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Climate Emergency
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Both would be great. There needs to be both national global structural policies and also individual action that steers the structural change.MuttleyCAFC said:
This is where I tend to agree with Chippy. If everybody did maybe, but they won't. You need global policies and where we can have an effect is to vote for those that try to do something. But this applies globally. What is perverse is there seems an anti enviroment message that some are getting behind.swordfish said:
There's loads individuals can do on their own. And if enough people take personal responsibility, collectively it will make a difference and drive the policy changes required at macro level.MuttleyCAFC said:The problem is that individuals can't do anything on their own. There needs to be a global consensus and global policies. Chippy is self rightously slagging everybody off but at least some of us don't support those in power who deny the problem. I think it is probably too late now but you always need those with the power to act to make the changes. It is like somebody like Gary Lineker saying he wants to pay higher taxes, and the Chppy's of this World say, you pay it which of course has no effect and his point is missed. Sorry Chippy, don't mean to pick on you but you seem to be picking on everybody else on this subject. On the subject of Lineker, so many people seem to hate somebody who is a very decent person. What is all that about?0 -
bobmunro said:TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.Yes there was a medieval warming period (regional, not global), followed by a min ice age - but the temperature fluctuations were relatively small compared to the exponential increases in the last 200 years. Yes there will be many factors - global population growth, cyclical weather patterns (but we are seeing a cyclical change that is faster and bigger than anything in the last 10,000 years), intensive crop and livestock farming to feed that growing population, and burning fossil fuels.As I said earlier, we can argue about the causes and whether or not the wit of man can slow or reverse that rapid rise, but it is an irrefutable fact that the earth is warming at an unprecedented rate.
Daily temperatures didn’t start being recorded until 1770 so 256 years ago, the 200 years you claim is basically since records began and looking at evidence it hasn’t gone up much. The whole theory that gets thrown around “since records began” is only a tiny documented percentage of human civilisation, much of it is undocumented so they may have even been more rises in temperatures than the medieval warming period.bobmunro said:TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.Yes there was a medieval warming period (regional, not global), followed by a min ice age - but the temperature fluctuations were relatively small compared to the exponential increases in the last 200 years. Yes there will be many factors - global population growth, cyclical weather patterns (but we are seeing a cyclical change that is faster and bigger than anything in the last 10,000 years), intensive crop and livestock farming to feed that growing population, and burning fossil fuels.As I said earlier, we can argue about the causes and whether or not the wit of man can slow or reverse that rapid rise, but it is an irrefutable fact that the earth is warming at an unprecedented rate.5 -
MuttleyCAFC said:
This is where I tend to agree with Chippy. If everybody did maybe, but they won't. You need global policies and where we can have an effect is to vote for those that try to do something. But this applies globally. What is perverse is there seems an anti enviroment message that some are getting behind.swordfish said:
There's loads individuals can do on their own. And if enough people take personal responsibility, collectively it will make a difference and drive the policy changes required at macro level.MuttleyCAFC said:The problem is that individuals can't do anything on their own. There needs to be a global consensus and global policies. Chippy is self rightously slagging everybody off but at least some of us don't support those in power who deny the problem. I think it is probably too late now but you always need those with the power to act to make the changes. It is like somebody like Gary Lineker saying he wants to pay higher taxes, and the Chppy's of this World say, you pay it which of course has no effect and his point is missed. Sorry Chippy, don't mean to pick on you but you seem to be picking on everybody else on this subject. On the subject of Lineker, so many people seem to hate somebody who is a very decent person. What is all that about?
People don't tend to vote for parties that promise to impose restrictions on how they live their lives. If you think that's our best bet, then I think we're screwed, given human nature.
I choose to take individual responsibility. If my neigbour doesn't give a shit about their carbon footprint, it has nothing to with me choosing to lower mine? I do it because I understand the science and think it's necessary.
Taking account of what others are doing to make decisions is the same logic as saying, look at the high Co2 emissions in China, no point in us doing anything that will inconvenience us here.
We all know that not being proactive won't help mitigate the consequences of climate change and slow it's rate of acceleration. Someone has to lead, but it's much easier not to.
1 -
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).3 -
Our planet has warmed far faster in the last 100 years than it ever has in similar periods in the last 10,000 years. I think that covers the "medieval warming period".TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.3 -
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.12 -
There are other ways of determining temperatures, going back 10,000 years. It's called science.TD_Addick said:bobmunro said:TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.Yes there was a medieval warming period (regional, not global), followed by a min ice age - but the temperature fluctuations were relatively small compared to the exponential increases in the last 200 years. Yes there will be many factors - global population growth, cyclical weather patterns (but we are seeing a cyclical change that is faster and bigger than anything in the last 10,000 years), intensive crop and livestock farming to feed that growing population, and burning fossil fuels.As I said earlier, we can argue about the causes and whether or not the wit of man can slow or reverse that rapid rise, but it is an irrefutable fact that the earth is warming at an unprecedented rate.
