[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Jimmy, it does literally mean an uncontrollable fear of homosexuals and of homosexuality, but the term is generally used for a negative and contemptuous attitude to gay men and lesbians.
Personally I think that some people who are negative about Gay men in particular are afraid as their presence, especially when they are in roles traditionally seen as belonging to "real" or "straight" men such as sportsmen, undermines those people's systems of belief and raises questions for them about their own masculinity.
That is why they feel the need to belittle, dismiss and put down Gay men by re-affirming the prejudice that Gay men are effete, soft or camp. This restores, in their own eyes, their own higher status as heterosexual and therefore "real" men.
You talk more pathetic PC bollocks than anyone else I have ever come across.
Let the poofs fight their own battles, and stop telling everybody why some people have some different views than others and trying to back it up with crap, crap, crap from people who should get a propper job.
So where's the bollocks then Chirpy? It read like a perfectly reasoned argument to me. Rather than having a rant, why don't you be specific about what you disagree with.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Jimmy, it does literally mean an uncontrollable fear of homosexuals and of homosexuality, but the term is generally used for a negative and contemptuous attitude to gay men and lesbians.
Personally I think that some people who are negative about Gay men in particular are afraid as their presence, especially when they are in roles traditionally seen as belonging to "real" or "straight" men such as sportsmen, undermines those people's systems of belief and raises questions for them about their own masculinity.
That is why they feel the need to belittle, dismiss and put down Gay men by re-affirming the prejudice that Gay men are effete, soft or camp. This restores, in their own eyes, their own higher status as heterosexual and therefore "real" men.
You talk more pathetic PC bollocks than anyone else I have ever come across.
Let the poofs fight their own battles, and stop telling everybody why some people have some different views than others and trying to back it up with crap, crap, crap from people who should get a propper job.
So where's the bollocks then Chirpy? It read like a perfectly reasoned argument to me. Rather than having a rant, why don't you be specific about what you disagree with.
He's on a drunken wind up so has no real arguments, just prejudices as his cliche ridden rubbish shows.
I will say that I don't think it is enough to let "poofs (sic) fight their own battles" any more than it would be OK for me to sit back while hearing racist abuse and expect a black person in the crowd deal with it as it is his battle. No it's not. its everyone's battle.
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]Well the term shouldn't be used then. It's daft to call it a phobia. It should be called gayism or something more suitable.
Anyhow I think that some people don't like gay men because they simply don't think it's natural for a man to be shoving his penis up another man's arse. More important is the argument that gay sex spreads HIV quicker than straight sex. I'm not really anti-gay but I do sympathise with those arguments.
By the way, I'm currently a house-husband and baby-carer!
The point of this in the first place anyway was related to Sol Campbell who isn't gay anyway (is he?). How can a straight man really be affected by gay chants - surely you'd just laugh them off.
Not natural? Is sticking your penis into a woman's anus or her mouth natural? But these acts don't seem to draw the same disgust from straight men. What is the charmless expression "Any hole is a goal" Why is that Jimmy?
As for HIV/AIDS there was as much if not more homophobia before it's discovery and most newly identified cases of HIV are transmitted via heterosexual intercourse.
And you answered your own question as to why he can't just laugh the comments when you said (is he?).
Let me give you a little example. You're a house husband and a baby carer. So you don't fulfil the "natural" man's role of bread winner outside the home and are doing "female" work. So how can that be if you are a real man like the rest of us? You can't be a "real" man so, be honest, you must be a nancy boy at least if not a full on queer. But don't worry about it when people start shouting that at you in the street, laughing at you in shops or refusing to let you babysit their children or coach the football team. You're not a poof so you can laugh it off. Can't you?
Henry when they ban the rap singers who sing about death to homosexulas, when they do the same to RADICAL muslim clerics, when they stop some African countries leaders coming here who also say "death to homosexuals" maybe then i would agree with the OB geting involved in footie ------ they will only get in volved as its an easy target --- football that is.
i dont agrue there is a logic within your arguement --------------- mine is not an arguement against --- im just sick to death of being told what i can , say, do. People have to have basic humanity and all deserve basic dignity there has to be a time when using the stick of the law has the reverse affect and creates resentment.
