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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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Its evidence of a trend, admitedly as you allude to there are still lot of moving parts but if the trajectory is showing one thing its still evidence of an analysis.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just as it did last season, it’s not evidence that we’ll go down.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show an aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.0 -
Whereas your dealer has already been round. I won that argument too.Radostanradical said:
I thought you were done with commenting on my posts. Dont worry mate off licence will open up soon.Addick Addict said:
"an aggressive". Needless to say, I won that argument.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show a aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.0 -
Nothing like having a wind-up merchant on this forum when the club is experiencing a low point.
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PeaksAndValleys said:
Not on my lunch break but luckily I'm treated like a big boy so I can manage my own time and respond to this immediately.Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect for a number of reasons and I am currently on my lunch break so I will be kind enough to destroy all your arguments. You are welcome.PeaksAndValleys said:
I literally listed six reasons in a post just above yours. They were helpfully numbered, to avoid just such a misunderstanding.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.
Lets be real, our early form flattered us. Even when we won 3 on the bounce were we actually playing well? For me bar the West Ham match not really. And for all the Jones disciples saying we are only 3 points off 8th or that we would of loved to be in this position last year, here is a fact - we havent won a league game since August.
As said I hope I am wrong and if we stick with Jones (a manager I have backed previously when our so called fans wanted him out for getting rid of a few players) ill be proven wrong, I just doubt I will be.
As I said, feel free to disagree with any of them, would be interested to hear it. But this post is just bollocks
"We've been here before and Jones always turns it around" isn't actually an argument, it's just blind faith. At some point every manager runs out of turnarounds. If we're constantly ending up in these awful runs where half the fanbase wants him gone, maybe that's not evidence of his ability to fix problems, maybe it's evidence he's creating them in the first place. You don't get endless credit for putting out fires if you're the one holding the matches.
The budget excuse is getting a bit tired as well. We're told the squad isn't good enough, but Jones has had a massive say in recruitment, hasn't he? If the squad is genuinely this poor then who exactly is responsible for building it? Also, football history is full of managers getting more out of limited squads. You can't spend years taking credit for overperforming and then immediately hide behind the budget whenever the team falls apart.
The "who would you replace him with?" line is always one of the weakest arguments in football. Fans aren't paid to identify managerial targets. That's the club's job. If your defence of a manager boils down to "I can't think of anyone else" then you're basically admitting the performances aren't good enough and just hoping something turns up.
As for the league position, that's looking in the rear-view mirror. The concern is where we're heading, not where we've been. Teams don't suddenly wake up one morning in trouble. They slide into it because people keep pointing at the table and ignoring what's happening on the pitch. If the football is poor and the results are getting worse, eventually the table catches up with you.
Then there's all this stuff about philosophy being embedded through the club. Why is that automatically a good thing? A philosophy isn't some sacred object that has to be protected at all costs. It's only worth keeping if it's producing results. If it's not working, then being deeply embedded just means you've spread the problem throughout the club rather than solving it.
And finally, the five-year contract. That's the most bizarre defence of all. The fact it's expensive to sack him doesn't make him the right manager. That's just sunk-cost thinking. If a decision isn't working, throwing more time at it because you've already invested money is exactly how clubs make bad situations worse.
The reality is that most of these arguments aren't reasons to keep Jones. They're reasons why it would be awkward, expensive or inconvenient to get rid of him. They're arguments for sticking, not arguments that he's actually doing a good job.
Finally, If Nathan Jones was unemployed tomorrow and somebody suggested appointing him based purely on the football, performances and trajectory we're seeing right now, how many Charlton fans would be genuinely excited by it? I think we all know the answer.
It was cute you thought you made a point by calling my post bollocks though.
I'll start with the worst part (takes some doing) which is in bold. You start out saying they aren't reasons to keep Jones, then say they are reasons why getting rid would be bad - those are two sides of the same coin, if it's bad to get rid then that's a reason not to (also known as keeping him).
Then you say they are reasons for keeping not for him doing a good job - that's about the only correct thing in your post, unfortunately it's not an argument against me since that's exactly what I said the reasons were. Feel free to take a look. While you're scrolling back maybe look at your own post which referred to 'the only possible argument for keeping Jones' (not, the only argument for him doing a brilliant job currently).