Daily temperatures didn’t start being recorded until 1770 so 256 years ago, the 200 years you claim is basically since records began and looking at evidence it hasn’t gone up much. The whole theory that gets thrown around “since records began” is only a tiny documented percentage of human civilisation, much of it is undocumented so they may have even been more rises in temperatures than the medieval warming period.bobmunro said:TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.Yes there was a medieval warming period (regional, not global), followed by a min ice age - but the temperature fluctuations were relatively small compared to the exponential increases in the last 200 years. Yes there will be many factors - global population growth, cyclical weather patterns (but we are seeing a cyclical change that is faster and bigger than anything in the last 10,000 years), intensive crop and livestock farming to feed that growing population, and burning fossil fuels.As I said earlier, we can argue about the causes and whether or not the wit of man can slow or reverse that rapid rise, but it is an irrefutable fact that the earth is warming at an unprecedented rate.3 -
https://food.blog.gov.uk/2024/12/05/bovaer-cow-feed-additive-explained/TD_Addick said:
Climate-sceptic loon? Climate change fear mongers think cow farts warm the planet, you sound like the loon.Chizz said:
Great picture sequence of yesterday's eclipse. Shared only to upset the climate-sceptic loons who will be apoplectic at the bottom right image.1 -
By this reasoning we'd have to assume that Henry VIII was swanning about in constant 35° heat in this get up, and somehow not dying immediately?TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
Also, what about the ice age, if we apparently didn't know the temperature before 1770, is that all bollocks as well?3 -
Sponsored links:
-
Daily temperatures and yearly temperatures have been thrown about by the climate fear mongers as you keep saying “in the last 200 years”as evidence of global warming, this type of information was not taken before that. The ice cores and tree rings you mention is evidence for long periods and dramatic changes not short period recordings.Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.Hope this helps.2 -
Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.It won't.So called expert, know all scientists - what would they know? Pah!4 -
Which sounds like a great statement until you apply some thought to it and stratch a little below the surface. And then suddenly you see it doesn't hold up.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
As you say records didn't exist 12,000 years ago. Luckily scientists have been studying this for years and refining methods and can come up with amazing ways to proxy measure temperature from the past. Including but not limited to:
- ice cores
- pollen records
- Ocean Sediments and Foraminifera
- Tree rings
These methods are then repeated thousands and thousands of times in thousands of locations to form data.
The next step is the really cool bit if you're a data nerd like me and its what makes the science robust. They take the data from every single test of every single method in every single place its done. And more tests are constantly being done so more data is fed in which is constantly refining the model making it stronger and stronger. Advanced statistical methods are used to combine all the proxies from all regions into multi-proxy global reconstructions.So when scientists quote Holocene temperatures, they're not relying on one method or one location. They're reporting the central estimate from hundreds of independent lines of evidence that, across different archives, different chemistries, and different continents, tell the same story.I suggest you read about The Temperature 12k project - the most comprehensive Holocene reconstruction, which applied five completely different statistical methods to the same dataset of globally distributed proxy records. The results were then aggregated into an ensemble of plausible temperature histories with a realistic range of uncertainties. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-020-0530-7
If you don't believe any temperature records before 1770 why are you so sure there was a Medieval warm period? That's only known because of these methods!
Here are some places you can read about the methods.
https://interactive.carbonbrief.org/how-proxy-data-reveals-climate-of-earths-distant-past/index.html
https://biologyinsights.com/what-is-a-climate-proxy-and-how-do-they-work/
https://www.whoi.edu/ocean-learning-hub/ocean-topics/climate-weather/paleoclimatology/
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/what-are-proxy-data6 -
cantersaddick said:
Which sounds like a great statement until you apply some thought to it and stratch a little below the surface. And then suddenly you see it doesn't hold up.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
As you say records didn't exist 12,000 years ago. Luckily scientists have been studying this for years and refining methods and can come up with amazing ways to proxy measure temperature from the past. Including but not limited to:
- ice cores
- pollen records
- Ocean Sediments and Foraminifera
- Tree rings
These methods are then repeated thousands and thousands of times in thousands of locations to form data.
