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Climate Emergency

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  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 34,619
    Been raining in East Sussex for about five hours now and temperature really dropped off. And people say climate change isn’t real 😂😂
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 24,896
    But of course we all know @LargeAddick that climate and weather are 2 different things
  • The guy on the station is taking it pretty badly.
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 1,521
    edited August 19
    TD_Addick said:
    Talk about personal choices, it’s called practice what you preach. Don’t waffle on about climate change every time it goes above 28 degrees and say “we need to change and do more” yet do nothing and go against everything you say. 
    Again no one on this thread since it was revived in the last week or so has told anyone else what they should or shouldn't be doing with their personal choices.

    The conversation has been focused on national and international policy. I don't practice international policy so it's quite hard to "practice what you preach" when you aren't prime minister. 

    So your argument doesn't hold at all. 

    As for the you do nothing claim here is a non-exhaustive list of things I have done and regularly do to effect change in this area. Do let me know what more you do that I can learn from. 

    - don't eat meat
    - walk or use public transport as default
    - donate to climate organisations
    - support and volunteer at campaigns for environmental causes
    - have spent time volunteering at a coral restoration project and a marine conservation programme and continue to volunteer my time in an admin role for that charity
    - give my professional skills pro-bono to a couple of think tanks and pressure groups in this space who have the ability to influence government. 
    - am in the process of installing solar and battery in my home. Have future plans in place for a heat pump.
    - holidayed in the UK or Europe by train. Even Sailed to where I was travelling post Uni.
    - have done renovation works to my house to passivehaus standards - the most environmentally friendly homebuilding standards
    - have changed purchasing and consumption habits initially cutting out fast fashion and amazon and the likes and now much more buying second hand and refurbished wherever possible and using certified B corps where not. Have my phone contract with Ecotalk whose profits all go to rewilding. Use Ecosia as my search engine who do the same. Am on a green energy tariff.
    - have rescued and restored and refinished multiple pieces of furniture that had been thrown away for myself and family and friends to give quality pieces a new lease of life. 
    - religiously recycle
    - write to my MP regularly
    - have installed a large rainwater harvesting system with solar pumps and soaker hoses for my garden (posted about this a couple pages ago).
    - composting 
    - growing my own vegetables

    And quite a lot more that I have missed. Really excited to hear about all you do and see how I can add some to my list. 

    But once again. The problem is systemic. People do what they can within the system but unless the system changes we won't get real change.
    I agree with you its such a small minded, faux intellectual view TD preaches thats some how making choices that allows you to exist in the 21st century makes one a hypocrite, where can one possibly draw the line? We all disagree with Child exploitation I assume however by @TD_Addick logic we should all therfore renounce any use of the internet as thats a main contributor or perhaps we should stop using knives as we all agree knifecrime is a cancer to society?

    Of course not but this does shows when some of the undesirable cretins of society know they can no longer debate in good faith they try to subvert the debate by attacking underlying values. Its not big and its not clever.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,912
    Andrew Neil used to promote interesting ideas about HIV and AIDS.  He said "heterosexual AIDS" was a myth; HIV was not the cause of AIDS; HIV tests were invalid; AIDS wasn't spreading significantly in Africa; heterosexual AIDS was essentially a myth; AZT was dangerous; and the medical establishment had exaggerated the epidemic. 

    In 2014, he said that Murdoch would support Scottish independence.  He didn't.  

    He said that when he met Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago in 2015, he told him he had no chance of winning the presidency. 

    Regarding Brexit, at the National Manufacturing Conference in February 2019, with Brexit only weeks away, Neil made an optimistic prediction that a deal would be achieved, followed by an economic bounce as businesses gained confidence and resumed investment. What happened? The UK did leave the EU in January 2020, but: the Withdrawal Agreement was followed by a lengthy transition; the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement wasn't concluded until December 2020; business investment did not subsequently produce the kind of obvious Brexit-related “bounce” Neil was anticipating. To put it mildly. 

    In March 2020, he initially questioned whether international comparisons of COVID-19 death rates were valid because countries might be recording deaths differently. He then investigated the methodology and explicitly reversed himself: "I have investigated further how Germany records Covid-19 deaths and concluded its methodology does NOT explain lower level of German Covid-19 fatalities". 

