I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

Garrymanilow said:

Is this what we've been reduced to as a community? Trolls using AI to write their middling posts? I know I've said it before and maybe I'm a man out of time but I remember when we had trolls on here so good if Charlton Life was a physical place we'd have statues dedicated to them. And now we have this? Shame.

Radostanradical said:

Uboat said:

Radostanradical said:

EugenesAxe said:

PeaksAndValleys said:

Radostanradical said:

PeaksAndValleys said:

Radostanradical said:

The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.

Lets be real, our early form flattered us. Even when we won 3 on the bounce were we actually playing well? For me bar the West Ham match not really. And for all the Jones disciples saying we are only 3 points off 8th or that we would of loved to be in this position last year, here is a fact - we havent won a league game since August.

As said I hope I am wrong and if we stick with Jones (a manager I have backed previously when our so called fans wanted him out for getting rid of a few players) ill be proven wrong, I just doubt I will be.

I literally listed six reasons in a post just above yours. They were helpfully numbered, to avoid just such a misunderstanding.

As I said, feel free to disagree with any of them, would be interested to hear it. But this post is just bollocks

This is incorrect for a number of reasons and I am currently on my lunch break so I will be kind enough to destroy all your arguments. You are welcome.

"We've been here before and Jones always turns it around" isn't actually an argument, it's just blind faith. At some point every manager runs out of turnarounds. If we're constantly ending up in these awful runs where half the fanbase wants him gone, maybe that's not evidence of his ability to fix problems, maybe it's evidence he's creating them in the first place. You don't get endless credit for putting out fires if you're the one holding the matches.

The budget excuse is getting a bit tired as well. We're told the squad isn't good enough, but Jones has had a massive say in recruitment, hasn't he? If the squad is genuinely this poor then who exactly is responsible for building it? Also, football history is full of managers getting more out of limited squads. You can't spend years taking credit for overperforming and then immediately hide behind the budget whenever the team falls apart.

The "who would you replace him with?" line is always one of the weakest arguments in football. Fans aren't paid to identify managerial targets. That's the club's job. If your defence of a manager boils down to "I can't think of anyone else" then you're basically admitting the performances aren't good enough and just hoping something turns up.

As for the league position, that's looking in the rear-view mirror. The concern is where we're heading, not where we've been. Teams don't suddenly wake up one morning in trouble. They slide into it because people keep pointing at the table and ignoring what's happening on the pitch. If the football is poor and the results are getting worse, eventually the table catches up with you.

Then there's all this stuff about philosophy being embedded through the club. Why is that automatically a good thing? A philosophy isn't some sacred object that has to be protected at all costs. It's only worth keeping if it's producing results. If it's not working, then being deeply embedded just means you've spread the problem throughout the club rather than solving it.

And finally, the five-year contract. That's the most bizarre defence of all. The fact it's expensive to sack him doesn't make him the right manager. That's just sunk-cost thinking. If a decision isn't working, throwing more time at it because you've already invested money is exactly how clubs make bad situations worse.

The reality is that most of these arguments aren't reasons to keep Jones. They're reasons why it would be awkward, expensive or inconvenient to get rid of him. They're arguments for sticking, not arguments that he's actually doing a good job.

Finally, If Nathan Jones was unemployed tomorrow and somebody suggested appointing him based purely on the football, performances and trajectory we're seeing right now, how many Charlton fans would be genuinely excited by it? I think we all know the answer.

It was cute you thought you made a point by calling my post bollocks though.

Not on my lunch break but luckily I'm treated like a big boy so I can manage my own time and respond to this immediately.

I'll start with the worst part (takes some doing) which is in bold. You start out saying they aren't reasons to keep Jones, then say they are reasons why getting rid would be bad - those are two sides of the same coin, if it's bad to get rid then that's a reason not to (also known as keeping him).