Onto the also incorrect but slightly less offensively incoherent counterarguments. Blind faith - no, people calling for Jones' head have been shown to be wrong on multiple occasions. That's a very good reason to think they might be wrong now. Blind faith is sacking with no alternative plan and hoping things magically get better.
Ups and downs are part of football, if the average outcome season end is positive (which it is - safety, promotion, safety) then long term it's a good appointment. Sacking on every down is how you spend years languishing in league one.
If you're tired of people pointing out that the budget almost guarantees poor performances and a low league position then take a nap. But it will still be true when you wake up.
League position, as above it's about how you average out. He didn't deserve an offer to manage Barcelona off the back of winning the first three games and he doesn't deserve the sack off the back of the current run. As I said the form is concerning and that needs to be kept under review. Both position and form are rear view and used as an indicator of the future - you're just being selective in which one you want to cite.
Think I've already dealt with your two final non points. I didn't say they made him a good manager, I said they were downsides to sacking him and therefore arguments for keeping him.
It was cute that you thought you could destroy my arguments. Glad I could clear things up for you. You're welcome. Hope you had time for a sandwich in between typing out that bollocks.My sandwich is bigger than your sandwich, ner na ner na ner ner.Ffs, it's only Monday, this is going to be a long week..............it'll be even longer when Norwich roll us over.
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Yes he has, Quinton my antiques dealer was round at the weekend and helped me source a beautiful edwardian dinner table that I shall have Christmas supper on with my family. No doubt we shall see you banging on the window of your local spoons begging to be let in at 7.45 am.Addick Addict said:
Whereas your dealer has already been round. I won that argument too.Radostanradical said:
I thought you were done with commenting on my posts. Dont worry mate off licence will open up soon.Addick Addict said:
"an aggressive". Needless to say, I won that argument.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show a aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.7 -
which is quite different from evidence, someone as highly educated as yourself should know that.Radostanradical said:
Its evidence of a trend, admitedly as you allude to there are still lot of moving parts but if the trajectory is showing one thing its still evidence of an analysis.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just as it did last season, it’s not evidence that we’ll go down.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show an aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.0 -
No sorry you are incorrect a trend analysis is still evidence. I am not even trying to be an obnoxious dick here but I am correct. It is evidence of a decline.Stu_of_Kunming said:
which is quite different from evidence, someone as highly educated as yourself should know that.Radostanradical said:
Its evidence of a trend, admitedly as you allude to there are still lot of moving parts but if the trajectory is showing one thing its still evidence of an analysis.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just as it did last season, it’s not evidence that we’ll go down.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show an aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.1 -
Radostanradical said:
Yes he has, Quinton my antiques dealer was round at the weekend and helped me source a beautiful edwardian dinner table that I shall have Christmas supper on with my family. No doubt we shall see you banging on the window of your local spoons begging to be let in at 7.45 am.Addick Addict said:
Whereas your dealer has already been round. I won that argument too.Radostanradical said:
I thought you were done with commenting on my posts. Dont worry mate off licence will open up soon.Addick Addict said:
"an aggressive". Needless to say, I won that argument.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show a aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.
Nothing wrong in that.
