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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Middlesborough: Tuesday 09th December 2025: KO 19:45
Comments
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I think our centre forwards, whoever they are are on a bit of a hiding to nothing because of the lack of support they get.13
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We won, with Tanto being the lowest rated player on the statbank that game and being taken off after 62 minutes after contributing no goals or assists. TC and Leaburn came on and combined 2 minutes later for a goal though despite being 'total dogshit'. Kelman started that game as well and I don't think there's anyone on here who thinks we don't miss his pressing and industry and would rather have him in there, but that can't be helped.redbuttle said:
What happened when they didn't start at Ipswich?Garrymanilow said:
Everyone does criticise them. Far more than they do Tanto who has the same number of league goals as Leaburn and tends to show why Jones doesn’t usually start him every time he gets a chance. It’s nothing to do with golden boys, it’s the fact that the players who play less become footballing gods while the ones who play are apparently ‘total dogshit’. You swap TC and Tanto for 5 games and you’ll be calling Tanto that instead and asking why TC isn’t getting a gameredbuttle said:
Exactly. If they were both new signings everyone would criticise them. They are both total dogshit.DDOUBLEE said:
This is the point, I'd also love to see TC come on and run at tired defenders more often but unfortunately Tanto hasn't shown enough to justify starting in his place. He also started against Wrexham and was 9th out of 12 (5.95 average) in the stats and was 12th of 13 in his start against Coventry (5.20 average). He had two cup starts as well and one was the debacle against Cambridge. At the moment TC offers more for 60-odd minutes than Tanto does and with Godden and Kelman out we're pretty limited with who else we can play up front. I don't think anyone thinks TC or Leaburn are messiahs, the question is just always who do you play instead, and right now the alternative hasn't shown anything to indicate he can offer more10 -
I'm really confused about the team selection of late!. That must mean their analysis of the opposition has been poor. Why NJ decided to go with a narrow diamond in midfield and a conventional back 4 was baffling!
If you are going with the below midfield, surely you select Anderson and/or Doc instead of Carey and/or Knibbs, if you are going to select Berry as the CAM!
Berry
Carey Knibbs
Coventry
Ok so you play narrow in midfield that's one tactical decision (that he got wrong) and it was sooooo easy for them to play out wide, however, it was also sooooo easy for them to play through us! Which mean he got the team selection wrong as well.
Also I don't understand how Hernandez goes from starting against Portsmouth (whether we should have is irrelevant) to not even being on the bench, so he was either injured or tactical0 -
I accept of course that my comment was driven by gut reaction to the result. I have a vivid, horrible memory of autumn 2019 and especially that evening match at Ashton Gate, which did for us. I accept that the club, at least, is in a much better shape than then.AFKABartram said:
I think we are just excuse hunting tbh. Many clubs have a fair few injuries at the moment.PragueAddick said:So how long is Bell out for now? Kelman? Burke? Allowing ourselves to lose Will Abbott is the most costly mistake of the season.Those out aren’t exactly massive stand outs. What it’s exposed is our squad is not deep enough in quality.We have the smallest wage bill in the league apparently. You’re always going to be exposed in that case
However the legacy of that season was a permanent visible downgrading of the fitness and medical side. Will Abbott came in, it took him a while to fix things, but fix them he did. We got promoted last season with a squad that got fitter and fitter, and with high availability. We had a good pre-season and came out of the stocks looking fitter than the teams we played. But it was always going to be a big ask, keeping that up to meet NJ's expectations through the season. That's why I say we could not easily afford to lose Abbott, and the rather sudden way in which it occurred and the lack of clarity about whether he left for a better offer, or whether he even had an offer, I find unsettling. It jars with the general impression of a club being better managed than for years.
I know that we don't have the depth of quality, although the source for the claim that we have the smallest wage bill in the league is not pukka. I daresay we are about 4th-5th lowest. But things are happening re injuries which we did not see once Abbott got a grip but plagued us in the past; Injuries in training. Players being kept on the pitch and aggravating the injury (Edwards, Bell), brought back too quickly (Bell). Kelman, a mysterious one.