Then you say they are reasons for keeping not for him doing a good job - that's about the only correct thing in your post, unfortunately it's not an argument against me since that's exactly what I said the reasons were. Feel free to take a look. While you're scrolling back maybe look at your own post which referred to 'the only possible argument for keeping Jones' (not, the only argument for him doing a brilliant job currently).

Onto the also incorrect but slightly less offensively incoherent counterarguments. Blind faith - no, people calling for Jones' head have been shown to be wrong on multiple occasions. That's a very good reason to think they might be wrong now. Blind faith is sacking with no alternative plan and hoping things magically get better.

Ups and downs are part of football, if the average outcome season end is positive (which it is - safety, promotion, safety) then long term it's a good appointment. Sacking on every down is how you spend years languishing in league one. 

If you're tired of people pointing out that the budget almost guarantees poor performances and a low league position then take a nap. But it will still be true when you wake up. 

League position, as above it's about how you average out. He didn't deserve an offer to manage Barcelona off the back of winning the first three games and he doesn't deserve the sack off the back of the current run. As I said the form is concerning and that needs to be kept under review. Both position and form are rear view and used as an indicator of the future - you're just being selective in which one you want to cite. 

Think I've already dealt with your two final non points. I didn't say they made him a good manager, I said they were downsides to sacking him and therefore arguments for keeping him.

It was cute that you thought you could destroy my arguments. Glad I could clear things up for you. You're welcome. Hope you had time for a sandwich in between typing out that bollocks. 

Needless to say you had the last laugh...

It's nice to see Radostan writing in proper sentences though, and has dropped the "I'm too intelligent to use grammar" thing.

As always I have heard my people and give plentiful and wisely. I am but a man of the people, as long as those people are at least university educated and middle class. I'll tolerate the rest.

‘give plentiful’? 

Shame you don’t know about adverbs. 

No, I am using the term correctly.

Croydon said:

I do understand anyone who is Jones in at this stage, but the way some of you talk about him you'd think he was the second coming of Christ. 

NabySarr said:

Croydon said:

I do understand anyone who is Jones in at this stage, but the way some of you talk about him you'd think he was the second coming of Christ. 

In fairness the second coming of Christ would have struggled with the team he inherited a few years ago. Club had been declining on and off the pitch for a decade, to turn that around so quickly was incredible. I’m not surprised that myself and others feel strongly he deserved a bit more time to turn this around 

shine166 said:

NabySarr said:

Croydon said:

I do understand anyone who is Jones in at this stage, but the way some of you talk about him you'd think he was the second coming of Christ. 

In fairness the second coming of Christ would have struggled with the team he inherited a few years ago. Club had been declining on and off the pitch for a decade, to turn that around so quickly was incredible. I’m not surprised that myself and others feel strongly he deserved a bit more time to turn this around 

How many seasons does the grace period last ? Im not saying sack Jones, but this was 4 seasons ago now. 

Uboat said:

Radostanradical said:

Uboat said:

Radostanradical said:

EugenesAxe said:

PeaksAndValleys said:

Radostanradical said:

PeaksAndValleys said:

Radostanradical said:

The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.

Lets be real, our early form flattered us. Even when we won 3 on the bounce were we actually playing well? For me bar the West Ham match not really. And for all the Jones disciples saying we are only 3 points off 8th or that we would of loved to be in this position last year, here is a fact - we havent won a league game since August.

As said I hope I am wrong and if we stick with Jones (a manager I have backed previously when our so called fans wanted him out for getting rid of a few players) ill be proven wrong, I just doubt I will be.

I literally listed six reasons in a post just above yours. They were helpfully numbered, to avoid just such a misunderstanding.

As I said, feel free to disagree with any of them, would be interested to hear it. But this post is just bollocks

This is incorrect for a number of reasons and I am currently on my lunch break so I will be kind enough to destroy all your arguments. You are welcome.

