I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

FreshHaddock

paulsturgess said:

I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6 

How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of how things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either were not or did not know how to cope with it.

bobmunro

FreshHaddock said:

paulsturgess said:

I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6 

How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.

I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.

Stu_of_Kunming

bobmunro said:

FreshHaddock said:

paulsturgess said:

I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6 

How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.

I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.

Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true. 

FreshHaddock

@bobmunro - however @paulsturgess mentioned Dykes. I can vividly remember him standing in the opposition box last winter yelling orders at his own team mates at the very first opportunity that he had. I don't have such clear memories of Cody doing anything similar, but he certainly gained a reputation for leadership amongst some of our fans and was (if I recall correctly) lauded by Jones for his leadership qualities and experience. I will concede that finding someone that Jones trusts in that role and who is prepared to take on the huge challenge that is keeping us going, is a big ask, but I believe that if we are patient and Jones is given enough time and there aren't too many adverse extraneous factors, that it is possible. Supporting the Addicks is a bit of a rollercoaster ride, and after yesterday its not easy to think positively but if I allow myself to dream - we have a better squad than we did last October and if we have as good or better a January transfer window next January, I think we will be in a good place even if we don't have players capable of lobbing the Palace keeper from the half way line.

bobmunro

Stu_of_Kunming said:

bobmunro said:

FreshHaddock said:

paulsturgess said:

I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6 

How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.

I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.

Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true. 

@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.

MeerKat

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

MeerKat said:

Sword65pf said:

LittleAddick said:

NJ getting sacked doesn't solve anything, we haven't got the players to play 'good football' at this level

People liking this, is the general consensus that we have got a load of incapable shit players?, surely we’ve seen most of them play well at some point to look at the bigger picture, tactics for one, confidence, our play just seems so stifled. 

Just for arguments sake, if we sacked Jones and hired an absolute magician, who got the very most out of this squad of players, how high do you think they could finish? What do we think is the general consensus on this squads ability?

If for example the choices were to:

a) plod along with Jones like we are playing dire football and nicking the odd result here and finish 19th.
b) play some decent football with a new manager, go into games with intent to win rather than not to lose and finish 16th.

Most people would prefer option B.

I don't think anyone would suddenly expect us to gatecrash the play offs just because we had a new manager, we know that our squad isn't good enough for that. But i would think that most people are just sick of the terrible football we play week in week out.

That said, whenever we've had a sticky patch before Jones has turned it around, so i hope yesterday was a big wake up call and we actually see some changes in tactics and personnel next week and things improve.

Where’s option C? Play better football, get drilled every week and go down? 

Personally im not sure where we are ability wise as a squad. A slight improvement on last season, 15th to 19th maybe.
The fear if we changed Jones would be option C. That would be a disaster, but so would playing shit football all season and still going down.
Is the defensive approach taken by Jones because that's what he deems necessary for this squad to survive or all hes capable of?
The football has been dire to watch but we need to be very careful if option B is the top of our limit. 
I'm on the fence currently about Jones. I think we need to be careful.

fenaddick

bobmunro said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

bobmunro said:

FreshHaddock said:

paulsturgess said:

I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6 

How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.

I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.

Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true. 

@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.

Coady was constantly directing and pointing and was directly praised for doing so by players like Gough and (if memory serves) Coventry. We don't have a single vocal leader on the pitch this season and it shows

bobmunro

fenaddick said:

bobmunro said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

bobmunro said:

FreshHaddock said:

paulsturgess said:

I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6 

How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.

I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.

Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true. 

@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.

Coady was constantly directing and pointing and was directly praised for doing so by players like Gough and (if memory serves) Coventry. We don't have a single vocal leader on the pitch this season and it shows

Probably semantics at play here (that's me, not you or others)- I see what you are describing as organising and I agree that we don't have vocal leaders able or willing to do that. No player on the pitch for Jones would be allowed to affect the style of play and that's what I picked up on as directing.

DDOUBLEE

fenaddick said:

bobmunro said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

bobmunro said:

FreshHaddock said:

paulsturgess said:

I can see the question marks about personalities - neither Coady nor Dykes last season set the world alight as players, neither impacted our style and both were ageing and slow, but it did seem like their leadership made a difference to us. We don't have that in the current front 5/6 

How to like post twice? This is the crux of it. We are really missing someone out on the field that can take the game (and our players) by the scruff of the neck and direct things. I honestly think we need that way more than the vague concept of creative attacking midfielders. It was so frustrating listening to the commentary on Charlton TV yesterday and realising that the commentators were well aware of things were going before the first goal went in, while the players on the field either did not or did not know how to cope with it.

I agree - but I doubt that is possible. Jones directs everything from the touchline and any player changing that or challenging Jones' authority would be screamed at to get back in their box.

Coady showed last season that simply isn’t true. 

@FreshHaddock used the word direct and this is what I picked up on. Coady didn't direct, he was always talking, geeing up and the like. Leadership is not direction unless the big boss trusts a player or players to adjust on the fly. That is not Jones' style.

Coady was constantly directing and pointing and was directly praised for doing so by players like Gough and (if memory serves) Coventry. We don't have a single vocal leader on the pitch this season and it shows

We didn't replace Coady or Fevrier for that matter. The majority of fans laughed at the suggestion of them two coming back but I've seen nothing from Skipp, Alli or Nkeng (laughable) that suggests we've upgraded on them

Addick Addict

Our front five of Coventry, Skipp, Cambell, Grant and Leaburn have scored 16 goals between them in the last two seasons (57 matches) in the Championship from 234 appearances. 

If you pick a side that doesn't have a natural goalscorer and set the team up not to concede, then you will end up with a situation where you haven't scored three goals in a league game for a year. Which is where we are.