POST-MATCH THREAD: Norwich City v Charlton Athletic: Boxing Day 2025: KO 15:00

jose

Just got home from Norwich, tired and pissed off. I don't know the perspective of those who watched the stream, and have no idea about any reaction post match.
My main thought is that it was a mirror image of the Oxford game, but the wrong way.

Carter

Just got home, Norwich were shit apart from that big fucker up front who gave Jones and Gillesphey loads of trouble. We managed to be more shit. My only guess is a load of then are ill as we had zero intensity about us today. Fans were quiet too, both sets of supporters

gmantaxi

Ilovelondontown said:

gmantaxi said:

If you’re Apter watching Brees performance today and you still can’t get a start …. What’s the point of him being here ! 

Trouble is Apter is not doing himself any favours, standing out wide waiting for god knows what, not wanting the ball or playing with any real motivation you can see exactly why he’s not being picked? For the record I like apter!!

He rarely gets a chance though tbh 

The Red Robin

Sword65pf said:

We really do seem to be missing that cultured ball playing forward  thinking midfielder that can control games, if there were that player available, do people think NJ would adjust and use him? I’m not certain he would, which concerns me a bit. This isn’t an NJ out thing but do wonder if he might have to adapt. We just don’t give our strikers the best chance of being successful, for example miles Leaburn against Oxford was really good but didn’t do much in front of goal as I remember. I feel like our strikers are having to create and score for themselves. 

No. Jones isn’t interested in keeping possession. It’s not the way he wants to play. That’s fine, if there’s a plan when you win possession high up. We don’t have one a lot of the time. 

Diebythesword

Thought we looked decent with a great press in the first half that Norwich couldnt handle until bell and then leaburn got taken off and it went from bad to worse. TC has applied himself well during the criticism of the last couple of months but today he looked like he couldn’t be bothered and bottled a couple of challenges and headers (at one point completely refused to even go for the ball in the air) Felt like he was taking advantage of jones not being on the touchline screaming. 

We basically offered nothing all game despite winning possession regularly in the final third. Just not good enough, owners need to dip their hands in their pocket in Jan to really guarantee us staying up. 

The Red Robin

Diebythesword said:

Thought we looked decent with a great press in the first half that Norwich couldnt handle until bell and then leaburn got taken off and it went from bad to worse. TC has applied himself well during the criticism of the last couple of months but today he looked like he couldn’t be bothered and bottled a couple of challenges and headers (at one point completely refused to even go for the ball in the air) Felt like he was taking advantage of jones not being on the touchline screaming. 

We basically offered nothing all game despite winning possession regularly in the final third. Just not good enough, owners need to dip their hands in their pocket in Jan to really guarantee us staying up. 

Agree with the press first half but harsh to say TC couldn’t be bothered when he was responsible for anything remotely threatening in attack. 

panther10

If anybody who  thinks we will win again at fratton park ..... not a chance after that pathectic showing today ..  and flemimg copying nathans quotes again pathectic 

Crispywood

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

We really do seem to be missing that cultured ball playing forward  thinking midfielder that can control games, if there were that player available, do people think NJ would adjust and use him? I’m not certain he would, which concerns me a bit. This isn’t an NJ out thing but do wonder if he might have to adapt. We just don’t give our strikers the best chance of being successful, for example miles Leaburn against Oxford was really good but didn’t do much in front of goal as I remember. I feel like our strikers are having to create and score for themselves. 

No. Jones isn’t interested in keeping possession. It’s not the way he wants to play. That’s fine, if there’s a plan when you win possession high up. We don’t have one a lot of the time. 

Our system doesn’t require a playmaker but we definitely could do with a better CM than Docherty or Anderson 

The Red Robin

Crispywood said:

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

We really do seem to be missing that cultured ball playing forward  thinking midfielder that can control games, if there were that player available, do people think NJ would adjust and use him? I’m not certain he would, which concerns me a bit. This isn’t an NJ out thing but do wonder if he might have to adapt. We just don’t give our strikers the best chance of being successful, for example miles Leaburn against Oxford was really good but didn’t do much in front of goal as I remember. I feel like our strikers are having to create and score for themselves. 