The next step is the really cool bit if you're a data nerd like me and its what makes the science robust. They take the data from every single test of every single method in every single place its done. And more tests are constantly being done so more data is fed in which is constantly refining the model making it stronger and stronger. Advanced statistical methods are used to combine all the proxies from all regions into multi-proxy global reconstructions.So when scientists quote Holocene temperatures, they're not relying on one method or one location. They're reporting the central estimate from hundreds of independent lines of evidence that, across different archives, different chemistries, and different continents, tell the same story.I suggest you read about The Temperature 12k project - the most comprehensive Holocene reconstruction, which applied five completely different statistical methods to the same dataset of globally distributed proxy records. The results were then aggregated into an ensemble of plausible temperature histories with a realistic range of uncertainties. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-020-0530-7
If you don't believe any temperature records before 1770 why are you so sure there was a Medieval warm period? That's only known because of these methods!
Here are some places you can read about the methods.
https://interactive.carbonbrief.org/how-proxy-data-reveals-climate-of-earths-distant-past/index.html
https://biologyinsights.com/what-is-a-climate-proxy-and-how-do-they-work/
https://www.whoi.edu/ocean-learning-hub/ocean-topics/climate-weather/paleoclimatology/
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/what-are-proxy-data
But he believes that there was a medieval warming period which took place before temperature records started in 1770. Go figure!6 -
Because he grates on me.MuttleyCAFC said:On the subject of Lineker, so many people seem to hate somebody who is a very decent person. What is all that about?I grew up with and had great friends who weren’t white. He is white, yet still wants his 15 mins of look at me fame.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/gary-lineker-racist-abuse-darkish-skin-b1007640.html1 -
Scientists like Anthony Fauci? What’s happening to him right now?bobmunro said:Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.It won't.So called expert, know all scientists - what would they know? Pah!2 -
It seems the more information you're given, the less you understandTD_Addick said:
Daily temperatures and yearly temperatures have been thrown about by the climate fear mongers as you keep saying “in the last 200 years”as evidence of global warming, this type of information was not taken before that. The ice cores and tree rings you mention is evidence for long periods and dramatic changes not short period recordings.Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.Hope this helps.8 -
.0
-
Stig said:
He hasn't said you can't post your opinions. He clearly doesn't value them though, and has reminded us that it's a waste of time engaging. That's a little bit different.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.
Does it on almost every non football thread mate that I post on its getting tedious, and childish and pathetic. Like having my own personal stalker. He is not obliged to read them.
Others are adult enough to either engage or not too . They don't need his dirty filthy mouth and filthy language to tell them otherwise. I am not the only poster he has done it too.
Imagine if we all thought and saw the same.... Boring old world wouldn't it. And a beautiful day again today.
I will leave it there.1 -
@TD_Addick
Roman wine in England was tiny, low‑quality, and culturally driven. The Roman Warm Period was mild and regional, not comparable to today’s rapid global warming. Modern English wine production is far larger because the UK climate is now significantly warmer. Climate science relies on direct measurements, not anecdotes about ancient agriculture.
1 -
Sponsored links:
-
You mentioned him yesterday and I responded to that post.TD_Addick said:
Scientists like Anthony Fauci? What’s happening to him right now?bobmunro said:Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.It won't.So called expert, know all scientists - what would they know? Pah!
Dr Fauci is being very unfairly vilified by the Trump administration, none of whom have the education and training that Dr Fauci has.
Science is being systematically shut down in the USA because it doesn't suit Trump's narrative.8 -
WowME14addick said:
You mentioned him yesterday and I responded to that post.TD_Addick said:
Scientists like Anthony Fauci? What’s happening to him right now?bobmunro said:Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.It won't.So called expert, know all scientists - what would they know? Pah!
Dr Fauci is being very unfairly vilified by the Trump administration, none of whom have the education and training that Dr Fauci has.
Science is being systematically shut down in the USA because it doesn't suit Trump's narrative.1 -
Amazing way to demonstrate that nuance we were just talking about. Top stuff.TD_Addick said:
Climate-sceptic loon? Climate change fear mongers think cow farts warm the planet, you sound like the loon.Chizz said:
Great picture sequence of yesterday's eclipse. Shared only to upset the climate-sceptic loons who will be apoplectic at the bottom right image.0 -
One of the problems is you can always find a scientist who says what you want to hear. But if there are thousands of scientists that don't but a handful that do, surely you are applying wishful thinking statistically.4
-
Do you actually read my posts? Let me slow it down for you, daily yes daily temperatures did not begin until the 1700s. Periods before that have been documented yes but in different ways.sam3110 said:
By this reasoning we'd have to assume that Henry VIII was swanning about in constant 35° heat in this get up, and somehow not dying immediately?TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
Also, what about the ice age, if we apparently didn't know the temperature before 1770, is that all bollocks as well?See you on the holidays thread wizzing off all over the gaff like your buddy’s. Again the worst type moan and cry about the world warming but it’s ok as long as it suits you right?1 -
The World warming doesn't suit anybody.2
-
Don't really wanna go down this ridiculous sidetrack bit I will say this.TD_Addick said:
Scientists like Anthony Fauci? What’s happening to him right now?bobmunro said:Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.It won't.So called expert, know all scientists - what would they know? Pah!
