search a while ago in the pub and one of the blokes there chimed in. He might still be a copper but he definitely was then and he threw some numbers at us regarding knife crime, victims of knife crime, the demographics of it all and shrugged his shoulders and said something like "so what are we meant to do with that data" if we aren't meant to be stopping and searching people in the profile, in the area of where violent crime is prevalent.
The bits we cannot escape is the cost of welfare, illegal immigration is a not inconsiderate part of that. Not as much as people just not working and paying tax for a multitude of reasons but no escaping the fact more is spent on welfare than is collected in tax revenue.
I hate having to say this as if I'm pleading to quantify what is plain as day. I don't give a fuck where someone is from, I care when they are taking more than they are putting in which clearly is the case given our welfare bill. That is there to be a safety net, not a lifestyle choiceI think a lot of people would agree that there are issues with the welfare system, and have been for a long time. Like a lot of issues in this thread, it's also the case that there's no simple solution and no solution that will satisfy everyone.I do think it's important to note when talking about the cost of welfare, though, that over half of all welfare expenditure is on pensioners.5 -
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What happened to the "no need to mention the "p" word " ?ME14addick said:
My dad was a tolerant man who, who would be horrified that so many lies are being promoted by those with a vested interest to make people angry and deflect from other issues.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth, Large.LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
It's a shame that more who agree are concerned about the racist accusation so keep their thoughts to themselves.
I'm guessing it won't be too long before those mouths are unzipped & the flood gates open as our countrymen & women are further impacted by what's going on around us.
Another thought for our friend, ME14.
I know that you used to take your dear elderly Dad to home games which was great to hear.
I'm guessing that he fought in WW2 as did my Dad, a Commando. He was very proud of his country & that he had played a small part in sustaining its freedom but he would be tearful wheen talking about it, especially those dear friends/comrades who didn't make it back to Blighty.
I know without a doubt how he would react to what's happening to his country in 2026. And you wouldn't agree, that's for sure.
What do you think your Dad's thoughts would be ?
This country fought against Nazism, but the far right are using the same tactics that the Nazis used in Germany. They called Jews rats and blamed them for the problems that Germans were experiencing. They dehumanised and demonised them, as well as the sick, disabled and homosexuals. They kept on telling the people they were bad, until they dehumanised them so much, they were able to send them to detention camps.
We're seeing the far right doing exactly the same today, using the same playbook of demonising, dehumanising and now threatening to round them up and place them in detentions centres.
The far right use these tactics to rile up their support and deflect from their true aims which are to cut the public spending that the protects the population. Remove the employment and environmental laws that do the same and continue making huge profits from the fossil fuel industries that are are killing the planet.
Reform is mainly bankrolled by the fossil fuel industries, that are terrified that their ability to make huge profits will be curtailed by the need to reduce carbon emissions.
I don't have children or grandchildren, but I'm terrified by the thought of my nieces, nephews and their children living in a world where racism and bigotry win out over tolerance and care for others less fortunate. They will be living in a world of famine because the planet's climate has been wrecked by the drill baby drill ethos.
I'm certain you wouldn't like anyone questioning or, heaven forbid, disparaging/telling porkies about the party you clearly support so why should you be allowed to clearly name A N Other ?
Seems to me that you'd rather this thread was closed down....
I wonder why ?3 -
Yet you've responded. By not challenging views that are dangerous, they just continue to be made with the result that we see a huge rise in the spread of mis/disinformation. The people with far right views on immigrants, tend to be the ones that also don't believe in climate change, think that we're being sprayed to control us, that vaccines are harmful, that scientists arewrong and that the pandemic was a scam.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Somewhere else maybe, sure, but admins here have asked, repeatedly, for this stuff not to be debated, so why not just let it go?Gillis said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.However, the disproportionate focus on illegal immigration isn't productive, and should be challenged.3 -
But others just continue to deny it. It's such an important subject that I agree with Jean, needs to be heard so that the mis/disinformation can be stopped. We've seen what it leads to when an extreme right wing, corrupt racist, liar and misogynist is voted into a position of great power and it's not a pretty sight.SporadicAddick said:
I agree. But a challenge can be made in one short post and then left.ME14addick said:
If someone makes an inflammatory statement blaming a certain group, then it deserves to be challenged.SporadicAddick said:I wish some people on this thread would wind their necks in and STFU.
