It's pointless to be a vegetarian. Human beings have an omnviorous digestive system and omnivorous dentition. We were designed to eat a wide variety of foods (one of the reasons we are so 'successful' as a species) and arguably the food we are least designed to cope with eating an inordinate amount of is vegetables. Animals designed to eat foliage and greenstuffs generally have a very specific gastric setup that enables them to do this and achieve maximum nourishment from it. We don't possess that.
Not saying that you can't supplement your vegetarian diet and exist perfectly healthily nowadays - just that it isn't 'natural' to do so.
Not saying that you can't supplement your vegetarian diet and exist perfectly healthily nowadays - just that it isn't 'natural' to do so.[/quote]
What does "natural" mean? Is buying a Doner Kebab pizza from Iceland "natural"?
Humans can live perfectly healthily with or without meat. Myself I've lived without meat for all of my adult life, without ever needing to eat supplements. I'm rarely ill and am a fairly bit unit. I'm not saying that everybody has to be veggie as I think it's a personal choice, but an awful lot of horlicks is talked about the health risks of vegetarianism.
Oh and Jimmy - six words for you "une omelette, s 'il vous plaît" ;o)
Surely, a vegetarian just needs to be a bit more aware of what they need nutritionally?
A vegetarian diet will give the body everything it needs, providing it is balanced and not nutritionally deficient.
A meat eater won't necessarily think about what his body needs, as he will get much of his nutritional requirements from a meat meal - but will still lack many minerals and trace elements if he doesn't include vegetables and eat a balanced diet.
Medical opinion seems to be along the lines that people who eat a heavy meat diet, can eventually suffer from many diseases related to difficulty in the human digestive system breaking down meat quickly.
Apparently some meat products, particularly red meat and fatty meat, can stay in the intestine for more than 7 days gradually putrifying - which apart from discomfort and a feeling of being 'a bit under the weather', over time can make the body prone to serious disease.
In any case, most people take more care in planning their holidays, rather than ensuring the food they eat is has the balanced nutrition that their body requires to function healthily.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Surely, a vegetarian just needs to be a bit more aware of what they need nutritionally? [/quote]
I think you answered your own point very well Oggy! I'd say meat eating and veggie diets CAN both be perfectly healthy. Veggie diets need to include sources of protein, meat eaters need to make sure they don't forget to include green veg, fruit, or fibre.
Oggy's link is literally the most disturbing thing I have ever read on the internet. The use of 'specimen' and 'animal' throughout is quite sick! I'm sure there will be someone reading that somewhere who thinks this is a good idea, and go looking for a 'specimen', quite worrying the depth of info available online though I can't say I'm surprised....
Personally I think the slaughter of a human (who you can communicate with effectively) and an animal (who in my opinion you can't) are two different things, so don't quite see the link myself. I can see the counter argument though. Each to their own on the veggie debate, but personally a veggie diet would bore me (and I have lived with more than one veggie so have experience of vegetarianism.
Personally I think the slaughter of a human (who you can communicate with effectively) and an animal (who in my opinion you can't) are two different things, so don't quite see the link myself..
This is interesting. I've often thought that if animals could talk then people would stop eating them. This is because they would quite simply ask us not to kill them. A debate would ensue and people would just feel too guilty. Imagine for example a cow mourning the death of its calf on live television! A bit like in Escape From Planet Of The Apes
Personally I'm sure that humans would turn off meat, but I don't need to hear the cries for mercy, just as I don't need to speak to a Pakastani to empathise with them (I say empathise because I lost my home last year in a fire so I count that as similarish circumstances). I can also sympathise with the animals (although I can't empathise).
Also, using Pakistanis as an example: I can't speak their language so I can't communicate with them - does that mean I should value their lives less than someone who speaks English?
Oh Jimmy, you're just being ridiculous now. If you can't communicate with a pakistani then that's your problem. You might not be able to speak the same language, but that's not the same thing.
Still not sure how the hell my thread about the shite that Iceland served up turned into a debate about cannibalism and pakistani's, but can we pl;ease just leabe it there?
[cite]Posted By: allez les addicks[/cite]Personally I think the slaughter of a human (who you can communicate with effectively) and an animal (who in my opinion you can't) are two different things, so don't quite see the link myself.
Strange logic, Allez.
How effectively does a 3 month baby communicate? But we wouldn't eat the baby just because it can't talk.
Personally I think the slaughter of a human (who you can communicate with effectively) and an animal (who in my opinion you can't) are two different things, so don't quite see the link myself..
Also, using Pakistanis as an example: I can't speak their language so I can't communicate with them - does that mean I should value their lives less than someone who speaks English?
I did think as I wrote that about the language issue, and I have concluded that I can still communicate with someone like that through body language in a way I can't with an animal. I can also emphasise with another human's feelings and emotional state far more than with an animal, so I would treat them differently.
Saying that, on your other point of wondering what would happen if animals could talk, I personally think it would be irrelevant for I think this debate is one of nature vs nurture. For example if we lived in a cannibalistic society, then we would be brought up in a place where eating human is the norm; as it is, we are brought up in a world where it is socially acceptable to eat other animals but not human.
Anyway, we have digressed from the major issue. How stupid and money-hungry does Jason Donovan look in the Iceland ads? Quite why anyone would go to a certain brand of supermarket because he is in it's adverts wearing tights and suspenders is beyond me....
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]
Personally I think Iceland have gone downhill since they ditched the classy "mum of the year" Kerry Katona from their ads.
Funny thing is that compared to most of their customers I imagine she seems like Mother Theresa! Don't you hate it when brands detach themselves from their core markets?
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]I see you can get 'alphabet potato shapes' for £1 at Iceland. What's wrong with normal chips?
Potato, education, excessive salt and cholesteral all in one bite size chunk - and all for a quid. What more could any discerning mother hope to feed her offspring?
