[cite]Posted By: nickaspanner[/cite]It's shame only a few people can see how poor Matt Holland is. and one of the major reasons why we are in this mess. we are always over run in the middle when he plays he cant pass, shoot, tackle but because he has a big heart and claps for 10 minutes after the game after another defeat we should keep him. Dazzler is it those puppy dogs eyes he gives after another defeat that sways you to think he is a great player. As for having him and Powell next season why not get Hales, Peacock and even Bartram back whilst we at it. Its like you want us to go down again. As soon as Holland has gone we will move forward again. oh yeah it's funny how we were beating Blackpool 2-1 and Cardiff 2-0 and then on steps Super Matt........
for most of Chris Powell's last season with us he was a liability, outjumped by dwarves, outpaced by journeyman cloggers and responsible for a fair few goals conceded yet he is still revered by most if not all.
It's all about opinions but Matty Holland is, in my opinion, someone well worth having around the club for at least the next season. We will have a number of players who think it's their divine right to romp that division next season and we will need a lot of realists to point out that we are well and truly out of our comfort zone and that this season is going to be a shock
Everyone said he would be a good player/influence in the championship which has been proven wrong. As soon as he got in the team in the relegation season from the premiership we went down hill, As soon as he got in the team about November/December last season we went downhill, as soon as he played any this season we went downhill. We have only started to look like a team now because he has not been starting. Then as soon as he comes off the bench the same old crap football from the start of season all comes flooding back.
[cite]Posted By: nickaspanner[/cite]Everyone said he would be a good player/influence in the championship which has been proven wrong. As soon as he got in the team in the relegation season from the premiership we went down hill, As soon as he got in the team about November/December last season we went downhill, as soon as he played any this season we went downhill. We have only started to look like a team now because he has not been starting. Then as soon as he comes off the bench the same old crap football from the start of season all comes flooding back.
You mean as soon as Iain Dowie took charge we went down hill, as soon as AP came in we continued to go down, as soon as Andy Reid went we went to sh1t.
To be honest mate your argument is flawed one player does not make a team but he does make your scape goat doesn't he!
No what i'm saying is if he didnt shag everyone of those managers they would have taken there rose tinted glasses off and realised he was a poor player, Yes the rose tinted glasses that you are now the proud owner of. He may love the club and have a big heart but there is time when they have to move on. just a shame it wasnt 3 years ago, who knows where we would be not division 3 thats for sure.
[cite]Posted By: nickaspanner[/cite]No what i'm saying is if he didnt shag everyone of those managers they would have taken there rose tinted glasses off and realised he was a poor player, Yes the rose tinted glasses that you are now the proud owner of. He may love the club and have a big heart but there is time when they have to move on. just a shame it wasnt 3 years ago, who knows where we would be not division 3 thats for sure.
That has to be the funniest comment I have EVER read on this site!!
I really do think that there has been a lot of "the emperiors new clothes" about Holland's time at Charlton with his nice guy image clouding the fact that he's never really been that good for us in terms of performance on the pitch.
I agree with Nick Spanner in so far as a midfield involving Holland is one that is easierly over-run. He adds nothing to the side that isn't done better by others.
We aren't in a position where we can hand out contracts on the basis that someone is a "nice bloke" it has to be based on what they offer on the pitch. For me, Holland simply doesn't do enough to warrant a new contract.
[cite]Posted By: Barn Door Varney[/cite]I agree with Nick Spanner in so far as a midfield involving Holland is one that is easierly over-run. He adds nothing to the side that isn't done better by others.
As Red in SE8 said above, if we have to rely on Holland next season, we are screwed.
We aren't in a position where we can hand out contracts on the basis that someone is a "nice bloke" it has to be based on what they offer on the pitch. For me, Holland simply doesn't do enough to warrant a new contract.
what a load of rubbish
no one is saying rely on Matt Holland ,
This time last year i said let Jonjo and Matt have the CM position one young and enthusiastic the other to tidy up the mistakes my the young one and help him through games, instead the mgmt play Matty in the CM role without JJ for most games and poor matty showed up his lack of pace, play him at CH and he was not found wanting unlike Hudson
How people can call the demise of Charlton as MH fault is just scandelous, we need the yoof to come through and to do that with not one single senior pro who loves this club would be the biggest mistake of the lot
Matt H is destined for a career in management/coaching when he finally hangs his boots up. I don't though see the point in retaining his services as a pure player, perhaps a job could be found for him along the same lines as Chris Powell was employed last season - a player/coach, who plays a few games here and there as cover and coaches on the side?