The removal of politics from the forum was a great move - it’s a better place for it.
a bit of self control can go a long way.A challenge doesn’t need to result in multiple pages of entrenched positions and arguments that won’t be resolved until such point as the thread is closed.
Perhaps those wanting the discussion to be closed down can't justify their arguments.2 -
Perhaps those wanting the discussion to be closed down want to enjoy a football forum with some other fun stuff thrown in?ME14addick said:
But others just continue to deny it. It's such an important subject that I agree with Jean, needs to be heard so that the mis/disinformation can be stopped. We've seen what it leads to when an extreme right wing, corrupt racist, liar and misogynist is voted into a position of great power and it's not a pretty sight.SporadicAddick said:
I agree. But a challenge can be made in one short post and then left.ME14addick said:
If someone makes an inflammatory statement blaming a certain group, then it deserves to be challenged.SporadicAddick said:I wish some people on this thread would wind their necks in and STFU.
The removal of politics from the forum was a great move - it’s a better place for it.
a bit of self control can go a long way.A challenge doesn’t need to result in multiple pages of entrenched positions and arguments that won’t be resolved until such point as the thread is closed.
Perhaps those wanting the discussion to be closed down can't justify their arguments.2 -
You did ask for the debate though, Fanny, and if you ignore the short paragraph that mentions party politics, there are still points in ME14's post that are relevant to the debate that could be addressed.Fanny Fanackapan said:
What happened to the "no need to mention the "p" word " ?ME14addick said:
My dad was a tolerant man who, who would be horrified that so many lies are being promoted by those with a vested interest to make people angry and deflect from other issues.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth, Large.LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
It's a shame that more who agree are concerned about the racist accusation so keep their thoughts to themselves.
I'm guessing it won't be too long before those mouths are unzipped & the flood gates open as our countrymen & women are further impacted by what's going on around us.
Another thought for our friend, ME14.
I know that you used to take your dear elderly Dad to home games which was great to hear.
I'm guessing that he fought in WW2 as did my Dad, a Commando. He was very proud of his country & that he had played a small part in sustaining its freedom but he would be tearful wheen talking about it, especially those dear friends/comrades who didn't make it back to Blighty.
I know without a doubt how he would react to what's happening to his country in 2026. And you wouldn't agree, that's for sure.
What do you think your Dad's thoughts would be ?
This country fought against Nazism, but the far right are using the same tactics that the Nazis used in Germany. They called Jews rats and blamed them for the problems that Germans were experiencing. They dehumanised and demonised them, as well as the sick, disabled and homosexuals. They kept on telling the people they were bad, until they dehumanised them so much, they were able to send them to detention camps.
We're seeing the far right doing exactly the same today, using the same playbook of demonising, dehumanising and now threatening to round them up and place them in detentions centres.
The far right use these tactics to rile up their support and deflect from their true aims which are to cut the public spending that the protects the population. Remove the employment and environmental laws that do the same and continue making huge profits from the fossil fuel industries that are are killing the planet.
Reform is mainly bankrolled by the fossil fuel industries, that are terrified that their ability to make huge profits will be curtailed by the need to reduce carbon emissions.
I don't have children or grandchildren, but I'm terrified by the thought of my nieces, nephews and their children living in a world where racism and bigotry win out over tolerance and care for others less fortunate. They will be living in a world of famine because the planet's climate has been wrecked by the drill baby drill ethos.
I'm certain you wouldn't like anyone questioning or, heaven forbid, disparaging/telling porkies about the party you clearly support so why should you be allowed to clearly name A N Other ?
Seems to me that you'd rather this thread was closed down....
