[cite]Posted By: Thommo[/cite]Own our ground, our training ground, have debt yes (well covered responsible debt)
This club is not in a complete mess, get a bloody grip man. Some people have no memory... Selhurst Park, Upton Park, Sunley Group, Roger Alwen, Valley Party... were were in 'a bit of a mess then'
ok everyone how about we have reasoned debate backed up by argument with some 'facts' and possibly conjecture??
Sure the board are 'responsible' as they hired this clown, however the large majority of fans were supportive. Whether they should have given him that kind of deal and whether they should have sacked him before now is up for debate.
Some sales like Reid & Iwelumo were perhaps a mistakes, but not sure who is culpable, nor the real reasons behind it, but we guess they were imposed for financial reasons. Although very odd to do this (Reid) mid season, and many feel this destroyed our promotion run - which is also backed by the stats points wise.
Our two problems now are we are saddled with an underperforming supposedly top level manager on a big contract and a board who have reached the end of their financial tether.
[cite]Posted By: Thommo[/cite]Own our ground, our training ground, have debt yes (well covered responsible debt)
The club is up their eyeballs in debt whatever spin is used. And how well covered will this debt be if the club gets relegated to league one?. On the balance of probability this will happen.
[cite]Posted By: Thommo[/cite]Selhurst Park, Upton Park, Sunley Group, Roger Alwen, Valley Party... were were in 'a bit of a mess then'
Those were bad times off the pitch - but with a few of these (some of those happened before I supported Charlton) we had a top flight side or one that gained promotion to it.
[cite]Posted By: Charlie Block[/cite]The club is up their eyeballs in debt whatever spin is used. And how well covered will this debt be if the club gets relegated to league one?. On the balance of probability this will happen.
Up to their eyeballs in debt, it's debt that is owed to the same people you are trying to get rid of you moron.
Yes, it would be in the best interests of CAFC if he fell on his sword as we can't afford to pay him off.
But get real - he's not going to, unless someone offers him a better job, is he?
And the way he's managed Charlton over the last two years, nobody is going to offer him another job.
So we're stuck and those voices above saying get behind the team and try to make the best of a bad job are right.
And if anyone knows how to get us playing over a full 90 mins as we did in the first 25 v Bristol City and the second half v Burnely, please pass the secret on to AP.
[cite]Posted By: CAFCBourne[/cite]Yeah theres cause a f*cking great queue of people around the valley waiting to put there hands in their pockets like this lot have!!
Oh I think of a few that could be doing so.
To repeat what I said earlier - the Jim Henson Company as they are good with dealing with muppets. And also Veolia whom are good with dealing with rubbish.
Hey charlie. Ill send you the bus fare for a return trip from Sheffield to come down to City Addicks on the 12th to have a one on one chat with Richard Murray. Perhaps he can assuage your fears. or would you just call him a muppet to his face.
"we've been saying get behind the team for months/years, it doesn't make enough difference I'm afraid."
Especially when it so rarely happens. I thought the crowd gave it a half decent go on Saturday and the team responded in a better atmosphere as well as to a few necessary changes. We can do better too.
I would have taken a point from each of the last two games irrespective of performance. That has stopped the rot points-wise and now on Saturday the fans, manager and team should be giving it there all to beat a team that is right next to us in the league.
An atmosphere that is pro-Charlton and up for it is our job, let's do that job and see if the team and manager can do theirs better with our help. Worked against Burnley, let's see if it can work against Barnsley. Let's play our part first before pointing the finger at others.
Perhaps someone can correct me but I think we have a mortgage of 7m? The rest is Director debt, which I think is the sort which means they have creditor preference? Not the same as being up to our eyes in debt from a bank for instance.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]I think it's just time to accept that we are not good enough, we just gotta get behind the team & hope that we accrue enough points to stay in the division (50 should do it), still think changing the manager will achieve very little.
Agreed, we can argue until we are as orange as Susan, facts are, we are not good enough, full stop, and no amount of tinkering by Pardew will change it.
He needs to build around Hudson, Bailey and Todorov in my opinion.
you said we played crap and got a point and pissed magilton off,sounds like a good night.You should have been there let me assure you it weren't a feckin good night.Also as A fans representative I should you should go to every game so you can give the fans view at the next meeting.
In the past two games the team has picked up 2 more points in comparison to the corresponding fixtures last season.