How many of the totaly anti homosexuals think that fem on fem porno is great ? Worked with two lesbians , when i told someone i was going to their evening wedding reception strange the comments i got about "bring us the photos" intrested went off when i explained that the two ladies were built like russian shotputers.
There needs to be an element of common sense when things like this get looked at, football could be dilluted down to a place where i certainly wouldnt be happy going,some of the songs that the yid army sing are fantastically funny and witty but could possibly offend any minority group but there is a place for those at footie imo, howver if it is racist or has an extreme far right conatation then it is has no place at football.
The conplaints aimed at the spuds will be hard to prove and hard to enforce,
Saying that some of the shite that i heard from our fans at scunny away made my blood boil and was said infront of women and children now that needs to policed either by us the fans or the OB but taking legal action is imo ridiculous.
I got pulled by charlton OB years back against tottenham for saying I fecking hate them Yido bstds, the police man told me he deemed it racist i explained that there were 3k of them in the other end saying Yiddo's and yid army so how could i get done for racism as if he took offence to me saying Yido then charlton nick will be full of away fans, he then said it was foul and abusive because i used the word bstd, i accepted that and at that point the north stnd started singing the ref is a wanka and i asked him who out of the home end would be following me out for swearing and he told me to just watch my language, fair and sensible point and the copper backed down and i stayed in
GH, I agree with you especially when you say "People have to have basic humanity and all deserve basic dignity there has to be a time when using the stick of the law has the reverse affect and creates resentment." Education and argument are better than being heavy handed with the law but sometimes that is what is needed.
Maybe football is an easy target but this is a football forum and we are all football fans. Certainly singers and clerics, of whatever religion, should have the law used in the same way against them.
As NLA says you need some common sense. I was at Scunny and some of the songs were funny and harmless IMHO (does your whippet know you're here?) and some were just totally OTT (mainly to do with HIV/AIDS) and not even witty.
Slag Campbell off, call him a judus but draw the line at people hanging from a tree or dying from aids.
And good point about the woman on woman porn. All the "it's unnatural" brigade suddenly find gay sex OK then!
Henry Irving
Not natural? Is sticking your penis into a woman's anus or her mouth natural? [/b]
As Henry is winning this argument hands down, can I lighten the mood by saying that smashing a lady's backdoors in is great. Just super. I, for one would be very disappointed if the powers that be want to take this away from us. Blowies are smashing too. Political correctness should not be allowed to go mad.
Henry Irving
Not natural? Is sticking your penis into a woman's anus or her mouth natural?
As Henry is winning this argument hands down, can I lighten the mood by saying that smashing a lady's backdoors in is great. Just super. I, for one would be very disappointed if the powers that be want to take this away from us. Blowies are smashing too. Political correctness should not be allowed to go mad.
Tch tch Henry, you must stop these wild accusations. Class A drugs one day, Alcohol the next. Where do you get this from? Your own little life?
I'd be a little more careful if I were you.
1. He's earning how ever many K a week - If he can't take a bit of abuse, give up the job - he will be a long time out of it. I bet he would happily take it again then! 2. The ob & FA get involved in this just like they did with the racism in Madrid to England players back in 04 or 05. They did not give a F**k about the fans in the ground (woman, children etc) getting beaten senseless by the Spansih ob!! - Maybe when they help us (the fans) out, i'll give a monkeys! 3. He committed the ultimate sin in football terms - was he that thick that he didn't expect this kind of abuse! 4. Spurs have been singing these exact songs since it happened in 01 I think - and only now it all gets blown up! Why? - need some arrest stats do they!! 5. See GH's post about the rappers etc - one rule for football and one rule for everyone else as usual. 6. How they can ban someone for singing a song is beyond me, and the reason why so many are giving up on the game they grew up watching. 7. Is this the first time a "nasty" song has EVER been sung? NO of course not. 8. There is so much going on in England that the police need to worry about - not a drunken song about a footballer for 90mins on a Saturday!
