I for one do not want to see Crystal Palace be liquidated. As I have said before elsewhere, I find it hard to understand why anybody would want to support them but of course they do. Parents who have schlepped to the football with their kids, like I have, and their kids have shared in the experience of following Crystal Palace's fortunes, do not deserve to have their club taken from them, and their loyalty trampled on like this. I know quite a few Palace fans, and I know they're abject in their helpless worry....some of those people are absolute and utter diamonds as people (they simply support a different club to me), and I feel for them. The Charlton fans who have a different perspective to me, just think 'there but for the grace of God', maybe it will be our turn sooner rather than later. I hope they survive, maybe weakened somewhat, but survive...and if you think I am being too sentimental...well I can live with that.
Seems to me that all the hard work has been done and in principal all the parties want a deal. I can understand the banks position but can't see that an agreement is so very far away. Tomorrows deadline seems unrealistic and unreasonable given that a deal in principal has been reached unless of course Agilo know something the statement doesn't say. My guess is that Agilo will tomorrow extend the deadline to allow a deal to be reached. It's surely the best for all parties concerned.
they will be ok. the brave 300 have had zero coverage,but clearsil have been flying off the shelfs around the local shops of norwood as angry nigels make their point.
I still think a deal will be reached tomorrow morning. end of the day, all the parties will already know about this supposed deadline, so what's to be achieved from making the information public? IMO it's an attempt to bang some heads together and focus the relevant people's attention in order to complete the deal. As usual, compromises will be made on both sides and an agreement reached.
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it could be a desperate last throw of the dice from a consortium who don't have the real funds to complete the deal, and so are trying to use Palace's supporters under the threat of the club closing as a reason to get the club and ground on the cheap. The statement claimed that as it is owned by the taxpayer, RBS should accept a lesser deal for the social benefits the club brings to the local community. But that's not the Treasury's responsibility, and so I can't see RBS completely ceding to the consortium's wishes.
My personal preference would be for the club to go to the wall. The time we spent at Selhurst Park tainted me to the point that I will not be able to shed a tear if they do dissapear. I also believe that the majority of Palace fans would welcome us being in this position.
My biggest issue with CPFC2010 is that they believe that a bank owned by the tax payers should give them a great deal. At a time when many people are being asked to make sacrifices for the benefit of the country (Public Services being cut and taxes being increased) I don't see how they can 'demand' that the state owned bank sell them Selhurst Park cheap to potentially sell on for a huge profit in a few years time when the ground essentially belongs to the public. If they can have the ground cheap does that mean that all football clubs can be awarded a multi-million pound grant to compensate for the disparity in competition such hand outs cause?
[cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite]My personal preference would be for the club to go to the wall. The time we spent at Selhurst Park tainted me to the point that I will not be able to shed a tear if they do dissapear. I also believe that the majority of Palace fans would welcome us being in this position.
My biggest issue with CPFC2010 is that they believe that a bank owned by the tax payers should give them a great deal. At a time when many people are being asked to make sacrifices for the benefit of the country (Public Services being cut and taxes being increased) I don't see how they can 'demand' that the state owned bank sell them Selhurst Park cheap to potentially sell on for a huge profit in a few years time when the ground essentially belongs to the public. If they can have the ground cheap does that mean that all football clubs can be awarded a multi-million pound grant to compensate for the disparity in competition such hand outs cause?
No? I didn't think so.
Disagree about them going to the wall, but I think you make a very fair point re finances, they have to pay their debts, and be mindful of the small businesses who are creditors, and thoughtful about those made redundant.
It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Ron Noades was in some way involved with CPFC2010, the deal they are tring to broker, certainly smells Noadesesque.
[cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite]
My biggest issue with CPFC2010 is that they believe that a bank owned by the tax payers should give them a great deal. At a time when many people are being asked to make sacrifices for the benefit of the country (Public Services being cut and taxes being increased) I don't see how they can 'demand' that the state owned bank sell them Selhurst Park cheap to potentially sell on for a huge profit in a few years time when the ground essentially belongs to the public. If they can have the ground cheap does that mean that all football clubs can be awarded a multi-million pound grant to compensate for the disparity in competition such hand outs cause?