No. Jones isn’t interested in keeping possession. It’s not the way he wants to play. That’s fine, if there’s a plan when you win possession high up. We don’t have one a lot of the time. 

Our system doesn’t require a playmaker but we definitely could do with a better CM than Docherty or Anderson 

Agreed. It may not require a playmaker but it does require someone advanced that can play killer balls when we win possession in the final third. We do not have that in this squad at all. We also don’t have intelligent or mobile enough forwards to play infront of a player like that. 

Sword65pf

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

We really do seem to be missing that cultured ball playing forward  thinking midfielder that can control games, if there were that player available, do people think NJ would adjust and use him? I’m not certain he would, which concerns me a bit. This isn’t an NJ out thing but do wonder if he might have to adapt. We just don’t give our strikers the best chance of being successful, for example miles Leaburn against Oxford was really good but didn’t do much in front of goal as I remember. I feel like our strikers are having to create and score for themselves. 

No. Jones isn’t interested in keeping possession. It’s not the way he wants to play. That’s fine, if there’s a plan when you whom possession high up. We don’t have one a lot of the time. 

My point is more that we don’t have anyone that worries other sides to maybe consider man marking, TC isn’t that player as he doesn’t have the quality on the ball, I don’t mind not having the ball all the time, but for whatever time we have it, we need someone with the quality to knit things together, most teams have at least one of those players, for example and I’m saying these players because I didn’t know them that much, Eom for Swansea, Mehmeti for Bristol city and various others.we don’t have that.

eastterrace6168

Things will change Monday, they have to, Nathan will have them sorted or we will be right back in the brown stuff before we know it.
Nathan is back on the touchline Monday night, and we have to trust that he will get this right, he simply has too, we can not have a repeat of today...

The Red Robin

Sword65pf said:

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

We really do seem to be missing that cultured ball playing forward  thinking midfielder that can control games, if there were that player available, do people think NJ would adjust and use him? I’m not certain he would, which concerns me a bit. This isn’t an NJ out thing but do wonder if he might have to adapt. We just don’t give our strikers the best chance of being successful, for example miles Leaburn against Oxford was really good but didn’t do much in front of goal as I remember. I feel like our strikers are having to create and score for themselves. 

No. Jones isn’t interested in keeping possession. It’s not the way he wants to play. That’s fine, if there’s a plan when you whom possession high up. We don’t have one a lot of the time. 

My point is more that we don’t have anyone that worries other sides to maybe consider man marking, TC isn’t that player as he doesn’t have the quality on the ball, I don’t mind not having the ball all the time, but for whatever time we have it, we need someone with the quality to knit things together, most teams have at least one of those players, for example and I’m saying these players because I didn’t know them that much, Eom for Swansea, Mehmeti for Bristol city and various others.we don’t have that.

I think we’re agreeing. You’re spot on. Just someone who can turn quickly during a transition and get those quick, killer, incisive passes into our forwards. But look at today - we win the ball in the final third and then it’s just so slow. The players don’t know what to do upon winning possession. Why is that? Their ability and intelligence or coaching? Or both? 

oohaahmortimer

fenaddick said:

Rob said:

The on field decisions today were being made by Curtis Fleming right? I’m not sure why Nathan Jones is being blamed for the result. The 1st substitution still baffles me. I’m not sure Jones would have done that. It completely changed the game.

Jones was on the phone to the bench the whole time 

yep cos the headset that he was trying to use didn't work ... farcical 

Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch

Curtis Fleming made a post-match comment about not being up to speed that NJ was suspended today.

It caught my attention that he should make such a comment.

I'm hoping nothing daft happened today like he/we only realised upon arrival at the ground. But it was clearly later than would have been ideal.

Probably nothing in it.

2121

eastterrace6168 said:

Things will change Monday, they have to, Nathan will have them sorted or we will be right back in the brown stuff before we know it.
Nathan is back on the touchline Monday night, and we have to trust that he will get this right, he simply has too, we can not have a repeat of today...