Authoritarian leaders declaring scientists enemies of the state has always gone down well in history and never preceeded pretty terrible events.
No matter your views on how he handled the pandemic surely you can at least recognise that?2 -
Not Fauci related, but out of interest, what do you think we, the human race, should be doing to deal with the problems being experienced as a result of global warming?TD_Addick said:
Scientists like Anthony Fauci? What’s happening to him right now?bobmunro said:Chizz said:
You should be congratulated for admitting, this deep into the thread, that you don't understand how climate measurements are taken. It's an astonishing level of ignorance, and may well have been difficult to admit to.TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
1770 is roughly when widespread instrumental weather records begin; it isn't when our knowledge of climate begins.
We can reconstruct climate much further back using natural “proxy” records such as ice cores, tree rings, lake and ocean sediments, corals and cave deposits. These contain chemical, biological and physical evidence of past temperature, rainfall and atmospheric conditions.
They can be dated and cross-checked against one another, allowing scientists to reconstruct climatic fluctuations over thousands of years - including the last 12,000 years.
I genuinely hope this helps.It won't.So called expert, know all scientists - what would they know? Pah!1 -
And where have I said as long as it suits me? I carbon offset my flights and hotels, I take trips abroad few and far between otherwise and use public transport unless absolutely necessary to use a car, and then it's a hybrid. I sign up to renewable source energy plans, I eat meat 3 times a week and veggie other than that and recycle as much as possible.TD_Addick said:
Do you actually read my posts? Let me slow it down for you, daily yes daily temperatures did not begin until the 1700s. Periods before that have been documented yes but in different ways.sam3110 said:
By this reasoning we'd have to assume that Henry VIII was swanning about in constant 35° heat in this get up, and somehow not dying immediately?TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
Also, what about the ice age, if we apparently didn't know the temperature before 1770, is that all bollocks as well?See you on the holidays thread wizzing off all over the gaff like your buddy’s. Again the worst type moan and cry about the world warming but it’s ok as long as it suits you right?
I tend not to fully read your posts no, because my brain cannot comprehend that amount of drivel in one go5 -
This one has been done to death barely a page ago. I refer the dishonourable gentlemen to my previous answer on why this particular spurious argument is disengenuous.TD_Addick said:
Do you actually read my posts? Let me slow it down for you, daily yes daily temperatures did not begin until the 1700s. Periods before that have been documented yes but in different ways.sam3110 said:
By this reasoning we'd have to assume that Henry VIII was swanning about in constant 35° heat in this get up, and somehow not dying immediately?TD_Addick said:
Daily records began in 1770 not sure how you know about the last 12,000 years.cantersaddick said:
Ding ding ding ding! That's a full house on the climate denier spurious arguments!!TD_Addick said:
Maybe the planet is warming but it also did in the medieval warming period for a few hundred years and that was caused by many factors not burning fossil fuels. If you think weather/climate is just a straight line then you're wrong. It changes and has changed throughout history for many different reasons.bobmunro said:jimmymelrose said:TD_Addick said:
Thinking differently does not necessarily mean thinking straight.
Lol how pathetic honestly, because me and Chippy said something similar its suspicious, great work Sherlock you've cracked the case. Maybe we both share the same viewpoint that the Climate Change enthusiasts are nothing but aggressive angry people who throw insults at people for people thinking differently. I've been called every name under the sun for saying it's hot outside because it's the summer (shocking isn't it hot in the summer you wouldn't think that).Chizz said:
It's good to have different viewpoints on a thread like this. Everyone comes at this subject from their own perspective and/or armed with evidence from the worlds of science, government and business. It's a great sharing of knowledge.
In fact, no two posters share exactly the same thought process and deliver their messages in identical styles. Because, if two people did, that would look very suspicious indeed.Chippycafc said:
People are entitled to their opinions its called a forum.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.
Perhaps you can list what we shall talk about and which side of the fence to sit on. And your contribution on any thread 90% of the time is always to abuse others.TD_Addick said:
It's called discussion mate, what people do on forums.You're entitled to your opinions and people are allowed to think differently if you don't like don't read the thread simple as that, should be easy to figure out for someone with superior intelligence like yourself. Good Lord.Leroy Ambrose said:Why do you all fall for it? Every time? Every single fucking time?
