[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]Im awaiting the nod from the powers that be. 5 clubs have expreesed a interest in Bailey 1 from div 1 ( no prizes for guessing who) and 4 from the championship.
So he's not gone FACT, he's just talking to other clubs FACT, which is exactly what most people expect FACT. And it's possible for the club to offer him a deal FACT and he might just accept that deal FACT because he isn't gone yet FACT.
Back on topic, I hope Sam does stay, but only if we can afford him
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]If he goes who do people expect to get as a replacement? If he goes I bet any winger we get in, or Wagstaff, is just as frustrating and inconsistent. I doubt we'd get someone with the goals and energy of Wagstaff, and the assists and quick feet of Sam.
Was Sam really that good with assists? Lets not get into the other players missed the chances argument and look at facts. Sam had an assist every 4.3 games and a goal every 10.75 games. Now although this maybe acceptable (just). For a winger who a lot of people keep saying how well he done with assists, I dont think its to impressive in fact i would say just below average when you consider he's played in his favoured position for 98% of the season. Reid had an assist every 5.3 games and a goal every 4 games. shelvey had an assist every 3.3 games and a goal in every 5 games. Racon well that was quite dire really an assist every 9.5 games and a goal in every 37 games.
Well considering the best in the league is only 16, and he's got more assists than any other Charlton player, I think he has done fairly well. It's not below average when only a handful of players have more assists in the same division. The ones that are wingers are mainly other top 6 clubs with a good regular partnership up front. They're probably better players than Sam, but we're not in the position to buy them.
Racon very poor I agree, Shelvey is a better player and takes set pieces, no surprise there. Reid with his goals has perhaps done a little better, but that doesn't mean Sam has been poor. Can't assume the stats for Reid would mean he'd definitely do it over a whole season either, until he actually does it.
In another post you mention maybe he's not as good as we think, and large said he lacks ambition (which I'd agree with, but I think he also enjoys playing for Charlton) will you be saying things like that if Semedo and Randolph stay?
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]Im awaiting the nod from the powers that be. 5 clubs have expreesed a interest in Bailey 1 from div 1 ( no prizes for guessing who) and 4 from the championship.
But last week you emphatically said he had gone. Like he already signed for someone?
I would be happy for Sam to stay as he IS dangerous and CAN unlock defences. He definitely needs to work on his goalscoring though but - more than anything - he needs to work on his fitness. I've nicknamed him 60-minute-Sam and it's spreading, he should be at his peak of fitness not blowing out of his arse after 15 mins
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]And yet people want to keep Racon when he doesn't score, doesn't tackle, doesn't set up goals and doesn't get about the pitch with an "engine".
Ah, now I see why - "proper" Charlton.
Kind of off-topic but I think people like Racon because he looks class on the ball. There isn't an individual stat to quantify ball retention or clever flicks/passes that start attacks but with a quality player in the middle you would imagine there would be a greater incidence of such things. When Racon was playing so well at the start of the season I'm not sure he actually did a huge amount for his stats but was still important to the team. Afterall, it's not just the last pass with its 'assist' label that is important in an attack.
He doesn't seem to be doing enough, but maybe his stats are too damning and he's been at least a little more important than they suggest.
By the way, this isn't a defense of 'I'd rather keep Racon over Sam'. I personally think the opposite in fact. But maybe Racon is worth keeping too
The Racon thing ....... I see him as a player that keeps the team machine well-oiled and moving, rather than generally a stand out player who changes the course of the game.
He was a huge influence in our phenominal start at the beginning of the season, playing in a midfield 5 creating the platform for Jonjo to do his stuff. And when reinstated in the team in the final 10 matches or so in a midfield 4, even though we weren't so creative going forward, Racon playing in tandem with Semedo tightened our midfield considerably and we didn't leak goals.
