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Re your last point, Fanny, oh yes they have and I think you might not like the answer.Fans calling out other fans on this is really not the way to go.1
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Well I can't think of any that have been allowed out during the last 12 months or so and that was a club directive, there's now a club directive that gives opportunities to meet players that will have been passed at a CAFC board level. The board will not have done that without consulting NJ, they aren't stupid enough for that. Regardless of what went before, that's an improvement on the last 12 months.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Ain't that the truth !Henry Irving said:
Not accurate at all.Weegie Addick said:Funnily enough CAST hasn’t received the email either. Maybe the club assumes some of us know a bit about it already.
Being an officially registered group includes involvement in the Supporters’ Forum which is part of the club’s formal fan engagement plan. Though it’s more accurate for the club to say the overall objective here is about strengthening fan connections.
They already had all those connections.
They are reinventing the wheel, just very badly after taking very poor advice from the advisory board.
Basically a case of the blind leading the blind IMO.
I understand that no members of the few SG s ( I know 2 of the Chairs of those still in existence ) had any meaningful input in the discussions held & no-one at Board level who would have rubber stamped this "initiative"
would have the slightest idea of what might work !
But of course, this would have been initiated following "guide lines" as to how Premier League clubs run theirs.
Another example of trying to run before you can walk.?
Weegie mentions the possibility of some kind of paid membership. But paid to whom ? The Groups themselves for obvious outgoings or to the Club ? If the former, Groups will need a Treasurer, a Membership Sec, a bank account etc. Oh & a venue for holding meetings, probably with a hire fee.
As for " exclusive club benefits " , and "access to competitions & prize draws", isn't that what VG offers to its members ? Surely this initiative won't affect that well regarded scheme which actually benefits the Academy ?
It will be very interesting to hear feedback on this & of course, how many new Groups will sign up. The guidelines that will be issued to potential new ones will need to be well researched in advance.
However, anyone that has been involved in running a successful SG before or has attended a meeting in the past will testify that the most successful evenings are those with a player/s as the guest....as long as said Group's "area" isn't too far from SE7....
Wonder whether anyone's thought to ask Nathan how he feels about allowing HIS lads out during the season ?
It's very easy to throw stones and criticise the Advisory Board but they are just that, advisory. They can only work within the framework that the club set them and then the club can decide whether to implement the advice, ignore it, or something in between the two.
Is it perfect? No. Was the old system perfect? Also no. But it's silly to pretend there aren't positives here. The biggest issue people have here is a lack of someone to communicate with, fan groups will now have someone directly able to do so and the process for joining the fans forum seems like it will be more official too. Those last things are much more important now we have the IFR and it's good to have them more official.
And don't forget, we all had the chance to stand on the Advisory Board and have an influence on these changes should we have wished2 -
I am well aware of the answer, Weegie. Just ask the Chair of the very successful SG that has survived.Weegie Addick said:Re your last point, Fanny, oh yes they have and I think you might not like the answer.Fans calling out other fans on this is really not the way to go.
" Calling out other fans " is not my intention.
But not involving the 2 SGs that have managed to survive over the years is disrespectful IMO. And I shall continue to repeat that this process is the blind leading the blind. Why on earth would you reject the input of those who have " been there, have the Tshirt" , and start over from scratch ? Only time will tell but as HI posted, it appears to be a case of trying to reinvent the wheel....
I could make many more observations but will keep my powder dry for the time being & watch with interest how this initiative pans out.
And, in conclusion, I will not share my personal experience of being Chair of another succesful SG, NWKA , for more years than I can remember, unless directly questioned by fellow Lifers.
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Hi Fanny,Fanny Fanackapan said:
I am well aware of the answer, Weegie. Just ask the Chair of the very successful SG that has survived.Weegie Addick said:Re your last point, Fanny, oh yes they have and I think you might not like the answer.Fans calling out other fans on this is really not the way to go.
" Calling out other fans " is not my intention.
But not involving the 2 SGs that have managed to survive over the years is disrespectful IMO. And I shall continue to repeat that this process is the blind leading the blind. Why on earth would you reject the input of those who have " been there, have the Tshirt" , and start over from scratch ? Only time will tell but as HI posted, it appears to be a case of trying to reinvent the wheel....
I could make many more observations but will keep my powder dry for the time being & watch with interest how this initiative pans out.
And, in conclusion, I will not share my personal experience of being Chair of another succesful SG, NWKA , for more years than I can remember, unless directly questioned by fellow Lifers.
