If hes found guilty of murder he will get a maditory life sentance, I hope the judge makes it clear to him and his family that the best part of his life will be a distant memory when he gets out.
But we all know the truth, he wont even be 30 by the time he comes out.
Anyway cleverer people than me have failed to sort the worlds problems out, I think I'll be a little more realistic with my wishes;
Bristol City 6 - 0 Palarse
[quote][cite]Posted By: pettswoodaddick[/cite]If hes found guilty of murder he will get a maditory life sentance, I hope the judge makes it clear to him and[u]his family[b][/b][/u][b][/b]that the best part of his life will be a distant memory when he gets out. But we all know the truth, he wont even be 30 by the time he comes out.
Anyway cleverer people than me have failed to sort the worlds problems out, I think I'll be a little more realistic with my wishes; Bristol City 6 - 0 Palarse[/quote]
I think mandatory life sentences are nearer 20 years, if he's 19 now he won't be seeing the outside much before he's 40. Perhaps that's still too soon.
there lies my problem a young man of 16 dies because of a piece of shit. Then his murderer gets 20 years top and is out before he is 40 to do all the things that he hadnt done whilst in jail
He should stay there until he dies easy to do i dont know why this country doesnt do it. cost should have feck all to do with it tell that to his mother once the stages of grieving kick in at the moment she is coping well but there will be a time when her anger consumes her and she will not understand how this shit can breath he same air as decent normal human beings
11 years what a crock of shit the more i fecking read and hear on here it makes my skin crawl. I dont care to think what i would do if it was someone i loved and they only got that sentence
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]11 years what a crock of shit the more i fecking read and hear on here it makes my skin crawl. I dont care to think what i would do if it was someone i loved and they only got that sentence
Unless the trail judge recomends x years. You are correct Len, average time served for murder 11/12 years then on licence.
who the f*ck sat down and decided that this is an acceptable length of time these people must be accountable but who too and what can be done to get tougher sentancing.
Who ever decided that length deserves a lengthy strtch of bird
i hope OB have the right guy. Im sure they must have as there is enough people who saw the scum bag.
Then we need to take the length of the sentance away from these crap judges. The ones that say women deserve rape because of the way they dress, or a peado gets comunity service because he said sorry or a murderer gets 10 years because he had a dumpy flight over from Somalia ! f**k them we need 100% no quarter laid down evry crime has a set minimum sentance.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]but Ormy you seem to be up on the law side of our country who sets the tariffs and is it something as people we can demand a change on
Judges set the actual sentence but have to do so using "sentencing guidlines" from the Home Office. If a judge sets a sentence that the defence team feels is over the top and out of line with the HO's sentencing guidlines then they can appeal against the sentence. Similarly, the crown can appeal a sentence if they feel it too lenient.
People can demand a change and tougher sentencing but as I said before the process on the political/bureaucratic side becomes as much about maintaining budgets as anything else. The HO does not have an endless pot of money to spend on prisons, perhaps they should have more but as pointed out above there are already more people in prison than ever before and new prisons are already being built.
If you read the HO reports on sentencing then the main thing they weigh up in deciding on prison allocation places (ie whether to build new prisons) is how much it will cost to keep someone in prison compared to the cost that would be incurred to the public (property damage, theft, cost of physical assault) by not putting them away.
The question is this, the 19 year-old kid who killed Jimmy Mizen (who was a classmate of my 15 year old cousin at STM) is obviously a complete fucking nutcase so would the threat of prison really deter him anyway? Would it be any worse than where he is right now? What would he really be missing out on in life? He probably knows he'll never be a bank manager and get a house in the burbs.
I think that the threat of really heavy sentencing WOULD work for certain criminals like "career criminals" like bank robbers and so on who are organised and take into account the likely jail term if they get caught in deciding whether or not they are prepared to take the risk of doing the job. It might also work for drink driving - if the government announced that there was to be an immediate 3-month custodial sentence for drink driving for ANYONE (not just repeat offenders) then there would be an immediate drop in drink driving.
The reason for this is because the potential bank robber or drink driver would be thinking RATIONALLY before committing the crime and weighing up risk vs reward and then making a decision whether to commit the crime based on those factors.