Everyone likes to roll out the truism that if you haven't got the budget, you are forced to gamble on injury-prone players. But that can work if you have a backroom set-up that is competently led and well staffed. It's an investment, that pays off. But it's an investment in human talent just as squad investment is. We invested in Abbott, it paid off, but didn't retain him. That's an HR failure in my book until someone with insight persuades me that it was unavoidable, and that we have replaced him with someone equally skilled.13 -
Very much this.Valley Ant said:
Still love them all..... COYA
Whether we like it or not we are still pretty much a league one side battling in the championship. And despite this horrible run of results I do believe we are battling and I’m thankful. I think there are positives to take from last night. I’m not saying that ‘boro were “there for the taking” but with a bit more luck it could have been a different result. Very pissed off we totally switched off for the second goal.
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Very surprised to see the team selection, much better 2nd half but I do think Boro went down a few gears that's why. 2nd goal was poor to concead, tough run of games now over and I think we now will pick up points again.0
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Yes TC bottled that challenge before the 2nd goal, but worth reminding everyone that he stayed on the pitch because he was playing left wing back, a position where we are horrendously short at. Not his natural position, but he did ok there in the second half.
The biggest failing of the first half was the team selection, which is down to NJ. There was a massive hole in midfield as Coventry was left on his own to patrol acres of space instead of the usual 2 with Docherty. Watching the second goal again, there are acres of space when Boro break, with Gillesphey out of position trying to cover this hole in midfield and failing to get back to challenge Whittaker.
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As some others have mentioned, it's extremely worrying that the energy and fitness levels that the team has enjoyed for the past 12 months - and has been the key factor in the success of the team during that time - appears to be evaporating. Coventry may have been taken off at half time because of the yellow card, but frankly he looked knackered after 45 minutes of chasing shadows, and he's been our fittest player!
This drop in energy has been compounded by the injuries to players brought in during the summer window. NJ has been forced to try and fit square pegs into round holes in the past three or four games and recent results against seasoned, in form Championship sides, has also meant confidence and morale is seeping away.
Young players such as TC and Miles are being thrown into the starting front line every week and are being bossed by experienced defenders. The frantic festive period could be nasty so let's look to January. Could there be a recall of one of our young forwards? I hope not. Let them continue to prosper and develop in the lower leagues. Come the window, the club don't need to spend big but they do need to invest wisely. Names have been mentioned on these pages and it would be brilliant to pick up a Godden type of forward who might come in with the experience and craft to change it a bit up front.
Of the players on show last night Anderson continues to show his potential. He has always been tenacious and a strong tackler. But last season the ball appeared to bounce off him randomly. He appears to be improving his control and (most of his) passing and deserves a start. Apter came on and did what Apter does best, running at this full back and getting in a decisive cross. And young Fullah continues to excite although I'm not sure what position he prefers to play in. So fingers cross for January.
A word on Middlesbrough, whose team and supporters did them proud (and, although I have always disliked their home shirts, always play in very smart away kits). They play fluent, controlled football (with Mr Gilbert at the heart of it) and are purring at the moment (they crushed Hull last week). Don't know if they will finally achieve promotion this season but they should definitely be there or thereabouts at the end of the season.10 -
The reason Gilbert looked good is he is playing in a team that plays fluent football, something that NJ's teams don't, he was never going to excel with us knocking long diagonal 40 yard balls, bypassing the midfield.8
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Boro passed rings around us in the first half and cut through us almost at will. If not for a couple of big saves from Kaminski, we could easily have gone in four down at HT. We didn’t help ourselves either — constantly hauling down their players for cheap fouls, sloppy passing, and repeatedly gifting them the ball invited pressure we couldn’t handle.
We improved after the break, though it’s hard to tell whether that was down to NJ’s changes or Boro easing off. Aside from one strong save from their keeper, we never put together a sustained spell of pressure, and they were even kind enough to score our only goal for us. In truth, they saw it out comfortably.