I wonder why ?4 -
Nobody is forcing you to read this thread. There are plenty of football threads you can read.SporadicAddick said:
Perhaps those wanting the discussion to be closed down want to enjoy a football forum with some other fun stuff thrown in?ME14addick said:
But others just continue to deny it. It's such an important subject that I agree with Jean, needs to be heard so that the mis/disinformation can be stopped. We've seen what it leads to when an extreme right wing, corrupt racist, liar and misogynist is voted into a position of great power and it's not a pretty sight.SporadicAddick said:
I agree. But a challenge can be made in one short post and then left.ME14addick said:
If someone makes an inflammatory statement blaming a certain group, then it deserves to be challenged.SporadicAddick said:I wish some people on this thread would wind their necks in and STFU.
The removal of politics from the forum was a great move - it’s a better place for it.
a bit of self control can go a long way.A challenge doesn’t need to result in multiple pages of entrenched positions and arguments that won’t be resolved until such point as the thread is closed.
Perhaps those wanting the discussion to be closed down can't justify their arguments.4 -
Dear ME14,
Your Damascene conversion from life-long Tory voter and sympathiser to Labour supporter is reminiscent of those 40 fags a day smokers who give up smoking and then make a show of coughing when someone lights up in the next street; an ex-smoker grimacing with pharisaic indignation declaring for all to hear how 'selfish' the smoker is.
Well, maybe they have a point, as do you, and I think your motives and aspirations are genuine.
But to denounce anything that your recently unearthed, leftist leanings take umbrage at as being far-right - therefore being rendered negligible - is simply lazy; it is not a cogent argument, and it is in need of evidence.
The same applies to the far-right who, when their opinions or tenets are challenged, resort to the same tactic with unthinking condemnations of 'far-left/communist'
I had always voted Labour until Blair took us into that illegal war with Bush, and I haven’t voted since, but I consider the way I behave and conduct myself as being a left-leaning liberal.
It's easy - too easy - to talk of one's own political bent, but another thing to exercise it materially: how does one conduct themselves, how does one behave in society; their community; workplace; street; home; family?
That is the true measure of an individual's politics.3 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:
Somewhere else maybe, sure, but admins here have asked, repeatedly, for this stuff not to be debated, so why not just let it go?Gillis said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.However, the disproportionate focus on illegal immigration isn't productive, and should be challenged.Couldn't the same equally be asked of your post that I was responding to, though?Fanny has asked for a respectful debate on the topic, and when people see particular points of view put forward that they disgaree with, it's only natural to want to comment. People have been discussing it civilly so far, and most posters here are perfectly capable of having a civil discussion, although I acknowledge there will be those who can't and the whole thing will probably end badly.It's a shame, though, as the opportunities for people to have these kind of open, respectful disagreements, where we can actually listen to other people's points of view, seem to be fewer and fewer. There are so many echo chambers now and so much discourse is algorithmically driven, that people don't often get a chance to have these sometimes difficult conversations with other normal people (to the extent that anyone on a Charlton forum is a normal person).However, I completely understand why the mods don't want to spend their free time dealing with the fallout from it all, so perhaps everyone should leave it here? If people keep the debate going, though, it's inevitable that people will want to respond (until the thread gets closed, in all likelihood).2 -
I hate seeing threads closed down, especially 'p' threads. I am happy to argue against any of the far right views put forward. I was actually a Tory voter for 50 years, used to read the Daily Mail and questioned whether man made climate change was real. I also voted to leave the EU, to my eternal shame.Fanny Fanackapan said:
What happened to the "no need to mention the "p" word " ?ME14addick said:
My dad was a tolerant man who, who would be horrified that so many lies are being promoted by those with a vested interest to make people angry and deflect from other issues.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth, Large.LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
It's a shame that more who agree are concerned about the racist accusation so keep their thoughts to themselves.
I'm guessing it won't be too long before those mouths are unzipped & the flood gates open as our countrymen & women are further impacted by what's going on around us.
Another thought for our friend, ME14.
I know that you used to take your dear elderly Dad to home games which was great to hear.
