[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Just read some Cof E vicar chap has said something along the lines of -- all male homosexuals should be tattooed with the word Sodomite on their foreheads ! So we have rappers, religous zealots and some countries governments where they say this shit but its the dear old footie fan who is going to court.
I believe he has apologised and regrets saying it.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
The best way to deal with it is to ignore it and not give it the oxygen of publicity. It is now in the public domain that the chanting got to Campbell so in all probability other groups of fans will also sing it.
As I said above that will then make a mountain out of a molehill as what was a localised Spurs issue will all too quickly go national.
I think by 'ignoring' things like this have made them escalate to how they have now. It happens, brushing it under the carpet and thinking its gone away won't work. Did anyone watch panorama on Monday? I hate panorama as its a "sensational news story for the thick" but out of a 30 minute show i'm sure at least some of it was true, which is very worrying.
If someone insulted me, regardless of whether i got paid 2k a year or 100k a week, i still wouldn't necessarily deserve it. I understand that what he did wasn't particularly nice for spurs fans, but to be honest, they winge about anything, no one deserves that kind of vitriol for improving their career, he just could have gone about it in a different way.
It should go national, everyone should be made aware of what horrible people there are around in the world today. I couldn't believe how often you hear out in the pub a comment by someone that is so wrong and no one says anything or it is laughed off.
Suzzii sorta agree mate but on a scale of "horrible people" calling someone a bad name isnt that high (wrong tho it may be) surely we should have higher priorities than this ?
Poverty domestic violence AIDs Street violence war famine debt relief Peodos (human rights) mass movement of people so on so on so on
and we think that calling some one a bad name is an issue ?
So its going to come down to us only being allowed to sing songs like this in future:
"Sol, Sol wherever you may be, you're a nasty man who up-set me, and we dont like you much because you're so nas-ty, we sing this song cos we're angry"
It will be interesting to see how many Spurs fans start complaining now when opposition fans start singing 'Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz' and hissing gas noises at every home game.
Perhaps it all comes down to personal choice. If you would be happy to have several thousand people singing about your sexuality or colour of skin in a derogatory manner because of decisions you've made in your life then you may wish to do the same to someone else. You should also be prepared to pay the possible consequences of your beliefs which in this case due to the society we live in may involve legal action.
I would not choose to join in such abuse as I don't think that using racism and homophobia as a means of judging others is a positive contribution to society.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Suzzii sorta agree mate but on a scale of "horrible people" calling someone a bad name isnt that high (wrong tho it may be) surely we should have higher priorities than this ?
Poverty
domestic violence
AIDs
Street violence
war
famine
debt relief
Peodos (human rights)
mass movement of people
so on so on so on
and we think that calling some one a bad name is an issue ?
So i have to pick one from that list to be bothered about and try to iradicate them one by one? how about everyone pull together and try to eliminate all of them as 'issues' by learning where its right and wrong to say certain things. There are kids that aren't being taught the rights and wrongs. My g'dad sometimes says some dodgy things at football, we try to educate him to change what he says, and he does listen for a bit, but essentially its children that should know what to say, and there are people younger than me with totally wrong views which is the worrying thing. It may seem a small issue to you, maybe because you're not affected, I don't know, I'm not affected personally, but I strongly disagree with brushing the smaller things under the carpet as there are more major things out there at the same time. whats major to you, could be massive to someone else. why not raise the case of a high profile football star to educate young kids into knowing what is right and what is wrong?
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Just read some Cof E vicar chap has said something along the lines of -- all male homosexuals should be tattooed with the word Sodomite on their foreheads ! So we have rappers, religous zealots and some countries governments where they say this shit but its the dear old footie fan who is going to court.
I believe he has apologised and regrets saying it.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
The best way to deal with it is to ignore it and not give it the oxygen of publicity. It is now in the public domain that the chanting got to Campbell so in all probability other groups of fans will also sing it.
As I said above that will then make a mountain out of a molehill as what was a localised Spurs issue will all too quickly go national.
I think by 'ignoring' things like this have made them escalate to how they have now. It happens, brushing it under the carpet and thinking its gone away won't work. Did anyone watch panorama on Monday? I hate panorama as its a "sensational news story for the thick" but out of a 30 minute show i'm sure at least some of it was true, which is very worrying.