I think this is his moment to bring back tc kelman combo from the off. 

The Red Robin

2121 said:

eastterrace6168 said:

Things will change Monday, they have to, Nathan will have them sorted or we will be right back in the brown stuff before we know it.
Nathan is back on the touchline Monday night, and we have to trust that he will get this right, he simply has too, we can not have a repeat of today...

I think this is his moment to bring back tc kelman combo from the off. 

Team selection alone will tell us if he’s trying to win the game or plan only for a smash n grab.

soapy_jones

As I said before the abandoned game, we are Pompeys bogey team. If we get nothing on Monday night the omens look threatening and our chances of staying up stark indeed.

NJ is still in credit with me, I just want to see effort.

Sword65pf

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

We really do seem to be missing that cultured ball playing forward  thinking midfielder that can control games, if there were that player available, do people think NJ would adjust and use him? I’m not certain he would, which concerns me a bit. This isn’t an NJ out thing but do wonder if he might have to adapt. We just don’t give our strikers the best chance of being successful, for example miles Leaburn against Oxford was really good but didn’t do much in front of goal as I remember. I feel like our strikers are having to create and score for themselves. 

No. Jones isn’t interested in keeping possession. It’s not the way he wants to play. That’s fine, if there’s a plan when you whom possession high up. We don’t have one a lot of the time. 

My point is more that we don’t have anyone that worries other sides to maybe consider man marking, TC isn’t that player as he doesn’t have the quality on the ball, I don’t mind not having the ball all the time, but for whatever time we have it, we need someone with the quality to knit things together, most teams have at least one of those players, for example and I’m saying these players because I didn’t know them that much, Eom for Swansea, Mehmeti for Bristol city and various others.we don’t have that.

I think we’re agreeing. You’re spot on. Just someone who can turn quickly during a transition and get those quick, killer, incisive passes into our forwards. But look at today - we win the ball in the final third and then it’s just so slow. The players don’t know what to do upon winning possession. Why is that? Their ability and intelligence or coaching? Or both? 

I’d say ability more so, I don’t think you could coach that stuff into Conor Coventry or Anderson for example, a player needs to have those asset's, of the players we have don’t, I’m sure those hiys would be better because of the type of player we are talking about. Most of our strikers seem to have to win a battle then get into the box, rather than be in scoreable, more threatening positions because they are trying to create for themselves. I thought Carey was going to be more creative, but he’s another one where work rate is more prominent in his game, obviously things NJ likes in a player. 

SDAddick

swords_alive said:

Perfectly content with that for an hour, thinking get TC and Kelman on and we could snatch this. But Anderson off and Docherty on, and Bell off at same time, and we're lop-sided and unable to re-gain any shape. Docherty chasing their guys across the pitch to no effect and then we concede. And we never got any shape back thereafter!

This is more where I am. We weren't good today, but our press had its moments in the first 60.

And then came the subs...

And then we lost our shape and what very little cohesion we had.

Look, Bell was only ever going to play 60 minutes, and while he looked a bit rusty he did his job. We got through the hour mark and you're thinking "Right, TC and Kelman on now and we start to hit them on the press/counter." And yet we seemed to sit off them in the last 30 minutes after having some joy in the press early on. Norwich looked ropey playing out from the back despite being a side formerly managed by Liam Manning. 

In the first two thirds we just weren't good enough on the ball. Coventry and Gillesphey can look after it but they looked like the only ones today. Sorry, I should add Bell to that, but Bell is more a CB at this point who can break forward, not a LWB who carries the ball up the pitch consistently. But with our lack of ability in possession we have to make the best of the counter, the press, and set pieces.

And we had the set piece opportunities today. And well, you saw how that went. The good news is James Bree is unlikely to be that bad again.