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It’s evidence of a decline, yes, it’s not evidence that Jones will take us down.Radostanradical said:
No sorry you are incorrect a trend analysis is still evidence. I am not even trying to be an obnoxious dick here but I am correct. It is evidence of a decline.Stu_of_Kunming said:
which is quite different from evidence, someone as highly educated as yourself should know that.Radostanradical said:
Its evidence of a trend, admitedly as you allude to there are still lot of moving parts but if the trajectory is showing one thing its still evidence of an analysis.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just as it did last season, it’s not evidence that we’ll go down.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show an aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.1 -
In singularity, no of course not but that binary thinking would mean no evidence ever exists until we are actually relegated.Stu_of_Kunming said:
It’s evidence of a decline, yes, it’s not evidence that Jones will take us down.Radostanradical said:
No sorry you are incorrect a trend analysis is still evidence. I am not even trying to be an obnoxious dick here but I am correct. It is evidence of a decline.Stu_of_Kunming said:
which is quite different from evidence, someone as highly educated as yourself should know that.Radostanradical said:
Its evidence of a trend, admitedly as you allude to there are still lot of moving parts but if the trajectory is showing one thing its still evidence of an analysis.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just as it did last season, it’s not evidence that we’ll go down.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show an aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.0 -
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MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
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Radostanradical said:
In singularity, no of course not but that would binary thinking would mean no evidence ever exists until we are actually relegated.Stu_of_Kunming said:
It’s evidence of a decline, yes, it’s not evidence that Jones will take us down.Radostanradical said:
No sorry you are incorrect a trend analysis is still evidence. I am not even trying to be an obnoxious dick here but I am correct. It is evidence of a decline.Stu_of_Kunming said:
which is quite different from evidence, someone as highly educated as yourself should know that.Radostanradical said:
Its evidence of a trend, admitedly as you allude to there are still lot of moving parts but if the trajectory is showing one thing its still evidence of an analysis.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just as it did last season, it’s not evidence that we’ll go down.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show an aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.Correct.Evidence refers to facts, objects, documents, or testimony used to show whether a claim or belief is true.Everything else is supposition.Supposition is an idea, belief, or theory that someone accepts as true or possible, even though there is no concrete proof or complete evidence to confirm
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The reality is Jones has masterminded a team that can't press, can't create and can't pass the ball out from the back under even minimal pressure. Unless he can figure out a way to quickly fix those flaws he needs to go.7
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But we are categorically better at defending worse than last season!!👍SantaClaus said:The reality is Jones has masterminded a team that can't press, can't create and can't pass the ball out from the back under even minimal pressure. Unless he can figure out a way to quickly fix those flaws he needs to go.1 -
I would agree if Charlie Methven hadn't had such a prominent role in it allGribbo said:MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
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This season is turning into a carbon copy of last season = limited players playing a strict system which does very well at the beginning and then gets worked out by opposition sides, we then add experienced players on frees/loans and we survive. I’m not panicking (yet), but I think the owners will want to start to see progress.0
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What do you reckon he said to make a group of multi-millionaires part with their money and get involved, then?fenaddick said:
I would agree if Charlie Methven hadn't had such a prominent role in it allGribbo said:MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
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I wonder if Pep Guardiola is looking for work1
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I think Jones will probably take us down. I'm only guessing, but i think a lot of the players are playimg under orders and dont really wamt to play for him. What the club did to Docherty was appalling. He's better than most of the current midfield. Finally.....IF Jones manages to keep us up, then it's gonna be more of the same old crap, next season. I'd rather take a chance on a manager who is sane and knows an offensive player when he see's one.1
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I think he told a lot of people with little experience in football who wanted to spend as little as possible that he could cut costs and help them turn a profit. In fact, we've seen the sales deck in which he said that and then when it wasn't happening, they made him the CEO.Gribbo said:
What do you reckon he said to make a group of multi-millionaires part with their money and get involved, then?fenaddick said:
I would agree if Charlie Methven hadn't had such a prominent role in it allGribbo said:MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
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Given that he needed to suspend vast money on full backs at city to make them decent , I can’t see him being excited about managing CovSkippYardAddickt said:I wonder if Pep Guardiola is looking for work0 -
Agree totally with what you say. I think he told them we could fund transfers by selling youth players.fenaddick said:
I think he told a lot of people with little experience in football who wanted to spend as little as possible that he could cut costs and help them turn a profit. In fact, we've seen the sales deck in which he said that and then when it wasn't happening, they made him the CEO.Gribbo said:
What do you reckon he said to make a group of multi-millionaires part with their money and get involved, then?fenaddick said:
I would agree if Charlie Methven hadn't had such a prominent role in it allGribbo said:MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
2 -
He trains the team, sets the formation, the tactics and then picks the team.elbiglad said:I am still very much Jones in. That’s mostly because I believe in him to turn it around (as he has done before), partly by his ability to thrive in situations like ours in this league, and slightly because I don’t like the sound of most of the viable replacement options. The players definitely deserve some of the blame. Far too many passive and weak performances lately.
