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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Middlesborough: Tuesday 09th December 2025: KO 19:45
Comments
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I don't expect you to accept any criticism of your favourites because you're Leuth.Leuth said:
Accusing probably our hardest-working player of not really trying is normal thenChunes said:
I praise players when they play well and criticise them when they play poorly. I'm the normal one in this scenario, you are not.Leuth said:
You've been waiting a long time to get the boot into Coventry like that. Snide little 'pathetic', I see youChunes said:I'll join the chorus that didn't get the team selection either. If we've lost four on the bounce and we're playing a good team, then surely we want to keep it tight and be hard to break down. And he starts Knibbs, Carey and Berry. I don't get it. Whatever way I look at it, it makes no sense. No aspect of that midfield was working. Even Coventry was constantly getting caught wrong side of his man, and his half-hearted tracking back was pathetic.
When we replaced half the midfield we started to have some snap in the middle of the park. And only when Berry went off as well did we actually grow into the game.1 -
Thought we gave it a decent go in the second half but Boro were a class apart so much quicker than us in every way.
And like all good sides capable of the dark arts, how that ref only got 4 mins injury time is beyond me
Lets find a formation that works and grind out some Xmas points, I’d really like to see more of Anderson Fullah and Tanto just for the energy they bring
Carey and Knibbs just don’t work in the same XI
Been a tough few weeks if we can nick a point at Brum to stop the rot that would be a start3 -
This is reminding me of this time last season. Losing at home to Crawley & NJ trying to find a formation/personnel to work. He stumbled on Small as right wingback & Bob's your uncle. NJ got lucky last season but he now actually needs to know what he's doing or are we going to have to hope that lightning does strike the same place twice.2121 said:Jones’ selection fault in the first half.Needs to give anderson and fullah a chance now and be more positive.
still time to turn it around!0 -
I can accept that Coventry was a bit ineffective and couldn't get a grip of the midfield (especially with the lack of help he was getting), and that he took a couple of negative passing options. He wasn't great, put it that way. But you're uncorking the one unforgivable sin - not trying - on a guy who's pulled up trees for usChunes said:
I don't expect you to accept any criticism of your favourites because you're Leuth.Leuth said:
Accusing probably our hardest-working player of not really trying is normal thenChunes said:
I praise players when they play well and criticise them when they play poorly. I'm the normal one in this scenario, you are not.Leuth said:
You've been waiting a long time to get the boot into Coventry like that. Snide little 'pathetic', I see youChunes said:I'll join the chorus that didn't get the team selection either. If we've lost four on the bounce and we're playing a good team, then surely we want to keep it tight and be hard to break down. And he starts Knibbs, Carey and Berry. I don't get it. Whatever way I look at it, it makes no sense. No aspect of that midfield was working. Even Coventry was constantly getting caught wrong side of his man, and his half-hearted tracking back was pathetic.
When we replaced half the midfield we started to have some snap in the middle of the park. And only when Berry went off as well did we actually grow into the game.0 -
Boro the better side but at least we gave it a go second half. And nearly grabbed a point if Oloafe could keep his shot down.3
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Why the need to be rude?DDOUBLEE said:Kaminski
Apter Ramsay Jones Gillesphey Rousillon
Anderson Docherty Fullah
Carey
Olaofe
On Saturday please (won't happen as the two youth clowns MUST START)0 -
As a pro footballer, why is he not trying to hit that low and across the keeper into the bottom corner isn’t that what we are all told to do?BigRedEvil said:Boro the better side but at least we gave it a go second half. And nearly grabbed a point if Oloafe could keep his shot down.3 -
Yeah you said similar when I would accuse Michael Hector of not trying. No lack of love for you Leuthy but no interest in talking about these footballers. We just have different standards.Leuth said:
I can accept that Coventry was a bit ineffective and couldn't get a grip of the midfield (especially with the lack of help he was getting), and that he took a couple of negative passing options. He wasn't great, put it that way. But you're uncorking the one unforgivable sin - not trying - on a guy who's pulled up trees for usChunes said:
I don't expect you to accept any criticism of your favourites because you're Leuth.Leuth said:
Accusing probably our hardest-working player of not really trying is normal thenChunes said:
I praise players when they play well and criticise them when they play poorly. I'm the normal one in this scenario, you are not.Leuth said:
You've been waiting a long time to get the boot into Coventry like that. Snide little 'pathetic', I see youChunes said:I'll join the chorus that didn't get the team selection either. If we've lost four on the bounce and we're playing a good team, then surely we want to keep it tight and be hard to break down. And he starts Knibbs, Carey and Berry. I don't get it. Whatever way I look at it, it makes no sense. No aspect of that midfield was working. Even Coventry was constantly getting caught wrong side of his man, and his half-hearted tracking back was pathetic.