The enigma that can be Racon was really highlighted when he came on for Extra Time in The Valley playoff game against Swindon - I know it was 10 v 10 and the game opened up with so many tired legs, but Racon's performance was superb; the best stand out game I can remember him playing.
Find myself not that fussed either way strangely. If he stays he can do a job which is too often frustrating, but who knows he might have a good season. If he goes we'll manage, he's not that good a player. Whether that means playing a style to accomodate what players we end up with, Waggy getting a chance or Parky bringing someone in we'll have to see. I've said i don't think Parky's done a good enough job but i have been impressed with his loans recently so trust him with dealing with whatever happens with Sam.
I'd like him to stay but feel it would probably be better for him to move on. He's in the same situation as Lisbie. Longest serving member quite a bit more divided opinion but at least he doesn't get treated quite as badly as Lisbie did. I'll always rate him and equally find him frustrating.
Racon on the other hand at one point I considered him to have real quality but sadly he's lost his way hopefully his form will pick back up next season but seriously doubt it.
Sam will always frustrate, but if he's staying that's very good news imo. When he plays well he terifies full backs in this league and he did put in some match winning performances last season. As other's have said, no way we'd get better than him of we had to recruit from outside the club, not on our current budget.
Brilliant news. Haters will always hate. If he went he'd be accused of money grabbing, if he stays he's accused of resting in his comfort zone. One of the few players in our squad/league that can turn a game. Doesn't do it as much as we'd like, but still more than worth keeping. If Wagstaff did get the place regularly people would be ripping into him before Xmas.
I think Lloyd Sam and a few of our other players might be involved in the shortest contract talks of all time when they see what's on offer compared with what they used to get.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]I think Lloyd Sam and a few of our other players might be involved in the shortest contract talks of all time when they see what's on offer compared with what they used to get.
Only until they see what other clubs are, or should I say aren't, offering them.
Racon's performance as a sub in the Swindon 2nd leg only served to highlight just how poor and useless he had usually been in central midfield since he got back into the team in February. If he had turned in regular performances like the Swindon one I would have been the first to praise him but he was largely vacuous and, to my amazement, vast numbers continued to praise him against the evidence of their eyes. As far as I'm concerned he is currently one of the most disposible members of our squad and I hope someone comes in for him. If he's still here next season I hope he consistently plays with the kind of guts and skill he showed briefly in the last game - but I doubt it.
Was nearly a year ago to the day that Lloyd Sam told us he wanted to end his career at Charlton.
Although it was in a Croydon Night-club at half 1 in the morning. So may well have been the drink talking.
Either way, he is a great fella, and a great loyal servant to the club. If indeed he does stay im sure next year will be his time to shine. It's been getting better slowly season by season.
[cite]Posted By: Nadou[/cite]Racon's performance as a sub in the Swindon 2nd leg only served to highlight just how poor and useless he had usually been in central midfield since he got back into the team in February. If he had turned in regular performances like the Swindon one I would have been the first to praise him but he was largely vacuous and, to my amazement, vast numbers continued to praise him against the evidence of their eyes. As far as I'm concerned he is currently one of the most disposible members of our squad and I hope someone comes in for him. If he's still here next season I hope he consistently plays with the kind of guts and skill he showed briefly in the last game - but I doubt it.
Racon has been a big disappointment I agree. The question I have now is what actually is his job? He's not a tackler, hard worker, goalscorer or creative player (by creative I don't mean a few flicks and backheels). All he's really done is made us a bit more solid than when we had Bailey in the middle, by not taking risks like making a run into the box.
He can of course keep possession, but so could Matt Spring. Inconsistent wingers are kind of understandable, but not in central midfield.
Big problem is finding a replacement. We need someone cheap, reliable and who will have more effect on the game. But because of that we might be better off with Racon. Can't be many good CMs available to us.
Comments
So he's not gone FACT, he's just talking to other clubs FACT, which is exactly what most people expect FACT. And it's possible for the club to offer him a deal FACT and he might just accept that deal FACT because he isn't gone yet FACT.