"We've been here before and Jones always turns it around" isn't actually an argument, it's just blind faith. At some point every manager runs out of turnarounds. If we're constantly ending up in these awful runs where half the fanbase wants him gone, maybe that's not evidence of his ability to fix problems, maybe it's evidence he's creating them in the first place. You don't get endless credit for putting out fires if you're the one holding the matches.

The budget excuse is getting a bit tired as well. We're told the squad isn't good enough, but Jones has had a massive say in recruitment, hasn't he? If the squad is genuinely this poor then who exactly is responsible for building it? Also, football history is full of managers getting more out of limited squads. You can't spend years taking credit for overperforming and then immediately hide behind the budget whenever the team falls apart.

The "who would you replace him with?" line is always one of the weakest arguments in football. Fans aren't paid to identify managerial targets. That's the club's job. If your defence of a manager boils down to "I can't think of anyone else" then you're basically admitting the performances aren't good enough and just hoping something turns up.

As for the league position, that's looking in the rear-view mirror. The concern is where we're heading, not where we've been. Teams don't suddenly wake up one morning in trouble. They slide into it because people keep pointing at the table and ignoring what's happening on the pitch. If the football is poor and the results are getting worse, eventually the table catches up with you.

Then there's all this stuff about philosophy being embedded through the club. Why is that automatically a good thing? A philosophy isn't some sacred object that has to be protected at all costs. It's only worth keeping if it's producing results. If it's not working, then being deeply embedded just means you've spread the problem throughout the club rather than solving it.

And finally, the five-year contract. That's the most bizarre defence of all. The fact it's expensive to sack him doesn't make him the right manager. That's just sunk-cost thinking. If a decision isn't working, throwing more time at it because you've already invested money is exactly how clubs make bad situations worse.

The reality is that most of these arguments aren't reasons to keep Jones. They're reasons why it would be awkward, expensive or inconvenient to get rid of him. They're arguments for sticking, not arguments that he's actually doing a good job.

Finally, If Nathan Jones was unemployed tomorrow and somebody suggested appointing him based purely on the football, performances and trajectory we're seeing right now, how many Charlton fans would be genuinely excited by it? I think we all know the answer.

It was cute you thought you made a point by calling my post bollocks though.

Not on my lunch break but luckily I'm treated like a big boy so I can manage my own time and respond to this immediately.

I'll start with the worst part (takes some doing) which is in bold. You start out saying they aren't reasons to keep Jones, then say they are reasons why getting rid would be bad - those are two sides of the same coin, if it's bad to get rid then that's a reason not to (also known as keeping him).

Then you say they are reasons for keeping not for him doing a good job - that's about the only correct thing in your post, unfortunately it's not an argument against me since that's exactly what I said the reasons were. Feel free to take a look. While you're scrolling back maybe look at your own post which referred to 'the only possible argument for keeping Jones' (not, the only argument for him doing a brilliant job currently).

Onto the also incorrect but slightly less offensively incoherent counterarguments. Blind faith - no, people calling for Jones' head have been shown to be wrong on multiple occasions. That's a very good reason to think they might be wrong now. Blind faith is sacking with no alternative plan and hoping things magically get better.

Ups and downs are part of football, if the average outcome season end is positive (which it is - safety, promotion, safety) then long term it's a good appointment. Sacking on every down is how you spend years languishing in league one. 

If you're tired of people pointing out that the budget almost guarantees poor performances and a low league position then take a nap. But it will still be true when you wake up. 

League position, as above it's about how you average out. He didn't deserve an offer to manage Barcelona off the back of winning the first three games and he doesn't deserve the sack off the back of the current run. As I said the form is concerning and that needs to be kept under review. Both position and form are rear view and used as an indicator of the future - you're just being selective in which one you want to cite. 

Think I've already dealt with your two final non points. I didn't say they made him a good manager, I said they were downsides to sacking him and therefore arguments for keeping him.

It was cute that you thought you could destroy my arguments. Glad I could clear things up for you. You're welcome. Hope you had time for a sandwich in between typing out that bollocks. 