I'm guessing that he fought in WW2 as did my Dad, a Commando. He was very proud of his country & that he had played a small part in sustaining its freedom but he would be tearful wheen talking about it, especially those dear friends/comrades who didn't make it back to Blighty.
I know without a doubt how he would react to what's happening to his country in 2026. And you wouldn't agree, that's for sure.
What do you think your Dad's thoughts would be ?
This country fought against Nazism, but the far right are using the same tactics that the Nazis used in Germany. They called Jews rats and blamed them for the problems that Germans were experiencing. They dehumanised and demonised them, as well as the sick, disabled and homosexuals. They kept on telling the people they were bad, until they dehumanised them so much, they were able to send them to detention camps.
We're seeing the far right doing exactly the same today, using the same playbook of demonising, dehumanising and now threatening to round them up and place them in detentions centres.
The far right use these tactics to rile up their support and deflect from their true aims which are to cut the public spending that the protects the population. Remove the employment and environmental laws that do the same and continue making huge profits from the fossil fuel industries that are are killing the planet.
Reform is mainly bankrolled by the fossil fuel industries, that are terrified that their ability to make huge profits will be curtailed by the need to reduce carbon emissions.
I don't have children or grandchildren, but I'm terrified by the thought of my nieces, nephews and their children living in a world where racism and bigotry win out over tolerance and care for others less fortunate. They will be living in a world of famine because the planet's climate has been wrecked by the drill baby drill ethos.
I'm certain you wouldn't like anyone questioning or, heaven forbid, disparaging/telling porkies about the party you clearly support so why should you be allowed to clearly name A N Other ?
Seems to me that you'd rather this thread was closed down....
I wonder why ?
When the last Government lurched to the right and the lies became too much, I could no longer support them and voted Labour for the first time in my life, at the least election. Anyone who posted on the Politics threads will be able to confirm this. Labour are not perfect and they have made quite a few mistakes, but they are far better for the ordinary person than the billionaire backed populist party.
The thought of a Reform Government that would introduce an insurance based healthcare system terrifies me. We would all be required to take out expensive insurance cover, with companies whose main aim is to make a profit. If you make too many claims your cover would be stopped or your premiums rise massively, eventually your cover may be stopped, that's what happens in the USA. Over half a million people are made bankrupt each year, citing medical bills as the reason. I dread to think how much my husband's cancer treatment has cost and how we would cope if we had to pay for it. You and I are both pensioners, how would you feel if you were made to take out expensive insurance cover, for something you've paid taxes and NI all your life? Privatisation has been a disaster for this country, with the chickens now coming home to roost.
7 -
Sponsored links:
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Always enjoyed this thread … so fucking annoying it’s now going the way of other closed threads5
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If it gets closed down, it's because of people calling for that. Why not just join in with your own argument or not bother to read it? It's always the same people who call for anything remotely to do with politics to be closed down.stonemuse said:Always enjoyed this thread … so fucking annoying it’s now going the way of other closed threads4 -
On the NHS, we already have a two tier system, in my opinion. You can either wait ages to have treatment on the NHS, maybe even die in the process, or you can pay thousands to go privately. The NHS is broken, in my opinion. No one party to blame, it’s been going downhill for years. This isn’t a P post, just an observation of my recent experiences.ME14addick said:
I hate seeing threads closed down, especially 'p' threads. I am happy to argue against any of the far right views put forward. I was actually a Tory voter for 50 years, used to read the Daily Mail and questioned whether man made climate change was real. I also voted to leave the EU, to my eternal shame.Fanny Fanackapan said:
What happened to the "no need to mention the "p" word " ?ME14addick said:
My dad was a tolerant man who, who would be horrified that so many lies are being promoted by those with a vested interest to make people angry and deflect from other issues.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth, Large.LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
It's a shame that more who agree are concerned about the racist accusation so keep their thoughts to themselves.
I'm guessing it won't be too long before those mouths are unzipped & the flood gates open as our countrymen & women are further impacted by what's going on around us.