Sorry I just don't get most of the messages of disgust!
[cite]Posted By: The Organiser[/cite]My god, what has the world come to.
Some people really need to get a grip.
1. He's earning how ever many K a week - If he can't take a bit of abuse, give up the job - he will be a long time out of it. I bet he would happily take it again then!
2. The ob & FA get involved in this just like they did with the racism in Madrid to England players back in 04 or 05. They did not give a F**k about the fans in the ground (woman, children etc) getting beaten senseless by the Spansih ob!! - Maybe when they help us (the fans) out, i'll give a monkeys!
3. He committed the ultimate sin in football terms - was he that thick that he didn't expect this kind of abuse!
4. Spurs have been singing these exact songs since it happened in 01 I think - and only now it all gets blown up! Why? - need some arrest stats do they!!
5. See GH's post about the rappers etc - one rule for football and one rule for everyone else as usual.
6. How they can ban someone for singing a song is beyond me, and the reason why so many are giving up on the game they grew up watching.
7. Is this the first time a "nasty" song has EVER been sung? NO of course not.
8. There is so much going on in England that the police need to worry about - not a drunken song about a footballer for 90mins on a Saturday!
Sorry I just don't get most of the messages of disgust!
So what that he earns decent money, and so what if Spurs fans have been doing this for a dogs age, it's still wrong, and it's a song about Lynching and homophobia.
The Or mate we live if differant times --- u can loose ur house---- ur job----- scum bagsrule the streets----- u can loose ur life savings------but lets make areal ye ha over footie.
One day some one with aot of dosh will take some of this bollox on it court re EU law and i think they will win. Its down to the interpritation of the Human Rights (sorry AFKA know those words r tabboo) re freedom of expression.
[cite]Posted By: The Organiser[/cite]My god, what has the world come to.
Some people really need to get a grip.
1. He's earning how ever many K a week - If he can't take a bit of abuse, give up the job - he will be a long time out of it. I bet he would happily take it again then!
Sorry I just don't get most of the messages of disgust!
Not sure what he earns qualifies him to be abused in any manner , racist or homophobic to be honest.
Yeah granted what he did to Spurs he deserves being booed with every touch.
[quote][cite]Posted By: The Organiser[/cite]My god, what has the world come to.
Some people really need to get a grip.
1. He's earning how ever many K a week - If he can't take a bit of abuse, give up the job - he will be a long time out of it. I bet he would happily take it again then! 2. The ob & FA get involved in this just like they did with the racism in Madrid to England players back in 04 or 05. They did not give a F**k about the fans in the ground (woman, children etc) getting beaten senseless by the Spansih ob!! - Maybe when they help us (the fans) out, i'll give a monkeys! 3. He committed the ultimate sin in football terms - was he that thick that he didn't expect this kind of abuse! 4. Spurs have been singing these exact songs since it happened in 01 I think - and only now it all gets blown up! Why? - need some arrest stats do they!! 5. See GH's post about the rappers etc - one rule for football and one rule for everyone else as usual. 6. How they can ban someone for singing a song is beyond me, and the reason why so many are giving up on the game they grew up watching. 7. Is this the first time a "nasty" song has EVER been sung? NO of course not. 8. There is so much going on in England that the police need to worry about - not a drunken song about a footballer for 90mins on a Saturday!
Sorry I just don't get most of the messages of disgust![/quote]
So..taking all that into consideration you think it's acceptable for him to get abused?