I've said it on the transfers thread, I think I've said it in match threads, but we need a LWB (which is a known by Jones), a RWB (same, I think), and a ball playing and ball carrying central midfielder. The last one is the one I worry about the most. Doc isn't that. Works hard and all, does occasionally pick a pass, but just isn't a linking midfielder. Anderson brings more athleticism and ability in the press but he also just isn't good enough with his passing or in tight spaces. It leaves us trying Carey in CM, where he's less effective and sometimes gets caught on the ball, or Knibbs, who hasn't been trusted as an 8 yet and I'm not sure he'd thrive there. A player who can carry the ball, pick a pass, and press well will be expensive and hard to find in January. But I think it's a market we need to at least explore. Might be a place for a Prem loan. Might be a chance to look on the continent. Just something to get us out of this one paced, hard working but technically lacking 8 role.

A player like that would also link Coventry and Carey, who both can play a bit, we just don't see it because Coventry doesn't have enough in front of him and Carey is solely playing on seconds and knock downs and when he gets a chance to run at players there are three opposition players in front of him.

A word for Gough, who has come a long way in 3-4 months. He wasn't considered one of the best, what, six CBs at the club in the summer? And now he's starting in the Championship. It's obviously a nod to where we are injury-wise, but he stepped into the breach and didn't embarrass himself. Got caught out a bit, wasn't assured enough in possession, but I think there's more to come from him. I'll be honest, I hope that more to come is next season and we're able to get fit enough that we don't need him for the rest of this year.

We move onto Pompey. I don't think we'll be as bad there as we were today. Kelman can't get 60 minutes fit fast enough, playing him up front lets us play TC up front alongside him which offers our best movement up front as well as our best two pressers up front as well. After two months on the sidelines Monday might be too soon, but maybe NJ says fuck it and chucks him in there with the remit of running hard for 60 and then he'll be replaced. We had our best results with TC and Kelman up front at the start for a reason.

Rob

fenaddick said:

Rob said:

The on field decisions today were being made by Curtis Fleming right? I’m not sure why Nathan Jones is being blamed for the result. The 1st substitution still baffles me. I’m not sure Jones would have done that. It completely changed the game.

Jones was on the phone to the bench the whole time 

I thought he was suspended from the game so could take no part. No?

Garrymanilow

Valiantphil said:

Zero shots in 90 mins. 

Appalling set-pieces
Beaten by a bottom 3 team
We are a relegation side. 

Norwich are in the bottom 3 right now because they had an atrocious start under Manning but things are turning round under Clement. They would have been looking to be top 6 at the start of the season and in their past few games they’ve beaten QPR and Southampton and drawn away at Preston and Sheffield Utd. They aren’t some shoo-in for relegation, we were not good today but it’s not like we’ve capitulated against a nothing team, that squad is worth 10s of millions. 

_uptheaddicks

This is worrying me now . If we ignore Sheffield Wed, not pretty seeing our lowly position:

MarcusH26

I do hope an extra bit of final third creativity is on the shopping list for Jan. Now I'm not expecting us to blow the chequebook open for a Scott Twine or a Jack Rudoni type string puller but we can't go on for the rest of the season with strikers feeding off scraps and half chances. I thought Knibbs might be that player but he seems way off it. 

The Red Robin

Sword65pf said:

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

The Red Robin said:

Sword65pf said:

We really do seem to be missing that cultured ball playing forward  thinking midfielder that can control games, if there were that player available, do people think NJ would adjust and use him? I’m not certain he would, which concerns me a bit. This isn’t an NJ out thing but do wonder if he might have to adapt. We just don’t give our strikers the best chance of being successful, for example miles Leaburn against Oxford was really good but didn’t do much in front of goal as I remember. I feel like our strikers are having to create and score for themselves. 

No. Jones isn’t interested in keeping possession. It’s not the way he wants to play. That’s fine, if there’s a plan when you whom possession high up. We don’t have one a lot of the time. 

My point is more that we don’t have anyone that worries other sides to maybe consider man marking, TC isn’t that player as he doesn’t have the quality on the ball, I don’t mind not having the ball all the time, but for whatever time we have it, we need someone with the quality to knit things together, most teams have at least one of those players, for example and I’m saying these players because I didn’t know them that much, Eom for Swansea, Mehmeti for Bristol city and various others.we don’t have that.

