The outdoor arena down the road has no no roof - think of how many people we get down the valley when it's cold and damp with a bit of protection due to having a roof ; now think of how many people we would get in an open air arena when it's cold , damp and Rainy- 5k ? The majority of the football season is during times that there is rain , so there could be a lot of money lost
If and it's a big if Charlton were to move to a new stadium then I can categorically assure you that there will be a roof.
Thank you Shooters, has anybody heard of negotiation ? If it doesnt suit us then we dont move, simples. If its to be a state-of-the-art stadium then it will have to have 1) a roof (or 2) and 2) Decent beer. If it is beneficial to the club and helps us move forward then sentiment and heritage, i'm afraid, goes out the window. You cant just sit there and say you're not moving because you've always gone to the Valley,and your Dad and Grandad did too if so, then goodbye - you can stay there and watch Dartford, coz i'm going to the new stadium to watch us play Arsenal. Move on, get real, and think of what could happen. To me, its a total, absolute no-brainer- its at least a no-brainer not to dismiss it before we know what it is. ! Surely.
You said it was " a 40,000 stadium effectively given to us" but none of that is accurate.
There has been vague talk of an arena that might be built, funding, shape, capacity, roof, usage not specified. Nowhere has it officially been said it will have 40k seats or that anyone is going to be given to anyone.
Charlton, quite rightly, have taken an interest because they need to be aware of what is happening on their doorstep for both the opportunities (a new state of the art stadium perhaps) and the threats (another team moving in) such an arena might offer. That is because the Club have heard of negotiation and want to be round the table from the start to know about and influence what might happen.
Nothing is agreed and most likely the arena won't be built for many years, if ever.
Personally I have no problem moving to another stadium but there are certain caveats on that. The Stadium would have to be owned or under our control, be significantly better in size and facilities that is potentially available at the Valley, It would have to have the potential to generate significantly more income than the Valley, it would have to be designed primarily for football (ie no running track and with proper ends), it would have to be local ie in Greenwich, the road and public transport links from SE London and Kent would have to be as good if not better than for the Valley and finally the pricing in a significant part of the stadium would have to be in line with current Valley pricing.
From what Murray said they were concerned about a West Ham type move, so if the Olympic Stadium doesn't work out, they might go for that stadium instead.
We already have/had permission for 40,000 capacity. Forget the sentimental element of the Valley? After 50 years, nah not me. Not saying I'd give up if we moved, but as more and more people are priced out of top live games can't see the attraction of a potential white elephant by the river. "Your ground is too big for you" etc
Cant believe that anyone would say that transport would be worse for 95 per cent of fans - have you ever been to the O2?? .
Doesn't everyone moan about the useless Jubilee Line at the O2? How else do you get to the peninsula? 40,000 fans all changing at London Bridge to get the Jubilee?
Ever heard of the huge car parks at the O2 ? Or the 472 and 161 buses, (which incidentally, go past the Valley )
So all those fans who drive to The Valley & I presume generally park up for free, have to navigate the peninsula and pay the charges in Car Park 2, being £7 for 2-4 hours.
The other car park are for O2 users and seem to need pre-booking for £17.50.
So you'd want to see Charlton fans paying more to park on top of what would probably be more expensive ticket prices & concession prices.
Added to that, with there being no direct trains to the O2 from Kent, you may see an increase in those driving, causing more congestion & pollution.
Alternatively, all those who go direct to Charlton station from Kent would either need to get off there & get a bus, go to London Bridge & tube it or some other means of getting to near the O2, effectively making it more expensive for Charlton fans to travel.
It's very prudent to consider the location, for many issues, but overall, (and to be fair the same applies to Millwall), it'd be more beneficial to you to stay where you are or in fact move further out, either to outer Greenwich or into North Kent where a growing number of both our fanbases reside.
Again, have you ever heard of negotiation ? You would expect that Charlton FC would negotiate free(or near free) parking for games - all this sort of stuff would be points to negotiate. Most of the other points i have 'answered'
How can you negotiate free parking when there are limited car parking spaces? & how would the council sign off the environmental impact of additional congestion & pollution if they have no revenue from car parking charges to offset it?
You are seriously demented if you think the private owners of all the car parks around the o2 could be negotiated into giving up the revenue potential of 40k football supporters. The council have no say in it, all the car parks are privately owned and operated. You could always negotiate with those owners, but what have we got to offer that is worth more than all that parking revenue? You can only negotiate if the goal is a mutually agreeable outcome.
The car parks are privately owned. They do not have to do any deals on their charges. As there is little (or no) free parking in the area I would imagine that they would not reduce the charges. It if were my company I would refuse to negotiate if I owned the land.
You talk selling out a 40k ground to all these teams like its a foregone conclusion, bigger ground doesn't always equal better football. Say Leyton Orient moved into the Olympic Stadium, would they suddenly attract 75000 fans and shoot up the leagues? No.