If someone insulted me, regardless of whether i got paid 2k a year or 100k a week, i still wouldn't necessarily deserve it. I understand that what he did wasn't particularly nice for spurs fans, but to be honest, they winge about anything, no one deserves that kind of vitriol for improving their career, he just could have gone about it in a different way.
It should go national, everyone should be made aware of what horrible people there are around in the world today. I couldn't believe how often you hear out in the pub a comment by someone that is so wrong and no one says anything or it is laughed off.
Politicians from the mainstream parties often say that the best way to deal with the BNP is to deny it the oxygen of publicity. If it is truly believed that there were sinister undertones behind the Campbell song then surely the same approach should be adopted?
The BNP hate the disabled (mental or physical), non-whites and homosexuals which are precisely the sentiments allegedly present in the Campbell song.
so every spurs fan that joined in that song is now amember of the BNp FFS !!
Sco i dont think that anyone has said that what ever was sung sent out a positive message
so is the only thing we are allowed to sing and OB wont get involved " weeeeeeeeeee are greeeeeeeeeeeeeen" " eat more veg" " hug a hoody"
The whole point of most footie songs is either support for your team or to get a rise out of them. There are an awful lot of songs that a great many people have sung (peeps on here as well) that make u shudder in todays UK. Times have changed its a question of where common humanity comes in and freedom to express ends------a huge question and one i think we are aproaching in the UK.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]so every spurs fan that joined in that song is now amember of the BNp FFS !!
Sco i dont think that anyone has said that what ever was sung sent out a positive message
so is the only thing we are allowed to sing and OB wont get involved " weeeeeeeeeee are greeeeeeeeeeeeeen" " eat more veg" " hug a hoody"
The whole point of most footie songs is either support for your team or to get a rise out of them. There are an awful lot of songs that a great many people have sung (peeps on here as well) that make u shudder in todays UK. Times have changed its a question of where common humanity comes in and freedom to express ends
a huge question and one i think we are aproaching in the UK.
You misunderstand me.
I think far too much fuss is being made about the song and I'm using the approach politicians advocate to the BNP as an example of the inconsistency if the song truly is as bad as is been made out.
perhaps far too much fuss is being made as it doesn't effect you? if it was about you personally maybe you would kick up a bit of a fuss? perhaps its right to make a deal out of it, so that kids do grow up to learn these things are wrong.
At the palace game, i brought a friend from work, who has been a Charlton ST holder for many years, but always sat in the lower west and didn tknow a few of the songs. she was clapping along and singing when she could and I was teaching her some words to some songs she didnt know and then she joined in with the "wheels on the bus" song (well the bits she could) and I said "some of us don't sing that one" and she asked why and I explained the story.
so, she learnt something and she would pass that on if she heard others singing it. Thats surely how we should educate others? by raising awareness to something. I think bringing the BNP and references to them are slightly extreme, as polititians don't always say the right things, and I'm personally not one for "ignoring and hoping it will be forgotton". Same as songs about hugging each other and eating lentils isnt really giving this debate the credence it deserves.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]perhaps far too much fuss is being made as it doesn't effect you? if it was about you personally maybe you would kick up a bit of a fuss? perhaps its right to make a deal out of it, so that kids do grow up to learn these things are wrong.
At the palace game, i brought a friend from work, who has been a Charlton ST holder for many years, but always sat in the lower west and didn tknow a few of the songs. she was clapping along and singing when she could and I was teaching her some words to some songs she didnt know and then she joined in with the "wheels on the bus" song (well the bits she could) and I said "some of us don't sing that one" and she asked why and I explained the story.
so, she learnt something and she would pass that on if she heard others singing it. Thats surely how we should educate others? by raising awareness to something. I think bringing the BNP and references to them are slightly extreme, as polititians don't always say the right things, and I'm personally not one for "ignoring and hoping it will be forgotton". Same as songs about hugging each other and eating lentils isnt really giving this debate the credence it deserves.
I'm also not one for ..."ignoring and hoping it will be forgotton".... but I am one for seeing things in their proper context and not seeing things that aren't there in a given situation.
I agree with you about Wheels on the Bus and have said as much further up the thread. I have also commented on the evil racism I've seen displayed by a charlton crowd at Selhurst. I also accept that the right example should be set to kids as you mention.