But this has to be our rock bottom (for the first half of the season at least; I am fully expecting another barren run later in the year). At the moment we do not play in the style Jones wants us to and he makes no secret of that by telling us after every match that the players are not trained to play this way. So something’s gotta give, somewhere. The players do not look confident, we are not the aggressive horrible to play team we once were. The performances have actually been worse than the results.The team has no identity. That is clear by the constant formation changes. But beyond that there’s no philosophy behind the way we play, and is primarily an issue going forward. Things that aren’t currently working:
1. The formation(s). 4-2-3-1 doesn’t work properly because we didn’t sign a good right winger, we are missing someone like Chalobah or an in form no 10 to help create, and we look open at the back. The shift to five at the back has not brought huge improvements in defensive solidity and nullified our already quite limited attaching ability.2. Goals. We are struggling to create chances let alone score. Our two most likely players (TC and Grant) play in the same position and, as we currently set up, neither of them are even playing in that position. I’d rather we revert to 4-2-3-1, and accept that either TC or Grant have to play out of position or not start.3. Maximising the ability we do have. TC started the season on fire and then we changed the formation to reduce his number of touches in 1v1 areas out wide. He looked knackered on Saturday. Leaburn has a unique profile and set of skills that we don’t seem to utilise. We have two hard working industrious midfielders and yet get overrun through the middle constantly. What’s going on?
4. Defensive transition and counter attacks. Wide open from so many attacking free kicks on Saturday and caught on the counter continuously. Same against Burnley. We were built on doing the basics right but look so open at the moment.5. Passive 1v1 defending. We are giving wide players too much space and time to attack our full backs. Either the defenders aren’t confident in their ability or they feel like they’re on an island without adequate support from the player inside of them.6. Pressing. If we do press high up then, typically, we don’t do it very well.Some promising signs:
1. Players are returning from fitness. Koumetio improves our ability to build up, as does a fully fit Ramsay. Chalobah will be a huge upgrade on Skipp, for however long he can stay fit. A signing like Solly March would also benefit us.
2. Attacking set pieces look very dangerous again.
I’m sure there are more reasons for optimism, but I am currently struggling to think of them. Jones deserves our backing and patience. He can definitely turn this around. But the team is lacking confidence and aggression. If we can go back to the basics of Jones’ philosophy - defend the centre of the pitch and the box, press with aggression and intent, fast paced but also direct attacking play - then we will go back to being a team that is competitive in games and hard to beat. I think that’s all most reasonable fans want - sorry to those who are expecting free flowing all out attack football. It’s very frustrating that when things go bad for this team they seem to go really bad. But we have been here before. Hopefully Jones is referencing ‘Watford away’ as a turning point in a press conference later this year… and the next year, and the next year.
If they are not doing what he says and yet he's continuing to pick the same players game after game then he's an idiot.
On the plus side however his Watford post-match comments imply he's at least going to make a few changes next game.0 -
I don’t just believe the multi millionaire owners get hoodwinked by Charlie boy, if they have been then they need to suck it up for being so stupid, I don’t think they are stupid, can’t keep pointing things back to Charlie. I’m no supporter of his but bringing him up each time something is going tits up is a bit tiresome.fenaddick said:
I would agree if Charlie Methven hadn't had such a prominent role in it allGribbo said:MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
4 -
Removed as I misread.bobmunro said:Radostanradical said:
In singularity, no of course not but that would binary thinking would mean no evidence ever exists until we are actually relegated.Stu_of_Kunming said:
It’s evidence of a decline, yes, it’s not evidence that Jones will take us down.Radostanradical said:
No sorry you are incorrect a trend analysis is still evidence. I am not even trying to be an obnoxious dick here but I am correct. It is evidence of a decline.Stu_of_Kunming said:
which is quite different from evidence, someone as highly educated as yourself should know that.Radostanradical said:
Its evidence of a trend, admitedly as you allude to there are still lot of moving parts but if the trajectory is showing one thing its still evidence of an analysis.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Just as it did last season, it’s not evidence that we’ll go down.Radostanradical said:
The championship form table would show an aggressive drop in our position.Stu_of_Kunming said:
What evidence is that? When were we even last in a relegation spot?Radostanradical said:
This is incorrect. There is evidence backing my assertion, yours is purely opinion. We may get relegated if we change manager, equally we could stay up.Chizz said:
There should be no doubt whatsoever that replacing Jones now would rapidly accelerate this march.Radostanradical said:The only possible argument for keeping Jones in charge is the absence of a capable replacement, which should really tell you everything you need to about our prospects and some of our, so called, fans ambtions. There are mangers out there and yes it would be a gamble but I am afraid sticking with Jones is just a slow death march to League 1.Correct.Evidence refers to facts, objects, documents, or testimony used to show whether a claim or belief is true.Everything else is supposition.Supposition is an idea, belief, or theory that someone accepts as true or possible, even though there is no concrete proof or complete evidence to confirm1 -
When he was Southampton manager.0 -
Then wouldn't said owners have jumped at the chance to recoup some of their losses by accepting the reported 7m bid for Mbick?redbuttle said:
Agree totally with what you say. I think he told them we could fund transfers by selling youth players.fenaddick said:
I think he told a lot of people with little experience in football who wanted to spend as little as possible that he could cut costs and help them turn a profit. In fact, we've seen the sales deck in which he said that and then when it wasn't happening, they made him the CEO.Gribbo said:
What do you reckon he said to make a group of multi-millionaires part with their money and get involved, then?fenaddick said:
I would agree if Charlie Methven hadn't had such a prominent role in it allGribbo said:MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
0 -
That's the one thing I can't square. Can only presume that Rodwell/Jones convinced them he'll be worth lots moreChris_from_Sidcup said:
Then wouldn't said owners have jumped at the chance to recoup some of their losses by accepting the reported 7m bid for Mbick?redbuttle said:
Agree totally with what you say. I think he told them we could fund transfers by selling youth players.fenaddick said:
I think he told a lot of people with little experience in football who wanted to spend as little as possible that he could cut costs and help them turn a profit. In fact, we've seen the sales deck in which he said that and then when it wasn't happening, they made him the CEO.Gribbo said:
What do you reckon he said to make a group of multi-millionaires part with their money and get involved, then?fenaddick said:
I would agree if Charlie Methven hadn't had such a prominent role in it allGribbo said:MarcusH26 said:
Think this is a rather good hunch Elfs. They've given it a go at this level for a year and now aren't willing to fund that next step so are looking for a sale.ElfsborgAddick said:
They have found out how costly the Championship is and were misled when in talks to take the club over.Sword65pf said:
I think they have the budget , but not the ambition and want out as soon as possible. But find it odd they have gone in balls deep and decided to pull out.🤷🏻♂️NabySarr said:
If the board were ambitious enough to hire one of these names then we wouldn’t be in the situation we are in because they’d have invested more on players in the summer.AberystwythAddick said:
You’re talking like this is fact when it’s not. Managers make odd moves all the time. NJ coming to us was a weird move for him.NabySarr said:
Bowyer is the only realistic option of those 5, and imo not a good option. The other 4 are not going to want to manage a team with our budget and squad, their next jobs will be top end championship which unfortunately we are notDennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
I’m obviously still very much Jones in, but if we did need a new manager I’d try and persuade Dave Challinor to move down south.If the board are ambitious like they were when they signed NJ many of these are plausible.It is quite clear that they don’t have the budget and ambition to hire one of those names
That's my hunch.This hunch gets brought up quite regularly when we talk about our owners, and I think that's because of our experience with the likes of RD and Sandgaard. (Leave ESI out of this, as I don't think they were bothered as long as there was a little bit of cash about.) But I don't think you can lump this mob into the same category.
I'm pretty sure they would've carried out due diligence on their due diligence, especially when you've got three or four very rich people being advised by their respective advisers. Surely they would've looked into the best / worst case scenarios and the projected finances involved in both?
0 -
Would any other manager do better with this group of limited players though?DennisBooth said:Someone on X has posted five managers we could go for. The first two, I feel, would be out of our price range.1 Parker2. Dyche3. Edwards4. Cooper5. Bowyer
Cooper seems a good shout. His teams always play football.
Managers are not magicians although I know media narrativies would have you think they are1 -
I'm still Jones in. We wouldn't be in the championship without him & think he is working with a shoestring budget so I don't think anyone else could do better.
That being said, if we don't pick up a win soon more people will turn on him & the atmosphere at games could become toxic very quickly.
However, I don't think the board have the funds or desire to sack him1
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