On the other hand, you have to ask whether the sick fucker who killed Jimmy Mizen, or the scum that shot that poor little Scouse kid, are even capable of rational thought or any thought at all for that matter.
Would Jimmy Mizen's killer have been thinking about his likely sentence when he stabbed him in the neck, I doubt it, he would probably have been filled with pure evil and hate.
So, come on then you lot. I'm normally a jokey sort of fella on here, but I'm hearing lots of problems but no real solutions.
Fact is, it's a difficult one and there is no single solution.
People have been getting killed by other people for years, decades, centuries, .... whatever is longer than a century. Sometimes there's a "reason", sometimes there ain't. Is it REALLY any different than, say, 50 or 100 years ago - other than the fact that things get reported more easilly and widespread these days?
Saw a quote in the paper today from BJ - the new mayor - saying that "knife crime is the single biggest concern for Londoners today". Is it - really?
Sure it's a concern - one of many - but I would suggest that most people have a lot bigger fish to fry. Still, it makes a nice headline.
Anyway, far too serious for me - anyone got any good jokes?
Rather than thinking to deter, I think we should be thinking revenge and punishment. I dont care if it costs me another penny in the pound on my salary.
[quote][cite]Posted By: pettswoodaddick[/cite]Rather than thinking to deter, I think we should be thinking revenge and punishment. I dont care if it costs me another penny in the pound on my salary.[/quote]
"Saw a quote in the paper today from BJ - the new mayor - saying that "knife crime is the single biggest concern for Londoners today". Is it - really?"
Its my biggest concern walking the streeets of charlton late at night, as I mentioned before a young lad was stabbed outside my flat a few months back... we were only indoors an hour earlier, with Taverns daughter. We could have all become embroiled in it as it took place outside. Luckily she slept through the whole ruckus and the awful screaming and shouting. Luckily i only saw the tail end of it, 3 cowards had just stabbed one lad on the floor and i saw them running away laughing. He lived so it didnt make the paper. tho luckily they did catch the culprits and i believe its been to court.
Anyway what about this event that happened last summer - which some of us spoke about previously - fekk me i love living in charlton but sometimes you gotta think twice.
mate at least he got 15months. Woolwich OB released two guys , who had stabbed a guy."to be delt with by the local Islamic Court". So hopefully there are two scum bags walking about without their right hands ?
I dont think it deters real crims , but life meaning life for murder and rape etc. 10 years for stabbing. Its about PUNISHMENT f**k cures herd it all HERD IT ALL. Get them off the streets and let em rot or not inside.
Teaching ? show them the people who have to live with colostomy bags after being stabbed in the stomach. Show them the grief that their mums have to go through when you die or are banged up for years. Show them what stabbing someone with a 10" kitchen knife, or glassing in the face, or a full blooded kick to the face actually does. Get rid of the "liberal studies" tossers with their leather elbows in their jackets and jesus boots on. Get the people who have been stabbed , glassed , done time, get the Mums of the kids stabbed and murdered and put inside to speak to the yoof.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]"Saw a quote in the paper today from BJ - the new mayor - saying that "knife crime is the single biggest concern for Londoners today". Is it - really?"
Its my biggest concern walking the streeets of charlton late at night, as I mentioned before a young lad was stabbed outside my flat a few months back... we were only indoors an hour earlier, with Taverns daughter. We could have all become embroiled in it as it took place outside. Luckily she slept through the whole ruckus and the awful screaming and shouting. Luckily i only saw the tail end of it, 3 cowards had just stabbed one lad on the floor and i saw them running away laughing. He lived so it didnt make the paper. tho luckily they did catch the culprits and i believe its been to court.
I know exactly where you're coming from and if you've been involved or witnessed something like that then it will obvioulsy have a lasting effect.
However, it's a statistical fact that most victims of this sort of crime are males who are either young or black (or both) - so to come out with a wide-sweeping statement like he did just smacks of jumping on a bandwagon in order to achieve political gain and create a headline or two. But then, he is a politician after all.