Just to clarify - a member of the T&C group contacted every Supporter Group that was/is currently on the club website- for feedback, ideas and comments at an early part of the process. Their comments fed directly back into the guidelines of the new proposals.
One of the current board of a long surviving SG was directly involved in said T&C group too…1 -
Just win games!4
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Have to say that the proudest boast of CASC - the “official” supporters’ club for many years, was that it was independent of the football club. This enabled it to do things that fans wanted but the club didn’t, including travel and campaigning around The Valley. At other times it had very productive relationships with club officials and directors - Target 10,000 for example.
The last thing we would ever have done is sought some kind of permissive relationship with the club. This is about monetisation, pure and simple. Don’t be fooled.9 -
Your first paragraph remains exactly the stance of CAST - we intend to apply for “official” status but very much as the independent supporters’ trust.Airman Brown said:Have to say that the proudest boast of CASC - the “official” supporters’ club for many years was that it was independent of the football club. This enabled it to do things that fans wanted but the club didn’t, including travel and campaigning around The Valley. At other times it had very productive relationships with club officials and directors - Target 10,000 for example.
The late thing we would ever have done is sought some kind of permissive relationship with the club. This is about monetisation, pure and simple. Don’t be fooled.We will take the position of “critical friend” when - like now - we feel we have an ownership with the best interests of the club at heart.We will continue to advocate for fans on issues of concern and not shirk from speaking truth to the powers that be at the club.Equally we will aim to work constructively with the club to develop and grow the fanbase, for example, and uphold our values as the original community club, all different, all together, all Charlton.Sorry, not intending to go all “political speech” here!0 -
Charlton fans - bickering amongst themselves over which supporters group is the best since 1905.
It was always thus.5 -
Very kind of you to say. Others are good too thoughOff_it said:Charlton fans - bickering amongst themselves over which supporters group is the best since 1905.
It was always us.3 -
Looks as if Supporters’ Groups are this week becoming ‘Official Supporters’ Groups’! Great to see
Believe there has been some good interest and new groups set up, so it’ll be interesting to see who gets the first Player appearance event😉
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This site is Officially Unofficial 🏴☠️6
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Bromley Addicks were an "official" group under Sandgaard. The wheel truely has been re-invented.sammy391 said:Looks as if Supporters’ Groups are this week becoming ‘Official Supporters’ Groups’! Great to see
Believe there has been some good interest and new groups set up, so it’ll be interesting to see who gets the first Player appearance event😉
Since you, as part of the T&C group, banned personal player, and director, appearances by players away from the Valley and so greatly undermined the existing regional groups that comment isn't very funny.
But since you ask I suspect CAST will get first player appearance event.2 -
You know very well what you have posted there is false, but keep banging that drum aye!Henry Irving said:
Bromley Addicks were an "official" group under Sandgaard. The wheel truely has been re-invented.sammy391 said:Looks as if Supporters’ Groups are this week becoming ‘Official Supporters’ Groups’! Great to see
Believe there has been some good interest and new groups set up, so it’ll be interesting to see who gets the first Player appearance event😉
Since you, as part of the T&C group, banned personal player, and director, appearances by players away from the Valley and so greatly undermined the existing regional groups that comment isn't very funny.
But since you ask I suspect CAST will get first player appearance event.Player Appearances have been off the cards since NJ arrived, well before the AB/T&C Group were asked to work on the Supporters’ Groups package…but again, you know that.
It was actually the AB that insisted on having Player Events/Appearances included, and fought our way with that!No idea how anyone has been ‘undermined - fairness to groups further afield like Dubai Addicks/CFiS/Spanish Addicks with appearances.
No CAST request for any player appearances thus far, but will be sure to let you know as/when👍🏻1 -
Expect the 1st one of the new season will be for West Country Addicks, eh , sammy ?sammy391 said:
You know very well what you have posted there is false, but keep banging that drum aye!Henry Irving said:
Bromley Addicks were an "official" group under Sandgaard. The wheel truely has been re-invented.sammy391 said:Looks as if Supporters’ Groups are this week becoming ‘Official Supporters’ Groups’! Great to see
Believe there has been some good interest and new groups set up, so it’ll be interesting to see who gets the first Player appearance event😉
Since you, as part of the T&C group, banned personal player, and director, appearances by players away from the Valley and so greatly undermined the existing regional groups that comment isn't very funny.