Good Lord.How about: ' Shit, it’s 45 degrees outside, the trees are burning, we have to evacuate, but it’s summer’Try saying that to the people around Bordeaux. If it hasn’t sunk in yet, it will as it moves northwards and if you’ve got another 50 years to live.100%Nobody is using the argument that one hot summer or an extended few weeks of high temperatures is cast iron proof of global warming/climate change. But maybe there is evidence with 200 plus years of exponentially accelerating average global temperature, a similar accelerating rise in average ocean temperatures, and the melting of the ice caps - i.e.Earth's polar ice sheets and caps are losing massive amounts of mass rather than completely disappearing. Greenland loses about 266 billion tons of ice per year and Antarctica loses roughly 135 billion tons per year. Meanwhile, Arctic September sea ice area has halved since satellite records began in 1979We can discuss and argue about the causes and whether or not we have time and the ability to do something about it, but denying the earth is warming is just idiocy.
The MWP saw global temperatures rise only around 0.2 to 0.4°C above previous centuries, and the warming was largely concentrated in the North Atlantic — Europe and Greenland — not the entire globe. Climate proxy records show peak warmth occurred at different times in different regions, confirming it was not a globally uniform event.Now compare that to today. The top eleven hottest years ever recorded have all occurred in the last eleven years. For the first time in recorded history, the annual global average temperature exceeded 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels. That's not a regional quirk. That's the whole planet. If you look separately at the summer temperature changes for the Northern and Southern hemispheres you'll see that warming actually exceeds 3.5°C its just that winters are getting more extreme in places too.
https://www.climatecentral.org/climate-matters/2024-global-and-us-review
https://sigmaearth.com/medieval-warm-period-vs-modern-global-warming/
And the climate had been stable for 12,000 years before the last 150years with movements of less than half a degree above or below the mean (so a total 1 degree variation window).
Also, what about the ice age, if we apparently didn't know the temperature before 1770, is that all bollocks as well?See you on the holidays thread wizzing off all over the gaff like your buddy’s. Again the worst type moan and cry about the world warming but it’s ok as long as it suits you right?It's a systemic issue anyone who tries to equate a systemic issue with individual actions is being disengenuous or lacks the critical thought to know that he is being used by the disengenuous.
Thats not to say individual actions dont matter - I've posted a few times on here about the power of lots of people taking small individual actions in order to influence governments and businesses. This book is great for it https://earthbound.report/2019/08/05/sos-what-you-can-do-to-reduce-climate-change-by-seth-wynes/
But the issue is systemic that is to say its an issue of systems. Individual actions only go so far when you have economic and governmental systems set up as they are then the emissions are done by large corporations and governments over which people have very little influence. And people have to function as part of a system in order to live. To suggest otherwise is idiotic.
The entire concept of the "personal carbon footprint" was literally invented by BP's PR agency in the early 2000s specifically to make you blame yourself instead of them. It's one of the most successful propaganda campaigns in history, and you are out here doing their marketing for free. Meanwhile, a single billionaire's superyacht emits more CO₂ in a year than 40 average households, private jet owners account for a wildly disproportionate share of aviation emissions, and the top 1% emit roughly twice as much carbon as the bottom 50% of humanity combined. But sure, let's talk about my commute. The thing is — and this is the part fossil fuel companies are desperately hoping you miss — we live in a system. Roads exist because governments built them for cars. Trains don't go everywhere. Electric vehicles cost more than many people earn in a year. You don't get to opt out of a fossil-fuel-dependent infrastructure just by having strong opinions about it. Asking individuals to fix a systemic crisis through personal choice is like blaming people for getting wet because they don't build their own umbrellas. The problem isn't your carbon footprint. The problem is who designed the roof.
But of course, to those who lack any amount of critical thought, its "the green lobby" that are the problem. Which witht he slightest bit of scrutiny falls apart, the fossil fuel lobby is hugely more significant, funded by trillions in global profits and overtly political. It owns significant stakes in most traditional media and also newer forms of media. It has 2 UK TV "news" (legally not news) channels that they fund the massive losses of purely so it spouts the propaganda that you have swallowed and repeat like a good little cuck for the fossil fuel giants. There are companies with valuations into the hundreds of millions whose sole purpose is to lobby governments worldwide in favour of the fossil fuel industry. Governments of all colours have taken huge sums from this lobby with this latest one taking its largest ever amount pre the last election from that lobby. Other parties take even more. But no "the green lobby is too powerful".1
