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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
Comments
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And i don't have too much sympathy if the bloke who got beat up was one of them idiots goading from the other side of the fence - i do care about being inconvenienced at the expense of millwall.0
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He doesn’t even have a season ticket!DOUCHER said:
Well, that's where we are different i guess - i'm 54 and won't be put off going for something like this but will try and do something about itclb74 said:
Not me Doucher.DOUCHER said:
Well u might do but I will do all I can to change thingsclb74 said:
You will put up with it though.DOUCHER said:
Yes. The fact it (home team being held back, not the away team) happens at no other game in the country? Isn't that the key point? Its not just unusual, its unique to us!!! and it shouldn't happen and we need to point that fact out and expose the decision for the 'path of least resistance bollox that it is - we shouldn't put up with it - no other club does!! Strewth.bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
My mistake re you and cast. But surely its obvious - CAST have a platform, a voice that should be heard and represent us hence my exasperation with them missing the main point- i have sent an email to the club, and am looking for the contact details for the police. I'll also fill out the survey.aliwibble said:DOUCHER said:
because nowhere in any of your questions have u asked why they, the police, thought that would be the right solution when iot doesn't happen at any other ground? the club must know the answer to that surely? this wouldn't happen in a rangers celtic, villa birmingham or man utd liverpool match so how the hell has it been allowed to happen here - again ? uselessaliwibble said:DOUCHER said:when you don't ask the right questions, you allow bland generic bollox like that to be the answer - 'take it up with the police, we're not telling you the reason why we rolled over and allowed our home fans to be fucked over again at the expense of millwall fans and you never asked us that anyway so why would we offer that information up' - cast, your useless.Why do you keep giving CAST grief for the fuckups of the Police and the club? The obvious answer to why the club "rolled over" and didn't keep the Millwall fans in is that they needed the Police agreement to do that. Or were you expecting the stewards to keep 3000 pissed off Millwall fans in the Jimmy Seed without any police support? Would we even have had a safety certificate for the match if we didn't agree the policing arrangements for the game with the Met? And the club has no control over how the Police decide to deal with fans once they've left the ground.Given that a similar stupid strategy appears to have been used at Palace v Millwall that seems to indicate that the driving force behind the decision was the Met and not the club. The club has handled (and continues to handle) the communications very poorly, could possibly have done better with stewarding by the gate that got broken through, but the bigger villain of the piece is whichever idiot in the Met decided that this was a good plan.My questions? I'm only a random supporter not a member of the CAST board, and they have asked the Police why the decision was taken not to hold the visiting supporters back when that's what is usually done. I'm just puzzled by you continually directing your frustration at fellow fans that are trying to get answers on our behalf, rather than the people who made the decisions in the first place.
I realise that I'm probably wasting my time, but hey ho - did you not see the email sent to the police from CAST? What main point was missing from that email? Genuine question.
Same as quite a few other posters on this thread.
@Covered End has had a season ticket for 60 years and will continue to do so no matter what the club .does.
I last had a season ticket 3 years ago.
I wouldn't of bothered going last Saturday if I did have one.
If you think at the age of 51 I'm f@cking about on an 8 mile detour to get to the station at the Valley you're wrong.
Does anyone know what time OUR supporters started getting the train back to Lewisham/London Saturday?0 -
So, one week on and where are we? (sorry, not been keeping fully up to speed)
Nothing on the club website by way of an explanation or apology for the inconvenience (at the very least)?
Any word from the Old Bill as to who's decision it was to "re-route" the home fans?
Any arrests made over the East Stand shenaningans?
@MillwallFan been on, maintaining that it isn't the 70s and his lot are just misunderstood?7 -
Quite simple for me, If we’re in the same league next season, I’m just not going! Not putting up with that shit again unless it’s stated beforehand they’re holding the Millwall fans back!5
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Exemplary.Airman Brown said:
@DOUCHER if you want to " do something" (and I genuinely appreciate you and all others who get up off their arses and do something) then that article gives you all the material you need. Copy the relevant bits and aim them at the police and the club. That's what I'm doing. No need to re-invent the wheel when the wheel has already been perfectly crafted.2 -
I’m pleased to see this article reminds us of the ticketing for the play off finals and lack of satisfactory comms for that too.I guess also however the longer the club say nothing on either issue the harder it becomes for them to ‘admit’ any issues and I suspect it is easier for them to maintain the wall of silence.1
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@Airman Brown has made it even easier to articulate what answers we want.Airman Brown said:Just ask the club what they are going to do to remedy the points made in this article.Please take 2 minutes to email so that we keep the pressure on from as many angles as possible.2 -
i've written to the club. i've written to the police and i've done both surveys - i'm not gettiung into another debate on here - that article fails to bring up the main point that bothers me - the fact we were inconvenienced instead of millwall - as i say, i'm not goiing into it again and i know it was the police that made that decision but i don;'t care - the club are party to this and need to be told its unnacceptable and happens at no other ground in the country - another failure of an article in my opinion.PragueAddick said:
Exemplary.Airman Brown said:
@DOUCHER if you want to " do something" (and I genuinely appreciate you and all others who get up off their arses and do something) then that article gives you all the material you need. Copy the relevant bits and aim them at the police and the club. That's what I'm doing. No need to re-invent the wheel when the wheel has already been perfectly crafted.4 -
“Inconvenience” won’t win an argument here. Safety will.13
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The Club can at the very least apologise for the inconvenience and confusion, even all of the decisions and issues weren't of it's own making. Sorry does indeed seem to be the hardest word.Airman Brown said:“Inconvenience” won’t win an argument here. Safety will.