Agree entirely, strip away the football club aspect and no one would be arguing for LBG to lower their price. The taxpayer needs to get value for its decision to nationalise the banking sector. If Palace go to the wall, they won't be the first club to and they shouldn't expect special treatment from the government in order to avoid it. How would fans of Chester, Aldershot, etc feel if they did?
If it does happen their fans shouldn't be blaming the government, the administrator, the banks or even Agilo, the only people responsible for this are Noades for splitting the club from the ground in the first place, and Jordan for getting into bed with investment houses and for making the agreement on Selhurst he did when he had supposedly 'bought' it.
Latest update from the consortium :- There is no money left in the administration, with no one to fund the club the administrator has no option but to sell the assets (players mainly) and realise as much cash as possible to pay creditors.
The club will then be liquidated unless of course someone else comes forward .
This process will take a short while, how long will depend on the player sales but i suspect only a few days.
We have been told this process will begin at 3pm tomorrow unless we complete the deal we have in place with Agilo. We are unwilling to do this until we have secured the ground.
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]bank holiday monday so few there.
For a protest called only a few days ago and on a bank holiday I think it's a decent turnout.
How many turned up at the first ever Valley Party meeting? Ten.
CPFC2010 seem to be playing a very risky game. As said above I can't see why the Bank would care about a Football Club while the consortium seem to want it both ways - cheap price and low "sell on" fee.
[cite]Posted By: CPFC2010[/cite]We have been told this process will begin at 3pm tomorrow unless we complete the deal we have in place with Agilo. We are unwilling to do this until we have secured the ground.
Hmmm, this consortium doesn't seem like a group that could care one way or the other about saving Palace. If they don't care about saving the club, why should Lloyds?
I have sympathy for the fans, but I find it very, very difficult to want CPFC2010 to succeed in this. If they do, they'll have held the fans to ransom, paid a pittance to the creditors and got a bargain from the taxpayer. And will have spent the last few months issuing ultimatums and statements that show a lack of regard for Crystal Palace FC. For example, why was owning Selhurst a necessary precondition? Important, yes, great if they could get it, absolutley. But necessary?
Now seems a good time to remind everyone that in 1989 palarse paid £1 million for Nigel Martyn, (the first £1m for a keeper) out of our rent money, while Sir Lenny of Lawrence's men were playing in front of 8000.
They just sold Ambrose for a total profit after all the dross he played for us, Charlton are on the creditors list for £200k, and they mustered a mighty 300 for their "Valley Party" protest moment today.
A great line from Airplane......... "I say, they knew what they were doing - let 'em crash"
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]bank holiday monday so few there.
For a protest called only a few days ago and on a bank holiday I think it's a decent turnout.
How many turned up at the first ever Valley Party meeting? Ten.
CPFC2010 seem to be playing a very risky game. As said above I can't see why the Bank would care about a Football Club while the consortium seem to want it both ways - cheap price and low "sell on" fee.
My hope is that this is negotiations coming to a conclusion, and that CPFC2010 are now finally giving the fans some info, hoping that they can influence PWC to agree with there views on future ground sales. I must admit to a little concern, as I thought one of the reasons for ground ownership was to bring the club and ground together, to improve the clubs future.
I realise that all possiblities must be considered, but PWC's insistence that they should profit in any future sales, doesn't seem unreasonable, and I hope that the consortium are stalling till the last minute before agreeing too. The consortium have consistently played hard ball, maybe this is PWC drawing a line saying they have been reaonable with the fee, and that they won't budge from that.
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]bank holiday monday so few there.
For a protest called only a few days ago and on a bank holiday I think it's a decent turnout.
How many turned up at the first ever Valley Party meeting? Ten.
CPFC2010 seem to be playing a very risky game. As said above I can't see why the Bank would care about a Football Club while the consortium seem to want it both ways - cheap price and low "sell on" fee.
I suspect that you are spot on Budgie.