The idea of a stadium on the peninsula is nice, but it won't happen anytime soon. Do you have any idea how much a rail/dlr/tube extension would cost? Imagine if we were playing a tuesday night game against millwall at the same time there was a major concert in the O2, it would be carnage! Now if we spool back 15 years or so and negotiated a way of us getting the dome on the cheap, then we'll be in business
Portsmouth it's about time you said Solly :-) There's no free parking, there's no train service from Kent, you can't walk there & the buses would take longer.
Watch out, the Luddites have been released ! I'm sorry, but if you are going to give the argument that we shouldnt move because it might be harder to park, then i feel for you, i really do. Dont you all realise that everything is negotiable is business. If noone can park because of exhorbitant money-grabbers, then the council gets involved, or traders around put pressure on because they are losing out. - its ALL negotiable ! There are good,efficient,effective ways around these 'problems'
Wow, i didnt realise that there were so many Ostriches out there masquerading as Charlton fans - no wonder we fluctuate between the divisions - ye gods.
I don't know if this was aimed at me, but if NCP will not reduce their parking charges for the commuters that work in Canary Wharf (the wealthiest and most powerful institutions in the UK) or for the O2 what, on earth, makes you think they would agree to reduce their prices for a football club that has, let's face it, been in the third division for the last three years?
We already have/had permission for 40,000 capacity. Forget the sentimental element of the Valley? After 50 years, nah not me. Not saying I'd give up if we moved, but as more and more people are priced out of top live games can't see the attraction of a potential white elephant by the river. "Your ground is too big for you" etc
Cant believe that anyone would say that transport would be worse for 95 per cent of fans - have you ever been to the O2?? .
Doesn't everyone moan about the useless Jubilee Line at the O2? How else do you get to the peninsula? 40,000 fans all changing at London Bridge to get the Jubilee?
Ever heard of the huge car parks at the O2 ? Or the 472 and 161 buses, (which incidentally, go past the Valley )
but have you seen the cost of parking.
In any case I think you'll find the developers want a baseball stadium that can be be used for open air music events
Leaving the Valley, who ever heard fo such nonsense, have we really such short memories? Not interested in any opportunities that arose elsewhere when I extremely happy with the growth on and off the picth we currently have where we are,
The old den new den experience or going to that awful Colchester ground should be enough, if I am going to stick my head in the sand at the expence of progress I hope its a good old, reclaimed quarry/sandpit in SE7 where the spirt of 47 and even 92 still exists, I would fight with every thing I had not to loose this wonderful place again....
Leaving the Valley, who ever heard fo such nonsense, have we really such short memories? Not interested in any opportunities that arose elsewhere when I extremely happy with the growth on and off the picth we currently have where we are,
The old den new den experience or going to that awful Colchester ground should be enough, if I am going to stick my head in the sand at the expence of progress I hope its a good old, reclaimed quarry/sandpit in SE7 where the spirt of 47 and even 92 still exists, I would fight with every thing I had not to loose this wonderful place again....
I'll give you a very unlikely hypothetical scenario. We get promoted to the Premier League in a couple of years and after another three or four years of investment in the team by the Mysteons and good stewardship by SCP we find ourselves pushing for a euro place and fill The Valley week in week out. The board say we need to get more bums on seats to enable us to compete but The Valley cannot be expanded. Where does that leave the picture you paint ?
Leaving the Valley, who ever heard fo such nonsense, have we really such short memories? Not interested in any opportunities that arose elsewhere when I extremely happy with the growth on and off the picth we currently have where we are,
The old den new den experience or going to that awful Colchester ground should be enough, if I am going to stick my head in the sand at the expence of progress I hope its a good old, reclaimed quarry/sandpit in SE7 where the spirt of 47 and even 92 still exists, I would fight with every thing I had not to loose this wonderful place again....
Duly filed under Ostrich.
Says the guy who dodges questions he can't answer. Even the answers you do give are for the most part crazy.
"We can negotiate"
Have you seen how congested it gets down at the O2 when an event is on, now you want to add 40k football fans to that.
Of course if it all made sense, we could move in as soon as the thing was built. However, it quite clearly doesn't as many people have pointed out for various different reasons.
Leaving the Valley, who ever heard fo such nonsense, have we really such short memories? Not interested in any opportunities that arose elsewhere when I extremely happy with the growth on and off the picth we currently have where we are,
The old den new den experience or going to that awful Colchester ground should be enough, if I am going to stick my head in the sand at the expence of progress I hope its a good old, reclaimed quarry/sandpit in SE7 where the spirt of 47 and even 92 still exists, I would fight with every thing I had not to loose this wonderful place again....
