The plans would include a new stadium built on the National Sports Centre site, with a capacity eventually rising to 40,000, together with other facilities, including an aquatic centre next to the stadium and a new athletics track for the use of the local community.
Are they trying to re-sign Andy Johnson then?? ;-)
The plans would include a new stadium built on the National Sports Centre site, with a capacity eventually rising to 40,000, together with other facilities, including an aquatic centre next to the stadium and a new athletics track for the use of the local community.
Are they trying to re-sign Andy Johnson then?? ;-)
The plans would include a new stadium built on the National Sports Centre site, with a capacity eventually rising to 40,000, together with other facilities, including an aquatic centre next to the stadium and a new athletics track for the use of the local community.
Are they trying to re-sign Andy Johnson then?? ;-)
Not true, it is to make them feel like they are at the seaside (Brighton)
Some months ago, there was an article on the O/S about us moving to a new stadium at the Greenwich Peninsula that met with stern resistance from fans - could never understand that attitude TBH.
But the Baseball Ground, The Dell, Elm Park, Withdean were nowhere near as advanced or had the capability to expand significantly without a ridiculously expensive overhaul like The Valley is.
We've done it bit by bit, retained our identity and history and still can increase. There are examples to counteract yours of clubs expanding their existing grounds and being successful - United the leading example.
Moving to the peninsula would not suddenly see the bankers start supporting Charlton and I'd suggest the transport links are a lot worse for 95% of our fans.
Just because 'everyone else' does it, doesn't mean we have to.
We already have/had permission for 40,000 capacity. Forget the sentimental element of the Valley? After 50 years, nah not me. Not saying I'd give up if we moved, but as more and more people are priced out of top live games can't see the attraction of a potential white elephant by the river. "Your ground is too big for you" etc
Aye, staying at The Valley will result in relegation and a new ground will result in European football, of course it's all so simple! Anyone know a club for sale?
The majority of football stadia were built in what is now universally accepted as totally unacceptable residential streets with difficulty for the modern fan who doesn't turn out of the local factory and walk to the ground on a Saturday afternoon but needs to arrive by car or decent public transport on any number of days of the week. Not many grounds can fulfil the aspirations of clubs at the top and even the redevelopment of those stadiums used by lowly teams is expensive and not cost effective as an alternative to moving to a new site with purpose built facilities. In an ideal world I would like Charlton to be able to stay at The Valley and grow as required but if there are real ambitions for the club then I fear at some point moving will be inevitable. The peninsula site with its good transport links won't be available forever and if it is considered to be in the best long term interest of the club to move then I for one would be sad but exited in equal measure.
Aye, staying at The Valley will result in relegation and a new ground will result in European football, of course it's all so simple! Anyone know a club for sale?
The outdoor arena down the road has no no roof - think of how many people we get down the valley when it's cold and damp with a bit of protection due to having a roof ; now think of how many people we would get in an open air arena when it's cold , damp and Rainy- 5k ? The majority of the football season is during times that there is rain , so there could be a lot of money lost
The outdoor arena down the road has no no roof - think of how many people we get down the valley when it's cold and damp with a bit of protection due to having a roof ; now think of how many people we would get in an open air arena when it's cold , damp and Rainy- 5k ? The majority of the football season is during times that there is rain , so there could be a lot of money lost
If and it's a big if Charlton were to move to a new stadium then I can categorically assure you that there will be a roof.
Darlington havent stopped rising since they moved grounds. Or Derby. Or Coventry. Or Middlesbrough.
The Darlington arena has all but killed the club and due to the small crowds Coventry would actually be better off financially if they were still at Highfield Road! Cardiff's new ground was the missing piece of the jig saw needed for their push for the premiership.
Darlington havent stopped rising since they moved grounds. Or Derby. Or Coventry. Or Middlesbrough.
The Darlington arena has all but killed the club and due to the small crowds Coventry would actually be better off financially if they were still at Highfield Road! Cardiff's new ground was the missing piece of the jig saw needed for their push for the premiership.
In contrast, would Arsenal or Soton or ManC or Reading or Boro or Sunderlands fans say that they would still prefer to be at their old grounds ?? I'm just trying to say that it is totally and utterly wrong to dismiss it just because of having a head-in-the-sand, stick in the mud attitude. If it shows an obvious financial benefit and shows that we could move forward then it should be seriously looked at - instead of just dismissing it for the sake of it. Just makes no sense whatsoever.
Yes, there's an obvious financial benefit moving to a 40k stadium after averaging 17k this season. 40k stadiums are dead cheap.
Strange that missed out on Hull and Swansea, the two best examples...