However, having said all that, this particular incident was about the antipathy of Spurs fans towards Sol Campbell. No more no less and in my opinion that is the way it should have stayed.
I bet you a pint or whatever you drink (within reason:-) ) that because of the publicity this has received the fans of other clubs start singing this to Campbell now that it is known that he doesn't like it.
If you are a poof and get called a poof, where is the probelm? Poof is not a word like C**N or N***R is it?
What about Four Poofs and a Piano?
You cannot compare racisim with this. I deplore racisim.
They call themselves GAY, black people do not call themselves N****S do they?
[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite] black people do not call themselves N****S do they?
Not strictly true, what about NWA?
Like anything, I feel a lot of racist, homophobic abuse is directly related to the context it is being said/chanted/written etc and who it is said to. I call a couple of my gay friends poofs but i'd never go up to a random person who I knew/though was gay and say it.
NWA, I knew someone would bring them up. Well they only call themselves NWA these days, not the full name. Offended a lot of people and rightly so.
Four Poofs and a Piano, not FPAAP.
It's wrong. The song is offensive and no amount of pretending that it's not is just people being obtuse. What action should or should not be taken is a point for debate.
This is not a competition to see which of the world's problems is the worse, the winner then getting all the attention and funding to be solved. This is a football forum so a football related issue will be given greater prominence.
Following the logic of "there are bigger problems in the world so forget this" we would never be able to talk about too many CCTV cameras or the lack of celebration of English Culture or why Arsenal are crap.
PS please note that the above referance to "sell arsenal" has nothing to do with rent boys ! any offence to Graham Norton`s mafia may or may not be intended !!!
just found this, what a feisty debate !! If I were Sol Campbell it wouldn't bother me, whether I were gay or not. I'd just ignore it and rise above it safe in the knowledge that those singing it were sad people with dreary lives who were really just jealous af the fact that I am a professional footballer on 100k pw and they were not.
Strange way to find out that my brother is really a nancy boy, and French to boot !!
Let me give you a little example. You're a house husband and a baby carer. So you don't fulfil the "natural" man's role of bread winner outside the home and are doing "female" work. So how can that be if you are a real man like the rest of us? You can't be a "real" man so, be honest, you must be a nancy boy at least if not a full on queer. But don't worry about it when people start shouting that at you in the street, laughing at you in shops or refusing to let you babysit their children or coach the football team. You're not a poof so you can laugh it off. Can't you?
Comments
I believe he has apologised and regrets saying it.
I think by 'ignoring' things like this have made them escalate to how they have now. It happens, brushing it under the carpet and thinking its gone away won't work. Did anyone watch panorama on Monday? I hate panorama as its a "sensational news story for the thick" but out of a 30 minute show i'm sure at least some of it was true, which is very worrying.
If someone insulted me, regardless of whether i got paid 2k a year or 100k a week, i still wouldn't necessarily deserve it. I understand that what he did wasn't particularly nice for spurs fans, but to be honest, they winge about anything, no one deserves that kind of vitriol for improving their career, he just could have gone about it in a different way.
It should go national, everyone should be made aware of what horrible people there are around in the world today. I couldn't believe how often you hear out in the pub a comment by someone that is so wrong and no one says anything or it is laughed off.
Poverty
domestic violence
AIDs
Street violence
war
famine
debt relief
Peodos (human rights)
mass movement of people
so on so on so on
and we think that calling some one a bad name is an issue ?
"Sol, Sol wherever you may be, you're a nasty man who up-set me, and we dont like you much because you're so nas-ty, we sing this song cos we're angry"
It will be interesting to see how many Spurs fans start complaining now when opposition fans start singing 'Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz' and hissing gas noises at every home game.
The new PoetLaurete ?
Spurs has been shit since the day you sacked me nans brother as manager !!
I would not choose to join in such abuse as I don't think that using racism and homophobia as a means of judging others is a positive contribution to society.
So i have to pick one from that list to be bothered about and try to iradicate them one by one? how about everyone pull together and try to eliminate all of them as 'issues' by learning where its right and wrong to say certain things. There are kids that aren't being taught the rights and wrongs. My g'dad sometimes says some dodgy things at football, we try to educate him to change what he says, and he does listen for a bit, but essentially its children that should know what to say, and there are people younger than me with totally wrong views which is the worrying thing. It may seem a small issue to you, maybe because you're not affected, I don't know, I'm not affected personally, but I strongly disagree with brushing the smaller things under the carpet as there are more major things out there at the same time. whats major to you, could be massive to someone else. why not raise the case of a high profile football star to educate young kids into knowing what is right and what is wrong?