Football might get judged a little more harshly than some other sports and fields, but two wrongs don't make a right. A few years ago racist abuse was common place at football, and regardless of whether society as a rule has racism "football" was right to tackle the problem. I don't much care if Sol Campbell earns big money or whether there are homophobic rappers out there - that is a total non-sequitur in this debate.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]The Or mate we live if differant times --- u can loose ur house---- ur job
scum bagsrule the streets
u can loose ur life savings
but lets make areal ye ha over footie.
One day some one with aot of dosh will take some of this bollox on it court re EU law and i think they will win. Its down to the interpritation of the Human Rights (sorry AFKA know those words r tabboo) re freedom of expression.
I agree GH....it's how the world is nowadays....I have found the following out to my own regret.......
You can feel happy and no one sees your pleasure.
You can be angry and no one sees your pain.
You can be anxious and no one sees your distress.
You can be sad and no one sees your sorrow.
But have a wank on a bus and every f****er sees you.
Just because the bloke over the road lets his dog crap on the pavement doesn't make it right for you to let your let your hound dump all over the street. There's plenty of people trying to deal with homophobia in rap music - many of them are the same people pressuring the FA to get something done here.
Sol Campbell hasn't really done much to help himself over the years, but anyone who defends Spurs fans' "right" to sing that really should take a good, hard look at themselves.
Sol Campbell betrayed Spurs fans in the way he left rather like Danny Murphy betrayed us.
He cannot complain at being slated for that. In my opinion, whilst the song is undeniably "non pc," the motivation behind it is an attack on Campbell himself and not an attack on mentally disturbed, black or homosexual people.
I wonder whether any of those complaining sing "Wheels on the Bus" to Palace fans which is far worse in my opinion as somebody actually died or hissed at Spurs fans when we played them? Mind you racism against Jews is ok according to Ken Livingstone's behaviour so I probably shouldn't raise that.
To use an old fashioned phrase a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]He cannot complain at being slated for that. In my opinion, whilst the song is undeniably "non pc," the motivation behind it is an attack on Campbell himself and not an attack on mentally disturbed, black or homosexual people.
How can you possibly separate the two though? Racism is racism, homophobia is homophobia, belittling mental ilness is belittling mental illness no-matter who it is aimed at and for what reason. And tbh, I'm white, straight and don't personally know anyone with HIV or a mental illness but I find it extremely offensive.
Mortimerican said "As Henry is winning this argument hands down, can I lighten the mood by saying that smashing a lady's backdoors in is great. Just super. I, for one would be very disappointed if the powers that be want to take this away from us. Blowies are smashing too. Political correctness should not be allowed to go mad."
All good between consenting adults I say.
Chirpy, it's "freedom of speech" If you're not a junkie alchy then you can, by your own logic, just laugh it off.
Or are you suggesting that people should show restraint about what they say about others? make your mind up.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]He cannot complain at being slated for that. In my opinion, whilst the song is undeniably "non pc," the motivation behind it is an attack on Campbell himself and not an attack on mentally disturbed, black or homosexual people.
How can you possibly separate the two though? Racism is racism, homophobia is homophobia, belittling mental ilness is belittling mental illness no-matter who it is aimed at and for what reason. And tbh, I'm white, straight and don't personally know anyone with HIV or a mental illness but I find it extremely offensive.
In my opinion it is all about intent.
The law differentiates between murder and manslaughter but one could argue that the end product is the same with both; a dead body.
Anybody with the most rudimentary knowledge of football knows that Spurs fans hate Campbell for going to Arsenal and that any songs directed at him are addressing that fact rather than wider issues.
All I'm saying is that each case should be judged on its own merit. I'm certainly not condoning some of what happens at football grounds. I was disgusted to be a Charlton fan at Selhurst Park 20 odd years ago when our fans threw bananas at Carlton Fairweather and John Fashanu. The motivation then was clearly racist in intent and it was an atmosphere I wanted no part of and indeed I rarely went to Selhurst after that match. I'd be lying if I said the race issue was the sole reason i stopped going but it was certainly a significant part of the reason.
To answer your question directly INTENT is how i would separate the two.