I think we’re agreeing. You’re spot on. Just someone who can turn quickly during a transition and get those quick, killer, incisive passes into our forwards. But look at today - we win the ball in the final third and then it’s just so slow. The players don’t know what to do upon winning possession. Why is that? Their ability and intelligence or coaching? Or both? 

I’d say ability more so, I don’t think you could coach that stuff into Conor Coventry or Anderson for example, a player needs to have those asset's, of the players we have don’t, I’m sure those hiys would be better because of the type of player we are talking about. Most of our strikers seem to have to win a battle then get into the box, rather than be in scoreable, more threatening positions because they are trying to create for themselves. I thought Carey was going to be more creative, but he’s another one where work rate is more prominent in his game, obviously things NJ likes in a player. 

Yeh, Carey or Knibbs are probably the only two (maybe Fullah) who could play that role. 

Fanny Fanackapan

th0rryy said:

Really disappointing performance and result. We looked as bad today as Oxford looked against us last week. Whilst we can keep games tight for large periods of time, we just looked completely devoid of any attacking threat whatsoever. I get that NJ is managing squad and fitness, but he's still tinkering at times to try and find something that works going forward. Players are coming in and out and in different positions, meaning that we cannot find any rhythm when we have the ball. As much as Anderson provides more (imo) than Docherty, his default is always a backwards pass and can neither creatively bring the ball forward with either a dribble or a forward pass. I do feel it's a really thankless task for any of our forwards, because we are so defensive in our play.

Like others have pointed out, Bree was really poor today. His set pieces have been honking for a while now, and, when we are not scoring as freely as we once were, they need to be better. The free kick was straight at the wall. The corners were criminally under or overhit. This is a professional footballer and must do better. When he first came in, he played so well - but now, he's one of the worst offenders of underperformance. I really don't think he'd be worth paying the substantial wages in January, and if his set pieces continue to be so poor, he brings very little. The inconsistency of his performances just make me think we should be able to find better.

Norwich are going to climb - Manning put them in a hole, but they will start moving up slowly. Ordinarily, it's not a place we'd go to expect points. It's the lack of performance that irks me the most. I would still prefer a 4-2-3-1 system that could allow for us to have Apter and Campbell wide and just ditch the obsession with WBs when we don't have the players that can play the position. I'm no expert - maybe this is the only way NJ can see us getting points. Somehow, we need to get some more players in the team that carry more of a threat with the ball.

Another big game vs Pompey comes quickly. Not quite a must win, but definitely a must avoid a loss. It's all well and good keeping it tight, but goalscoring is essential if we want to give ourselves the best chance of staying up and I don't think we're making the best of the resources we have. I wonder if whoever NJ was shown sitting next to was someone of importance in deciding who we may look to bring in in January.

Presume you mean Jim Rodwell ?

Braziliance

I actually can't recall anything about the game, and judging by the comments online, I've done myself a favour.

Briston_Addick

That was a AAA performance.

Awful.

Abysmal.

Atrocious.




Well done to Gough on his full debut, composed in defence with some vital and well-timed challenges combined with some intelligent forays upfield (albeit matched by unintelligent passing - or non-passing - by team-mates).

Everyone else in the side ... thanks for ruining my Boxing Day.

Briston_Addick

The only good thing about today was that I didn't have a 300-mile round trip to watch it.



Unlike home games ☹️

queensland_addick

I said in the match preview that if we can keep Makama quiet, we may come away with something. We didn't and we didn't.
Everyone seemed worried about Sargent, who didn't even play!
They have unearthed a cracking CF, and are a far more decent side than their position suggested.
We had zero fire in our bellies, and didn't look up for it, from the outset.
Shout out to Gough who made a very impressive debut, Coventry who put in the effort and Kaminski, the rest were awful.
Jones needs to stop tinkering and concentrate on our lack of creativity by playing Fullah or anyone with a touch of skill who can make something happen.

NabySarr

Definitely lacked some intensity. I think Jones not being on the touchline is quite a big loss for us. His energy on the touchline is usually transferred directly to the players and reflected in their performance. If he’d been there today he’d have done one of his mid-game team talks and put a rocket up them