Needless to say you had the last laugh...

It's nice to see Radostan writing in proper sentences though, and has dropped the "I'm too intelligent to use grammar" thing.

As always I have heard my people and give plentiful and wisely. I am but a man of the people, as long as those people are at least university educated and middle class. I'll tolerate the rest.

‘give plentiful’? 

Shame you don’t know about adverbs. 

No, I am using the term correctly.

Nope. You’re using an adjective as an adverb. Maybe they didn’t do that the day you win in school.  You certainly give plentifully of your nonsense opinions. I’ll give you that. 

Garrymanilow said:

PeaksAndValleys said:

Garrymanilow said:

Is this what we've been reduced to as a community? Trolls using AI to write their middling posts? I know I've said it before and maybe I'm a man out of time but I remember when we had trolls on here so good if Charlton Life was a physical place we'd have statues dedicated to them. And now we have this? Shame.

Not sure if this was a reference to me but if so I'm not sure how I'm the one coming out of that exchange labelled as the troll!

Also just because someone says something is AI doesn't mean it is - fwiw I'm pretty sure a hyphen isn't an AI thing, it uses this weird long dash that I'm not sure how you even find on a keyboard if you're a human.

I will accept your suggestion of a statue though 

It was not.

ForeverAddickted said:

On the subject of transfers, with people asking why we're bringing in crocked players like Chalobah and potentially March, the answer is bloody simple, because if we want their level of ability in the team then they are all that we can afford - and that we have to take the risk in hoping they'll be fit enough to contribute as much as what we were hoping.

On the topic of Ouma, he's another one where we've had to take the risk and hope that his talent and ability on the pitch would justify the transfer (thankfully its likely its only a loan), because what we've seen in the scouting videos, I imagine we feel we can't afford to pay the same sort of money for an already established Championship player of the same ilk... Mesik could have been exactly the same sort of disappointed (on the pitch), given our mixed history signing players from the Eredivisie, its the risk you take signing any player - Yes there were always the warnings that Ouma would do what he's potentially gone and done, but equally you'd have hoped that coming to play in England would have been the difference, here you get the chance to get properly noticed, the chance to play in the Premier League and earn proper money, certainly compared to what he's no doubt been able to earn from the game so far I'd imagine... Sadly its quite possible he's not taken those factors into consideration.

fenaddick said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

ForeverAddickted said:

On the subject of transfers, with people asking why we're bringing in crocked players like Chalobah and potentially March, the answer is bloody simple, because if we want their level of ability in the team then they are all that we can afford - and that we have to take the risk in hoping they'll be fit enough to contribute as much as what we were hoping.

On the topic of Ouma, he's another one where we've had to take the risk and hope that his talent and ability on the pitch would justify the transfer (thankfully its likely its only a loan), because what we've seen in the scouting videos, I imagine we feel we can't afford to pay the same sort of money for an already established Championship player of the same ilk... Mesik could have been exactly the same sort of disappointed (on the pitch), given our mixed history signing players from the Eredivisie, its the risk you take signing any player - Yes there were always the warnings that Ouma would do what he's potentially gone and done, but equally you'd have hoped that coming to play in England would have been the difference, here you get the chance to get properly noticed, the chance to play in the Premier League and earn proper money, certainly compared to what he's no doubt been able to earn from the game so far I'd imagine... Sadly its quite possible he's not taken those factors into consideration.

Re: transfers i don't know why we're not looking more at the Japanese league (or at least Japanese players in other leagues). They're likely to be relatively cheap, attitude not likely to be a problem, and they always seem to settle well in English football.

I know we were linked with a right back last season, but perhaps we should be exploring what midfielders are out there.

Because it's classed as a Band 4 league in the work permit process, for them to qualify for a permit they will need to be playing a good chunk of international football which will put them out of our budget. 

The way round that is to buy a Japanese player who has played in Germany, for example, but then their cost shoots up