The Club and the Police combined need to answer for the safety issues. Which is the more serious issue, but that doesn't mean the inconvenience point should just be ignored. We are paying customers after all.
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Both need to be addressedAirman Brown said:“Inconvenience” won’t win an argument here. Safety will.0 -
If u focus on one and not the other they’ll try and hold us in again and not give us the pleasure of a long walk we didn’t want1
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Just perhaps the club value potential damage to the Jimmy Seed Stand caused by held back Millwall fans over damage to Charlton fans?East Kent Addick said:
One of the coppers outside the club shop told me that it was the club's decision to get the Millwall fans out first and was agreeing with us that it was wrong to inconvenience 20,000 home fans.Airman Brown said:That is a very poor response. Note that it does not say that the police made the decision not to keep the Millwall fans behind. That needs to be interrogated.0 -
The balance of anecdotal evidence suggests that lone copper had incorrect info, though.TellyTubby said:
Just perhaps the club value potential damage to the Jimmy Seed Stand caused by held back Millwall fans over damage to Charlton fans?East Kent Addick said:
One of the coppers outside the club shop told me that it was the club's decision to get the Millwall fans out first and was agreeing with us that it was wrong to inconvenience 20,000 home fans.Airman Brown said:That is a very poor response. Note that it does not say that the police made the decision not to keep the Millwall fans behind. That needs to be interrogated.
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If we don’t get the decision not to hold us back or walk a long way round then we should start a campaign to get as many people to ignore it as possible - 20,000 people planning to break through the police lines must be significant intel of a spontaneous event that will need to be avoided - tops the potential of the odd skirmish surely ?0
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According to southendaddick on the chef roll call thread the board and Steve Brown are on the train up to Sheffield now so an opportunity may present there or on way back for someone to put views directly and at least ask what they are intending to do or say on this debacle.BalladMan said:
@Airman Brown has made it even easier to articulate what answers we want.Airman Brown said:Just ask the club what they are going to do to remedy the points made in this article.Please take 2 minutes to email so that we keep the pressure on from as many angles as possible.4 -
Are you a Millwall fan?DOUCHER said:If we don’t get the decision not to hold us back or walk a long way round then we should start a campaign to get as many people to ignore it as possible - 20,000 people planning to break through the police lines must be significant intel of a spontaneous event that will need to be avoided - tops the potential of the odd skirmish surely ?0 -
Maybe, but it shouldn’t be seen as ‘inevitable’. Pay for more police to stop this happening. Send the bill to MillwallTellyTubby said:
Just perhaps the club value potential damage to the Jimmy Seed Stand caused by held back Millwall fans over damage to Charlton fans?East Kent Addick said:
One of the coppers outside the club shop told me that it was the club's decision to get the Millwall fans out first and was agreeing with us that it was wrong to inconvenience 20,000 home fans.Airman Brown said:That is a very poor response. Note that it does not say that the police made the decision not to keep the Millwall fans behind. That needs to be interrogated.
edit - my point being that Millwall are ‘allowed’ to behave like thugs and just get away with it.5 -
Were Sheffield Utd made to walk in a massive circle away from Charlton fans whilst Charlton fans got a fireman’s carry on the back of the local plod?4
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BalladMan said:Were Sheffield Utd made to walk in a massive circle away from Charlton fans whilst Charlton fans got a fireman’s carry on the back of the local plod?
You say in jest, but it would be interesting to see how things are done for the Sheffield derbies.
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Where has this assumption come from that MillwallTellyTubby said:
Just perhaps the club value potential damage to the Jimmy Seed Stand caused by held back Millwall fans over damage to Charlton fans?East Kent Addick said:
One of the coppers outside the club shop told me that it was the club's decision to get the Millwall fans out first and was agreeing with us that it was wrong to inconvenience 20,000 home fans.Airman Brown said:That is a very poor response. Note that it does not say that the police made the decision not to keep the Millwall fans behind. That needs to be interrogated.
fans are held in after a game that they will
smash up the away end ? Utter nonsense
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Brilliant VOTV article, Airman doing what he does best a through & honest article about what happened and poor comms for Millwall but also the ticket debacle at Play Off semi final & Final.Airman Brown said:
I'm totally staggered that The Met had 295 officers on duty....where were they? Doing what the Met does best sitting in White vans or standing in large groups being ineffective.