Another thought for our friend, ME14.
I know that you used to take your dear elderly Dad to home games which was great to hear.
I'm guessing that he fought in WW2 as did my Dad, a Commando. He was very proud of his country & that he had played a small part in sustaining its freedom but he would be tearful wheen talking about it, especially those dear friends/comrades who didn't make it back to Blighty.
I know without a doubt how he would react to what's happening to his country in 2026. And you wouldn't agree, that's for sure.
What do you think your Dad's thoughts would be ?
This country fought against Nazism, but the far right are using the same tactics that the Nazis used in Germany. They called Jews rats and blamed them for the problems that Germans were experiencing. They dehumanised and demonised them, as well as the sick, disabled and homosexuals. They kept on telling the people they were bad, until they dehumanised them so much, they were able to send them to detention camps.
We're seeing the far right doing exactly the same today, using the same playbook of demonising, dehumanising and now threatening to round them up and place them in detentions centres.
The far right use these tactics to rile up their support and deflect from their true aims which are to cut the public spending that the protects the population. Remove the employment and environmental laws that do the same and continue making huge profits from the fossil fuel industries that are are killing the planet.
Reform is mainly bankrolled by the fossil fuel industries, that are terrified that their ability to make huge profits will be curtailed by the need to reduce carbon emissions.
I don't have children or grandchildren, but I'm terrified by the thought of my nieces, nephews and their children living in a world where racism and bigotry win out over tolerance and care for others less fortunate. They will be living in a world of famine because the planet's climate has been wrecked by the drill baby drill ethos.
I'm certain you wouldn't like anyone questioning or, heaven forbid, disparaging/telling porkies about the party you clearly support so why should you be allowed to clearly name A N Other ?
Seems to me that you'd rather this thread was closed down....
I wonder why ?
When the last Government lurched to the right and the lies became too much, I could no longer support them and voted Labour for the first time in my life, at the least election. Anyone who posted on the Politics threads will be able to confirm this. Labour are not perfect and they have made quite a few mistakes, but they are far better for the ordinary person than the billionaire backed populist party.
The thought of a Reform Government that would introduce an insurance based healthcare system terrifies me. We would all be required to take out expensive insurance cover, with companies whose main aim is to make a profit. If you make too many claims your cover would be stopped or your premiums rise massively, eventually your cover may be stopped, that's what happens in the USA. Over half a million people are made bankrupt each year, citing medical bills as the reason. I dread to think how much my husband's cancer treatment has cost and how we would cope if we had to pay for it. You and I are both pensioners, how would you feel if you were made to take out expensive insurance cover, for something you've paid taxes and NI all your life? Privatisation has been a disaster for this country, with the chickens now coming home to roost.2 -
Why not abide by the rules that admin keep reiterating … no politics
🤷2 -
It doesn't have to be that way if people can put forward a good counter argument. It's the people that keep calling for threads to be closed that are the annoying ones.Gillis said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Somewhere else maybe, sure, but admins here have asked, repeatedly, for this stuff not to be debated, so why not just let it go?Gillis said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.However, the disproportionate focus on illegal immigration isn't productive, and should be challenged.Couldn't the same equally be asked of your post that I was responding to, though?Fanny has asked for a respectful debate on the topic, and when people see particular points of view put forward that they disgaree with, it's only natural to want to comment. People have been discussing it civilly so far, and most posters here are perfectly capable of having a civil discussion, although I acknowledge there will be those who can't and the whole thing will probably end badly.It's a shame, though, as the opportunities for people to have these kind of open, respectful disagreements, where we can actually listen to other people's points of view, seem to be fewer and fewer. There are so many echo chambers now and so much discourse is algorithmically driven, that people don't often get a chance to have these sometimes difficult conversations with other normal people (to the extent that anyone on a Charlton forum is a normal person).However, I completely understand why the mods don't want to spend their free time dealing with the fallout from it all, so perhaps everyone should leave it here? If people keep the debate going, though, it's inevitable that people will want to respond (until the thread gets closed, in all likelihood).1 -
I want to read funny things that annoy people.ME14addick said:
Nobody is forcing you to read this thread. There are plenty of football threads you can read.SporadicAddick said:
Perhaps those wanting the discussion to be closed down want to enjoy a football forum with some other fun stuff thrown in?ME14addick said:
But others just continue to deny it. It's such an important subject that I agree with Jean, needs to be heard so that the mis/disinformation can be stopped. We've seen what it leads to when an extreme right wing, corrupt racist, liar and misogynist is voted into a position of great power and it's not a pretty sight.SporadicAddick said:
I agree. But a challenge can be made in one short post and then left.ME14addick said:
If someone makes an inflammatory statement blaming a certain group, then it deserves to be challenged.SporadicAddick said:I wish some people on this thread would wind their necks in and STFU.