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]I see you can get 'alphabet potato shapes' for £1 at Iceland. What's wrong with normal chips?
Potato, education, excessive salt and cholesteral all in one bite size chunk - and all for a quid. What more could any discerning mother hope to feed her offspring?
If you make the word 'H-U-M-A-N' out of them and eat it, does that make you a cannibal? ;o)
Personally I think the slaughter of a human (who you can communicate with effectively) and an animal (who in my opinion you can't) are two different things, so don't quite see the link myself..
I did think as I wrote that about the language issue, and I have concluded that I can still communicate with someone like that through body language in a way I can't with an animal.
You can most certainly shake hands with a dog.
So you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it (which I suspect the Koreans frequently do)
Reindeer is nice. Very flavourful - a bit gamey for some tastes, but very tender and with a low fat content. You should try it fried if you get the chance - it's awesome. I've had it in Finland - they chuck a load of pepper in with it and serve it with pickles & mash.
Comments
Not saying that you can't supplement your vegetarian diet and exist perfectly healthily nowadays - just that it isn't 'natural' to do so.
Not saying that you can't supplement your vegetarian diet and exist perfectly healthily nowadays - just that it isn't 'natural' to do so.[/quote]
What does "natural" mean? Is buying a Doner Kebab pizza from Iceland "natural"?
Humans can live perfectly healthily with or without meat. Myself I've lived without meat for all of my adult life, without ever needing to eat supplements. I'm rarely ill and am a fairly bit unit. I'm not saying that everybody has to be veggie as I think it's a personal choice, but an awful lot of horlicks is talked about the health risks of vegetarianism.
Oh and Jimmy - six words for you "une omelette, s 'il vous plaît" ;o)
A vegetarian diet will give the body everything it needs, providing it is balanced and not nutritionally deficient.
A meat eater won't necessarily think about what his body needs, as he will get much of his nutritional requirements from a meat meal - but will still lack many minerals and trace elements if he doesn't include vegetables and eat a balanced diet.
Medical opinion seems to be along the lines that people who eat a heavy meat diet, can eventually suffer from many diseases related to difficulty in the human digestive system breaking down meat quickly.
Apparently some meat products, particularly red meat and fatty meat, can stay in the intestine for more than 7 days gradually putrifying - which apart from discomfort and a feeling of being 'a bit under the weather', over time can make the body prone to serious disease.
In any case, most people take more care in planning their holidays, rather than ensuring the food they eat is has the balanced nutrition that their body requires to function healthily.
[/quote]
I think you answered your own point very well Oggy! I'd say meat eating and veggie diets CAN both be perfectly healthy. Veggie diets need to include sources of protein, meat eaters need to make sure they don't forget to include green veg, fruit, or fibre.
I love meat but both Iceland and Lidl's veggie pizza's are the nuts
Personally I think the slaughter of a human (who you can communicate with effectively) and an animal (who in my opinion you can't) are two different things, so don't quite see the link myself. I can see the counter argument though. Each to their own on the veggie debate, but personally a veggie diet would bore me (and I have lived with more than one veggie so have experience of vegetarianism.
£5 for a pack of steaks.
This is interesting. I've often thought that if animals could talk then people would stop eating them. This is because they would quite simply ask us not to kill them. A debate would ensue and people would just feel too guilty. Imagine for example a cow mourning the death of its calf on live television! A bit like in Escape From Planet Of The Apes
Personally I'm sure that humans would turn off meat, but I don't need to hear the cries for mercy, just as I don't need to speak to a Pakastani to empathise with them (I say empathise because I lost my home last year in a fire so I count that as similarish circumstances). I can also sympathise with the animals (although I can't empathise).
Also, using Pakistanis as an example: I can't speak their language so I can't communicate with them - does that mean I should value their lives less than someone who speaks English?
Still not sure how the hell my thread about the shite that Iceland served up turned into a debate about cannibalism and pakistani's, but can we pl;ease just leabe it there?
Strange logic, Allez.
How effectively does a 3 month baby communicate? But we wouldn't eat the baby just because it can't talk.
Am very close to asking admin to delete my own thread here.
I did think as I wrote that about the language issue, and I have concluded that I can still communicate with someone like that through body language in a way I can't with an animal. I can also emphasise with another human's feelings and emotional state far more than with an animal, so I would treat them differently.
Saying that, on your other point of wondering what would happen if animals could talk, I personally think it would be irrelevant for I think this debate is one of nature vs nurture. For example if we lived in a cannibalistic society, then we would be brought up in a place where eating human is the norm; as it is, we are brought up in a world where it is socially acceptable to eat other animals but not human.
Anyway, we have digressed from the major issue. How stupid and money-hungry does Jason Donovan look in the Iceland ads? Quite why anyone would go to a certain brand of supermarket because he is in it's adverts wearing tights and suspenders is beyond me....
Jason Donovan in tights? That's more the measure of where this should be.
Personally I think Iceland have gone downhill since they ditched the classy "mum of the year" Kerry Katona from their ads.
Funny thing is that compared to most of their customers I imagine she seems like Mother Theresa! Don't you hate it when brands detach themselves from their core markets?
Potato, education, excessive salt and cholesteral all in one bite size chunk - and all for a quid. What more could any discerning mother hope to feed her offspring?
You can most certainly shake hands with a dog.
So you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it (which I suspect the Koreans frequently do)
I can't Bear Zebra crossings.
Blimey this thread's gone off on one hasn't it.
As for reindeer I had it in Stockholm. Lovely it was too, in a sort of a stew. Bit like venison.
Not really. They stock reindeer meat in Iceland. How are they allowed to sell it is what I want to know. :-)
* the 4 legged type, not the Croydon type
A fiver!! Thats Deer.