Rodex - who would you say should take over? And how long would you give them to get results?
Agree with WSS here!
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: CAFCBourne[/cite]Its all rather boring this 2 year plan stuff being thrown up, i dont suppose he thought for one minute he was going to lose half as many players as he has.
Things change agendas change we need to look to the future and make sure we turn this around and start moving in the direction.
Excellent post
Agree very good!
[cite]Posted By: Thommo[/cite]Instead of looking to blame people, get rid of people, make scapegoats, get behind the team!
Everybody needs to take a good hard look at themselves, the manager, the players and the fans, realise that this is how it is and make it better.
Also Agree this one
[cite]Posted By: CAFCBourne[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: Charlie Block[/cite]And two places and two points above the bottom three. The table doesn't lie. If we don't beat the dingles (didn't someone said the other week they were worse than us) then IMO quite a few of the board should fall on it as well.
Yeah theres cause a f*cking great queue of people around the valley waiting to put there hands in their pockets like this lot have!!
And finally once more agree!
We need to just move on WE ARE NOT A PREMIER LEAGUE SIDE ANYMORE
Its a shame. Differing viewpoints are good and prompt interesting debates.
Its just a real pity that Charlie Block, deliberately or otherwise, seems to be consistently incapable of going about raising his criticisms in a way that everyone else can relate to, or wish to debate with.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]you said we played crap and got a point and pissed magilton off,sounds like a good night.You should have been there let me assure you it weren't a feckin good night.Also as A fans representative I should you should go to every game so you can give the fans view at the next meeting.
Nope, never been a requirement, but I hope one of the group where there.
I really dislike Jim Magilton, hence my enjoyment at his whine.
I dont see the point in getting involved in a tit for tat slanging match with you Charlie, but have a look at the accounts, of the past few years they are not exactly spun. See where the debt is, see where it has come from, what and who it is assured by. My two'penneth To summize, we had nothing for years, we made sure we invested in infrastructure build the Valley to the fantastic stadium it is today, the directors dipped into their pockets when needed to fund investment into the side (transfer deadline day Youds/Mills/Mendonca etc etc). We reached the top flight, we invested well (Hunt) and badly (Redfearn) as expected some things work some dont. Curbs did superbly well for us and we had some great days. Curbs reign peters out as he wants a new challenge, we get a new manager in (some might say it was a rushed decision). As with all new managers you attract them with cash to make the side their own, this cash did stretch the club and they took a risk (but a well considered risk). This backfired, you cannot blame them for trying, the signings didnt really work out (understatement :) but the board didnt pick the players this is not their job (blame Andrew Mills :).
The board cut their losses on Dowie hoping to prevent relegation, a unfortunate dalliance with Uncle Les and they appoint Pards as our saviour, they offer him a good contract believing if anyone can keep us up he can. Since then Pards has wheeled and dealed with the cash he has been given (bringing in more cash than spending. someone else can confirm this ?)
The club decides to cut back and consolidate (RM moving sideways :- always wanted to put more and more cash in) and build the club from the bottom up again rather than taking short term risks. This is what Pards has to work with nowadays (im sure he's not too happy about it) and it unfortunately is what is right for the club. The board will not stretch the club beyond its means and is pro-active about investment, we cannot really ask for more.
Whose to blame, lady luck, Uncle Les, Iain Dowie, Andrew Mills, the officials at the fulham game... either way it doesnt matter, we just need to make it better and I am sure we will.
[cite]Posted By: sco[/cite]An atmosphere that is pro-Charlton and up for it is our job, let's do that job and see if the team and manager can do theirs better with our help. Worked against Burnley, let's see if it can work against Barnsley. Let's play our part first before pointing the finger at others.
Well put, Sco.
It's obvious, surely, that many players have serious confidence issues - and that is impacting on team performance.
The only way that is going to change, is for them to be part of a winning side.
Whether you back Pardew or want him out, if you get behind the team like supporters did in the 2nd half v Burnley,
it DOES make a difference.
On Saturday, create the right atmosphere and get behind the team!
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]you said we played crap and got a point and pissed magilton off,sounds like a good night.You should have been there let me assure you it weren't a feckin good night.Also as A fans representative I should you should go to every game so you can give the fans view at the next meeting.
GRR ARRGH WE ARE ALL PREMIER LEAGUE ROBOTS....
WATCHING THIS FOOTBALL DOES NOT COMPUTE....