When we replaced half the midfield we started to have some snap in the middle of the park. And only when Berry went off as well did we actually grow into the game.
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Just heard Nathan's post-match reaction and I don't think he is being honest with himself. Our shape in the first half was not 'good', we were all over the place and hunting shadows. We didn't just 'give the ball away' (although we did) we simply didn't compete, had no midfield and were facing a far superior team and individual players. Gilbert - whom we know - ran 50 yards with the ball unchallenged in the first few minutes and this was a warning signal that our set-up was not correct and Nathan didn't deal with it in the first half. Changes don't always have to be made in the second half. Half-time he did change, especially in midfield, and although still outplayed we actually won the half. Gilbert who ran things in the first half didn't get so much ball and we chased and harried effectively - where was this first half when the game was killed? Why pick Tanto on Saturday and leave him out today? Sorry but starting Berry is giving the game away. TC is still massively underperforming and like a few other players is so easily pushed off the ball - it stuck like glue to their players who were always stronger and were always moving into space giving anyone on the ball loads of time. Nathan seems to suggest that if only the second goal hadn't gone in then it was OK. Technically, he's right but anyone watching that tonight knows he is misguided. I think we will improve when the other players are back - we have to - but tonight the manager, who is a good guy, has to look at himself too.
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Jones got it monumentally wrong in the first half, how many times have we played games this season and started with a weird formation, with players looking lost and then seen Kaminski get injured and the formation change. We can’t keep getting it wrong over and over.
The main issue for me is midfield. It’s pedestrian and far too workman like. We need legs in there, someone to put a tackle in, carry the ball forward and give the opposition something to think about. At the moment whoever plays, in whatever formation we get played round in that area. The amount of space between the midfield and defensive lines in the first half was farcical.
I can’t fathom how we have gone from looking like one of the fittest teams in the division to collectively blowing out of our arses after 30 mins week after week?
The second half it the least I expect of a team - to compete. The first half was men against boys.
Jones has big decisions to make in January imo and the owners have to decide whether they will back him. There are a number of players in the squad who haven’t stepped up and there are glaring gaps in the squad which are being exploited.I really hope Jones can bury this anti-loans stance he seems to have adopted and take a chance with some younger premier league flare players. Will we go back to Chelsea for the forward we tried to sign? Being in the Championship should give us a bigger loan pond to go fishing in.
We need to bring in left sided cover, some dynamism in midfield and a striker who has a bit of X factor and can create a chance for himself and really stretch the opposition back line.
Said it on the match thread but this is turning into a classic Charlton tailspin and could very easily be 6 defeats on the spin after Saturday.
It’s all well and good saying that we have a better run of games coming up, but going into those games 6 defeats on the spin confidence will be rock bottom and the opposition will know that.
Worrying times.12 -
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A lot of blame towards the defence which is make shift at the moment against well established more costly players at this level. Our attacking prowess needs to improve in both hold up play and threat. Every team that has visited this season offers a far better ability to play than we have encountered for years.I was never under the illusion we were great but we were solid but to maintain that level of defence throughout is impossible. We need better solutions up top.
TC has been good for us but he is in a moment of tough times one minute he went past them with ease the next he shirked a massive moment. He needs a rest imo but options are somewhat unproven1 -
Had enough of Campbell can’t see what he is doing to keep getting a game first half in particular he was hopeless. Please try something else NJ, if only to give him a rest.3
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Why is TC still being picked? He has literally done nothing all season. 19 games, 1 assist, no goals...
Bree is not good enough. He had a chance to put in a quick cross in 2nd half and dallied so lost the ball.
Leaburn isn't up to it and all the hype around Carey is starting to unravel too.
