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EFL Playoffs 25/26 (Saints booted out of final and given 4 point deduction - pg34)
Comments
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This is nothing new getting caught is. I guess the most important factor is the 72 hour rule.
Years ago I got chatting to a guy who used to watch teams for Sunderland games coming up. This was when Peter Reid was there.
He showed me a little blue book that showed where every corner in a match went, and free kicks in and around the box and formation changes as the game progressed dependant on the score and timings of the subs.
I saw him in the east stand on a few occasions as he said he wouldn't be obvious and got a great view there. He even probed me for information which I declined obviously.
Not sure where he lived, but it was past my stop in Basingstoke but saw him on several occasions on the train.
Maybe he lived in Southampton.3 -
Not hard to understand is it 🤷♂️Briston_Addick said:
Giving Golfie the benefit of the doubt I asume he meant another two lots of four points i.e. four points for each match they've admitted to.Fumbluff said:
Wait, wait, just so I’m clear, you’re the financial advisor and you’re telling me that 2 lots of 4 makes 12?golfaddick said:
Should be more point deductions. 2 lots of 4, making 12 in total.fenaddick said:
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.SantaClaus said:
Maybe they thought he'd just look like a random fan etc.What I really don't understand is why send a gormless intern with an iPhone to spy on opponents? Why not do it with an untraceable drone controlled by someone sitting in a vehicle a couple of miles away?3 -
10 point deduction .... re do play-offs- mwall v disney and midds v hull ... efl would love Wrexham there!0
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We stayed up so basically having got wiped out by Southampton on the home game when we had lost key players to injury is not something we really care that too much about and seems hard to bitch about I guess.
Except, they had clearly done their ‘homework’ to put 5 goals past us so quickly before we could recover. Whilst shit may happen and as fans we are collectively pretty good at moving on you just have to wonder about the games they seem to have confessed to, ones where they seemed banged to rights (Middlesbrough), one they lost anyway (Oxford) and one they drew to a team that achieved automatic promotion (Ipswich). That those were the only ones just doesn’t make sense.5 -
That’s basic scouting. Which is allowed. Look in the West Stand of any Charlton game and it’s full of scouts for upcoming opponents sitting there in club clothing.Chippycafc said:This is nothing new getting caught is. I guess the most important factor is the 72 hour rule.
Years ago I got chatting to a guy who used to watch teams for Sunderland games coming up. This was when Peter Reid was there.
He showed me a little blue book that showed where every corner in a match went, and free kicks in and around the box and formation changes as the game progressed dependant on the score and timings of the subs.
I saw him in the east stand on a few occasions as he said he wouldn't be obvious and got a great view there. He even probed me for information which I declined obviously.
Not sure where he lived, but it was past my stop in Basingstoke but saw him on several occasions on the train.
Maybe he lived in Southampton.23 -
Southampton to appeal today and the suggestion by the BBC that things could potentially change again.I can’t see what they can challenge tbh2
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Not knowing the rules is no excuse.stoneroses19 said:
It's like breaking the law and getting caught and saying you never knew it was against the Law.13 -
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The punishment. There challenge won’t be that they didn’t do it, as they’ve already admitted to doing it three times (including Middlesborough). They’ll want to try and show that the punishment is OTT.Arsenetatters said:Southampton to appeal today and the suggestion by the BBC that things could potentially change again.I can’t see what they can challenge tbh
This could turn into an (even bigger) farce if they are reinstated to the final.1 -
The EFL are notorious for taking absolutely ages when it comes to making important decisions.
Often dragging their heels for months.
But with the play off final due on Saturday they are going to have to make a final decision today.1 -
Great decision, just hope it sticks on appeal!ShootersHillGuru said:Correct decision but the four points deduction next season is too lenient.
The only bit I don't get is the huge disparity between the 4 points deduction and the main penalty of being kicked out of the play off final?
I reckon this will be the course of appeal by Saints?
They will argue for an excessive penalty and disparity between the points and the ban.......
Maybe they will argue they could have kept their place in the final but have a 12 point suspended deduction?
