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The Owners

CafcSteve
CafcSteve Posts: 1,248
in General Charlton

Think it’s important to remember that they basically gave us the lowest budget in the league.

Get why some of the new players are being criticised but do we really think that some of them would have been signed if the owners backed Jones more?

Lots of people on here thought that it was a really good transfer window but some of us were always sceptical that we hadn’t addressed the issues from last season enough.

We’re going to struggle to play decent football when we’ve spent much less than our opponents.

Think that it’s going to come down to whether we can grind out wins at home.

«13

Comments

  • Arsenetatters
    Arsenetatters Posts: 6,446
    bobmunro said:
    Remind me where we were when they bought the club from Rock on Tommy? Also imagine where we could have been if they hadn't.
    Our owners are not fans, yet they are spending upwards of £15m a year of their own money to fund a Championship football club, our football club.
    I don't believe we are being run particularly effectively, and we need an experienced football CEO urgently, but I for one am very grateful to our owners.
    It's very easy to spend other peoples' money.


    But they’re not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts are they? It’s a gamble for them and they’ve got the money to do it. They have a very different relationship with the club than fans do so of course we’re spending their money- it’s how we would if we had it. 
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 4,364
    Airman Brown said:
    I am not a natural defender of owners and I think some fans are being extremely naive in swallowing the line that they are only looking to sell a stake in the club, but I don’t believe their financial support for the playing side is at fault.

    They may have been ill served by some at board level but the level of investment appears to me proportionate and sensible. We’re doing OK on the pitch and benefit from having Nathan Jones appointed under them as manager.
    Great post. I agree with all of this. 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 22,133
    Arsenetatters said:
    bobmunro said:
    Remind me where we were when they bought the club from Rock on Tommy? Also imagine where we could have been if they hadn't.
    Our owners are not fans, yet they are spending upwards of £15m a year of their own money to fund a Championship football club, our football club.
    I don't believe we are being run particularly effectively, and we need an experienced football CEO urgently, but I for one am very grateful to our owners.
    It's very easy to spend other peoples' money.


    But they’re not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts are they? It’s a gamble for them and they’ve got the money to do it. They have a very different relationship with the club than fans do so of course we’re spending their money- it’s how we would if we had it. 
    I never said they were, I didn't mention their motives and yes of course they saw (not sure how) a potential return on their investments. The net result however is that as of now they are bankrolling us and it's that for which I am grateful.

  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 3,678
    paulsturgess said:
    Airman Brown said:
    I am not a natural defender of owners and I think some fans are being extremely naive in swallowing the line that they are only looking to sell a stake in the club, but I don’t believe their financial support for the playing side is at fault.

    They may have been ill served by some at board level but the level of investment appears to me proportionate and sensible. We’re doing OK on the pitch and benefit from having Nathan Jones appointed under them as manager.
    Great post. I agree with all of this. 
    except for the bit we are doing ok on the pitch, that will also include we sign players with a serious injury record and they get injured with us, and it is medium to long term.
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 19,568
    msomerton said:
    paulsturgess said:
    Airman Brown said:
    I am not a natural defender of owners and I think some fans are being extremely naive in swallowing the line that they are only looking to sell a stake in the club, but I don’t believe their financial support for the playing side is at fault.

    They may have been ill served by some at board level but the level of investment appears to me proportionate and sensible. We’re doing OK on the pitch and benefit from having Nathan Jones appointed under them as manager.
    Great post. I agree with all of this. 
    except for the bit we are doing ok on the pitch, that will also include we sign players with a serious injury record and they get injured with us, and it is medium to long term.
    We’re 8th in the Championship, after the first run of games, we have a budget that allows us to compete, and occasionally we’re get a player who has a bit of quality, but injury issues. We’re doing OK 
  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 2,970
    We have had absolute parasites with previous ownership. Compared to where we are now from 2 and a half years ago is incredible. 

    The owners shouldn’t be judged on how much they spend it’s how much they’re willing to lose in comparison to the rest of the championship owners. 

    We’re generating 4M less on revenue than every other championship club we don’t make good money on player sales, there is no metric that suggests we’re entitled to more than what we’re currently receiving. Unfortunately at this moment of time we are one of the smaller sides in this division 
  • Radostanradical
    Radostanradical Posts: 1,550
    The fact is some of our so called "fans" will not be happy until someone from the good old days is in charge. If 5 years ago you gave me the choice to be in top 8 in Championship id bite your hand off.
  • ct_addick
    ct_addick Posts: 4,802
    Radostanradical said:
    The fact is some of our so called "fans" will not be happy until someone from the good old days is in charge. If 5 years ago you gave me the choice to be in top 8 in Championship id bite your hand off.
    Won’t be there too much longer based on the last couple of performances 

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  • redman
    redman Posts: 5,518
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 35,129

    I don’t really understand the rush to blame the owners here. Yes, we had one of the lowest wage budgets in the Championship last season, the club itself said it believed it was the second lowest, but that isn’t the same as saying the owners haven’t backed Jones.