I am really worried but we need changes. The second half subs made a real difference. They should start Saturday.1 -
Exactly. It was a pub league finish. Just had to get it on target.Sword65pf said:
As a pro footballer, why is he not trying to hit that low and across the keeper into the bottom corner isn’t that what we are all told to do?BigRedEvil said:Boro the better side but at least we gave it a go second half. And nearly grabbed a point if Oloafe could keep his shot down.0 -
How many goals has Carey scored this season!ForeverAddickted said:
Sorry Prague you don't get it... Its only TC that can be at fault for anything.PragueAddick said:
Not to mention Carey’s lack of care with the ball twice in front of our box, first time he got away with it, does it again a few mins later and bang, goal.ForeverAddickted said:
The break away is on TC, the conceding at his near post is on Kaminski, the letting of the shot away is on GillespheySword65pf said:
He bottled it , they broke away, it didn’t need to happen. It’s on TC.The Red Robin said:
This just isn’t true. Yes, it was a weak effort, he should put more of a foot in and he was one of the players at fault for this goal - but - they are then able to play the length of the pitch unchallenged, Macca gets caught out of position and turned inside out and Kaminski gets beaten at his near post.Sword65pf said:Not much mention of the complete bottle job Campbell in the post match, assume it was discussed lots in the match thread, if he doesn’t bottle it they don’t score. I think Campbell is very lucky there is nobody else NJ trusts in the same position.
Funnily though, no one gives a shit about Kaminski's error or Gillesphey's - If the issue is the fact that TC shouldn't have backed out of the challenge, maybe the fault is with the person who put the cross into him, and so put it into an area where it was too close to the Defender... Hmm?
We are a tolerant fan base, especially to our own, and every player makes mistakes.
The fact is that TC is constantly losing his battles, getting too easily dispocessed, taking the easy option of playing the ball backwards and it's been going on for many many weeks, it wasn't just tonight.
He either lacks confidence or conviction, or both.
That lack of a challenge was inexcusable. If he just gets a touch, he could easily have drawn a penalty.
If he was my player, he'd have been off at HT as punishment. It sends a terrible message to other players that you will accept such a lack of commitment to a challenge.
I've seen no hatred on here aimed at TC.
I've seen people like myself saying for weeks that he's not delivering and that he needs to be rested or maybe used as a sub.
If Jones carries on, he's endangering TC's career and our Championship status.
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Can't help thinking that our best chance of survival exists in the boardroom.
The top teams are destroying us ... we need a cash injection! Come on board you're presently allowing a couple of Hollywood actors to run rings around you. Give us your 'kin money!
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Without Kaminski we'd have been 4 down before that chance even came along. No keeper is going to save everything. Kaminski was already well in credit on the night and was fully committed to the cause.ForeverAddickted said:
I've already said that TC made the mistake that led to the breakaway.Sword65pf said:
So it’s ok for everyone to sing his song when he was doing well, which seems a long time ago now, but not ok to criticise when he’s playing shit.ForeverAddickted said:
Sorry Prague you don't get it... It’s only TC that can be at fault for anything.PragueAddick said:
Not to mention Carey’s lack of care with the ball twice in front of our box, first time he got away with it, does it again a few mins later and bang, goal.ForeverAddickted said:
The break away is on TC, the conceding at his near post is on Kaminski, the letting of the shot away is on GillespheySword65pf said:
He bottled it , they broke away, it didn’t need to happen. It’s on TC.The Red Robin said:
This just isn’t true. Yes, it was a weak effort, he should put more of a foot in and he was one of the players at fault for this goal - but - they are then able to play the length of the pitch unchallenged, Macca gets caught out of position and turned inside out and Kaminski gets beaten at his near post.Sword65pf said:Not much mention of the complete bottle job Campbell in the post match, assume it was discussed lots in the match thread, if he doesn’t bottle it they don’t score. I think Campbell is very lucky there is nobody else NJ trusts in the same position.
Funnily though, no one gives a shit about Kaminski's error or Gillesphey's - If the issue is the fact that TC shouldn't have backed out of the challenge, maybe the fault is with the person who put the cross into him, and so put it into an area where it was too close to the Defender... Hmm?
But you refuse to acknowledge that others made mistakes in the build up to their second goal as well... Its that simple!!
Or do you genuinely think it was acceptable for Kaminski to let a goal in at his near post?
TC was not.