Just hope the appeal is denied.....3 -
I can't see how the appeal can reverse the decison to expel from the play-offs without making the EFL a laughing stock. Will probably reduce or reverse the points deduction.
Hope they stand firm though2 -
They're not appealing the charge (as they already admitted it), they're appealing the punishment.Arsenetatters said:Southampton to appeal today and the suggestion by the BBC that things could potentially change again.I can’t see what they can challenge tbh
Their argument will probably be along the lines of "you only fined Leeds 200k".
However i think it will be futile, given that it's multiple cases and the EFL will want to set a precedent to ensure it doesn't happen again.0 -
Also, other people at the club would have known it was against the rules, why didn’t someone tell him.blackpool72 said:
Not knowing the rules is no excuse.stoneroses19 said:
It's like breaking the law and getting caught and saying you never knew it was against the Law.Now he has admitted fault and that he didn’t know it was wrong, I’d say that guarantees he did it more than the three times the clubs has admitted.9 -
If they didn't know it was against the rules then why did the 'spy' run off when challenged and change into different clothes to try and avoid being caught?stoneroses19 said:28 -
That's exactly my take. They have admitted cheating and conveniently been allowed to plead guilty with evidence that conveniently doesn't appear to have damaged the main competition, the league. I have trouble believing they spied on two league games only. Why those two and not more or even every one they played in? So a 4 points deduction for that alone I'd say was pretty lenient. But they also admitted cheating in the play offs and were hit with expulsion from the competition, the ultimate sanction. I think they may of got off lightly here, cheating like this cannot be tolerated and for once I think EFL has got the punishment pretty spot on although I would have awarded all 3 points to the two teams they have admitted spying on but they would have obviously complicated matters somewhat.MuttleyCAFC said:I suspect they spied on more than Oxford and Ipswich. They have admitted those two as, conveniently, it doesn't affect anything directly in the table. Ipswich got promoted and were way behind Coventry and Oxford finished four points below West Brom. I suspect, they knew it would come out that it wasn't a one off and admitting to only two, they thought would be less damaging in terms of punishment and might prevent the EFL digging further. I said this before it came out that they almost certainly will have history of doing it under this manager. Whatever anybody says, including ex players, it absolutely gives them a potential advantage. Why Oxford and not some other club? If it does come out, they may face a much stiffer punishment than minus four points next season.
In terms of an appeal, it will be heard by different people appointed by the league. I would expect they will not look at everything using a blank sheet, including the punishment but instead look at the robustness of the decision against possible future legal challenge. I wouldn't give Southampton much chance of winning the appeal. We slag of the EFL enough but they have acted in the interests of the game here and I doubt this sort of cheating will happen again.
I expect the FA will now want to have a good look at this, nothing brings the game in to more disrepute than cheating. I would think they, (the FA), will charge Southampton as a club and a few employees with bringing the game into disrepute and a few other charges that I can't think of.
I don't feel sorry for the Saints fans whatsoever, they have also gained from cheating, it might not of have been their doing but my god didn't they enjoy themselves at others expense, a really good run and a huge belly laugh at Middlesbrough and many in fancy dress, tossers. Quite a few of them have mentioned the 115 elephants in the room Man City have but miss the point they are not part of that and will remain no part of that league or organisation for at least another season, not that they really took part in that league during to one prior to the one we just finished.
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It would be quiet funny if the appeal commission goes, yeah, the punishment is harsh, you can have a point back, and then Southampton look silly.I do hope that Boro can shift the tickets and get people down by whatever means on Saturday4
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I do, they've been totally shafted by the actions of their manager and his staff.charltonkeston said:
That's exactly my take. They have admitted cheating and conveniently been allowed to plead guilty with evidence that conveniently doesn't appear to have damaged the main competition, the league. I have trouble believing they spied on two league games only. Why those two and not more or even every one they played in? So a 4 points deduction for that alone I'd say was pretty lenient. But they also admitted cheating in the play offs and were hit with expulsion from the competition, the ultimate sanction. I think they may of got off lightly here, cheating like this cannot be tolerated and for once I think EFL has got the punishment pretty spot on although I would have awarded all 3 points to the two teams they have admitted spying on but they would have obviously complicated matters somewhat.MuttleyCAFC said:I suspect they spied on more than Oxford and Ipswich. They have admitted those two as, conveniently, it doesn't affect anything directly in the table. Ipswich got promoted and were way behind Coventry and Oxford finished four points below West Brom. I suspect, they knew it would come out that it wasn't a one off and admitting to only two, they thought would be less damaging in terms of punishment and might prevent the EFL digging further. I said this before it came out that they almost certainly will have history of doing it under this manager. Whatever anybody says, including ex players, it absolutely gives them a potential advantage. Why Oxford and not some other club? If it does come out, they may face a much stiffer punishment than minus four points next season.