I still think that the squad we have is better than the performances we are currently getting. Never been one to call for the managers head but my patience with the crap we are seeing is wearing very thin. A new manager can reinstill confidence and get more out of the players than Pardew is at the moment. Look at Palarse last season, about same situation as us now and when a new manager albeit Wassack came in he took them to the playoffs. Pains me to say it but get rid now I say and give the new bloke a decent amount of time.
I'm normally of the glass half-full type but the recent performances make me think Pardew has reached the end of the road: he has no idea what his best team, system is and clearly cannot motivate/inspire the players.
However, there are 2 problems as we all seem to accept. 1. we can't afford to sack him 2. there is a dearth of viable alternatives out there
So by default he has probably got until Christmas to turn it around and haul us up to mid-table at least
The really frustrating thing is that while Wolves and Brum have opened up a bit of a gap at the top, everybody else is beating each other as usual and the play-off places will be up for grabs right until next March-April and a couple of very ordinary teams will occupy at least two of the places - no reason why it can't still be us in one of them!
Charlton board..... are charlton , they buil us through adversity.... to lose them, even to massive rich investors, was not something everybody wanted...
times are tough but really weve been up against a sh(t load more than this... the crowd did the job on sat and we got completely lucky against and from the sounds of things might of even nicked it...
either way the board have done amazing stuff, and also been human and made one mistake in an unforgiving league that is arguably the best in the known universe....
so we are were we are, the board though are in my mind doing great things.... keeping us out of administration for one.....
[cite]Posted By: Curb It[/cite]
Hey charlie. Ill send you the bus fare for a return trip from Sheffield to come down to City Addicks on the 12th to have a one on one chat with Richard Murray. Perhaps he can assuage your fears. or would you just call him a muppet to his face.
)
EFFING great shout - I'll chip in as well just to see Murray call him a tosser as well. LOL
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]I still think that the squad we have is better than the performances we are currently getting. Never been one to call for the managers head but my patience with the crap we are seeing is wearing very thin. A new manager can reinstill confidence and get more out of the players than Pardew is at the moment. Look at Palarse last season, about same situation as us now and when a new manager albeit Wassack came in he took them to the playoffs. Pains me to say it but get rid now I say and give the new bloke a decent amount of time.
Agree with every word, SHG. I have still seen no evidence that AP is getting better...in fact, most things point to him getting worse...it feels to me like it has gone beyond a redeemable situation, unfortunately.
I have to say last night I was really p*ssed off with a small minority of our fans who started chanting "we want Pardew out" as soon as we went a goal down. It got even worse after the penalty had been given and they were waiting to take it. What do people really think that will achieve? I shouted out in a loud voice "shut up" each time it started, thankfully it was a small minority but they were starting to get others involved. Even if you are the most ardent Pards hater, why do this during a bloody game and as it turned out, at the turning point?
The team isn't performing because of a lack of confidence. In my view it has little to do with what team he starts with, or the shape of the team. At some point in any of our last twenty games (bar perhaps Reading) confidence has been fragile and has affected our play. You can't even pick on individuals (other than perhaps Holland, Bailey and Hudson) and tell whether they are going to play well or poorly even in periods of games.
Take Lloyd Sam as an example. On Saturday, most would agree that he was a real threat when he came on. Last night he was unable to threaten anything. He kept running into trouble, his passing was poor and he kept moving inside presumably to try and find some invisible space?
Moo2 looked decent especially going forward on Saturday. Last night, bar one or two flashes he was hopeless and gave the ball away far too often.
Take Tody as an example, he looked classy on Saturday, scored and could have won the game for us. Last night he was virtually marked out of the game, couldn't find hardly any space and fluffed virtually every pass. Some of that was down to Ipswich doing a job on him but he was just not on his game.
All of this points to a serious lack of confidence. So how much of that is down to the manager? Well it is his job to motivate, that's true but being entirely fair, we have had injuries to key players which have disrupted the team. That seriously affects fluency and that has all but gone except in short spells during games.
Ambrose, Holland Tody, McLeod, and ZZ were unavailable at the start of the season. Since the start Racon, Fortune, and now ZZ again are injured. He brought in Primus and Cranie neither of whom were fully fit.