That's the difference5 -
TC rarely gets pushed off the ball. He gets tackled by 2 or even 3 players. Fullah's movement when he came on led to TC having only one marker and he looked more effective straight away.Redshift said:Just heard Nathan's post-match reaction and I don't think he is being honest with himself. Our shape in the first half was not 'good', we were all over the place and hunting shadows. We didn't just 'give the ball away' (although we did) we simply didn't compete, had no midfield and were facing a far superior team and individual players. Gilbert - whom we know - ran 50 yards with the ball unchallenged in the first few minutes and this was a warning signal that our set-up was not correct and Nathan didn't deal with it in the first half. Changes don't always have to be made in the second half. Half-time he did change, especially in midfield, and although still outplayed we actually won the half. Gilbert who ran things in the first half didn't get so much ball and we chased and harried effectively - where was this first half when the game was killed? Why pick Tanto on Saturday and leave him out today? Sorry but starting Berry is giving the game away. TC is still massively underperforming and like a few other players is so easily pushed off the ball - it stuck like glue to their players who were always stronger and were always moving into space giving anyone on the ball loads of time. Nathan seems to suggest that if only the second goal hadn't gone in then it was OK. Technically, he's right but anyone watching that tonight knows he is misguided. I think we will improve when the other players are back - we have to - but tonight the manager, who is a good guy, has to look at himself too.16 -
First half... Heavy first touches. Not quick in the tackle. Too many poor passes to or behind the man, instead of in front of him to run on to. TC's contribution for their second, unfortunately for him, highlighted perfectly why every single ball needs to be competed for and with no hesitation. Boro were slick, able to ping passes around and move up the pitch with relative ease - big gulf in class. Gilbert was impressive, pleased for him his career is kicking on.
Second half.. much better. We won't out-football most opponents in this league. But we can, and need to, out-compete opponents to have success. That happened more often in the second half. But Boro were comfortable, and despite getting a goal back, in reality they had the game won at half time.
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Agreed, that was a baffling team selection, leaving Coventry horribly exposed behind them. When we have a patched up defence, to have such a defensively lightweight midfield against a quality side was bizarre. Tonight was a game where we surely needed to be solid as we could.LargeAddick said:Thought NJ got it wrong from the start and defence was all over the shop, Ramsay not a LB. Least said about the first half the better.
Second half at least we showed some fight and Anderson, Doc, Fullah and Apter all made a difference.
Don't get some of the criticism of Coventry, yes he wasn't great but he was exposed due to NJ starting Knibbs, Carey and Berry which was never going to work.
Not too down, Boro are a decent side but with Oxford, Norwich and Pompey coming up soon we need to be picking up six points from those three games or we are bang in trouble. Also the lower we go the harder it will be to convince quality players to join us.5 -
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After we played the injured goalkeeper trick for the 10th time this season, we can't really complain about the dark arts and gamesmanship...Southendaddick said:Thought we gave it a decent go in the second half but Boro were a class apart so much quicker than us in every way.
And like all good sides capable of the dark arts, how that ref only got 4 mins injury time is beyond me
Lets find a formation that works and grind out some Xmas points, I’d really like to see more of Anderson Fullah and Tanto just for the energy they bring
Carey and Knibbs just don’t work in the same XI
Been a tough few weeks if we can nick a point at Brum to stop the rot that would be a start
Agree 100% about Carey and Knibbs. Carey was a revelation as a 10 at the top of midfield, but every time Knibbs plays, Carey get shunted back into a deeper role where he's far less effective. Then with Berry playing as well, Carey is even further from the goal.