    They have continued to fund a club making substantial losses and have supported another significant turnover of the squad this summer, with fees paid for a number of players as well as the wage commitments involved. 

    Jones has hardly been left trying to put a Championship squad together from whatever he could find down the back of the sofa.

    What I find particularly odd is that, as you say, plenty of people thought we’d had a really good transfer window. If some of those players now turn out not to be good enough, that doesn’t suddenly mean the owners failed to back the manager. It means we need to look at whether the recruitment decisions were right.

    Having a smaller budget than many Championship clubs obviously makes life harder, but spending less doesn’t automatically condemn you to poor football either. If it did, there wouldn’t be much point playing the matches.


  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 11,724
    Arsenetatters said:
    bobmunro said:
    Remind me where we were when they bought the club from Rock on Tommy? Also imagine where we could have been if they hadn't.
    Our owners are not fans, yet they are spending upwards of £15m a year of their own money to fund a Championship football club, our football club.
    I don't believe we are being run particularly effectively, and we need an experienced football CEO urgently, but I for one am very grateful to our owners.
    It's very easy to spend other peoples' money.


    But they’re not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts are they? It’s a gamble for them and they’ve got the money to do it. They have a very different relationship with the club than fans do so of course we’re spending their money- it’s how we would if we had it. 
    The last thing we want is the club to be run like it’s a charity case or a rich guy’s latest amusement piece. We need owners that can always see a potential exit and a reason to keep  investing. 

    TBH, I’d be more concerned if the transfer budget was a lot larger. Quality players don’t all cost a fortune unless there is someone with loads of money that is willing to piss it up the  wall.
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 19,596
    100% THIS , Damo.

    None so blind as those who will not see....
  • MarcusH26
    MarcusH26 Posts: 11,166
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Damo would you with your experience put this type of thing down to not wanting to pay the right kind of money to attract a top end CEO and commercial lead or is it a bit more complicated than that. I'm just surprised we're over a year removed from knowing Murphy wasn't going to happen and there's still no permanent CEO at the club. 
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 23,430
    MarcusH26 said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Damo would you with your experience put this type of thing down to not wanting to pay the right kind of money to attract a top end CEO and commercial lead or is it a bit more complicated than that. I'm just surprised we're over a year removed from knowing Murphy wasn't going to happen and there's still no permanent CEO at the club. 
    I'm just guessing here but if Damo is right and Friedman wants out then he won't want to appoint a CEO as presumably the new owner would want their own person in the role
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,748
    God help anyone having an opinion than from the usual. For what it's worth, I judge our owners by the investment they put on the playing field, and before anyone gets on my case other clubs who I might maybe incorrectly are smaller than us do try and spend a bit of money. 

    All clubs are basket cases where profit and loss is concerned. You don't take over a club like ours to make money. Unless your prepared to invest in the playing squad. Yes I know there are restrictions on the money coming in, but unless you are prepared to spend it ain't happening. And I have been at 7 of our 10 games and seen the others to see our no wins in 5 decline. 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 39,582
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Isn’t big player sales our best chance of closing the gap? No doubt there are always ways of bringing more money in, but selling a player for £10-20m is far more than we could bring in from more ticket sales, merchandise, food etc.

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  • DamoNorthStand
    DamoNorthStand Posts: 13,677
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Isn’t big player sales our best chance of closing the gap? No doubt there are always ways of bringing more money in, but selling a player for £10-20m is far more than we could bring in from more ticket sales, merchandise, food etc.

    Of course, very good point, but we need both.

    The other bit we have to consider is to the the player sale model to work well, you need an (arguably) even better player scouting and purchasing model as you are losing a good player who will need replacing.

    If we can get the organic baseline of revenue ticking over properly, we at least give ourselves options.

    What if a player doesnt want to leave?

    What if we can't replace him?

    What if the market isnt strong in that position?

    What if other clubs inflate their asking prices because they know we have sold TC for £10m for example?

    I have said before our way forward is the Millwall model, but their's works because they have an excellent recruitment and scouting record (much better than ours we would agree).