FFS you want to know whats wrong with our "justice system" ???? Today it has been anounsed that The Yorshire Ripper will be seaking release as his Human Rights have been infringed by him not geting a fixed minimum term of jail. A Human Rights lawyer is about to lodge his claim !
Re try and give him 150 years mine. Then Take the Human Rights lawyer and sentance HER yes it is a HER to spend one year with Sutcliffe.
Dear God what a twisted way of using what should be a law to protect us all from abuse not giving the abusers rights !
The message to those who comit the most evil crimes is YOU CAN BEAT THE SYSTEM.
[cite]Posted By: pettswoodaddick[/cite]Rather than thinking to deter, I think we should be thinking revenge and punishment. I dont care if it costs me another penny in the pound on my salary.
Prevention is better than cure.
That’s true if we were talking about a fungal infection.
The only way to prevent scum committing crimes is to lock them up before crimes are committed.
What could anyone possibly do for the mind dross that would make a difference? They do not want to live in a community.
Find it hard to find any sympathy with the guy after reading that even if it is innocent until proven guilty and I don't believe that justice is best served by summary killings on the street.
As an aside does anyone else think the photo of him lying on the pavement being given CPR is in poor taste.
Henry i do agree its in poor taste but i hope (assuming the guy was guilty) that he died in a painful manner, knowing he was dying, and his gangsta mates, or his family or his lawyer wasnt going to save him.That he knew he was about to meet his maker and he knew that there would only be one place that he was ending up. If the yng girl he asaulted and then maimed knows it was him then maybe justmaybe she might think he got what he deserved (a very small comfort to her).
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Henry i do agree its in poor taste but i hope (assuming the guy was guilty) that he died in a painful manner, knowing he was dying, and his gangsta mates, or his family or his lawyer wasnt going to save him.That he knew he was about to meet his maker and he knew that there would only be one place that he was ending up. If the yng girl he asaulted and then maimed knows it was him then maybe justmaybe she might think he got what he deserved (a very small comfort to her).
I'm not religous but know what you mean. A small comfort for her but something at least maybe.
For all its flaws and slowness I'd still rather than the criminal justice system dealt with scum like this. An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind as Ben Kingsley said.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]more to the point how come he was allowed out on bail!!!???
Who knows? Overcrowded remand prision as well I guess.
No mate if it was your sister or daughter that was the victim what would you do ?
if OB told me that "we have 100% DNa its him" i would want that scum bag dead dead dead. If i went to court and there was any of his possee their i would reap a powerful and just vengenace on everyone one of them assuming i was out of jail long enough to do it and i would hunt down his lawyer and do the same, i would then watch the news and every bleeding heart liberal who spouted on about their "deprived childhood" would be hunted down as well !
no hiding place, no forgivness, no pity . I would put everyone of them beyond and f**ked up Human Rights or legal system and then i would take my chance with a jury, knowing i had down London a great service by cleaning the streets of filth like him and them.
this zero tolerance thing of Boris' sounds like a good idea, although not his originally.It has been shown to work in New York. If it was enforced without prejudice and in all areas I think there would be a huge reduction in crime in London at least. The theory being picking up people for minor offences often reveals larger offences, i.e. dodgy car, dodgy bloke about to do dodgy stuff.. A huge part of detterent is about detection, i.e. people think they can get away with it.
That's my view anyway. As for locking them all up, that can't be the answer they need to be trained/educated by incentives even if that means shorter sentences. Am majorly in favour of hard labour even if its pointless, and solitary confinement for anyone who misbehaves drugs (which seems to be huge problem) or otherwise whilst inside.
Military and non military National service or apprenticeships (although they should leave their home environment) I think would help stop the rot earlier, for some as early as 14. Am puzzled why no politicians have jumped on what would be quite a popular policy?
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]No mate if it was your sister or daughter that was the victim what would you do ?
if OB told me that "we have 100% DNa its him" i would want that scum bag dead dead dead. If i went to court and there was any of his possee their i would reap a powerful and just vengenace on everyone one of them assuming i was out of jail long enough to do it and i would hunt down his lawyer and do the same, i would then watch the news and every bleeding heart liberal who spouted on about their "deprived childhood" would be hunted down as well !
no hiding place,
no forgivness,
no pity .