Politicians from the mainstream parties often say that the best way to deal with the BNP is to deny it the oxygen of publicity. If it is truly believed that there were sinister undertones behind the Campbell song then surely the same approach should be adopted?
The BNP hate the disabled (mental or physical), non-whites and homosexuals which are precisely the sentiments allegedly present in the Campbell song.
Sco i dont think that anyone has said that what ever was sung sent out a positive message
so is the only thing we are allowed to sing and OB wont get involved " weeeeeeeeeee are greeeeeeeeeeeeeen" " eat more veg" " hug a hoody"
The whole point of most footie songs is either support for your team or to get a rise out of them. There are an awful lot of songs that a great many people have sung (peeps on here as well) that make u shudder in todays UK. Times have changed its a question of where common humanity comes in and freedom to express ends------a huge question and one i think we are aproaching in the UK.
You misunderstand me.
I think far too much fuss is being made about the song and I'm using the approach politicians advocate to the BNP as an example of the inconsistency if the song truly is as bad as is been made out.
At the palace game, i brought a friend from work, who has been a Charlton ST holder for many years, but always sat in the lower west and didn tknow a few of the songs. she was clapping along and singing when she could and I was teaching her some words to some songs she didnt know and then she joined in with the "wheels on the bus" song (well the bits she could) and I said "some of us don't sing that one" and she asked why and I explained the story.
so, she learnt something and she would pass that on if she heard others singing it. Thats surely how we should educate others? by raising awareness to something. I think bringing the BNP and references to them are slightly extreme, as polititians don't always say the right things, and I'm personally not one for "ignoring and hoping it will be forgotton". Same as songs about hugging each other and eating lentils isnt really giving this debate the credence it deserves.
I'm also not one for ..."ignoring and hoping it will be forgotton".... but I am one for seeing things in their proper context and not seeing things that aren't there in a given situation.
I agree with you about Wheels on the Bus and have said as much further up the thread. I have also commented on the evil racism I've seen displayed by a charlton crowd at Selhurst. I also accept that the right example should be set to kids as you mention.
However, having said all that, this particular incident was about the antipathy of Spurs fans towards Sol Campbell. No more no less and in my opinion that is the way it should have stayed.
I bet you a pint or whatever you drink (within reason:-) ) that because of the publicity this has received the fans of other clubs start singing this to Campbell now that it is known that he doesn't like it.
Bananas thrown at Carlton Fairweather and John Fashanu when we played Wimbledon. I've referred to it further up the thread.
or "hope you die of cancer "
is one ok and one not ? arnt they both as bad ? one the OB can get involved one they cant ? one "political" and one not .
What about Four Poofs and a Piano?
You cannot compare racisim with this. I deplore racisim.
They call themselves GAY, black people do not call themselves N****S do they?
Like anything, I feel a lot of racist, homophobic abuse is directly related to the context it is being said/chanted/written etc and who it is said to. I call a couple of my gay friends poofs but i'd never go up to a random person who I knew/though was gay and say it.
Four Poofs and a Piano, not FPAAP.
I do not have any gay friends.
It's wrong. The song is offensive and no amount of pretending that it's not is just people being obtuse. What action should or should not be taken is a point for debate.
This is not a competition to see which of the world's problems is the worse, the winner then getting all the attention and funding to be solved. This is a football forum so a football related issue will be given greater prominence.
Following the logic of "there are bigger problems in the world so forget this" we would never be able to talk about too many CCTV cameras or the lack of celebration of English Culture or why Arsenal are crap.
Then again maybe that would be a good idea : - )
How can you say that when there is poverty in the world. Solve that problem first then talk about Arsenal.
Save The World Sell Arsenal
PS please note that the above referance to "sell arsenal" has nothing to do with rent boys ! any offence to Graham Norton`s mafia may or may not be intended !!!
Strange way to find out that my brother is really a nancy boy, and French to boot !!
we could change the words a bit, instead of "over....." perhaps "mind the Palace fan in the way"?
OK perhaps not.
What's all this 'real man' stuff about?
AND - yes
I could bloody laugh it off actually.