    With that kind of record, it would be interesting to see what he has had to say about climate change. 
    • He questioned the fact that 97% of scientists knew and believed the science shows that climate change is exacerbated by man (wrong)
    • He specifically claimed that 35% of abstracts had been misclassified (wrong); 
    • He said that "More renewable energy will not mean cheaper bills" and described it as a “Great Green Lie” that renewables mean cheaper energy. (The Grantham Institute pointed to the UK government's own electricity-market analysis, which said that renewables are generally cheaper than fossil-fuel generation and that increasing renewable generation is expected to reduce average wholesale prices); 
    • He claimed Labour's offshore-wind auction was offering investors a £44/MWh strike price in 2014 prices (he wrote that the strike price was quoted in 2014 prices. It was actually quoted in 2012 prices); 
    • He claimed in an article there was “still no rush of fresh investment” even though the relevant auction window had not yet opened when he wrote the article; 
    • He wrote that approximately 60,000 oil-and-gas jobs could disappear while renewables would create only 80,000 jobs. (The underlying Robert Gordon University research actually projected that the offshore-renewables workforce could reach approximately 138,000 by 2030, while the oil-and-gas workforce could fall to about 60,000); he claimed that Ed Miliband might have cancelled oil and gas licences that were already progressing through the approval process. The chair of the North Sea Transition Authority subsequently described the underlying allegation as "a complete fabrication". Neil then repeated the claim; 
    • He claimed that the Climate Change Committee admitted that fossil fuels would provide approximately 25% of UK energy in 2050. The CCC had not actually published such an estimate; he wrote that Denmark had half its electricity generated by wind and that it had "the most costly [electricity] in Europe". IPSO accepted that this particular claim was wrong. Eurostat data showed that Denmark's electricity price was lower than prices in Belgium, Germany and Ireland at the relevant time, and the Daily Mail subsequently issued a correction

    So, it's interesting to see what his prediction was this Spring about the Summer ahead... 


  • Redskin
    Redskin Posts: 3,214

  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 10,277
    Chizz said:
    Andrew Neil used to promote interesting ideas about HIV and AIDS.  He said "heterosexual AIDS" was a myth; HIV was not the cause of AIDS; HIV tests were invalid; AIDS wasn't spreading significantly in Africa; heterosexual AIDS was essentially a myth; AZT was dangerous; and the medical establishment had exaggerated the epidemic. 

    In 2014, he said that Murdoch would support Scottish independence.  He didn't.  

    He said that when he met Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago in 2015, he told him he had no chance of winning the presidency. 

    Regarding Brexit, at the National Manufacturing Conference in February 2019, with Brexit only weeks away, Neil made an optimistic prediction that a deal would be achieved, followed by an economic bounce as businesses gained confidence and resumed investment. What happened? The UK did leave the EU in January 2020, but: the Withdrawal Agreement was followed by a lengthy transition; the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement wasn't concluded until December 2020; business investment did not subsequently produce the kind of obvious Brexit-related “bounce” Neil was anticipating. To put it mildly. 

    In March 2020, he initially questioned whether international comparisons of COVID-19 death rates were valid because countries might be recording deaths differently. He then investigated the methodology and explicitly reversed himself: "I have investigated further how Germany records Covid-19 deaths and concluded its methodology does NOT explain lower level of German Covid-19 fatalities". 

    With that kind of record, it would be interesting to see what he has had to say about climate change. 
    • He questioned the fact that 97% of scientists knew and believed the science shows that climate change is exacerbated by man (wrong)
    • He specifically claimed that 35% of abstracts had been misclassified (wrong); 
    • He said that "More renewable energy will not mean cheaper bills" and described it as a “Great Green Lie” that renewables mean cheaper energy. (The Grantham Institute pointed to the UK government's own electricity-market analysis, which said that renewables are generally cheaper than fossil-fuel generation and that increasing renewable generation is expected to reduce average wholesale prices); 
    • He claimed Labour's offshore-wind auction was offering investors a £44/MWh strike price in 2014 prices (he wrote that the strike price was quoted in 2014 prices. It was actually quoted in 2012 prices); 
    • He claimed in an article there was “still no rush of fresh investment” even though the relevant auction window had not yet opened when he wrote the article; 
    • He wrote that approximately 60,000 oil-and-gas jobs could disappear while renewables would create only 80,000 jobs. (The underlying Robert Gordon University research actually projected that the offshore-renewables workforce could reach approximately 138,000 by 2030, while the oil-and-gas workforce could fall to about 60,000); he claimed that Ed Miliband might have cancelled oil and gas licences that were already progressing through the approval process. The chair of the North Sea Transition Authority subsequently described the underlying allegation as "a complete fabrication". Neil then repeated the claim; 
    • He claimed that the Climate Change Committee admitted that fossil fuels would provide approximately 25% of UK energy in 2050. The CCC had not actually published such an estimate; he wrote that Denmark had half its electricity generated by wind and that it had "the most costly [electricity] in Europe". IPSO accepted that this particular claim was wrong. Eurostat data showed that Denmark's electricity price was lower than prices in Belgium, Germany and Ireland at the relevant time, and the Daily Mail subsequently issued a correction

    So, it's interesting to see what his prediction was this Spring about the Summer ahead... 