    Commercial revenue is clean, and it is there every year. Much easier to plan not to mention put a value on the club. 
  • Sword65pf
    Sword65pf Posts: 2,957
    edited September 20
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Isn’t big player sales our best chance of closing the gap? No doubt there are always ways of bringing more money in, but selling a player for £10-20m is far more than we could bring in from more ticket sales, merchandise, food etc.
    It is if the intention was to reinvest, are our owners looking like that is likely?, or more so is it to narrow the losses?
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,709
    I don’t get the digging at out ownership ! Of course they are looking at ROI they are businessmen and good luck to them. We are paying the bills and so far being run on a sensible basis. If they wanted too they could have taken £8m for a youngster this window ( if I was them I would have taken it ) which would have gone a long way towards the losses but they didn’t. Yes we are not following the Wrexham model (thank god) but we are being run on a decent model with no risk of embargo’s etc. it will take time but we are progressing anyone that can’t see that is blind. 2 years ago we were losing at home to Crawley ! Surely any Charlton supporter worth their salt doesn’t expect to win every game and atm we are top half of the Championship ffs. Calm down and enjoy the good with the bad COYRS
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 39,582
    DamoNorthStand said:
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Isn’t big player sales our best chance of closing the gap? No doubt there are always ways of bringing more money in, but selling a player for £10-20m is far more than we could bring in from more ticket sales, merchandise, food etc.

    Of course, very good point, but we need both.

    The other bit we have to consider is to the the player sale model to work well, you need an (arguably) even better player scouting and purchasing model as you are losing a good player who will need replacing.

    If we can get the organic baseline of revenue ticking over properly, we at least give ourselves options.

    What if a player doesnt want to leave?

    What if we can't replace him?

    What if the market isnt strong in that position?

    What if other clubs inflate their asking prices because they know we have sold TC for £10m for example?

    I have said before our way forward is the Millwall model, but their's works because they have an excellent recruitment and scouting record (much better than ours we would agree).

    Commercial revenue is clean, and it is there every year. Much easier to plan not to mention put a value on the club. 
    I wasn’t dismissing the need to increase both, only saying player sales is where the biggest difference should come from.

    I don’t think it’s fair to compare to Millwall, most of their big sales have been in the last few years and this is their 9th season in a row at this level.

    It takes a few windows at least to get there as there as you need to expand your scouting network from a much more limited one in L1, bring players in (signings and from the academy), and develop them to a point where they attract big bids. That could take a year or two for some players, and even more academy players (think how long TC and Leaburn have been part of the first team).

    Millwall sold Esse after 3 seasons in the Championship.

    Azeez played for them for 2 seasons, but had several more seasons experience in the Championship and L1 with Reading, and various non-league loans before that.

    Flemming was also with them for 2 seasons, but like Azeez had a fair few years of experience at other clubs.

    Whether our ownership and set up can get us there is one question, but we haven’t been in this division long enough for players to attract £10m+ offers yet.
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,709
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Isn’t big player sales our best chance of closing the gap? No doubt there are always ways of bringing more money in, but selling a player for £10-20m is far more than we could bring in from more ticket sales, merchandise, food etc.

    Of course, very good point, but we need both.

    The other bit we have to consider is to the the player sale model to work well, you need an (arguably) even better player scouting and purchasing model as you are losing a good player who will need replacing.

    If we can get the organic baseline of revenue ticking over properly, we at least give ourselves options.

    What if a player doesnt want to leave?

    What if we can't replace him?

    What if the market isnt strong in that position?

    What if other clubs inflate their asking prices because they know we have sold TC for £10m for example?

    I have said before our way forward is the Millwall model, but their's works because they have an excellent recruitment and scouting record (much better than ours we would agree).

    Commercial revenue is clean, and it is there every year. Much easier to plan not to mention put a value on the club. 
    I wasn’t dismissing the need to increase both, only saying player sales is where the biggest difference should come from.

    I don’t think it’s fair to compare to Millwall, most of their big sales have been in the last few years and this is their 9th season in a row at this level.

    It takes a few windows at least to get there as there as you need to expand your scouting network from a much more limited one in L1, bring players in (signings and from the academy), and develop them to a point where they attract big bids. That could take a year or two for some players, and even more academy players (think how long TC and Leaburn have been part of the first team).

    Millwall sold Esse after 3 seasons in the Championship.

    Azeez played for them for 2 seasons, but had several more seasons experience in the Championship and L1 with Reading, and various non-league loans before that.

    Flemming was also with them for 2 seasons, but like Azeez had a fair few years of experience at other clubs.

    Whether our ownership and set up can get us there is one question, but we haven’t been in this division long enough for players to attract £10m+ offers yet.
    I agree mate apart from the £10m+ bit. If TC keeps up the current level until Xmas I can easily see someone offering more than £10m for him. In a team like West Ham or Southampton he could be devastating. I’m sure he will attract interest it will be interesting to see what the club do 
  • Sword65pf
    Sword65pf Posts: 2,957
    AndyG said:
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Isn’t big player sales our best chance of closing the gap? No doubt there are always ways of bringing more money in, but selling a player for £10-20m is far more than we could bring in from more ticket sales, merchandise, food etc.