We already have/had permission for 40,000 capacity. Forget the sentimental element of the Valley? After 50 years, nah not me. Not saying I'd give up if we moved, but as more and more people are priced out of top live games can't see the attraction of a potential white elephant by the river. "Your ground is too big for you" etc
Cant believe that anyone would say that transport would be worse for 95 per cent of fans - have you ever been to the O2?? .
Doesn't everyone moan about the useless Jubilee Line at the O2? How else do you get to the peninsula? 40,000 fans all changing at London Bridge to get the Jubilee?
Change the thread title. I couldn't give a toss about a discussion about new stadia for palace.
I have yet to see proof of any cash cow at the end of any premiership rainbow. The only clubs who really compete in the premiership are those subsidised by billionaires. Name any club other than man u who make an annual profit on a regular basis. How much money did man city lose last year? I believe it was close to 200 million.
I would be perfectly happy to build up the quality of our team slowly and gain promotion to the prem when we earn it. Once in the prem we should pay the players their bonuses and continue to sign cheap from the lower leagues. If that means instant relegation then so be it. However if we survived by some miracle then we could look to expand the valley. Let a few more years pass and if we are selling out 40,000 seats (with cafc fans not fans of other clubs) whilst still at the top table then we have a real conversation about moving to a super dooper 60,000 all seater state of the art stadium. I'd much rather we financially justify any new stadium with an appropriate supporter base and league position. I'm not looking to support a club who can stroke my ego by buying wins at the whim of some unseen billionaire knowing at any moment that success is built on floating clouds that could disappear at any time. Earn it through hard work and then enjoy the success.
If Charlton had neve left the Valley in 1985, the I can quite imagine us (like Millwall) moving to a new ground in the early 90s, the old Valley was a dump... But our circumstances are complately different now, we've already spent a fortune on our current ground, currently it is easily large enough for our fanbase, and it generates lots of commercial and corporate money already. Further, the Greenwich peninsula is a poor location for the majority of Charlton fans who come from Bexleyheath, Dartford and Kent, the Jubilee Line is no good for them, and imagine what the roads around there will be like is there is a blockage at the Blackwall Tunnel.
We already have/had permission for 40,000 capacity. Forget the sentimental element of the Valley? After 50 years, nah not me. Not saying I'd give up if we moved, but as more and more people are priced out of top live games can't see the attraction of a potential white elephant by the river. "Your ground is too big for you" etc
Cant believe that anyone would say that transport would be worse for 95 per cent of fans - have you ever been to the O2?? .
Doesn't everyone moan about the useless Jubilee Line at the O2? How else do you get to the peninsula? 40,000 fans all changing at London Bridge to get the Jubilee?
Ever heard of the huge car parks at the O2 ? Or the 472 and 161 buses, (which incidentally, go past the Valley )
What about the large amont of fans who get trains from Kent to Charlton Station? Much harder for them.
As a few have stated, this seems to have derailed the original argument, so i'll start a new discussion - should keep us arguing for a couple of days !
I don't think there is anything wrong with the club having an interest in what happens with the Penisula masterplan, if a 40k stadium is built, we should be in a position to protect the long term survival of the club, over someone else moving there.
We already have/had permission for 40,000 capacity. Forget the sentimental element of the Valley? After 50 years, nah not me. Not saying I'd give up if we moved, but as more and more people are priced out of top live games can't see the attraction of a potential white elephant by the river. "Your ground is too big for you" etc
Cant believe that anyone would say that transport would be worse for 95 per cent of fans - have you ever been to the O2?? .
Doesn't everyone moan about the useless Jubilee Line at the O2? How else do you get to the peninsula? 40,000 fans all changing at London Bridge to get the Jubilee?
Ever heard of the huge car parks at the O2 ? Or the 472 and 161 buses, (which incidentally, go past the Valley )
What about the large amont of fans who get trains from Kent to Charlton Station? Much harder for them.
Charlton being Charlton, i'm sure that the club would set up a shuttle bus between Charlton station and Peninsula. Isnt there also a plan to extend the Jubilee to Woolwich Arsenal? or am i dreaming that up ?
So you admit it would be harder for a huge amount of our fans to attend home games?
Charlton being Charlton, i'm sure that the club would set up a shuttle bus between Charlton station and Peninsula. Isnt there also a plan to extend the Jubilee to Woolwich Arsenal? or am i dreaming that up ?
Dreaming it up.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the club having an interest in what happens with the Penisula masterplan, if a 40k stadium is built, we should be in a position to protect the long term survival of the club, over someone else moving there.
The advantage of The Valley is that it can be expanded as and when needed.
It was too big for us in League 1; it was too big for us in the Championship, if we are honest about it.
There is no good reason for moving to a new ground unless it offers more facilities and/or a bigger capacity, but we are not likely to need a much bigger capacity in the very short term.