Playing Knibbs has neutralised our best attacking threat.4 -
I'm not normally a worrier but it does bother me that with Kelman and Godden out, we don't have another forward who can play in that system.3
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Accurate passes stats for our midfield are not pretty looking
Karoy Anderson 22/27 (81%)
Greg Docherty 12/19 (63%)
Ibrahim Fullah 11/11 (100%)
Conor Coventry 8/11 (73%)
Sonny Carey 6/9 (67%)
Harvey Knibbs 5/13 (38%)
Luke Berry 2/3 (67%)
Obviously you have to look at the passes themselves but Karoy plays double the passes of anyone who played the first half. Berry attempting 3 passes over 67 is atrocious. For all his faults and times he gives the ball away TC had a pass completion rate of 74%5 -
Because TC runs into dead ends and loses the ball that way. Most of his passes tonight was him running forwards 10 yards, stopping and passing sideways or backwardsfenaddick said:Accurate passes stats for our midfield are not pretty looking
Karoy Anderson 22/27 (81%)
Greg Docherty 12/19 (63%)
Ibrahim Fullah 11/11 (100%)
Conor Coventry 8/11 (73%)
Sonny Carey 6/9 (67%)
Harvey Knibbs 5/13 (38%)
Luke Berry 2/3 (67%)
Obviously you have to look at the passes themselves but Karoy plays double the passes of anyone who played the first half. Berry attempting 3 passes over 67 is atrocious. For all his faults and times he gives the ball away TC had a pass completion rate of 74%1 -
Think its all been said tonight,1st half cost us,2nd half at least we battled for the ball starting with Andersons crunching tackle straight from the off, their man didnt know what hit him as we had barely touched them 1st half. Couldnt help but wonder what if Godden or Kelman had been on the pitch and got the chance Tanto got, it wouldve at least been on target i'd imagine. A word for the officials...dogshit, the only thing the ref got right was stopping play,for the 13th minute applause for Norm,lost count how many times in the 2nd half Leaburn was having his shirt pulled off his back and neither ref or east stand lino gave him anything,when Leaburn remonstrated with him after it happened again i was expecting a booking. Missed what looked a decent shout for a pen, west stand lino kept his flag down for everything it seemed. Lastly, how many times in the 2nd half did he warn their keeper and others for timewasting? Constantly making a big gesture of pointing at his watch but doing bugger all else,still,what with all the subs + all the timewasting surely 6-7 minutes added on? Nope, just the 4, incredible. He wasnt the reason we lost but not for the 1st time this season, the useless officials just make it so much harder to bear.3
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Great tribute to Norm. Well done to everybody involved, especially @BDL, brilliant! Well done to the Boro fans too. Thought they were class.
Awful first half. I thought the only player to come out of that with any real credit was Kaminski. He made a string of saves, without which we could easily have gone in five or six down. Much improved after half time. Add my name to the list of people wanting to see that midfield again. I'm particularly looking forward to the days when we see Fullah getting a full game rather than a cameo. It was sadly too little too late though. TBH, 2-1 is better than I thought we'd do though. It's been a horrible run to have at a time we've had injuries to key players. Here's hoping we can take that second half as inspiration to pull things around.
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Everyone can see NJ got it wrong in the first half, but also Carey, Knibbs and Coventry looked tired/unmotivated. I know they had a lot of ground to cover, but they weren’t running hard enough to close down/get back into position and boro were walking through us. Got on doc and Anderson and they immediately crunched a boro player and set the standard. I, like most of you, have gone through cycles this season of thinking doc needs to be dropped because of his lack of quality, but everytime he’s out of the team our midfield is so exposed, so can we all agree he needs to start every game?
Thought the whole team battled well in the second half, especially Leaburn who won his battles and flicked the ball on(thought it worked v well with Tanto who has the pace and mindset to run in behind all the time, which the rest of the team didn’t). Don’t see the Leaburn hate at all and it’s getting very boring now.
And we all love Gillesphey, but I honestly think whilst he’s playing we’re never going to keep another clean sheet. He gets beaten every time, comes into midfield and doesn’t win the ball and leaves acres of space and looks so out of his depth. Do think Rousillion as outside left center back could be the answer. For Birmingham I’d set up like this
kaminski
ramsey—-jones—-rousillion
Bree—Anderson/cov—doc——tc
——————carey
———-Leaburn—tanto
What got us into this league and gave us our great start wasn’t the ability of the players, but our heart and energy. That’s what will keep us in the division too. Been a bad run of games against some of the best teams in the division and with a big injury crisis but second half showed our fight and desire is still there. UTA2 -
I think the man of the match in the lounge is now a wind up
I present tonight’s winner Gillesphey …..22 -
On the subject of TC......
There was one occasion in the first half where he did brilliantly - took on two defenders on the left wing - got clean by them - then did his usual not looking up and failed to beat the first defender with his low cross. So frustrating!
Sorry FAand others but I have to now conclude that he is never going to be good enough at this level. A L1 winger at best and never a wingback in a million years.3 -
Regardless of the result tonight, there needs to be a lot of reshaping of the squad in January to balance us out again. Certain players like Rankin-Costello, Apter and even Olaofe to a certain extent, don’t seem to have the trust or confidence of Jones, and four ‘Tens’ in the form of Carey, Knibbs, Fullah and Berry feels like one too many when we have our two central midfielders running on fumes.
Not to mention the fact that we have FIVE strikers on the books, two of whom are long term injured and the other three couldn’t hit the proverbial cows arse with the banjo.
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