Thats a fair point Len, but you can't just let it go because the Spurs fans 'meant no harm'. Rather like manslaughter, there have to be consequences to the actions becausen whether this lot were too thick to realise it not, there are wider implications to these things.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]Thats a fair point Len, but you can't just let it go because the Spurs fans 'meant no harm'. Rather like manslaughter, there have to be consequences to the actions becausen whether this lot were too thick to realise it not, there are wider implications to these things.
The best way to deal with it is to ignore it and not give it the oxygen of publicity. It is now in the public domain that the chanting got to Campbell so in all probability other groups of fans will also sing it.
As I said above that will then make a mountain out of a molehill as what was a localised Spurs issue will all too quickly go national.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Sol Campbell betrayed Spurs fans in the way he left rather like Danny Murphy betrayed us.
.
Yeah Len,
Sulzeer Campbell born within a few miles of Tottenham, he was there as a pro for almost 9 years and a trainee before that, he played over 300 games for Spurs, they got NOTHING for him.
Danny Murphy, born in NW England, with us for less than 1 1/2 years, played 64 games for CAFC, we got £2M for him.
I can't believe we haven't hunted him down for such treachery! ;-)
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Sol Campbell betrayed Spurs fans in the way he left rather like Danny Murphy betrayed us.
.
Yeah Len,
Sulzeer Campbell born within a few miles of Tottenham, he was there as a pro for almost 9 years and a trainee before that, he played over 300 games for Spurs, they got NOTHING for him.
Danny Murphy, born in NW England, with us for less than 1 1/2 years, played 64 games for CAFC, we got £2M for him.
I can't believe we haven't hunted him down for such treachery! ;-)
My word you really hate Murphy don't you?
The point I'm making is that as Charlton fans many of us resented how he left (other than those who used it as another stick to beat Curbs with:-) ). There were many choruses of "you can stick your Danny Murphy up your arse" as I recall and had he returned to The Valley as a player for another club he would have (and probably still would) justifiably received a hostile reception.
As you correctly point out Campbell's betrayal was far more significant and thus the Spurs fans are justifiably going to feel much more vehemence towards him.
[quote][cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds So..taking all that into consideration you think it's acceptable for him to get abused?
Football might get judged a little more harshly than some other sports and fields, but two wrongs don't make a right. A few years ago racist abuse was common place at football, and regardless of whether society as a rule has racism "football" was right to tackle the problem. I don't much care if Sol Campbell earns big money or whether there are homophobic rappers out there - that is a total non-sequitur in this debate.[/quote]
BFR,
Taking all that into account I could not give a flying f**k if he got abused or not and think there are far more important things to be worrying about in life. Do you honestly think Sol's sitting in his home tonight worrying about it. Is he hell.
If this was the first time this had happened ever then it might be worth debating but sick sick chants have been happening at football for donkeys years. Maybe im sick but for me its part of the attraction of the great game - terrace banter. Maybe im just more thick skinned than most. Players, fans, officials have taken a lot worse than Sol took for years. You should watch non leage football where it's muh more personal and in your face.
I just don't buy all this feeling sorry for a professional footballer earning millions who gets some sick stick for 180mins of a year (two spurs v arse games), ecspecially someone who f****d there own club over like Campbell did.
Jennings went from Spurs to arsenal. He got appluded on his return because he went the about it in the right way. Im no spurs lover but Campbell deserves everything he gets in my opinion.
And Redknapp takes the piss. Has he not heard the vile coming from the stands at a pompey v saints game!!
Just read some Cof E vicar chap has said something along the lines of -- all male homosexuals should be tattooed with the word Sodomite on their foreheads ! So we have rappers, religous zealots and some countries governments where they say this shit but its the dear old footie fan who is going to court.
Ok its wrong -- ok it dont make it right that its said at footie but lets get one thing 100% clear the Old Bill geting involved has every thing to do with an easy target and help their "crime clear up rate" and 100% f**k all to do with saving the moral fabric of our society.