Back on topic, I hope Sam does stay, but only if we can afford him
or
get him on a contract so we can get something for him in january.
Racon very poor I agree, Shelvey is a better player and takes set pieces, no surprise there. Reid with his goals has perhaps done a little better, but that doesn't mean Sam has been poor. Can't assume the stats for Reid would mean he'd definitely do it over a whole season either, until he actually does it.
In another post you mention maybe he's not as good as we think, and large said he lacks ambition (which I'd agree with, but I think he also enjoys playing for Charlton) will you be saying things like that if Semedo and Randolph stay?
But last week you emphatically said he had gone. Like he already signed for someone?
And the stats prove it.
Despite often being doubled up on, Lloyd Sam has the ability to unpick a packed defence - who else in our squad does so regularly?
It's just that extra consistancy that would make him the difference between a good player and a great player by this League's standards.
Kind of off-topic but I think people like Racon because he looks class on the ball. There isn't an individual stat to quantify ball retention or clever flicks/passes that start attacks but with a quality player in the middle you would imagine there would be a greater incidence of such things. When Racon was playing so well at the start of the season I'm not sure he actually did a huge amount for his stats but was still important to the team. Afterall, it's not just the last pass with its 'assist' label that is important in an attack.
He doesn't seem to be doing enough, but maybe his stats are too damning and he's been at least a little more important than they suggest.
By the way, this isn't a defense of 'I'd rather keep Racon over Sam'. I personally think the opposite in fact. But maybe Racon is worth keeping too
He was a huge influence in our phenominal start at the beginning of the season, playing in a midfield 5 creating the platform for Jonjo to do his stuff. And when reinstated in the team in the final 10 matches or so in a midfield 4, even though we weren't so creative going forward, Racon playing in tandem with Semedo tightened our midfield considerably and we didn't leak goals.
The enigma that can be Racon was really highlighted when he came on for Extra Time in The Valley playoff game against Swindon - I know it was 10 v 10 and the game opened up with so many tired legs, but Racon's performance was superb; the best stand out game I can remember him playing.
I can dream.
Agreed. Basey can fill in in the middle too but Semedo and Jacko could be pretty special in the middle
Bailey and Racon both overrated IMO - they will both command a fee and that's fine by me if we can recoup around 800k to £1m
Find myself not that fussed either way strangely. If he stays he can do a job which is too often frustrating, but who knows he might have a good season. If he goes we'll manage, he's not that good a player. Whether that means playing a style to accomodate what players we end up with, Waggy getting a chance or Parky bringing someone in we'll have to see. I've said i don't think Parky's done a good enough job but i have been impressed with his loans recently so trust him with dealing with whatever happens with Sam.
Racon on the other hand at one point I considered him to have real quality but sadly he's lost his way hopefully his form will pick back up next season but seriously doubt it.
He appears lazy and doesn't get involved enough.
If he stays he must run his heart out for the team for the 70 minutes until he substituted.
agree
Not his main role in the side. He's the holding midfield player who allows the others to get forward and do that while he is helping out the defence.
Like Mark Kinsella on steroids.
That's not his job. But still on a par with Racon for goals scored.
How many attacks did he break up. How many goals did he stop us conceding.
He is infinitely more important than Racon who is a show pony and too slow on the ball
Only until they see what other clubs are, or should I say aren't, offering them.
When it's on the OS..........
Although it was in a Croydon Night-club at half 1 in the morning. So may well have been the drink talking.
Either way, he is a great fella, and a great loyal servant to the club. If indeed he does stay im sure next year will be his time to shine. It's been getting better slowly season by season.
Totally agree
He can of course keep possession, but so could Matt Spring. Inconsistent wingers are kind of understandable, but not in central midfield.
Big problem is finding a replacement. We need someone cheap, reliable and who will have more effect on the game. But because of that we might be better off with Racon. Can't be many good CMs available to us.