I would put everyone of them beyond and f**ked up Human Rights or legal system and then i would take my chance with a jury, knowing i had down London a great service by cleaning the streets of filth like him and them.
Comments
But we all know the truth, he wont even be 30 by the time he comes out.
Anyway cleverer people than me have failed to sort the worlds problems out, I think I'll be a little more realistic with my wishes;
Bristol City 6 - 0 Palarse
But we all know the truth, he wont even be 30 by the time he comes out.
Anyway cleverer people than me have failed to sort the worlds problems out, I think I'll be a little more realistic with my wishes;
Bristol City 6 - 0 Palarse[/quote]
I think mandatory life sentences are nearer 20 years, if he's 19 now he won't be seeing the outside much before he's 40. Perhaps that's still too soon.
He should stay there until he dies easy to do i dont know why this country doesnt do it. cost should have feck all to do with it tell that to his mother once the stages of grieving kick in at the moment she is coping well but there will be a time when her anger consumes her and she will not understand how this shit can breath he same air as decent normal human beings
http://www.homeofficewatch.com/index.php/2007/02/22/how-long-is-a-life-sentence/
Unless the trail judge recomends x years. You are correct Len, average time served for murder 11/12 years then on licence.
Who ever decided that length deserves a lengthy strtch of bird
Then we need to take the length of the sentance away from these crap judges. The ones that say women deserve rape because of the way they dress, or a peado gets comunity service because he said sorry or a murderer gets 10 years because he had a dumpy flight over from Somalia ! f**k them we need 100% no quarter laid down evry crime has a set minimum sentance.
Judges set the actual sentence but have to do so using "sentencing guidlines" from the Home Office. If a judge sets a sentence that the defence team feels is over the top and out of line with the HO's sentencing guidlines then they can appeal against the sentence. Similarly, the crown can appeal a sentence if they feel it too lenient.
People can demand a change and tougher sentencing but as I said before the process on the political/bureaucratic side becomes as much about maintaining budgets as anything else. The HO does not have an endless pot of money to spend on prisons, perhaps they should have more but as pointed out above there are already more people in prison than ever before and new prisons are already being built.
If you read the HO reports on sentencing then the main thing they weigh up in deciding on prison allocation places (ie whether to build new prisons) is how much it will cost to keep someone in prison compared to the cost that would be incurred to the public (property damage, theft, cost of physical assault) by not putting them away.
The question is this, the 19 year-old kid who killed Jimmy Mizen (who was a classmate of my 15 year old cousin at STM) is obviously a complete fucking nutcase so would the threat of prison really deter him anyway? Would it be any worse than where he is right now? What would he really be missing out on in life? He probably knows he'll never be a bank manager and get a house in the burbs.
I think that the threat of really heavy sentencing WOULD work for certain criminals like "career criminals" like bank robbers and so on who are organised and take into account the likely jail term if they get caught in deciding whether or not they are prepared to take the risk of doing the job. It might also work for drink driving - if the government announced that there was to be an immediate 3-month custodial sentence for drink driving for ANYONE (not just repeat offenders) then there would be an immediate drop in drink driving.
The reason for this is because the potential bank robber or drink driver would be thinking RATIONALLY before committing the crime and weighing up risk vs reward and then making a decision whether to commit the crime based on those factors.
On the other hand, you have to ask whether the sick fucker who killed Jimmy Mizen, or the scum that shot that poor little Scouse kid, are even capable of rational thought or any thought at all for that matter.
Would Jimmy Mizen's killer have been thinking about his likely sentence when he stabbed him in the neck, I doubt it, he would probably have been filled with pure evil and hate.
Fact is, it's a difficult one and there is no single solution.
People have been getting killed by other people for years, decades, centuries, .... whatever is longer than a century. Sometimes there's a "reason", sometimes there ain't. Is it REALLY any different than, say, 50 or 100 years ago - other than the fact that things get reported more easilly and widespread these days?
Saw a quote in the paper today from BJ - the new mayor - saying that "knife crime is the single biggest concern for Londoners today". Is it - really?