But since you ask I suspect CAST will get first player appearance event.Player Appearances have been off the cards since NJ arrived, well before the AB/T&C Group were asked to work on the Supporters’ Groups package…but again, you know that.
It was actually the AB that insisted on having Player Events/Appearances included, and fought our way with that!No idea how anyone has been ‘undermined - fairness to groups further afield like Dubai Addicks/CFiS/Spanish Addicks with appearances.
No CAST request for any player appearances thus far, but will be sure to let you know as/when👍🏻
As long as they can get to The Valley for 7pm on a weekday
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Did NJ ban director appearances as well?
Or is that just an excuse you're hiding behind?
And if NJ has banned player appearances why did your T&C group say groups could have players as guests but only at the Valley or Sparrows Lane?
If NJ has banned player appearances then why was there a club organised meeting with players during last season?
If NJ has banned player appearances then how can CAST or anyone request player appearances?
You say I'm lying but your contradict yourself immediately.
Maybe if you would share the protocol you wrote with supporter groups and even the other T&C members there would be some clarity but despite being asked numerous times you have not done so.
All groups such as East Kent and Bromley want is a couple of current players and maybe a manager or director to attend our meetings in East Kent or Bromley. Instead fans had to travel from Ashford for a 36 min Q&A where they couldn't ask any questions.
It worked well for years, fan lead fan engagement but that was too simple, not totally controlled so everything had to be ripped up to replace it with something far worse.4 -
I’m sure if WCAddicks want a player appearance, they’ll be requesting an online meet!Fanny Fanackapan said:
Expect the 1st one of the new season will be for West Country Addicks, eh , sammy ?sammy391 said:
You know very well what you have posted there is false, but keep banging that drum aye!Henry Irving said:
Bromley Addicks were an "official" group under Sandgaard. The wheel truely has been re-invented.sammy391 said:Looks as if Supporters’ Groups are this week becoming ‘Official Supporters’ Groups’! Great to see
Believe there has been some good interest and new groups set up, so it’ll be interesting to see who gets the first Player appearance event😉
Since you, as part of the T&C group, banned personal player, and director, appearances by players away from the Valley and so greatly undermined the existing regional groups that comment isn't very funny.
But since you ask I suspect CAST will get first player appearance event.Player Appearances have been off the cards since NJ arrived, well before the AB/T&C Group were asked to work on the Supporters’ Groups package…but again, you know that.
It was actually the AB that insisted on having Player Events/Appearances included, and fought our way with that!No idea how anyone has been ‘undermined - fairness to groups further afield like Dubai Addicks/CFiS/Spanish Addicks with appearances.
No CAST request for any player appearances thus far, but will be sure to let you know as/when👍🏻
As long as they can get to The Valley for 7pm on a weekdayI’d imagine CFiS have their eyes on an online meet with Doc/edwards!Something that wasn’t necessarily on offer before0 -
Once again, you know that the T&C Group didn’t stop those appearances… you’d have to ask the club that one!Henry Irving said:Did NJ ban director appearances as well?
Or is that just an excuse you're hiding behind?
And if NJ has banned player appearances why did your T&C group say groups could have players as guests but only at the Valley or Sparrows Lane?
If NJ has banned player appearances then why was there a club organised meeting with players during last season?
If NJ has banned player appearances then how can CAST or anyone request player appearances?
You say I'm lying but your contradict yourself immediately.
Maybe if you would share the protocol you wrote with supporter groups and even the other T&C members there would be some clarity but despite being asked numerous times you have not done so.
All groups such as East Kent and Bromley want is a couple of current players and maybe a manager or director to attend our meetings in East Kent or Bromley. Instead fans had to travel from Ashford for a 36 min Q&A where they couldn't ask any questions.
It worked well for years, fan lead fan engagement but that was too simple, not totally controlled so everything had to be ripped up to replace it with something far worse.Would like to see where the club have said that T&C Group have blocked directors appearances. Again you’d have to ask the club why their employees haven’t been forthcoming to those events…
To be brutally honest, the club made it clear that Player Appearances were off the cards and wouldn’t happen- players not wanting to travel on a weeknight to events, as well as players being uncomfortable on their own & in/around drinkers being some reasons.
It was the T&C Group and AB that fought hard to have some form of Player Appearances/events included, and what currently is on offer is what the club compromised with.
Groups being able to request either online appearances, or in person meets at The Valley/Sparrows Lane is/was on the list of benefits when this was going through the motions, I presume it’s still the case?