The removal of politics from the forum was a great move - it’s a better place for it.
a bit of self control can go a long way.A challenge doesn’t need to result in multiple pages of entrenched positions and arguments that won’t be resolved until such point as the thread is closed.
Perhaps those wanting the discussion to be closed down can't justify their arguments.
There are plenty of politics echo chambers where you would be welcome.6 -
I did not start this discussion, but will challenge something that I believe to be incorrect. To keep to the thread topic, I find misinformation and disinformation very annoying.stonemuse said:Why not abide by the rules that admin keep reiterating … no politics
🤷5 -
My husband had a mini stroke last August and was immediately scanned in A & E. He had a couple more scans very soon after, and one found a mass in his lung. He had other tests very quickly and it was quickly confirmed as lung cancer. He has had numerous scans, radiotherapy, chemotherapy and now immunotherapy. All very expensive, but none that he has had to pay for.LargeAddick said:
On the NHS, we already have a two tier system, in my opinion. You can either wait ages to have treatment on the NHS, maybe even die in the process, or you can pay thousands to go privately. The NHS is broken, in my opinion. No one party to blame, it’s been going downhill for years. This isn’t a P post, just an observation of my recent experiences.ME14addick said:
I hate seeing threads closed down, especially 'p' threads. I am happy to argue against any of the far right views put forward. I was actually a Tory voter for 50 years, used to read the Daily Mail and questioned whether man made climate change was real. I also voted to leave the EU, to my eternal shame.Fanny Fanackapan said:
What happened to the "no need to mention the "p" word " ?ME14addick said:
My dad was a tolerant man who, who would be horrified that so many lies are being promoted by those with a vested interest to make people angry and deflect from other issues.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth, Large.LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
It's a shame that more who agree are concerned about the racist accusation so keep their thoughts to themselves.
I'm guessing it won't be too long before those mouths are unzipped & the flood gates open as our countrymen & women are further impacted by what's going on around us.
Another thought for our friend, ME14.
I know that you used to take your dear elderly Dad to home games which was great to hear.
I'm guessing that he fought in WW2 as did my Dad, a Commando. He was very proud of his country & that he had played a small part in sustaining its freedom but he would be tearful wheen talking about it, especially those dear friends/comrades who didn't make it back to Blighty.
I know without a doubt how he would react to what's happening to his country in 2026. And you wouldn't agree, that's for sure.
What do you think your Dad's thoughts would be ?
This country fought against Nazism, but the far right are using the same tactics that the Nazis used in Germany. They called Jews rats and blamed them for the problems that Germans were experiencing. They dehumanised and demonised them, as well as the sick, disabled and homosexuals. They kept on telling the people they were bad, until they dehumanised them so much, they were able to send them to detention camps.
We're seeing the far right doing exactly the same today, using the same playbook of demonising, dehumanising and now threatening to round them up and place them in detentions centres.
The far right use these tactics to rile up their support and deflect from their true aims which are to cut the public spending that the protects the population. Remove the employment and environmental laws that do the same and continue making huge profits from the fossil fuel industries that are are killing the planet.
Reform is mainly bankrolled by the fossil fuel industries, that are terrified that their ability to make huge profits will be curtailed by the need to reduce carbon emissions.