Next season if he stays we'll rely heavily on Jonjo and some of the other youth team players, in most matches that won't be a problem, but there'll be times when Holland will be needed to shore up a midfield/defence, and his experience will be invaluable.
I think that many of you are missing them point about next year. Very few teams will play through the midfield anyway so his 'perceived' lack of physical presence doesn't really bother me. What he can bring to the team is a calm head to make sure that we make the most of the second phase ball i.e. when Kandol loses out yet again to some big lump of a CH. Okay he may have messed up on a few occassions (Nott's Forest this year for instance) but at that level I think he can do a good job tidying things up and getting the ball to our more creative players (well Jon Jo basically). Then he can also fill in in a number of positions too...
Holland was decent for the first season maybe two and even scored a few goals. After that he really didn't put the effort in (same as the rest) , he stopped going forward, stopped scoring and he never tackled in any case.
The nickname Captain Cleanshorts stuck due to his lack of tackling and committment.
He became more committed in our relegation season from The Prem and I remember him putting in a tackle against Stoke at home last season.
However, he really should have gone years ago. He is a smashing bloke though, but that's not the point. IMO
[cite]Posted By: Addickson's God[/cite]Geeing up the crowd and being a consumate passer of the ball backwards or sideways doesn't do it for me. He's one of the reasons we are in the mess we are in now. Get rid!
I also suspect that dressing room dissent is down to him, old pros vs youngsters.
That last sentence is a pretty stupid thing to say imho. How can you possibly have any idea.
Shooters honestly....how on earth can you say that?....Matt Holland is if nothing else a true gent and diplomat...he wasn't club captain for nothing you know.....you'll not have a moments trouble with Matt both on or off the pitch and to suggest that he'd be involved in dressing room spats (other than to try to alleviate them ) is simply ludicrous!
Erm.....Sorry SonundAsa£.......but I was defending Matt...wasn`t I
Alright, he may be of limited use to us next season if he is at the club, but to blame any of our downfall on him is not only stupid, it is insulting.
It's the other tosspots who couldn't give a monkeys about Charlton that have landed us in the shit - along with the arsewit managers we who blew our transfer budgets on cack and then went crazy in the loan market to try and compensate for it.
Matty Holland is a Charlton legend. End of. But I know that it doesn't mean that he should be with us next season...
I think the issue is that if Holland stays it'll probably mean that someone else goes. Even if PP is still manager *shudder* he's not going to be able to keep anything like the same number of central mids hanging around. With Wright and Arter out of contract, it strikes me that keeping Holland on the books may cost us more than just the points he'll cost us on-pitch.
Can't beleive how people are making comments such as last season he was being overrrun in midfield. The Thomas, Holland , Reid , Sam midfield combination was the reason we did so well at the begining of last season. Just can't fault the man, he has an unbelieveable determination and probably one of the only players in the team that just enjoys playing for the club and couldn't give a shite about the money hence the reason he is wanting a new contract. I hope we do re-sign as I believe he will easily be good enough for League 1. It makes me laugh how people think he won't be good enough, these are probably the same people that believed Ambrose was one of our best players at the begining of this season.
[cite]Posted By: SE7[/cite]Can't beleive how people are making comments such as last season he was being overrrun in midfield. The Thomas, Holland , Reid , Sam midfield combination was the reason we did so well at the begining of last season. Just can't fault the man, he has an unbelieveable determination and probably one of the only players in the team that just enjoys playing for the club and couldn't give a shite about the money hence the reason he is wanting a new contract. I hope we do re-sign as I believe he will easily be good enough for League 1. It makes me laugh how people think he won't be good enough, these are probably the same people that believed Ambrose was one of our best players at the begining of this season.
Agree with all of that but I thought Ambrose was gonna be a big player for us......Erm !