Unfortunately I think your gripe and blame is misplaced, and shouldn’t be at the T&C Group/AB0 -
I am generally ambivalent about the ‘groupie’ events, though sometimes participate.
The two best ones I have experienced were both organised by the supporters trust.
One was the one with Steve Gallen at the pub in Charlton Village, the other was the recent one with the ‘new’ academy management which was on the computer.0 -
Appears gone are the days where we used to pick up Keith Peacock from his home in Barnehurst and drive him up to a City Addicks meet or I'd bump into Martin Simons in the allotments near Vicarage Road and similarly invite him to City Addicks the following week etc etc. Shame.7
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This is all old news. It is complete nonsense to say that players do not want to come out to meet supporters. It has been happening for over30 years without problems, so please don't make things up. Sadly. there are always one or two first team players who are long term injured and who would happily make a personal appearance at a supporters event. Feeling uncomfortable around drinkers is presumably something that you have dreamed up to support your argument because it has no basis in truth.sammy391 said:
Once again, you know that the T&C Group didn’t stop those appearances… you’d have to ask the club that one!Henry Irving said:Did NJ ban director appearances as well?
Or is that just an excuse you're hiding behind?
And if NJ has banned player appearances why did your T&C group say groups could have players as guests but only at the Valley or Sparrows Lane?
If NJ has banned player appearances then why was there a club organised meeting with players during last season?
If NJ has banned player appearances then how can CAST or anyone request player appearances?
You say I'm lying but your contradict yourself immediately.
Maybe if you would share the protocol you wrote with supporter groups and even the other T&C members there would be some clarity but despite being asked numerous times you have not done so.
All groups such as East Kent and Bromley want is a couple of current players and maybe a manager or director to attend our meetings in East Kent or Bromley. Instead fans had to travel from Ashford for a 36 min Q&A where they couldn't ask any questions.
It worked well for years, fan lead fan engagement but that was too simple, not totally controlled so everything had to be ripped up to replace it with something far worse.Would like to see where the club have said that T&C Group have blocked directors appearances. Again you’d have to ask the club why their employees haven’t been forthcoming to those events…
To be brutally honest, the club made it clear that Player Appearances were off the cards and wouldn’t happen- players not wanting to travel on a weeknight to events, as well as players being uncomfortable on their own & in/around drinkers being some reasons.
It was the T&C Group and AB that fought hard to have some form of Player Appearances/events included, and what currently is on offer is what the club compromised with.
Groups being able to request either online appearances, or in person meets at The Valley/Sparrows Lane is/was on the list of benefits when this was going through the motions, I presume it’s still the case?
Unfortunately I think your gripe and blame is misplaced, and shouldn’t be at the T&C Group/AB
I thought that the club wanted to add to the number of supporters groups, and I agree that the suggested arrangement will work for those small groups in faraway places like Scotland or Germany. However, they will kill off the bigger, more established groups who want to meet guests in person. The Q & A at the Valley last season was a bad joke and if this situation is allowed to continue, the big groups like Bromley Addicks and East Kent will cease to exist. Maybe the club do not care about that, but they will also stop new groups from being formed. All very negative and very sad.
Not your fault, I agree, but please don't think that the T&C group farce achieved anything positive for supporters because it didn't.6 -
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Without wishing to jump in too much you can’t really say “something that came from it will benefit some fans” and “the t&c group didn’t achieve anything for fans”. It may not have achieved something for you but it has achieved something good for CFIS, German Addicks etc. Now that might not balance out the negatives you see but it has achieved something0
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I definitely don’t know as much about this topic as others but it does appear that there’s lots of biases being shown because it does/doesn’t work for their specific subsection of fans0
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Yes, I suppose so, but forgive me if I am wrong, but were not online Zoom meetings available to the overseas groups in Thomas Sandgaard's time? What new benefits are they now getting?fenaddick said:Without wishing to jump in too much you can’t really say “something that came from it will benefit some fans” and “the t&c group didn’t achieve anything for fans”. It may not have achieved something for you but it has achieved something good for CFIS, German Addicks etc. Now that might not balance out the negatives you see but it has achieved something2 -
I’m not part of one of those groups so unsure!killerjerrylee said:
Yes, I suppose so, but forgive me if I am wrong, but were not online Zoom meetings available to the overseas groups in Thomas Sandgaard's time? What new benefits are they now getting?fenaddick said:Without wishing to jump in too much you can’t really say “something that came from it will benefit some fans” and “the t&c group didn’t achieve anything for fans”. It may not have achieved something for you but it has achieved something good for CFIS, German Addicks etc. Now that might not balance out the negatives you see but it has achieved something
I just find it sad that fans volunteered their time to do something and are getting criticism when they ultimate decision makers (the club) aren’t getting the same level of criticism. Ultimately those fans who volunteered their time wanted to do something good, even if the result doesn’t please everyone0 -
killerjerrylee said:
Yes, I suppose so, but forgive me if I am wrong, but were not online Zoom meetings available to the overseas groups in Thomas Sandgaard's time? What new benefits are they now getting?fenaddick said:Without wishing to jump in too much you can’t really say “something that came from it will benefit some fans” and “the t&c group didn’t achieve anything for fans”. It may not have achieved something for you but it has achieved something good for CFIS, German Addicks etc. Now that might not balance out the negatives you see but it has achieved somethingThe benefits they may or may not be getting, along with all the other fan groups, wasn't decided by a T&C group or the Stakeholder Advisory Board (note the word Advisory - they make no decisions binding the club) - it was decided by the football club board, no more, no less. Player appearances in person? That was decided by one man, and I'll give you three guesses as to who that is!Fan groups bickering and willy waving about what they believe other fans may or may not have or should have done. Only at Charlton.