It’s been a brutal run of fixtures, and it’s tough watching sides keep 70% possession while we’re left trying to create something from scraps. We desperately need to find points against Pompey and Oxford to stop the season sliding into freefall.
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As against Southampton we left our opponents in acres of space - if they knocked the ball out wide we continually failed to pick up the wide player. Our Wing Backs seem to provide little cover.
I'm unclear if players are not following instructions or simply have zero awareness of positioning.
Not clear how this will be fixed - seems inevitable we will keep shipping cheap goals.1 -
Third option, the instructions are wronghoof_it_up_to_benty said:As against Southampton we left our opponents in acres of space - if they knocked the ball out wide we continually failed to pick up the wide player. Our Wing Backs seem to provide little cover.
I'm unclear if players are not following instructions or simply have zero awareness of positioning.
Not clear how this will be fixed - seems inevitable we will keep shipping cheap goals.2 -
hoof_it_up_to_benty said:As against Southampton we left our opponents in acres of space - if they knocked the ball out wide we continually failed to pick up the wide player. Our Wing Backs seem to provide little cover.
I'm unclear if players are not following instructions or simply have zero awareness of positioning.
Not clear how this will be fixed - seems inevitable we will keep shipping cheap goals.
Compounded with the fact that are forward line are not scoring goals, a recipe for disaster.
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All the noise about tactics, formations and so on are pointless - the bottom line is that our squad is neither deep enough or strong enough to thrive in this league. Boro are a superb side and I doubt any of our starting line up would get into their team. Same applies to Southampton and Coventry who beat us the other week. The injuries has really hurt us, but the squad is not good enough.
If we stay up [and that is a big if] then we will. need a massive shake up in the summer6 -
Your last bit there is the point. At the moment, if we take TC out we will be worse. When we have our full team then yes you can take him out (though that Ipswich first half we were absolutely terrible)queensland_addick said:
With respect, how do we know that, when Jones refuses to drop him?NabySarr said:
Even those like myself that like TC would probably agree he’s playing too many minutes at the moment. It’s why his performances have dropped off, he’s knackered and playing 90 every game is not doing him any goodqueensland_addick said:
Criticise him all you want. I'll criticise him for not covering his near post, but that doesn't excuse TC.ForeverAddickted said:
So have a good game, but make a mistake that leads to us conceding and you're immune from criticism?queensland_addick said:
Without Kaminski we'd have been 4 down before that chance even came along. No keeper is going to save everything. Kaminski was already well in credit on the night and was fully committed to the cause.ForeverAddickted said:
I've already said that TC made the mistake that led to the breakaway.Sword65pf said:
So it’s ok for everyone to sing his song when he was doing well, which seems a long time ago now, but not ok to criticise when he’s playing shit.ForeverAddickted said:
Sorry Prague you don't get it... It’s only TC that can be at fault for anything.PragueAddick said:
Not to mention Carey’s lack of care with the ball twice in front of our box, first time he got away with it, does it again a few mins later and bang, goal.ForeverAddickted said:
The break away is on TC, the conceding at his near post is on Kaminski, the letting of the shot away is on GillespheySword65pf said:
He bottled it , they broke away, it didn’t need to happen. It’s on TC.The Red Robin said:
This just isn’t true. Yes, it was a weak effort, he should put more of a foot in and he was one of the players at fault for this goal - but - they are then able to play the length of the pitch unchallenged, Macca gets caught out of position and turned inside out and Kaminski gets beaten at his near post.Sword65pf said:Not much mention of the complete bottle job Campbell in the post match, assume it was discussed lots in the match thread, if he doesn’t bottle it they don’t score. I think Campbell is very lucky there is nobody else NJ trusts in the same position.
Funnily though, no one gives a shit about Kaminski's error or Gillesphey's - If the issue is the fact that TC shouldn't have backed out of the challenge, maybe the fault is with the person who put the cross into him, and so put it into an area where it was too close to the Defender... Hmm?
But you refuse to acknowledge that others made mistakes in the build up to their second goal as well... Its that simple!!