The suggestions that in the Premier League we could justify 40,000 ignores the fact that we are incredibly unlikely to be able to stay in the Premier League for an extended period. Even if we can manage to average half of our time in the Premier League and half in the second tier we would have massive shortfalls on the running of the stadium. It has been suggested that The Valley (at 27,000) was one of the causes for the financial hardship in the Championship, never mind the third division.
Moving to a 40,000 stadium and increasing the capacity by 13,000 in one hit could be disastrous. Building it up by a few thousand at a time as we need it is a much more sensible approach, in my opinion.
Portsmouth I admire your logical, pragmatic, approach but I think many don't like it. For me it's not all about The Valley but the (in my view) inaccurate extrapolation that by default a bigger stadium means more fans and more money. Man Utd might be able to sell as many seats as they can build. Maybe they could sell out a 200,000 stadium each week, I don't know, but I'm confident that, even in the Premier League, we would would not have unlimited demand for Charlton matches. Moving to a 40,000 stadium could be a complete disaster in the Premier League, never mind in the division that we have spent much more time in the last fifty years.
From what Murray said they were concerned about a West Ham type move, so if the Olympic Stadium doesn't work out, they might go for that stadium instead.
Comments
;-)
We've done it bit by bit, retained our identity and history and still can increase. There are examples to counteract yours of clubs expanding their existing grounds and being successful - United the leading example.
Moving to the peninsula would not suddenly see the bankers start supporting Charlton and I'd suggest the transport links are a lot worse for 95% of our fans.
Just because 'everyone else' does it, doesn't mean we have to.
Forget the sentimental element of the Valley? After 50 years, nah not me.
Not saying I'd give up if we moved, but as more and more people are priced out of top live games can't see the attraction of a potential white elephant by the river.
"Your ground is too big for you" etc
The majority of the football season is during times that there is rain , so there could be a lot of money lost
Actually, the day we ever drop below league 1 is the day I call time
Yeh, lets hear what it is before we jump in with both feet, eh?
;-)
Strange that missed out on Hull and Swansea, the two best examples...
I have yet to see proof of any cash cow at the end of any premiership rainbow. The only clubs who really compete in the premiership are those subsidised by billionaires. Name any club other than man u who make an annual profit on a regular basis.
How much money did man city lose last year? I believe it was close to 200 million.
I would be perfectly happy to build up the quality of our team slowly and gain promotion to the prem when we earn it. Once in the prem we should pay the players their bonuses and continue to sign cheap from the lower leagues. If that means instant relegation then so be it. However if we survived by some miracle then we could look to expand the valley. Let a few more years pass and if we are selling out 40,000 seats (with cafc fans not fans of other clubs) whilst still at the top table then we have a real conversation about moving to a super dooper 60,000 all seater state of the art stadium. I'd much rather we financially justify any new stadium with an appropriate supporter base and league position.
I'm not looking to support a club who can stroke my ego by buying wins at the whim of some unseen billionaire knowing at any moment that success is built on floating clouds that could disappear at any time. Earn it through hard work and then enjoy the success.
But our circumstances are complately different now, we've already spent a fortune on our current ground, currently it is easily large enough for our fanbase, and it generates lots of commercial and corporate money already. Further, the Greenwich peninsula is a poor location for the majority of Charlton fans who come from Bexleyheath, Dartford and Kent, the Jubilee Line is no good for them, and imagine what the roads around there will be like is there is a blockage at the Blackwall Tunnel.
Just out of interest, how old are you?
It was too big for us in League 1; it was too big for us in the Championship, if we are honest about it.
There is no good reason for moving to a new ground unless it offers more facilities and/or a bigger capacity, but we are not likely to need a much bigger capacity in the very short term.
The suggestions that in the Premier League we could justify 40,000 ignores the fact that we are incredibly unlikely to be able to stay in the Premier League for an extended period. Even if we can manage to average half of our time in the Premier League and half in the second tier we would have massive shortfalls on the running of the stadium. It has been suggested that The Valley (at 27,000) was one of the causes for the financial hardship in the Championship, never mind the third division.
Moving to a 40,000 stadium and increasing the capacity by 13,000 in one hit could be disastrous. Building it up by a few thousand at a time as we need it is a much more sensible approach, in my opinion.
Portsmouth I admire your logical, pragmatic, approach but I think many don't like it. For me it's not all about The Valley but the (in my view) inaccurate extrapolation that by default a bigger stadium means more fans and more money. Man Utd might be able to sell as many seats as they can build. Maybe they could sell out a 200,000 stadium each week, I don't know, but I'm confident that, even in the Premier League, we would would not have unlimited demand for Charlton matches. Moving to a 40,000 stadium could be a complete disaster in the Premier League, never mind in the division that we have spent much more time in the last fifty years.