Sure it's a concern - one of many - but I would suggest that most people have a lot bigger fish to fry. Still, it makes a nice headline.
Anyway, far too serious for me - anyone got any good jokes?
Prevention is better than cure.
Its my biggest concern walking the streeets of charlton late at night, as I mentioned before a young lad was stabbed outside my flat a few months back... we were only indoors an hour earlier, with Taverns daughter. We could have all become embroiled in it as it took place outside. Luckily she slept through the whole ruckus and the awful screaming and shouting. Luckily i only saw the tail end of it, 3 cowards had just stabbed one lad on the floor and i saw them running away laughing. He lived so it didnt make the paper. tho luckily they did catch the culprits and i believe its been to court.
Anyway what about this event that happened last summer - which some of us spoke about previously - fekk me i love living in charlton but sometimes you gotta think twice.
In daylight
"Youth worker Muhammed Abdirahman, aged 21, of Nightingale Vale, Woolwich, was sentenced to 15 months in prison."
what hope is there if he's teaching our youth?
I dont think it deters real crims , but life meaning life for murder and rape etc. 10 years for stabbing. Its about PUNISHMENT f**k cures herd it all HERD IT ALL. Get them off the streets and let em rot or not inside.
Teaching ? show them the people who have to live with colostomy bags after being stabbed in the stomach. Show them the grief that their mums have to go through when you die or are banged up for years. Show them what stabbing someone with a 10" kitchen knife, or glassing in the face, or a full blooded kick to the face actually does. Get rid of the "liberal studies" tossers with their leather elbows in their jackets and jesus boots on. Get the people who have been stabbed , glassed , done time, get the Mums of the kids stabbed and murdered and put inside to speak to the yoof.
I know exactly where you're coming from and if you've been involved or witnessed something like that then it will obvioulsy have a lasting effect.
However, it's a statistical fact that most victims of this sort of crime are males who are either young or black (or both) - so to come out with a wide-sweeping statement like he did just smacks of jumping on a bandwagon in order to achieve political gain and create a headline or two. But then, he is a politician after all.
Re try and give him 150 years mine. Then Take the Human Rights lawyer and sentance HER yes it is a HER to spend one year with Sutcliffe.
Dear God what a twisted way of using what should be a law to protect us all from abuse not giving the abusers rights !
The message to those who comit the most evil crimes is YOU CAN BEAT THE SYSTEM.
That’s true if we were talking about a fungal infection.
The only way to prevent scum committing crimes is to lock them up before crimes are committed.
What could anyone possibly do for the mind dross that would make a difference? They do not want to live in a community.
was out on bail.
As an aside does anyone else think the photo of him lying on the pavement being given CPR is in poor taste.
I'm not religous but know what you mean. A small comfort for her but something at least maybe.
For all its flaws and slowness I'd still rather than the criminal justice system dealt with scum like this. An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind as Ben Kingsley said.
Who knows? Overcrowded remand prision as well I guess.
if OB told me that "we have 100% DNa its him" i would want that scum bag dead dead dead. If i went to court and there was any of his possee their i would reap a powerful and just vengenace on everyone one of them assuming i was out of jail long enough to do it and i would hunt down his lawyer and do the same, i would then watch the news and every bleeding heart liberal who spouted on about their "deprived childhood" would be hunted down as well !
no hiding place,
no forgivness,
no pity .
I would put everyone of them beyond and f**ked up Human Rights or legal system and then i would take my chance with a jury, knowing i had down London a great service by cleaning the streets of filth like him and them.
Peace and Love to you all xxx
That's my view anyway. As for locking them all up, that can't be the answer they need to be trained/educated by incentives even if that means shorter sentences. Am majorly in favour of hard labour even if its pointless, and solitary confinement for anyone who misbehaves drugs (which seems to be huge problem) or otherwise whilst inside.
Military and non military National service or apprenticeships (although they should leave their home environment) I think would help stop the rot earlier, for some as early as 14. Am puzzled why no politicians have jumped on what would be quite a popular policy?
Is your real name Charles Bronson?