Or do you genuinely think it was acceptable for Kaminski to let a goal in at his near post?
TC was not.
That's the difference
You're right Kaminski did keep us at 0-0, and should be commended for that... But he's also part of the reason why we went 0-2 down, so should be criticised for that, especially as it was a shot at his near post.
Kaminski was in a one on one situation with a forward who had scored 4 in his last 4 games, baring down on him from about 10 yards out. Whether he went near post, across Kaminski into the far corner, or high into the roof of the net, the odds were against Kaminski preventing a goal.
Kaminski tried his best, TC bottled it, and not for the first time.
He rarely puts in a tackle, he can't head the ball, yes he's very quick and can beat his man occasionally, but it rarely ends in anything meaningful.
He has three assists all season, and one of those, the ball was out of play. That is not good enough. He either needs to be rested or work hard to iron out the faults in his game.
The problem is if you take him out of the team we’d be even worse. Even in the first half where TC didn’t play well, the only way we got up the pitch was by getting the ball to him. That’s why he’s always left on the pitch, because no one else in our squad can do that. Without him we’d be stuck in our own half struggling to get out even more than we are nowIf we had a replacement for him then I’d agree he should come out of the team, but Hernandez is the only similar player that can play there and he’s shit. Apter looked bright so I’d play with 2 wingers, playing TC at wing back isn’t doing him or the team any good
As a matter of fact, let's look at the one time he was actually left out of the starting line up.
We achieved our best result of the season winning 3 nil at Ipswich when both he and Leaburn were far more effective coming off the subs bench.
Granted we had Bell that day, but it does prove that it isn't essential that TC has to start every single game.
If we had an actual LWB to play, then if TC isn’t playing we still have something on that side. If Ramsay is playing left back he won’t be getting forward, and if he does he won’t be effective as he’s not used to playing on that side. So with no Bell and Edwards, we almost have to play TC as otherwise we would have nothing on the left and be very easy to defend against
You could maybe put Fullah, Knibbs or Carey out there but I’m really not sure any of them would be effective from the start in that position, they are all better centrally0 -
If we were in League One playing Doncaster, who’ve just come up from the league below, and are currently in a similar position to us, and after the game you overheard their fans calling their players dogshit because they’d just lost to us, Cardiff, Lincoln and Stockport respectively, you’d be thinking ’what a bunch of unrealistic, ungrateful, unkind ********
There are too many people on here like that.8 -
This line gets trotted out each week but Apter had an assist with 2 mins of being on, Tanto broke through multiple times and Fullah drew the keeper into save. TC was in no way our most dangerous outlet last night, it's crazy to suggest he was.Southendaddick said:Loving the anti TC agenda on here
The ball wouldn’t come down to him on the edge of their box he could have done better but the fella ran the length of the pitch pinged a few passes and the keeper made yet another error and it’s 2-0
But keep blaming TC who yet again looked our most dangerous outlet, there’s a reason NJ always picks him
I would have TC over Leaburn every single week, now there’s a bloke that’s gone up a level too far, how many aimless headers last night….TC and Tanto has looked far and away our best partnership lately.20 -
We could perhaps concentrate on attacking down the right flank instead via Apter, whilst just trying to remain solid on the left.NabySarr said:
Your last bit there is the point. At the moment, if we take TC out we will be worse. When we have our full team then yes you can take him out (though that Ipswich first half we were absolutely terrible)queensland_addick said:
With respect, how do we know that, when Jones refuses to drop him?NabySarr said:
Even those like myself that like TC would probably agree he’s playing too many minutes at the moment. It’s why his performances have dropped off, he’s knackered and playing 90 every game is not doing him any goodqueensland_addick said:
Criticise him all you want. I'll criticise him for not covering his near post, but that doesn't excuse TC.ForeverAddickted said:
So have a good game, but make a mistake that leads to us conceding and you're immune from criticism?queensland_addick said:
Without Kaminski we'd have been 4 down before that chance even came along. No keeper is going to save everything. Kaminski was already well in credit on the night and was fully committed to the cause.ForeverAddickted said:
I've already said that TC made the mistake that led to the breakaway.Sword65pf said:
So it’s ok for everyone to sing his song when he was doing well, which seems a long time ago now, but not ok to criticise when he’s playing shit.ForeverAddickted said:
Sorry Prague you don't get it... It’s only TC that can be at fault for anything.PragueAddick said:
Not to mention Carey’s lack of care with the ball twice in front of our box, first time he got away with it, does it again a few mins later and bang, goal.ForeverAddickted said:
The break away is on TC, the conceding at his near post is on Kaminski, the letting of the shot away is on GillespheySword65pf said:
He bottled it , they broke away, it didn’t need to happen. It’s on TC.The Red Robin said:
This just isn’t true. Yes, it was a weak effort, he should put more of a foot in and he was one of the players at fault for this goal - but - they are then able to play the length of the pitch unchallenged, Macca gets caught out of position and turned inside out and Kaminski gets beaten at his near post.Sword65pf said:Not much mention of the complete bottle job Campbell in the post match, assume it was discussed lots in the match thread, if he doesn’t bottle it they don’t score. I think Campbell is very lucky there is nobody else NJ trusts in the same position.
Funnily though, no one gives a shit about Kaminski's error or Gillesphey's - If the issue is the fact that TC shouldn't have backed out of the challenge, maybe the fault is with the person who put the cross into him, and so put it into an area where it was too close to the Defender... Hmm?
But you refuse to acknowledge that others made mistakes in the build up to their second goal as well... Its that simple!!
Or do you genuinely think it was acceptable for Kaminski to let a goal in at his near post?
TC was not.
That's the difference
You're right Kaminski did keep us at 0-0, and should be commended for that... But he's also part of the reason why we went 0-2 down, so should be criticised for that, especially as it was a shot at his near post.
Kaminski was in a one on one situation with a forward who had scored 4 in his last 4 games, baring down on him from about 10 yards out. Whether he went near post, across Kaminski into the far corner, or high into the roof of the net, the odds were against Kaminski preventing a goal.
Kaminski tried his best, TC bottled it, and not for the first time.
He rarely puts in a tackle, he can't head the ball, yes he's very quick and can beat his man occasionally, but it rarely ends in anything meaningful.
He has three assists all season, and one of those, the ball was out of play. That is not good enough. He either needs to be rested or work hard to iron out the faults in his game.
The problem is if you take him out of the team we’d be even worse. Even in the first half where TC didn’t play well, the only way we got up the pitch was by getting the ball to him. That’s why he’s always left on the pitch, because no one else in our squad can do that. Without him we’d be stuck in our own half struggling to get out even more than we are nowIf we had a replacement for him then I’d agree he should come out of the team, but Hernandez is the only similar player that can play there and he’s shit. Apter looked bright so I’d play with 2 wingers, playing TC at wing back isn’t doing him or the team any good
As a matter of fact, let's look at the one time he was actually left out of the starting line up.
We achieved our best result of the season winning 3 nil at Ipswich when both he and Leaburn were far more effective coming off the subs bench.
Granted we had Bell that day, but it does prove that it isn't essential that TC has to start every single game.
If we had an actual LWB to play, then if TC isn’t playing we still have something on that side. If Ramsay is playing left back he won’t be getting forward, and if he does he won’t be effective as he’s not used to playing on that side. So with no Bell and Edwards, we almost have to play TC as otherwise we would have nothing on the left and be very easy to defend against
You could maybe put Fullah, Knibbs or Carey out there but I’m really not sure any of them would be effective from the start in that position, they are all better centrally
Maybe Doc could play on the left side of midfield. At least he tackles and tracks back.