I don't have children or grandchildren, but I'm terrified by the thought of my nieces, nephews and their children living in a world where racism and bigotry win out over tolerance and care for others less fortunate. They will be living in a world of famine because the planet's climate has been wrecked by the drill baby drill ethos.
I'm certain you wouldn't like anyone questioning or, heaven forbid, disparaging/telling porkies about the party you clearly support so why should you be allowed to clearly name A N Other ?
Seems to me that you'd rather this thread was closed down....
I wonder why ?
When the last Government lurched to the right and the lies became too much, I could no longer support them and voted Labour for the first time in my life, at the least election. Anyone who posted on the Politics threads will be able to confirm this. Labour are not perfect and they have made quite a few mistakes, but they are far better for the ordinary person than the billionaire backed populist party.
The thought of a Reform Government that would introduce an insurance based healthcare system terrifies me. We would all be required to take out expensive insurance cover, with companies whose main aim is to make a profit. If you make too many claims your cover would be stopped or your premiums rise massively, eventually your cover may be stopped, that's what happens in the USA. Over half a million people are made bankrupt each year, citing medical bills as the reason. I dread to think how much my husband's cancer treatment has cost and how we would cope if we had to pay for it. You and I are both pensioners, how would you feel if you were made to take out expensive insurance cover, for something you've paid taxes and NI all your life? Privatisation has been a disaster for this country, with the chickens now coming home to roost.
The care he has received from the NHS is exemplary and the staff all amazing. Our own GP surgery gets back to you the same day with the online triage system. We may be lucky but I can't fault the NHS.
The NHS isn't broken, that is just another far right piece of propaganda, so that the suggestion of an insurance scheme is accepted.5 -
Glad your husband got the care he needed and hope he’s now on the mend. However, in the last two years that isn’t the experience that either myself or my Dad had. And for the record I just want the NHS to improve and the last thing I want is any sort of insurance scheme or self funding. The NHS is in the main wonderful and should remain free to all.ME14addick said:
My husband had a mini stroke last August and was immediately scanned in A & E. He had a couple more scans very soon after, and one found a mass in his lung. He had other tests very quickly and it was quickly confirmed as lung cancer. He has had numerous scans, radiotherapy, chemotherapy and now immunotherapy. All very expensive, but none that he has had to pay for.LargeAddick said:
On the NHS, we already have a two tier system, in my opinion. You can either wait ages to have treatment on the NHS, maybe even die in the process, or you can pay thousands to go privately. The NHS is broken, in my opinion. No one party to blame, it’s been going downhill for years. This isn’t a P post, just an observation of my recent experiences.ME14addick said:
I hate seeing threads closed down, especially 'p' threads. I am happy to argue against any of the far right views put forward. I was actually a Tory voter for 50 years, used to read the Daily Mail and questioned whether man made climate change was real. I also voted to leave the EU, to my eternal shame.Fanny Fanackapan said:
What happened to the "no need to mention the "p" word " ?ME14addick said:
My dad was a tolerant man who, who would be horrified that so many lies are being promoted by those with a vested interest to make people angry and deflect from other issues.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth, Large.LargeAddick said:I’ll say it again in case anyone is hard of hearing.
I’m not against immigration. Legal immigration. You want to come to the UK then go through the proper channels. If you want to come here, work, pay taxes, be a law abiding citizen and adhere to our laws then great, no problem, you are welcome.If however you want to come here illegally, take handouts, trash accommodation you are provided with, break our laws including many, many cases of sexual assaults on women and young girls many being raped then no you are not welcome. It’s happening, it can’t be denied. The two 15 year olds raped in Fordingbridge, their ordeal being filmed and shared on social media. A young woman raped by three men on Brighton beach. And we can’t even kick any of them out due to their human rights. I mean what the actual fuck.