I'll give you a very unlikely hypothetical scenario. We get promoted to the Premier League in a couple of years and after another three or four years of investment in the team by the Mysteons and good stewardship by SCP we find ourselves pushing for a euro place and fill The Valley week in week out. The board say we need to get more bums on seats to enable us to compete but The Valley cannot be expanded. Where does that leave the picture you paint ?
My painted picture remains a real life study as opposed to an impressionists unlikely hypothetical scenario and would be entitled, simply, "an Ostriches eye view of life" by C S Harris, I think it would prove very popular...
I would also love to see Palace risk all and move to a 40,000 seat stadium with no investment by the Mysterons and attract even less each week whilst not moving forward in any way on the pictch...
I would also love to see Palace risk all and move to a 40,000 seat stadium with no investment by the Mysterons and attract even less each week whilst not moving forward in any way on the pictch...
Simples - come and ground share with us on the peninsular. :-)
Again, have you ever heard of negotiation ? You would expect that Charlton FC would negotiate free(or near free) parking for games - all this sort of stuff would be points to negotiate. Most of the other points i have 'answered'
How can you negotiate free parking when there are limited car parking spaces? & how would the council sign off the environmental impact of additional congestion & pollution if they have no revenue from car parking charges to offset it?
Wot, limited parking on saturday afternoon at 3pm? What about the people going to O2 circa 7pm on saturdays? - think about it- ah, sorry, you're a Smallwall fan, so it might be a little tough for you !
Many people going to the O2 get the tube.
If you think travelling to a new stadium near the O2 would be easier for you all then that's your view. I can't see how it would be any easier except for those who live near a Jubilee line station.
I would also love to see Palace risk all and move to a 40,000 seat stadium with no investment by the Mysterons and attract even less each week whilst not moving forward in any way on the pictch...
Simples - come and ground share with us on the peninsular. :-)
we could give them a lovely stripey portacabin to run things from at least an end would back onto a Sainsburys so they would feel at home...
Comments
You said it was " a 40,000 stadium effectively given to us" but none of that is accurate.
There has been vague talk of an arena that might be built, funding, shape, capacity, roof, usage not specified. Nowhere has it officially been said it will have 40k seats or that anyone is going to be given to anyone.
Charlton, quite rightly, have taken an interest because they need to be aware of what is happening on their doorstep for both the opportunities (a new state of the art stadium perhaps) and the threats (another team moving in) such an arena might offer. That is because the Club have heard of negotiation and want to be round the table from the start to know about and influence what might happen.
Nothing is agreed and most likely the arena won't be built for many years, if ever.
Personally I have no problem moving to another stadium but there are certain caveats on that. The Stadium would have to be owned or under our control, be significantly better in size and facilities that is potentially available at the Valley, It would have to have the potential to generate significantly more income than the Valley, it would have to be designed primarily for football (ie no running track and with proper ends), it would have to be local ie in Greenwich, the road and public transport links from SE London and Kent would have to be as good if not better than for the Valley and finally the pricing in a significant part of the stadium would have to be in line with current Valley pricing.
The other car park are for O2 users and seem to need pre-booking for £17.50.
So you'd want to see Charlton fans paying more to park on top of what would probably be more expensive ticket prices & concession prices.
Added to that, with there being no direct trains to the O2 from Kent, you may see an increase in those driving, causing more congestion & pollution.
Alternatively, all those who go direct to Charlton station from Kent would either need to get off there & get a bus, go to London Bridge & tube it or some other means of getting to near the O2, effectively making it more expensive for Charlton fans to travel.
It's very prudent to consider the location, for many issues, but overall, (and to be fair the same applies to Millwall), it'd be more beneficial to you to stay where you are or in fact move further out, either to outer Greenwich or into North Kent where a growing number of both our fanbases reside.
The idea of a stadium on the peninsula is nice, but it won't happen anytime soon. Do you have any idea how much a rail/dlr/tube extension would cost? Imagine if we were playing a tuesday night game against millwall at the same time there was a major concert in the O2, it would be carnage! Now if we spool back 15 years or so and negotiated a way of us getting the dome on the cheap, then we'll be in business
There's no free parking, there's no train service from Kent, you can't walk there & the buses would take longer.
In any case I think you'll find the developers want a baseball stadium that can be be used for open air music events
The old den new den experience or going to that awful Colchester ground should be enough, if I am going to stick my head in the sand at the expence of progress I hope its a good old, reclaimed quarry/sandpit in SE7 where the spirt of 47 and even 92 still exists, I would fight with every thing I had not to loose this wonderful place again....
BTW, Darlington were relegated to step 5 yesterday.
"We can negotiate"
Have you seen how congested it gets down at the O2 when an event is on, now you want to add 40k football fans to that.
Of course if it all made sense, we could move in as soon as the thing was built. However, it quite clearly doesn't as many people have pointed out for various different reasons.
If you think travelling to a new stadium near the O2 would be easier for you all then that's your view. I can't see how it would be any easier except for those who live near a Jubilee line station.