My view is that the team need us to get behind them, as we did I must say after the penalty last night and especially after we scored. Giving up on the manager now, is really giving up on the team, and I think feel thats the wrong approach. Sure come on here afterwards and get it all off your chest but support the team during the games. Football always surprises you and last night was no exception. An elderly lady sitting next to me said that this was the worst performance she had ever seen, two seconds before we scored. She finished the match with a big grin on her face. No, it wasn't pretty but I sure as hell have seen a lot worse.
We have had better days but lets get behind them on Saturday, we are unbeaten in two, lets keep that going and a win on Saturday will lift the mood a great deal.
Comments
I'd love to see another "Les Reed 6 Games of Madness".
That was brilliant.
(and a knee jerk reaction)
Also - where are all these names of likely successors to Pardew?
They employ you?
That ends that argument for me.
Sure the board are 'responsible' as they hired this clown, however the large majority of fans were supportive. Whether they should have given him that kind of deal and whether they should have sacked him before now is up for debate.
Some sales like Reid & Iwelumo were perhaps a mistakes, but not sure who is culpable, nor the real reasons behind it, but we guess they were imposed for financial reasons. Although very odd to do this (Reid) mid season, and many feel this destroyed our promotion run - which is also backed by the stats points wise.
Our two problems now are we are saddled with an underperforming supposedly top level manager on a big contract and a board who have reached the end of their financial tether.
The club is up their eyeballs in debt whatever spin is used. And how well covered will this debt be if the club gets relegated to league one?. On the balance of probability this will happen.
Those were bad times off the pitch - but with a few of these (some of those happened before I supported Charlton) we had a top flight side or one that gained promotion to it.
Up to their eyeballs in debt, it's debt that is owed to the same people you are trying to get rid of you moron.
But get real - he's not going to, unless someone offers him a better job, is he?
And the way he's managed Charlton over the last two years, nobody is going to offer him another job.
So we're stuck and those voices above saying get behind the team and try to make the best of a bad job are right.
And if anyone knows how to get us playing over a full 90 mins as we did in the first 25 v Bristol City and the second half v Burnely, please pass the secret on to AP.
Hey charlie. Ill send you the bus fare for a return trip from Sheffield to come down to City Addicks on the 12th to have a one on one chat with Richard Murray. Perhaps he can assuage your fears. or would you just call him a muppet to his face.
Especially when it so rarely happens. I thought the crowd gave it a half decent go on Saturday and the team responded in a better atmosphere as well as to a few necessary changes. We can do better too.
I would have taken a point from each of the last two games irrespective of performance. That has stopped the rot points-wise and now on Saturday the fans, manager and team should be giving it there all to beat a team that is right next to us in the league.
An atmosphere that is pro-Charlton and up for it is our job, let's do that job and see if the team and manager can do theirs better with our help. Worked against Burnley, let's see if it can work against Barnsley. Let's play our part first before pointing the finger at others.
yes
Agreed, we can argue until we are as orange as Susan, facts are, we are not good enough, full stop, and no amount of tinkering by Pardew will change it.
He needs to build around Hudson, Bailey and Todorov in my opinion.
Agree with WSS here!
Agree very good!
Also Agree this one
And finally once more agree!
We need to just move on WE ARE NOT A PREMIER LEAGUE SIDE ANYMORE
Its just a real pity that Charlie Block, deliberately or otherwise, seems to be consistently incapable of going about raising his criticisms in a way that everyone else can relate to, or wish to debate with.
Nope, never been a requirement, but I hope one of the group where there.
I really dislike Jim Magilton, hence my enjoyment at his whine.
My two'penneth
To summize, we had nothing for years, we made sure we invested in infrastructure build the Valley to the fantastic stadium it is today, the directors dipped into their pockets when needed to fund investment into the side (transfer deadline day Youds/Mills/Mendonca etc etc). We reached the top flight, we invested well (Hunt) and badly (Redfearn) as expected some things work some dont. Curbs did superbly well for us and we had some great days. Curbs reign peters out as he wants a new challenge, we get a new manager in (some might say it was a rushed decision). As with all new managers you attract them with cash to make the side their own, this cash did stretch the club and they took a risk (but a well considered risk). This backfired, you cannot blame them for trying, the signings didnt really work out (understatement :) but the board didnt pick the players this is not their job (blame Andrew Mills :).
The board cut their losses on Dowie hoping to prevent relegation, a unfortunate dalliance with Uncle Les and they appoint Pards as our saviour, they offer him a good contract believing if anyone can keep us up he can. Since then Pards has wheeled and dealed with the cash he has been given (bringing in more cash than spending. someone else can confirm this ?)