    Of course, very good point, but we need both.

    The other bit we have to consider is to the the player sale model to work well, you need an (arguably) even better player scouting and purchasing model as you are losing a good player who will need replacing.

    If we can get the organic baseline of revenue ticking over properly, we at least give ourselves options.

    What if a player doesnt want to leave?

    What if we can't replace him?

    What if the market isnt strong in that position?

    What if other clubs inflate their asking prices because they know we have sold TC for £10m for example?

    I have said before our way forward is the Millwall model, but their's works because they have an excellent recruitment and scouting record (much better than ours we would agree).

    Commercial revenue is clean, and it is there every year. Much easier to plan not to mention put a value on the club. 
    I wasn’t dismissing the need to increase both, only saying player sales is where the biggest difference should come from.

    I don’t think it’s fair to compare to Millwall, most of their big sales have been in the last few years and this is their 9th season in a row at this level.

    It takes a few windows at least to get there as there as you need to expand your scouting network from a much more limited one in L1, bring players in (signings and from the academy), and develop them to a point where they attract big bids. That could take a year or two for some players, and even more academy players (think how long TC and Leaburn have been part of the first team).

    Millwall sold Esse after 3 seasons in the Championship.

    Azeez played for them for 2 seasons, but had several more seasons experience in the Championship and L1 with Reading, and various non-league loans before that.

    Flemming was also with them for 2 seasons, but like Azeez had a fair few years of experience at other clubs.

    Whether our ownership and set up can get us there is one question, but we haven’t been in this division long enough for players to attract £10m+ offers yet.
    I agree mate apart from the £10m+ bit. If TC keeps up the current level until Xmas I can easily see someone offering more than £10m for him. In a team like West Ham or Southampton he could be devastating. I’m sure he will attract interest it will be interesting to see what the club do 
    Which would become a very big decision, if we keep going how we are, we could be relying on him to stay up, what would be more value to us, sell for the money, or keep him to avoid league 1, different scenario if we get things sorted and he is playing in a team higher up the table, if he can keep doing what he is that value is going rocket, but only if we don’t struggle.
  • J BLOCK
    J BLOCK Posts: 8,588
    I think these owners have landed on their feet hiring Nathan Jones. 
  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 2,970
    DamoNorthStand said:
    Scoham said:
    DamoNorthStand said:
    redman said:
    The level of investment in players is also limited by the financial fair play regulations. I must admit I have no idea how close to the limit on this we are, but I suspect, and hope, that there is still some buffer for January, like last season. Until we can get our revenue up somehow, we will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the league. 
    Getting our commercial income fit for purpose would help - and having no commercial lead or CEO will be harming that hugely. Our set up is miles off how a championship club should be structured. Everyone could see the last hire was wrong except the person who made it - despite being told time and time again.

    They need to bring in more senior experience in running sporting organisations and high performing commercial teams. We are 3 or 4 years in and still keep firing blanks here.

    It’s not a question of good intentions - it’s one of results. You can’t keep making the same mistakes 
    Isn’t big player sales our best chance of closing the gap? No doubt there are always ways of bringing more money in, but selling a player for £10-20m is far more than we could bring in from more ticket sales, merchandise, food etc.

    Of course, very good point, but we need both.

    The other bit we have to consider is to the the player sale model to work well, you need an (arguably) even better player scouting and purchasing model as you are losing a good player who will need replacing.

    If we can get the organic baseline of revenue ticking over properly, we at least give ourselves options.

    What if a player doesnt want to leave?

    What if we can't replace him?

    What if the market isnt strong in that position?

    What if other clubs inflate their asking prices because they know we have sold TC for £10m for example?

    I have said before our way forward is the Millwall model, but their's works because they have an excellent recruitment and scouting record (much better than ours we would agree).

    Commercial revenue is clean, and it is there every year. Much easier to plan not to mention put a value on the club. 
    Ironically the majority of fans wanted the person out who has been a massive part of that success. 
  • valleynick66
    valleynick66 Posts: 5,758
    I’m impressed we seem to know what’s been spent on players when everything is ‘undisclosed’ and some on  here maintain that’s important because of player/club negotiations and competitive advantage. 

    We have to accept the owners won’t or can’t do more than they do now and will inevitably sell or bail out if an opportunity arises. 
  • DamoNorthStand
    DamoNorthStand Posts: 13,677
    J BLOCK said:
    I think these owners have landed on their feet hiring Nathan Jones. 

    Came under Charlie's watch funnily enough.

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