Most of the young men coming to this country are doing so because we are a soft touch. Not many disembarking boats are women and children. No they are left benind to fend for themselves. Young men, allegedly from war torn countries, who complain that the hotel they are put up in isn’t good enough but maybe it would be nicer if they didn’t continually trash them. I know this happens. A friend worked as a maintenance man in an Eastbourne hotel housing illegal immigrants. Day after day he was repairing the same items he’d repaired the day before. They were trashing the hotel on a daily basis. You’d have thought they’d be grateful. It was soul destroying for him. In the end he quit. It took him ten months to find another job but at least his mental health was no longer suffering.
If people don’t like what I’m saying, don’t agree then fair enough. But I know that a great many others do and frankly we are sick and tired of it.
It's a shame that more who agree are concerned about the racist accusation so keep their thoughts to themselves.
I'm guessing it won't be too long before those mouths are unzipped & the flood gates open as our countrymen & women are further impacted by what's going on around us.
Another thought for our friend, ME14.
I know that you used to take your dear elderly Dad to home games which was great to hear.
I'm guessing that he fought in WW2 as did my Dad, a Commando. He was very proud of his country & that he had played a small part in sustaining its freedom but he would be tearful wheen talking about it, especially those dear friends/comrades who didn't make it back to Blighty.
I know without a doubt how he would react to what's happening to his country in 2026. And you wouldn't agree, that's for sure.
What do you think your Dad's thoughts would be ?
This country fought against Nazism, but the far right are using the same tactics that the Nazis used in Germany. They called Jews rats and blamed them for the problems that Germans were experiencing. They dehumanised and demonised them, as well as the sick, disabled and homosexuals. They kept on telling the people they were bad, until they dehumanised them so much, they were able to send them to detention camps.
We're seeing the far right doing exactly the same today, using the same playbook of demonising, dehumanising and now threatening to round them up and place them in detentions centres.
The far right use these tactics to rile up their support and deflect from their true aims which are to cut the public spending that the protects the population. Remove the employment and environmental laws that do the same and continue making huge profits from the fossil fuel industries that are are killing the planet.
Reform is mainly bankrolled by the fossil fuel industries, that are terrified that their ability to make huge profits will be curtailed by the need to reduce carbon emissions.
I don't have children or grandchildren, but I'm terrified by the thought of my nieces, nephews and their children living in a world where racism and bigotry win out over tolerance and care for others less fortunate. They will be living in a world of famine because the planet's climate has been wrecked by the drill baby drill ethos.
I'm certain you wouldn't like anyone questioning or, heaven forbid, disparaging/telling porkies about the party you clearly support so why should you be allowed to clearly name A N Other ?
Seems to me that you'd rather this thread was closed down....
I wonder why ?
When the last Government lurched to the right and the lies became too much, I could no longer support them and voted Labour for the first time in my life, at the least election. Anyone who posted on the Politics threads will be able to confirm this. Labour are not perfect and they have made quite a few mistakes, but they are far better for the ordinary person than the billionaire backed populist party.
The thought of a Reform Government that would introduce an insurance based healthcare system terrifies me. We would all be required to take out expensive insurance cover, with companies whose main aim is to make a profit. If you make too many claims your cover would be stopped or your premiums rise massively, eventually your cover may be stopped, that's what happens in the USA. Over half a million people are made bankrupt each year, citing medical bills as the reason. I dread to think how much my husband's cancer treatment has cost and how we would cope if we had to pay for it. You and I are both pensioners, how would you feel if you were made to take out expensive insurance cover, for something you've paid taxes and NI all your life? Privatisation has been a disaster for this country, with the chickens now coming home to roost.
The care he has received from the NHS is exemplary and the staff all amazing. Our own GP surgery gets back to you the same day with the online triage system. We may be lucky but I can't fault the NHS.
The NHS isn't broken, that is just another far right piece of propaganda, so that the suggestion of an insurance scheme is accepted.1 -
Can I just say thanks to all that have ruined an enjoyable thread.No politics on this forum works, and those that perpetuate divisive political discussions in the full knowledge that’s it’s against the forum’s requests should be banned.
it’s happened before to people that couldn’t help themselves and I genuinely hope it happens again.4