    I often see his posts on X, he's an absolute idiot.
  • R0TW
    R0TW Posts: 2,047
    Think he would tie most of you in knots.
    Done well for himself being an idiot
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,912
    R0TW said:
    Think he would tie most of you in knots.
    Done well for himself being an idiot
    There's certainly a lot of money in being the idiot king 
  • MrWalker
    MrWalker Posts: 4,384
    I'm pleased for you 

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  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 10,277
    The Met Office is warning that El Nino will have a much bigger effect this year and next, because of the extra warmth created by climate change. 

    They are warning that November and December are likely to bring bad storms and that Summer 2027 will be even hotter.

    El Nino is likely to cause severe droughts elsewhere in the world, leading to food shortages. 
  • clive
    clive Posts: 20,814
    The Met Office is warning that El Nino will have a much bigger effect this year and next, because of the extra warmth created by climate change. 

    They are warning that November and December are likely to bring bad storms and that Summer 2027 will be even hotter.

    El Nino is likely to cause severe droughts elsewhere in the world, leading to food shortages. 

    Is climate change making El Niño worse?

    The World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) says there is "no evidence" that climate change increases the frequency or strength of El Niño events.

    However, this is an ongoing area of research and debate for scientists.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/articles/c3ekg93vjz9o

  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 10,277
    clive said:
    The Met Office is warning that El Nino will have a much bigger effect this year and next, because of the extra warmth created by climate change. 

    They are warning that November and December are likely to bring bad storms and that Summer 2027 will be even hotter.

    El Nino is likely to cause severe droughts elsewhere in the world, leading to food shortages. 

    Is climate change making El Niño worse?

    The World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) says there is "no evidence" that climate change increases the frequency or strength of El Niño events.

    However, this is an ongoing area of research and debate for scientists.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/articles/c3ekg93vjz9o

    Taken from the same article:

    'There is no clear evidence that climate change is making El Niño events more likely, but its weather impacts are likely to be more extreme in a warming world'.


  • Chaz Hill
    Chaz Hill Posts: 5,280
    The Met Office is warning that El Nino will have a much bigger effect this year and next, because of the extra warmth created by climate change. 

    They are warning that November and December are likely to bring bad storms and that Summer 2027 will be even hotter.

    El Nino is likely to cause severe droughts elsewhere in the world, leading to food shortages. 
    We are having air conditioning fitted next month (cooling and warming as needed). Certainly seems we have made the right decision judging by the article you mention. Our air con will be powered by our solar panels/battery so electricity costs and environmenal impact should be pretty much negative.
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 10,277
    An ‘unprecedented’ El Niño and its implications for the weather forecast - Met Office

    Professor Stephen Belcher is the Met Office’s Chief of Science and Technology. He said: “This summer we have experienced heat waves across Europe reminding us of the effects of climate change, this large El Niño is a reminder that natural variations in the climate system are also at play, adding to the stresses of climate change.”
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 48,648
    edited August 22
    Well the policy of some is to have a cold beer and ice cream or make better Champagne than the French and do nothing other than walk straight into it. I have no hope for humanity.
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 10,277
    I've seen a lot of social media post blaming re-wilding and the management of nature reserves for the spread of wildfires.

    Working with nature actually helps to mitigate some of the effects of climate change. Using nature to slow down the flow of water in times of flood, and as a store for water in times of drought should be something that is embraced.

    Conservationists are best placed to understand how re-wilding works. This article explains how:

    https://www.countryfile.com/news/drought-has-ravaged-the-uk-but-this-one-nature-site-has-the-solution?utm_id=97757_v0_s00_e0_tv2_a1demo0jsdqw37&fbclid=IwY2xjawT2sVdwZG9mBWV4dG4DYWVtAjEwAGJyaWQRMUxpWGJsVW1ZQ2Fib0M1ZmxzcnRjBmFwcF9pZBAyMjIwMzkxNzg4MjAwODkyAAEeFKCPOslESu7K5gZq0qb3-QxLnIzeFF7pgKqvREHHtSXPyYDHGGc0oWRKvAE_aem_BKJ3IX01GZUs0EhkQ7q2nw
  • Hex
    Hex Posts: 1,990
    edited September 3
    Here's an interesting comparison of the 8 warmest summers including 2026.  The key figure is column 3 - Value which is the mean CET temperature, averaging maximums and minimums, giving a comparison figure representing England as a whole.