Sadly no one in authority wants to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong, this is across the wider society from the very top down. However the club showed contempt with their lack of response and survey. Its easy to communicate the good times but when they're are genuine concerns from the fan base, please don't cynically ignore them & try & fob off the fans with a half baked survey but get on the front foot and communicate to the fan base. Thats all we ask and that this doesn't happen again.
Airman - Rick, my father used to love reading VOTV arriving in the post firstly in Devon then when he lived in Bath, phoning me often saying have you read what Rick wrote. He never meet you but he held you in the highest regard. VOTV was and is the very best of football fanzines. COYA's20 -
That’s kind. Thanks.TootingRedArmy said:
Brilliant VOTV article, Airman doing what he does best a through & honest article about what happened and poor comms for Millwall but also the ticket debacle at Play Off semi final & Final.Airman Brown said:
I'm totally staggered that The Met had 295 officers on duty....where were they? Doing what the Met does best sitting in White vans or standing in large groups being ineffective.
Sadly no one in authority wants to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong, this is across the wider society from the very top down. However the club showed contempt with their lack of response and survey. Its easy to communicate the good times but when they're are genuine concerns from the fan base, please don't cynically ignore them & try & fob off the fans with a half baked survey but get on the front foot and communicate to the fan base. Thats all we ask and that this doesn't happen again.
Airman - Rick, my father used to love reading VOTV arriving in the post firstly in Devon then when he lived in Bath, phoning me often saying have you read what Rick wrote. He never meet you but he held you in the highest regard. VOTV was and is the very best of football fanzines. COYA's1 -
are you happy to be shafted by the police just so they can have an easy day ?iainment said:
Are you a Millwall fan?DOUCHER said:If we don’t get the decision not to hold us back or walk a long way round then we should start a campaign to get as many people to ignore it as possible - 20,000 people planning to break through the police lines must be significant intel of a spontaneous event that will need to be avoided - tops the potential of the odd skirmish surely ?2 -
This was for their derby game at Hillsborough in March.ElfsborgAddick said:BalladMan said:Were Sheffield Utd made to walk in a massive circle away from Charlton fans whilst Charlton fans got a fireman’s carry on the back of the local plod?
You say in jest, but it would be interesting to see how things are done for the Sheffield derbies.
"Away fans have been asked to remain seated until the stadium clears, and will be kept updated on when they can exit the stadium."5 -
police asking home fans us to stay back or walk out of our way instead of the away fans is the equivalent of someone playing loud music day and night , the police coming round and insisting the rest of the road wear ear plugs18
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295 officers on duty?TootingRedArmy said:
Brilliant VOTV article, Airman doing what he does best a through & honest article about what happened and poor comms for Millwall but also the ticket debacle at Play Off semi final & Final.Airman Brown said:
I'm totally staggered that The Met had 295 officers on duty....where were they? Doing what the Met does best sitting in White vans or standing in large groups being ineffective.
Sadly no one in authority wants to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong, this is across the wider society from the very top down. However the club showed contempt with their lack of response and survey. Its easy to communicate the good times but when they're are genuine concerns from the fan base, please don't cynically ignore them & try & fob off the fans with a half baked survey but get on the front foot and communicate to the fan base. Thats all we ask and that this doesn't happen again.
Airman - Rick, my father used to love reading VOTV arriving in the post firstly in Devon then when he lived in Bath, phoning me often saying have you read what Rick wrote. He never meet you but he held you in the highest regard. VOTV was and is the very best of football fanzines. COYA's
And neither the safety officer or the police gold commander in the control room thought it was worth deploying a few at the bartram entrance at the end of the game?
Incredible.12 -
That seems far too sensible for South Yorkshire PoliceChris_from_Sidcup said:
This was for their derby game at Hillsborough in March.ElfsborgAddick said:BalladMan said:Were Sheffield Utd made to walk in a massive circle away from Charlton fans whilst Charlton fans got a fireman’s carry on the back of the local plod?
You say in jest, but it would be interesting to see how things are done for the Sheffield derbies.
"Away fans have been asked to remain seated until the stadium clears, and will be kept updated on when they can exit the stadium."0 -
The comment was made based on the suggestion from a copper on the ground, that post match plans to let millwall fans out and inconvenience Charlton fans was down to Charlton, not the police.Ducktapeshoerepairs said:
Where has this assumption come from that MillwallTellyTubby said:
Just perhaps the club value potential damage to the Jimmy Seed Stand caused by held back Millwall fans over damage to Charlton fans?East Kent Addick said:
One of the coppers outside the club shop told me that it was the club's decision to get the Millwall fans out first and was agreeing with us that it was wrong to inconvenience 20,000 home fans.Airman Brown said:That is a very poor response. Note that it does not say that the police made the decision not to keep the Millwall fans behind. That needs to be interrogated.
fans are held in after a game that they will
smash up the away end ? Utter nonsense
A big if, but IF the copper is correct, maybe you can come up with logic that isn't 'utter nonsence' for the reasoning? Bearing in mind fans had this bollox last time too.
Given the complete lack of explanation from the club this time or previously, anybodies guess is as good as the next from those not involved in the decision making.1