Comments
So where's the bollocks then Chirpy? It read like a perfectly reasoned argument to me. Rather than having a rant, why don't you be specific about what you disagree with.
He's on a drunken wind up so has no real arguments, just prejudices as his cliche ridden rubbish shows.
I will say that I don't think it is enough to let "poofs (sic) fight their own battles" any more than it would be OK for me to sit back while hearing racist abuse and expect a black person in the crowd deal with it as it is his battle. No it's not. its everyone's battle.
Not natural? Is sticking your penis into a woman's anus or her mouth natural? But these acts don't seem to draw the same disgust from straight men. What is the charmless expression "Any hole is a goal" Why is that Jimmy?
As for HIV/AIDS there was as much if not more homophobia before it's discovery and most newly identified cases of HIV are transmitted via heterosexual intercourse.
And you answered your own question as to why he can't just laugh the comments when you said (is he?).
Let me give you a little example. You're a house husband and a baby carer. So you don't fulfil the "natural" man's role of bread winner outside the home and are doing "female" work. So how can that be if you are a real man like the rest of us? You can't be a "real" man so, be honest, you must be a nancy boy at least if not a full on queer. But don't worry about it when people start shouting that at you in the street, laughing at you in shops or refusing to let you babysit their children or coach the football team. You're not a poof so you can laugh it off. Can't you?
i dont agrue there is a logic within your arguement --------------- mine is not an arguement against --- im just sick to death of being told what i can , say, do. People have to have basic humanity and all deserve basic dignity there has to be a time when using the stick of the law has the reverse affect and creates resentment.
How many of the totaly anti homosexuals think that fem on fem porno is great ? Worked with two lesbians , when i told someone i was going to their evening wedding reception strange the comments i got about "bring us the photos" intrested went off when i explained that the two ladies were built like russian shotputers.
The conplaints aimed at the spuds will be hard to prove and hard to enforce,
Saying that some of the shite that i heard from our fans at scunny away made my blood boil and was said infront of women and children now that needs to policed either by us the fans or the OB but taking legal action is imo ridiculous.
I got pulled by charlton OB years back against tottenham for saying I fecking hate them Yido bstds,
the police man told me he deemed it racist i explained that there were 3k of them in the other end saying Yiddo's and yid army so how could i get done for racism as if he took offence to me saying Yido then charlton nick will be full of away fans,
he then said it was foul and abusive because i used the word bstd, i accepted that and at that point the north stnd started singing the ref is a wanka and i asked him who out of the home end would be following me out for swearing and he told me to just watch my language, fair and sensible point and the copper backed down and i stayed in
Maybe football is an easy target but this is a football forum and we are all football fans. Certainly singers and clerics, of whatever religion, should have the law used in the same way against them.
As NLA says you need some common sense. I was at Scunny and some of the songs were funny and harmless IMHO (does your whippet know you're here?) and some were just totally OTT (mainly to do with HIV/AIDS) and not even witty.
Slag Campbell off, call him a judus but draw the line at people hanging from a tree or dying from aids.
And good point about the woman on woman porn. All the "it's unnatural" brigade suddenly find gay sex OK then!
As Henry is winning this argument hands down, can I lighten the mood by saying that smashing a lady's backdoors in is great. Just super. I, for one would be very disappointed if the powers that be want to take this away from us. Blowies are smashing too. Political correctness should not be allowed to go mad.
Very funny.
Tch tch Henry, you must stop these wild accusations. Class A drugs one day, Alcohol the next. Where do you get this from? Your own little life?
I'd be a little more careful if I were you.
Yeah as if they are really lesbians!
Some people really need to get a grip.
1. He's earning how ever many K a week - If he can't take a bit of abuse, give up the job - he will be a long time out of it. I bet he would happily take it again then!
2. The ob & FA get involved in this just like they did with the racism in Madrid to England players back in 04 or 05. They did not give a F**k about the fans in the ground (woman, children etc) getting beaten senseless by the Spansih ob!! - Maybe when they help us (the fans) out, i'll give a monkeys!