Time for Matty to move on, with heartfelt thanks for me. If he stays we might have to drop a younger player such as Harry Arter. It's more of an ability thing than age. Kins was far more effective than Matty at the same age, despite a dodgy knee.
[cite]Posted By: SE7[/cite]Can't beleive how people are making comments such as last season he was being overrrun in midfield. The Thomas, Holland , Reid , Sam midfield combination was the reason we did so well at the begining of last season.
I think you will find that that was Semedo, or alternatively, Zheng Zhi, alongside Thomas, Reid, Sam(be it in a midfield 4 or 5). As soon as Holland returned on a regular basis, that was when our season took a bit of a dive.
If this was 'Charltons got talent' It would be a no from me, how about you Mr Cowell?
Comments
Perfectly put.
for most of Chris Powell's last season with us he was a liability, outjumped by dwarves, outpaced by journeyman cloggers and responsible for a fair few goals conceded yet he is still revered by most if not all.
It's all about opinions but Matty Holland is, in my opinion, someone well worth having around the club for at least the next season. We will have a number of players who think it's their divine right to romp that division next season and we will need a lot of realists to point out that we are well and truly out of our comfort zone and that this season is going to be a shock
You mean as soon as Iain Dowie took charge we went down hill, as soon as AP came in we continued to go down, as soon as Andy Reid went we went to sh1t.
To be honest mate your argument is flawed one player does not make a team but he does make your scape goat doesn't he!
Cheers WSS ;o)
Get a grip.
That is all.
As if Matt Holland brought this club to it's knee's lol
He does have a big heart...
I agree with Nick Spanner in so far as a midfield involving Holland is one that is easierly over-run. He adds nothing to the side that isn't done better by others.
We aren't in a position where we can hand out contracts on the basis that someone is a "nice bloke" it has to be based on what they offer on the pitch. For me, Holland simply doesn't do enough to warrant a new contract.
what a load of rubbish
no one is saying rely on Matt Holland ,
This time last year i said let Jonjo and Matt have the CM position one young and enthusiastic the other to tidy up the mistakes my the young one and help him through games, instead the mgmt play Matty in the CM role without JJ for most games and poor matty showed up his lack of pace, play him at CH and he was not found wanting unlike Hudson
How people can call the demise of Charlton as MH fault is just scandelous, we need the yoof to come through and to do that with not one single senior pro who loves this club would be the biggest mistake of the lot
Next season if he stays we'll rely heavily on Jonjo and some of the other youth team players, in most matches that won't be a problem, but there'll be times when Holland will be needed to shore up a midfield/defence, and his experience will be invaluable.
Midfield next season:
Wagstaff(or Wright) Holland Racon Sam
Jonjo
The nickname Captain Cleanshorts stuck due to his lack of tackling and committment.
He became more committed in our relegation season from The Prem and I remember him putting in a tackle against Stoke at home last season.
However, he really should have gone years ago. He is a smashing bloke though, but that's not the point. IMO
Erm.....Sorry SonundAsa£.......but I was defending Matt...wasn`t I
It's the other tosspots who couldn't give a monkeys about Charlton that have landed us in the shit - along with the arsewit managers we who blew our transfer budgets on cack and then went crazy in the loan market to try and compensate for it.
Matty Holland is a Charlton legend. End of. But I know that it doesn't mean that he should be with us next season...
FOMHH
the last word is hater's!
Agree with all of that but I thought Ambrose was gonna be a big player for us......Erm !
i think they still think we're in the premiership and should be signing some top quality !!
He isn't good enough to be a regular though if we want promotion.
Going back over those matches, most of our wins at the start of last season came without Holland.
See here. In fact from a quick count, we only won 9 games with him in the team out of 34 matches, just 3 of them before Christmas.
Compare that to the games Semedo played in, we won 15 times out of 39 games.
If he stays we might have to drop a younger player such as Harry Arter. It's more of an ability thing than age. Kins was far more effective than Matty at the same age, despite a dodgy knee.
I think you will find that that was Semedo, or alternatively, Zheng Zhi, alongside Thomas, Reid, Sam(be it in a midfield 4 or 5). As soon as Holland returned on a regular basis, that was when our season took a bit of a dive.
If this was 'Charltons got talent' It would be a no from me, how about you Mr Cowell?