In terms of an appeal, it will be heard by different people appointed by the league. I would expect they will not look at everything using a blank sheet, including the punishment but instead look at the robustness of the decision against possible future legal challenge. I wouldn't give Southampton much chance of winning the appeal. We slag of the EFL enough but they have acted in the interests of the game here and I doubt this sort of cheating will happen again.
I expect the FA will now want to have a good look at this, nothing brings the game in to more disrepute than cheating. I would think they, (the FA), will charge Southampton as a club and a few employees with bringing the game into disrepute and a few other charges that I can't think of.
I don't feel sorry for the Saints fans whatsoever, they have also gained from cheating, it might not of have been their doing but my god didn't they enjoy themselves at others expense, a really good run and a huge belly laugh at Middlesbrough and many in fancy dress, tossers. Quite a few of them have mentioned the 115 elephants in the room Man City have but miss the point they are not part of that and will remain no part of that league or organisation for at least another season, not that they really took part in that league during to one prior to the one we just finished.
If you were a Southampton fan who's spent thousands of pounds watching your team home and away this season, travelling hundreds of miles for most away games, then i'm sure you'd be pretty fucked off at this. Yes they got to see a lot of wins but ultimately it's a completely wasted season and was all for nothing. It could even set them back a couple of years as some of their better players will surely be sold and they'll probably soon be looking for a new manager.
Most fans i've seen online are saying their club has totally let them down.7 -
Maybe they shouldn't have been turning up the the playoff games with binoculars and in gilly suits then, the absolute lemonsChris_from_Sidcup said:
I do, they've been totally shafted by the actions of their manager and his staff.charltonkeston said:
That's exactly my take. They have admitted cheating and conveniently been allowed to plead guilty with evidence that conveniently doesn't appear to have damaged the main competition, the league. I have trouble believing they spied on two league games only. Why those two and not more or even every one they played in? So a 4 points deduction for that alone I'd say was pretty lenient. But they also admitted cheating in the play offs and were hit with expulsion from the competition, the ultimate sanction. I think they may of got off lightly here, cheating like this cannot be tolerated and for once I think EFL has got the punishment pretty spot on although I would have awarded all 3 points to the two teams they have admitted spying on but they would have obviously complicated matters somewhat.MuttleyCAFC said:I suspect they spied on more than Oxford and Ipswich. They have admitted those two as, conveniently, it doesn't affect anything directly in the table. Ipswich got promoted and were way behind Coventry and Oxford finished four points below West Brom. I suspect, they knew it would come out that it wasn't a one off and admitting to only two, they thought would be less damaging in terms of punishment and might prevent the EFL digging further. I said this before it came out that they almost certainly will have history of doing it under this manager. Whatever anybody says, including ex players, it absolutely gives them a potential advantage. Why Oxford and not some other club? If it does come out, they may face a much stiffer punishment than minus four points next season.
In terms of an appeal, it will be heard by different people appointed by the league. I would expect they will not look at everything using a blank sheet, including the punishment but instead look at the robustness of the decision against possible future legal challenge. I wouldn't give Southampton much chance of winning the appeal. We slag of the EFL enough but they have acted in the interests of the game here and I doubt this sort of cheating will happen again.
I expect the FA will now want to have a good look at this, nothing brings the game in to more disrepute than cheating. I would think they, (the FA), will charge Southampton as a club and a few employees with bringing the game into disrepute and a few other charges that I can't think of.