The club decides to cut back and consolidate (RM moving sideways :- always wanted to put more and more cash in) and build the club from the bottom up again rather than taking short term risks. This is what Pards has to work with nowadays (im sure he's not too happy about it) and it unfortunately is what is right for the club. The board will not stretch the club beyond its means and is pro-active about investment, we cannot really ask for more.
Whose to blame, lady luck, Uncle Les, Iain Dowie, Andrew Mills, the officials at the fulham game... either way it doesnt matter, we just need to make it better and I am sure we will.
APOLS TO ALL THAT TURNED INTO A BIT OF AN ESSAY!
Oh yes... the one and only
Well put, Sco.
It's obvious, surely, that many players have serious confidence issues - and that is impacting on team performance.
The only way that is going to change, is for them to be part of a winning side.
Whether you back Pardew or want him out, if you get behind the team like supporters did in the 2nd half v Burnley,
it DOES make a difference.
On Saturday, create the right atmosphere and get behind the team!
GRR ARRGH WE ARE ALL PREMIER LEAGUE ROBOTS....
WATCHING THIS FOOTBALL DOES NOT COMPUTE....
;o)
However, there are 2 problems as we all seem to accept.
1. we can't afford to sack him
2. there is a dearth of viable alternatives out there
So by default he has probably got until Christmas to turn it around and haul us up to mid-table at least
The really frustrating thing is that while Wolves and Brum have opened up a bit of a gap at the top, everybody else is beating each other as usual and the play-off places will be up for grabs right until next March-April and a couple of very ordinary teams will occupy at least two of the places - no reason why it can't still be us in one of them!
times are tough but really weve been up against a sh(t load more than this... the crowd did the job on sat and we got completely lucky against and from the sounds of things might of even nicked it...
either way the board have done amazing stuff, and also been human and made one mistake in an unforgiving league that is arguably the best in the known universe....
so we are were we are, the board though are in my mind doing great things.... keeping us out of administration for one.....
EFFING great shout - I'll chip in as well just to see Murray call him a tosser as well. LOL
Agree with every word, SHG. I have still seen no evidence that AP is getting better...in fact, most things point to him getting worse...it feels to me like it has gone beyond a redeemable situation, unfortunately.
lol just taking the p1ss out of these plastics ;o)
the unfortunate google result for 34c's
The team isn't performing because of a lack of confidence. In my view it has little to do with what team he starts with, or the shape of the team. At some point in any of our last twenty games (bar perhaps Reading) confidence has been fragile and has affected our play. You can't even pick on individuals (other than perhaps Holland, Bailey and Hudson) and tell whether they are going to play well or poorly even in periods of games.
Take Lloyd Sam as an example. On Saturday, most would agree that he was a real threat when he came on. Last night he was unable to threaten anything. He kept running into trouble, his passing was poor and he kept moving inside presumably to try and find some invisible space?
Moo2 looked decent especially going forward on Saturday. Last night, bar one or two flashes he was hopeless and gave the ball away far too often.
Take Tody as an example, he looked classy on Saturday, scored and could have won the game for us. Last night he was virtually marked out of the game, couldn't find hardly any space and fluffed virtually every pass. Some of that was down to Ipswich doing a job on him but he was just not on his game.
All of this points to a serious lack of confidence. So how much of that is down to the manager? Well it is his job to motivate, that's true but being entirely fair, we have had injuries to key players which have disrupted the team. That seriously affects fluency and that has all but gone except in short spells during games.
Ambrose, Holland Tody, McLeod, and ZZ were unavailable at the start of the season. Since the start Racon, Fortune, and now ZZ again are injured. He brought in Primus and Cranie neither of whom were fully fit.
My view is that the team need us to get behind them, as we did I must say after the penalty last night and especially after we scored. Giving up on the manager now, is really giving up on the team, and I think feel thats the wrong approach. Sure come on here afterwards and get it all off your chest but support the team during the games. Football always surprises you and last night was no exception. An elderly lady sitting next to me said that this was the worst performance she had ever seen, two seconds before we scored. She finished the match with a big grin on her face. No, it wasn't pretty but I sure as hell have seen a lot worse.
We have had better days but lets get behind them on Saturday, we are unbeaten in two, lets keep that going and a win on Saturday will lift the mood a great deal.