We need to find a solution and quickly, because unfortunately I can't see Bell or Edwards returning any time soon.0 -
Swapped message with my Boro mate this morning, after having a few beers with him and a lot of old faces in the Rose of Denmark before the game last night. He reckons that first half was the best he’s seen from Boro in a very long time.I think we do need perspective here. We’re on a bad run at the moment, during a bit of an injury crisis as we went through last year around the same time. We’ve shown that we can compete in this league and I must admit that I’d hoped that our summer signings would protect us more from the inevitable injuries, but we’re losing too many people in key areas to not be affected. We have a few people who seem to have forgotten where we have been for the last decade. We’re years and many millions of pounds of investment behind the majority of the Championship and it’s going to take time to catch up.
I do think though, like last year, that Nathan is too set in his ways until something happens to make him change. At the moment, it seems to be persisting with TC who, it seems, can’t even be subbed let alone dropped. The lad will come again, but at the moment he isn’t scoring, assisting, or actually challenging for balls and he needs a rest.8 -
The fightback came way before own goal. I thought we showed spirit in the second half. More of the same please.SELR_addicks said:Did someone genuinely claim that Middlesbrough are an ex-Premier League team?
Yeah maybe 9 years ago.
Another poor performance with a bit of a fightback thanks to an own goal in the last 10 mins.
On current form can't see the Birmingham game going much better.‘Current form’ is based on a weakened side playing the strongest sides in the Championship, so it’s important to bear that in mind and not get too down. Mind you, we were possibly getting a bit carried away after our good start to the season.I do think a couple of new recruits in January wouldn’t go amiss.8 -
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We were always going to lose games, had they come with a win or a draw in between a couple I doubt people would bat an eye. We ar pinching above our weight atm and need to attempt to survive and stabilise, we’re in a good spot to do that. Just keep picking up points from the teams around us and we will be alright4
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Think we need to hang on to the fact this bad run has coincided with injuries to some really important players for us, we may have picked up more pts we may not have, don’t think the club are panicking yet so maybe we need to keep our powder dry and be patient, we were desperate to be in the champ so let’s enjoy the ride, good and bad. I think we’ll be ok.5
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Not sure about that. Any keeper letting in three of those shots that Kaminsky saved would find himself out of a job.Croydon said:Injuries continue to hamper us but a truly bizarre set up at the start. Allowed them so much space throughout the first half and without kaminski it could have been 5 at HT.
The youngsters added some effort second half but Karoy, Mullah and Olaofe all lack the quality required at this level.
It's a thin squad which is now heavily reliant on players who we all knew weren't going to be good enough at this level.1 -
There are a lot of comments about TC, some are fair and some harsh. The problem we have is we currently have CB's that just are not good enough. We CANNOT currently play 4 at the back with the current defenders we have (That is probably including the players out injured as well) purely because of pace and mobility. This means we have to shove our quick attacking players as wingbacks. Once they are out of position, which is only natural, we scapegoat them as they are not able to get back in time and defend (Apter getting subbed off in the first half).
Its a bit of a pointless moan as nothing will be done, but we really need to upgrade so we can push Apter and TC up the pitch. I would love for us to play 4231 or 433 but we just cant with current defenders.