    CET is explain by the Met Office, with misinformation rebuttals, here - https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/cet-series

  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,858
    Hex said:
    Here's an interesting comparison of the 8 warmest summers including 2026.  The key figure is column 3 - Value which is the mean CET temperature, averaging maximums and minimums, giving a comparison figure representing England as a whole.

    Absolutely insane. I'm sure someone will be along any minute now though to say it was fine when they was kids - they just had an ice cream and drank out the garden hose, and what was wrong with lead paint anyway we played out after dark and it was all fine and it would do kids some good nowadays to know what suffering is blah blah blah blah 
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 30,121
    A key bit of information there, is that this data set starts in 1659. That's 367 years worth of data. Viewing the chart with this context in mind makes it even more astonishing that four of the eight hottest years have been in the last decade.

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  • Stig said:
    A key bit of information there, is that this data set starts in 1659. That's 367 years worth of data. Viewing the chart with this context in mind makes it even more astonishing that four of the eight hottest years have been in the last decade.
    Let's just pretend it isn't happening - seems to be the stance of a lot if politicians. 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 22,105
    Stig said:
    A key bit of information there, is that this data set starts in 1659. That's 367 years worth of data. Viewing the chart with this context in mind makes it even more astonishing that four of the eight hottest years have been in the last decade.
    Let's just pretend it isn't happening - seems to be the stance of a lot if politicians. 

    The slightly more aware politicians accept it is happening but are fucked if they are going to spend money trying to mitigate it because it will cost votes. "We can't stop it anyway so let's not waste money - and future generations can either pay or suffer when we are sitting in the House of Lords or pushing up the daisies".
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 15,248
    Hex said:
    Here's an interesting comparison of the 8 warmest summers including 2026.  The key figure is column 3 - Value which is the mean CET temperature, averaging maximums and minimums, giving a comparison figure representing England as a whole.

    CET is explain by the Met Office, with misinformation rebuttals, here - https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/cet-series

    It says so much about modern society that you can't just put out information with the data to support it, you now also have to include rebuttals ahead of time because of bad actors who will specifically try and discredit the data for their own purposes. It's horrifying that it's so prevalent now that the response to the response has to be built in
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 30,121
    Hex said:
    Here's an interesting comparison of the 8 warmest summers including 2026.  The key figure is column 3 - Value which is the mean CET temperature, averaging maximums and minimums, giving a comparison figure representing England as a whole.

    CET is explain by the Met Office, with misinformation rebuttals, here - https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/cet-series

    It says so much about modern society that you can't just put out information with the data to support it, you now also have to include rebuttals ahead of time because of bad actors who will specifically try and discredit the data for their own purposes. It's horrifying that it's so prevalent now that the response to the response has to be built in
    Absolutely this. I used to have a very minor part in helping to publish the UK's Trade Statistics. Our statisticians were meticulous in publishing their methodologies as well as commentaries as to how the stats might be interpreted and their limitations. Official press releases always contained copious 'notes to editors' so that third parties writing up their own commentaries had a clear understanding. Never though, did I ever see anything close to publishing "misinformation you may encounter". It just never happened. The fact that the Met Office feel the need to do this is quite shocking and should set everyone's alarm bell's ringing.
  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,686
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm274p8m88lo.app   

    As I said flying is going to get a whole lot bumpier 
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 30,121
    We're rapidly approaching the arse end of September. I'm on Canvey seafront. I've got my factor 50 on, but it still feels like I'm burning. Lovely weather for July, but now? It's just so wrong.
  • R0TW
    R0TW Posts: 2,047
    Rather exaggerated wouldn’t you agree?
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,712
    edited September 23
    About 10 years ago I was sat on West wittering beach and it was the first week in October. 

    The previous week we had a 5 day break in Norfolk and it was about 24 everyday. 
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 10,277
    Stig said:
    We're rapidly approaching the arse end of September. I'm on Canvey seafront. I've got my factor 50 on, but it still feels like I'm burning. Lovely weather for July, but now? It's just so wrong.
    We are on the Isle of Wight and it feels like mid summer. I've had to use sunscreen as the sun was burning. Although it's not seasonal, it is actually very pleasant. 
  • What used to be referred to as an “Indian summer”.