My hope is that this is negotiations coming to a conclusion, and that CPFC2010 are now finally giving the fans some info, hoping that they can influence PWC to agree with there views on future ground sales. I must admit to a little concern, as I thought one of the reasons for ground ownership was to bring the club and ground together, to improve the clubs future.
I realise that all possiblities must be considered, but PWC's insistence that they should profit in any future sales, doesn't seem unreasonable, and I hope that the consortium are stalling till the last minute before agreeing too. The consortium have consistently played hard ball, maybe this is PWC drawing a line saying they have been reaonable with the fee, and that they won't budge from that.
Budgie (great post BTW), it would be interesting to know how much CPFC2010 are offering for the ground. Given that Ron Noades quite recently (in value terms at least) sold it for £12m. Surely it must be worth at least that now, so I would expect the PWC / Bank of Scotland to hold out for at least that in order to protect public assets. Any idea how much or if RGN is involved in trying to get hold of it once again on the cheap ? CPFC2010 are trying desperately today to make the Bank of Scotland out to be the bad guys, when in all probability they (CPFC2010) are not prepared to pay fair value for Selhurst Park IMHO.
[cite]Posted By: No.1 in South London[/cite]Budgie (great post BTW), it would be interesting to know how much CPFC2010 are offering for the ground. Given that Ron Noades quite recently (in value terms at least) sold it for £12m. Surely it must be worth at least that now, so I would expect the PWC / Bank of Scotland to hold out for at least that in order to protect public assets. Any idea how much or if RGN is involved in trying to get hold of it once again on the cheap ? CPFC2010 are trying desperately today to make the Bank of Scotland out to be the bad guys, when in all probability they (CPFC2010) are not prepared to pay fair value for Selhurst Park IMHO.
I work in the commercial property industry (well, servicing the commercial property industry anyway). Most estimates put the ground's true value to developers at around 15 million.
[cite]Posted By: budgie[/cite]Sorry no idea how much they are offering, but my understanding is the same as yours, and that the fee is very generous to CPFC2010.
As I say, I just hope it's posturing, and they do a deal, unless there was a plan all along to move from Selhurst.
Thanks, I'm sure a deal will be resolved and with the pressure being put on over the weekend, PWC may bend a little. It is always the case when deals like this are being put together, that details are sketchy at best. There is a lot of "activity" this weekend on getting Palace fans to raise their game and put pressure on various goups (Government/PWC banks, Aglio etc) without them actually knowing if CPFC2010 are actually being offered an excellent deal ........... hope it works out for you and that it is not another Noades inspired profit making opportunity.
[cite]Posted By: budgie[/cite]Sorry no idea how much they are offering, but my understanding is the same as yours, and that the fee is very generous to CPFC2010.
As I say, I just hope it's posturing, and they do a deal, unless there was a plan all along to move from Selhurst.
Out of interest, Budgie, what's the general opinion of Palace fans about moving from Sellout? Personally, I would think it made a lot of sense - especially since you could probably get Croydon council to foot a lot of the bill for a purpose built stadium in some dump out towards New Addington whilst they used the land in Thornton Heath for housing/development.
New team registered under AFC crystal palace... then crystal palace football club no longer exist. CPFC2010 take over, after buying the ground at cut price. Then they sell the ground to a property developer for a big profit and the developers can then get planning permission (as cpfc no longer exist). Then cpfc2010 use the profit freom selling shithurst to build a new stadium with less running cost
Comments
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it could be a desperate last throw of the dice from a consortium who don't have the real funds to complete the deal, and so are trying to use Palace's supporters under the threat of the club closing as a reason to get the club and ground on the cheap. The statement claimed that as it is owned by the taxpayer, RBS should accept a lesser deal for the social benefits the club brings to the local community. But that's not the Treasury's responsibility, and so I can't see RBS completely ceding to the consortium's wishes.
My biggest issue with CPFC2010 is that they believe that a bank owned by the tax payers should give them a great deal. At a time when many people are being asked to make sacrifices for the benefit of the country (Public Services being cut and taxes being increased) I don't see how they can 'demand' that the state owned bank sell them Selhurst Park cheap to potentially sell on for a huge profit in a few years time when the ground essentially belongs to the public. If they can have the ground cheap does that mean that all football clubs can be awarded a multi-million pound grant to compensate for the disparity in competition such hand outs cause?