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Apter would then face the same problem TC does every game, the opposition would simply double up on him every time he got the ball and he’d be mostly ineffective. We need threat from both sides or we will be far too easy to defend againstqueensland_addick said:
We could perhaps concentrate on attacking down the right flank instead via Apter, whilst just trying to remain solid on the left.NabySarr said:
Your last bit there is the point. At the moment, if we take TC out we will be worse. When we have our full team then yes you can take him out (though that Ipswich first half we were absolutely terrible)queensland_addick said:
With respect, how do we know that, when Jones refuses to drop him?NabySarr said:
Even those like myself that like TC would probably agree he’s playing too many minutes at the moment. It’s why his performances have dropped off, he’s knackered and playing 90 every game is not doing him any goodqueensland_addick said:
Criticise him all you want. I'll criticise him for not covering his near post, but that doesn't excuse TC.ForeverAddickted said:
So have a good game, but make a mistake that leads to us conceding and you're immune from criticism?queensland_addick said:
Without Kaminski we'd have been 4 down before that chance even came along. No keeper is going to save everything. Kaminski was already well in credit on the night and was fully committed to the cause.ForeverAddickted said:
I've already said that TC made the mistake that led to the breakaway.Sword65pf said:
So it’s ok for everyone to sing his song when he was doing well, which seems a long time ago now, but not ok to criticise when he’s playing shit.ForeverAddickted said:
Sorry Prague you don't get it... It’s only TC that can be at fault for anything.PragueAddick said:
Not to mention Carey’s lack of care with the ball twice in front of our box, first time he got away with it, does it again a few mins later and bang, goal.ForeverAddickted said:
The break away is on TC, the conceding at his near post is on Kaminski, the letting of the shot away is on GillespheySword65pf said:
He bottled it , they broke away, it didn’t need to happen. It’s on TC.The Red Robin said:
This just isn’t true. Yes, it was a weak effort, he should put more of a foot in and he was one of the players at fault for this goal - but - they are then able to play the length of the pitch unchallenged, Macca gets caught out of position and turned inside out and Kaminski gets beaten at his near post.Sword65pf said:Not much mention of the complete bottle job Campbell in the post match, assume it was discussed lots in the match thread, if he doesn’t bottle it they don’t score. I think Campbell is very lucky there is nobody else NJ trusts in the same position.
Funnily though, no one gives a shit about Kaminski's error or Gillesphey's - If the issue is the fact that TC shouldn't have backed out of the challenge, maybe the fault is with the person who put the cross into him, and so put it into an area where it was too close to the Defender... Hmm?
But you refuse to acknowledge that others made mistakes in the build up to their second goal as well... Its that simple!!
Or do you genuinely think it was acceptable for Kaminski to let a goal in at his near post?
TC was not.
That's the difference
You're right Kaminski did keep us at 0-0, and should be commended for that... But he's also part of the reason why we went 0-2 down, so should be criticised for that, especially as it was a shot at his near post.
Kaminski was in a one on one situation with a forward who had scored 4 in his last 4 games, baring down on him from about 10 yards out. Whether he went near post, across Kaminski into the far corner, or high into the roof of the net, the odds were against Kaminski preventing a goal.
Kaminski tried his best, TC bottled it, and not for the first time.
He rarely puts in a tackle, he can't head the ball, yes he's very quick and can beat his man occasionally, but it rarely ends in anything meaningful.
He has three assists all season, and one of those, the ball was out of play. That is not good enough. He either needs to be rested or work hard to iron out the faults in his game.
The problem is if you take him out of the team we’d be even worse. Even in the first half where TC didn’t play well, the only way we got up the pitch was by getting the ball to him. That’s why he’s always left on the pitch, because no one else in our squad can do that. Without him we’d be stuck in our own half struggling to get out even more than we are nowIf we had a replacement for him then I’d agree he should come out of the team, but Hernandez is the only similar player that can play there and he’s shit. Apter looked bright so I’d play with 2 wingers, playing TC at wing back isn’t doing him or the team any good
As a matter of fact, let's look at the one time he was actually left out of the starting line up.
We achieved our best result of the season winning 3 nil at Ipswich when both he and Leaburn were far more effective coming off the subs bench.
Granted we had Bell that day, but it does prove that it isn't essential that TC has to start every single game.
If we had an actual LWB to play, then if TC isn’t playing we still have something on that side. If Ramsay is playing left back he won’t be getting forward, and if he does he won’t be effective as he’s not used to playing on that side. So with no Bell and Edwards, we almost have to play TC as otherwise we would have nothing on the left and be very easy to defend against
You could maybe put Fullah, Knibbs or Carey out there but I’m really not sure any of them would be effective from the start in that position, they are all better centrally
Maybe Doc could play on the left side of midfield. At least he tackles and tracks back.
We need to find a solution and quickly, because unfortunately I can't see Bell or Edwards returning any time soon.Like last season when we had Small and TC, we now need Apter and TC to both play. If we move the ball well enough from one side to the other then we should be able to get them 1v1 which is when they are at their best3 -
First of all, Boro look a very good side, they will probably get to enjoy a promotion season or play-offs at least.