I don't feel sorry for the Saints fans whatsoever, they have also gained from cheating, it might not of have been their doing but my god didn't they enjoy themselves at others expense, a really good run and a huge belly laugh at Middlesbrough and many in fancy dress, tossers. Quite a few of them have mentioned the 115 elephants in the room Man City have but miss the point they are not part of that and will remain no part of that league or organisation for at least another season, not that they really took part in that league during to one prior to the one we just finished.
If you were a Southampton fan who's spent thousands of pounds watching your team home and away this season, travelling hundreds of miles for most away games, then i'm sure you'd be pretty fucked off at this. Yes they got to see a lot of wins but ultimately it's a completely wasted season and was all for nothing. It could even set them back a couple of years as some of their better players will surely be sold and they'll probably soon be looking for a new manager.
Most fans i've seen online are saying their club has totally let them down.
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Frivolous appeal. Extra match ban for Charlton3
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10 points deducted from EvertonAllHailTheHen said:Frivolous appeal. Extra match ban for Charlton2 -
So let’s now please take this zero tolerance approach on to the grappling in the penalty area, diving, appealing for every throw etc etc.
I exaggerate but it might show there is an opportunity to get some norms re established.Unfortunately the FFP or whatever it now is remains harder to apply real time as is always retrospective when accounts are finalised etc6 -
And I believe they are provided comp tickets?The Red Robin said:
That’s basic scouting. Which is allowed. Look in the West Stand of any Charlton game and it’s full of scouts for upcoming opponents sitting there in club clothing.Chippycafc said:This is nothing new getting caught is. I guess the most important factor is the 72 hour rule.
Years ago I got chatting to a guy who used to watch teams for Sunderland games coming up. This was when Peter Reid was there.
He showed me a little blue book that showed where every corner in a match went, and free kicks in and around the box and formation changes as the game progressed dependant on the score and timings of the subs.
I saw him in the east stand on a few occasions as he said he wouldn't be obvious and got a great view there. He even probed me for information which I declined obviously.
Not sure where he lived, but it was past my stop in Basingstoke but saw him on several occasions on the train.
Maybe he lived in Southampton.0 -
Theres no speed limit on motorways in Germany imagine how many Germanians could use this as an excuse when caught on the M25? theres me blaming the drivers of Audis, Mercs and Beemers perhaps its just there cars computers need updating.blackpool72 said:
Not knowing the rules is no excuse.stoneroses19 said:
It's like breaking the law and getting caught and saying you never knew it was against the Law.0 -
Scouting a match is and always has been fair game, we are all scouts. Watching training sessions where the swuad are practising shape out of possession, set piece routines, and doing starting 11 v back up players is cheating.
Middlesbrough have a class act of a chairman and owner who has form for facilitating stuff like this, wouldn't shock me at all of he has already booked every coach in the north East and Scotland to take as many inbred, 7 fingered smoggies as needed to wembley
Course it won't help if half the squad have been on the session in magaluf since losing last week4 -
Well actually, the new SCR rules (from the season after next) can be measured in real time so you're in luck therevalleynick66 said:So let’s now please take this zero tolerance approach on to the grappling in the penalty area, diving, appealing for every throw etc etc.
I exaggerate but it might show there is an opportunity to get some norms re established.Unfortunately the FFP or whatever it now is remains harder to apply real time as is always retrospective when accounts are finalised etc3 -
I am sure never seen it before or since.The Red Robin said:
That’s basic scouting. Which is allowed. Look in the West Stand of any Charlton game and it’s full of scouts for upcoming opponents sitting there in club clothing.Chippycafc said:This is nothing new getting caught is. I guess the most important factor is the 72 hour rule.
Years ago I got chatting to a guy who used to watch teams for Sunderland games coming up. This was when Peter Reid was there.
He showed me a little blue book that showed where every corner in a match went, and free kicks in and around the box and formation changes as the game progressed dependant on the score and timings of the subs.
I saw him in the east stand on a few occasions as he said he wouldn't be obvious and got a great view there. He even probed me for information which I declined obviously.
Not sure where he lived, but it was past my stop in Basingstoke but saw him on several occasions on the train.
Maybe he lived in Southampton.4