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It is the club who are the sole cause of this situation and nobody is suggesting otherwise. However, it is very annoying when a member of the Advisory Board comes out and supports their actions. I was one of only two supporters who attended both the T & C Meetings, and know exactly what was said and promised to us .fenaddick said:
I’m not part of one of those groups so unsure!killerjerrylee said:
Yes, I suppose so, but forgive me if I am wrong, but were not online Zoom meetings available to the overseas groups in Thomas Sandgaard's time? What new benefits are they now getting?fenaddick said:Without wishing to jump in too much you can’t really say “something that came from it will benefit some fans” and “the t&c group didn’t achieve anything for fans”. It may not have achieved something for you but it has achieved something good for CFIS, German Addicks etc. Now that might not balance out the negatives you see but it has achieved something
I just find it sad that fans volunteered their time to do something and are getting criticism when they ultimate decision makers (the club) aren’t getting the same level of criticism. Ultimately those fans who volunteered their time wanted to do something good, even if the result doesn’t please everyone4 -
Surprise, surprise; long running and successful group don't like or agree with unneccesary changes made that limit, not enhance, fan engagement.fenaddick said:I definitely don’t know as much about this topic as others but it does appear that there’s lots of biases being shown because it does/doesn’t work for their specific subsection of fans
Bromley Addicks have been invited to a club run event with players in September. It sounds really fun and something most fans would enjoy. We've got three places, we have over 300 members. If your not a member of an official fan group, tough, you can't go at all.
But fan engagement.
Meanwhile Greg Docherty, who lives in Bromley can't be trusted to come to a Bromley Addicks meeting in case we kidnap him or, heavens forbid, he sees a fan drinking alcohol, something banned in his native country, I believe.
The club view is, and I quote "In terms of player appearances, it is a club policy that no players will attend external supporter groups events."
People are saying this is all down to Jones but I'd love to actually ask him if he knows the extent of the ban being instituted in his name, especially as he attended a fan run event himself last summer in the museum.4 -
Back in 2000 some players complained /refused about going out to supporter events and visiting youth groups / schools etc.
Curbs and Peacocks response as they had agreed the player visits was to have it put into players contracts that they had to attend these events.
We even had players & directors visiting West Country casc branch.I personally don’t agree with this new recent format of q&a at the valley for only supporters of registered supporters groups. How does this encourage new supporters.3 -
In my opinion the days of players going out to supporters groups have long gone. Online meetings are the only I would say you would get a player which for the likes of East Kent and Bromley (The only 2 current groups who have face to face meetings) is no good and would only leave them with directors, certain coaching staff.SE9toDA2 said:Back in 2000 some players complained /refused about going out to supporter events and visiting youth groups / schools etc.
Curbs and Peacocks response as they had agreed the player visits was to have it put into players contracts that they had to attend these events.
We even had players & directors visiting West Country casc branch.I personally don’t agree with this new recent format of q&a at the valley for only supporters of registered supporters groups. How does this encourage new supporters.The ex players association may be rather busy with requests from now.
The Task and Complete group which was set up are not at fault here. I’m afraid it’s another tick box exercise set up by the club so they can say they are getting fans involved, but they will do what they want regardless.2 -
Forgive my ignorance, who are the T&C and AB groups ?0