No? I didn't think so.
Disagree about them going to the wall, but I think you make a very fair point re finances, they have to pay their debts, and be mindful of the small businesses who are creditors, and thoughtful about those made redundant.
Agree entirely, strip away the football club aspect and no one would be arguing for LBG to lower their price. The taxpayer needs to get value for its decision to nationalise the banking sector. If Palace go to the wall, they won't be the first club to and they shouldn't expect special treatment from the government in order to avoid it. How would fans of Chester, Aldershot, etc feel if they did?
If it does happen their fans shouldn't be blaming the government, the administrator, the banks or even Agilo, the only people responsible for this are Noades for splitting the club from the ground in the first place, and Jordan for getting into bed with investment houses and for making the agreement on Selhurst he did when he had supposedly 'bought' it.
Selling the ground onto a property developer !
The club will then be liquidated unless of course someone else comes forward .
This process will take a short while, how long will depend on the player sales but i suspect only a few days.
We have been told this process will begin at 3pm tomorrow unless we complete the deal we have in place with Agilo. We are unwilling to do this until we have secured the ground.
lot of bad press and recrimination also.
For refusing to be legged over ? don't think anyone bar the Palace faithful would take that view.
As a fixed- charge holder they would be paid all of their debts (or what of that debt is available) in priority to every other creditor.
For a protest called only a few days ago and on a bank holiday I think it's a decent turnout.
How many turned up at the first ever Valley Party meeting? Ten.
CPFC2010 seem to be playing a very risky game. As said above I can't see why the Bank would care about a Football Club while the consortium seem to want it both ways - cheap price and low "sell on" fee.
Hmmm, this consortium doesn't seem like a group that could care one way or the other about saving Palace. If they don't care about saving the club, why should Lloyds?
I have sympathy for the fans, but I find it very, very difficult to want CPFC2010 to succeed in this. If they do, they'll have held the fans to ransom, paid a pittance to the creditors and got a bargain from the taxpayer. And will have spent the last few months issuing ultimatums and statements that show a lack of regard for Crystal Palace FC. For example, why was owning Selhurst a necessary precondition? Important, yes, great if they could get it, absolutley. But necessary?
They just sold Ambrose for a total profit after all the dross he played for us, Charlton are on the creditors list for £200k, and they mustered a mighty 300 for their "Valley Party" protest moment today.
A great line from Airplane.........
"I say, they knew what they were doing - let 'em crash"
My hope is that this is negotiations coming to a conclusion, and that CPFC2010 are now finally giving the fans some info, hoping that they can influence PWC to agree with there views on future ground sales. I must admit to a little concern, as I thought one of the reasons for ground ownership was to bring the club and ground together, to improve the clubs future.
I realise that all possiblities must be considered, but PWC's insistence that they should profit in any future sales, doesn't seem unreasonable, and I hope that the consortium are stalling till the last minute before agreeing too. The consortium have consistently played hard ball, maybe this is PWC drawing a line saying they have been reaonable with the fee, and that they won't budge from that.
As I say, I just hope it's posturing, and they do a deal, unless there was a plan all along to move from Selhurst.
Thanks, I'm sure a deal will be resolved and with the pressure being put on over the weekend, PWC may bend a little. It is always the case when deals like this are being put together, that details are sketchy at best. There is a lot of "activity" this weekend on getting Palace fans to raise their game and put pressure on various goups (Government/PWC banks, Aglio etc) without them actually knowing if CPFC2010 are actually being offered an excellent deal ........... hope it works out for you and that it is not another Noades inspired profit making opportunity.
New team registered under AFC crystal palace... then crystal palace football club no longer exist. CPFC2010 take over, after buying the ground at cut price. Then they sell the ground to a property developer for a big profit and the developers can then get planning permission (as cpfc no longer exist). Then cpfc2010 use the profit freom selling shithurst to build a new stadium with less running cost
Mind you, I'm also surprised at how Jordan has managed to push Noades out as the most detested person (by palace fans) at Selhurst.