As for us, we are bang in trouble. The way I see it, we either go down this season, or we are down the next, unless some serious cash is injected.
We can't get away with this much low quality/league 1 players. The only reason why we are outside the relegation zone, is other clubs being more woeful and a lifeline in Sheffield Wednesday.
The owners need to make a decision in January on what they want to do. They'll either have to break the bank to stay up this season, or if we fortunately stay up, in the summer. The 3 teams who come down from the prem will be a lot better than the sides who go up this year, and if it's the likes of Cardiff, Bolton and Stockport who come up, they won't exactly be easy points either.
Invest, or go down, plain and simple.9 -
I don't see a win in sight, we look absolutely horrific and have done since Hull away imo.
Our forwards infuriate me, they would struggle in League 1 nevermind this league, our midfielders are extremely average, our defensive shape is pure patch work. We are desperate for some left sided defenders.
It won't happen, but if I was Jones, I would try something like this:
Anderson for his energy and to protect Macca on the left and give Fullah freedom, Tanto to lead the line as he's the only forward with a set of bollocks, get Carey and Apter playing together again as they have a good understanding.
Back to basics, keep it tight, try and get the ball to Apter and Fullah to provide Carey and Tanto. Keep Leaburn and TC as far away from the squad as possible until they learn how to put in a shift (sorry lads)
We can't persist with what is going on, it would be madness. We look absolutely atrocious. Only looked decent for ten mins as Apter, Fullah and Anderson came on, who all looked lively, and Boro took the gas off a bit.7 -
I know it’s due to injuries, but for as long as we are proactively trying to cover Gillesphey with anyone we have a problem. The loss of Edward’s in particular has stuffed us big time .Braziliance said:I don't see a win in sight, we look absolutely horrific and have done since Hull away imo.
Our forwards infuriate me, they would struggle in League 1 nevermind this league, our midfielders are extremely average, our defensive shape is pure patch work. We are desperate for some left sided defenders.
It won't happen, but if I was Jones, I would try something like this:
Anderson for his energy and to protect Macca on the left and give Fullah freedom, Tanto to lead the line as he's the only forward with a set of bollocks, get Carey and Apter playing together again as they have a good understanding.
Back to basics, keep it tight, try and get the ball to Apter and Fullah to provide Carey and Tanto. Keep Leaburn and TC as far away from the squad as possible until they learn how to put in a shift (sorry lads)
We can't persist with what is going on, it would be madness. We look absolutely atrocious. Only looked decent for ten mins as Apter, Fullah and Anderson came on, who all looked lively, and Boro took the gas off a bit.7 -
Not much mention of the pen shout on Berry, looked stonewall from where I was sitting.5
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Morgan Whittaker didn’t score his first goal for Boro until 10 months after signing for them and he was getting the same criticism from Middlesbrough fans - lightweight, useless, flatters to deceive, etc.CharltonManor1966 said:
And in all that time 0 goals and 2 assists........NabySarr said:
Fair enough people have the view he needs to come out of the team, I’d share that view if we had anyone else to come in for himCharltonManor1966 said:On the subject of TC......
There was one occasion in the first half where he did brilliantly - took on two defenders on the left wing - got clean by them - then did his usual not looking up and failed to beat the first defender with his low cross. So frustrating!
Sorry FAand others but I have to now conclude that he is never going to be good enough at this level. A L1 winger at best and never a wingback in a million years.But this last bit is just a mental thing to say, he’s 22 for Christ’s sake he’s got years of development even if you don’t think he’s good enough now at this level, to write him off completely is just silly. Some people have really got it in for TC which isn’t nice to see
When we had our full team and he wasn’t having to fill in at wing back, he was playing in the championship for a team 6th in the league. Not sure that would be possible for a player that was never going to be good enough at this level
Whittaker had 0g/3a in his first 24 appearances.Now he’s scored 5 in 5 - his output is catching up with how dangerous of a player he actually is.
I still have no doubt similar will happen to TC.3