3. He committed the ultimate sin in football terms - was he that thick that he didn't expect this kind of abuse!
4. Spurs have been singing these exact songs since it happened in 01 I think - and only now it all gets blown up! Why? - need some arrest stats do they!!
5. See GH's post about the rappers etc - one rule for football and one rule for everyone else as usual.
6. How they can ban someone for singing a song is beyond me, and the reason why so many are giving up on the game they grew up watching.
7. Is this the first time a "nasty" song has EVER been sung? NO of course not.
8. There is so much going on in England that the police need to worry about - not a drunken song about a footballer for 90mins on a Saturday!
Sorry I just don't get most of the messages of disgust!
So what that he earns decent money, and so what if Spurs fans have been doing this for a dogs age, it's still wrong, and it's a song about Lynching and homophobia.
Woe is the nice the little Spurs fan
One day some one with aot of dosh will take some of this bollox on it court re EU law and i think they will win. Its down to the interpritation of the Human Rights (sorry AFKA know those words r tabboo) re freedom of expression.
Not sure what he earns qualifies him to be abused in any manner , racist or homophobic to be honest.
Yeah granted what he did to Spurs he deserves being booed with every touch.
Some people really need to get a grip.
1. He's earning how ever many K a week - If he can't take a bit of abuse, give up the job - he will be a long time out of it. I bet he would happily take it again then!
2. The ob & FA get involved in this just like they did with the racism in Madrid to England players back in 04 or 05. They did not give a F**k about the fans in the ground (woman, children etc) getting beaten senseless by the Spansih ob!! - Maybe when they help us (the fans) out, i'll give a monkeys!
3. He committed the ultimate sin in football terms - was he that thick that he didn't expect this kind of abuse!
4. Spurs have been singing these exact songs since it happened in 01 I think - and only now it all gets blown up! Why? - need some arrest stats do they!!
5. See GH's post about the rappers etc - one rule for football and one rule for everyone else as usual.
6. How they can ban someone for singing a song is beyond me, and the reason why so many are giving up on the game they grew up watching.
7. Is this the first time a "nasty" song has EVER been sung? NO of course not.
8. There is so much going on in England that the police need to worry about - not a drunken song about a footballer for 90mins on a Saturday!
Sorry I just don't get most of the messages of disgust![/quote]
So..taking all that into consideration you think it's acceptable for him to get abused?
Football might get judged a little more harshly than some other sports and fields, but two wrongs don't make a right. A few years ago racist abuse was common place at football, and regardless of whether society as a rule has racism "football" was right to tackle the problem. I don't much care if Sol Campbell earns big money or whether there are homophobic rappers out there - that is a total non-sequitur in this debate.
dosnt matter if the agruement is week (or not) its part of it.
Times article on abuse at Football
I agree GH....it's how the world is nowadays....I have found the following out to my own regret.......
You can feel happy and no one sees your pleasure.
You can be angry and no one sees your pain.
You can be anxious and no one sees your distress.
You can be sad and no one sees your sorrow.
But have a wank on a bus and every f****er sees you.
Sol Campbell hasn't really done much to help himself over the years, but anyone who defends Spurs fans' "right" to sing that really should take a good, hard look at themselves.
He cannot complain at being slated for that. In my opinion, whilst the song is undeniably "non pc," the motivation behind it is an attack on Campbell himself and not an attack on mentally disturbed, black or homosexual people.
I wonder whether any of those complaining sing "Wheels on the Bus" to Palace fans which is far worse in my opinion as somebody actually died or hissed at Spurs fans when we played them? Mind you racism against Jews is ok according to Ken Livingstone's behaviour so I probably shouldn't raise that.
To use an old fashioned phrase a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.
How can you possibly separate the two though? Racism is racism, homophobia is homophobia, belittling mental ilness is belittling mental illness no-matter who it is aimed at and for what reason. And tbh, I'm white, straight and don't personally know anyone with HIV or a mental illness but I find it extremely offensive.
All good between consenting adults I say.
Chirpy, it's "freedom of speech" If you're not a junkie alchy then you can, by your own logic, just laugh it off.
Or are you suggesting that people should show restraint about what they say about others? make your mind up.
In my opinion it is all about intent.
The law differentiates between murder and manslaughter but one could argue that the end product is the same with both; a dead body.
Anybody with the most rudimentary knowledge of football knows that Spurs fans hate Campbell for going to Arsenal and that any songs directed at him are addressing that fact rather than wider issues.
All I'm saying is that each case should be judged on its own merit. I'm certainly not condoning some of what happens at football grounds. I was disgusted to be a Charlton fan at Selhurst Park 20 odd years ago when our fans threw bananas at Carlton Fairweather and John Fashanu. The motivation then was clearly racist in intent and it was an atmosphere I wanted no part of and indeed I rarely went to Selhurst after that match. I'd be lying if I said the race issue was the sole reason i stopped going but it was certainly a significant part of the reason.
To answer your question directly INTENT is how i would separate the two.
The best way to deal with it is to ignore it and not give it the oxygen of publicity. It is now in the public domain that the chanting got to Campbell so in all probability other groups of fans will also sing it.
As I said above that will then make a mountain out of a molehill as what was a localised Spurs issue will all too quickly go national.
Sulzeer Campbell born within a few miles of Tottenham, he was there as a pro for almost 9 years and a trainee before that, he played over 300 games for Spurs, they got NOTHING for him.
Danny Murphy, born in NW England, with us for less than 1 1/2 years, played 64 games for CAFC, we got £2M for him.
I can't believe we haven't hunted him down for such treachery! ;-)
My word you really hate Murphy don't you?
The point I'm making is that as Charlton fans many of us resented how he left (other than those who used it as another stick to beat Curbs with:-) ). There were many choruses of "you can stick your Danny Murphy up your arse" as I recall and had he returned to The Valley as a player for another club he would have (and probably still would) justifiably received a hostile reception.
As you correctly point out Campbell's betrayal was far more significant and thus the Spurs fans are justifiably going to feel much more vehemence towards him.
So..taking all that into consideration you think it's acceptable for him to get abused?
Football might get judged a little more harshly than some other sports and fields, but two wrongs don't make a right. A few years ago racist abuse was common place at football, and regardless of whether society as a rule has racism "football" was right to tackle the problem. I don't much care if Sol Campbell earns big money or whether there are homophobic rappers out there - that is a total non-sequitur in this debate.[/quote]
BFR,
Taking all that into account I could not give a flying f**k if he got abused or not and think there are far more important things to be worrying about in life. Do you honestly think Sol's sitting in his home tonight worrying about it. Is he hell.
If this was the first time this had happened ever then it might be worth debating but sick sick chants have been happening at football for donkeys years. Maybe im sick but for me its part of the attraction of the great game - terrace banter. Maybe im just more thick skinned than most.
Players, fans, officials have taken a lot worse than Sol took for years. You should watch non leage football where it's muh more personal and in your face.
I just don't buy all this feeling sorry for a professional footballer earning millions who gets some sick stick for 180mins of a year (two spurs v arse games), ecspecially someone who f****d there own club over like Campbell did.
Jennings went from Spurs to arsenal. He got appluded on his return because he went the about it in the right way. Im no spurs lover but Campbell deserves everything he gets in my opinion.
And Redknapp takes the piss. Has he not heard the vile coming from the stands at a pompey v saints game!!
And Henry, isn't the theatre (luvvy) filled with "colourful" people ?
Ok its wrong -- ok it dont make it right that its said at footie but lets get one thing 100% clear the Old Bill geting involved has every thing to do with an easy target and help their "crime clear up rate" and 100% f**k all to do with saving the moral fabric of our society.