Theatre is frequently supposed to be challenging and controversial. I knew that eleven years ago when I started this humble thread. It is not unexpected. However it is supposed to be a thread directly related to Theatrical experience, most especially live events. I reckon it is fine to discuss the challenging nature of content experienced, but to introduce unsubstantiated generalisation on this thread does not suit it’s purpose. To describe and dismiss for example the work of Samuel Beckett as leftist propaganda, or part of some kind of non defined ‘woke’ agenda, would be the action of a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity.
I am very much FOR theatre that is challenging. That really is the point. It has become bland and tickbox. Nothing I have shared is unsubstantiated. I certainly didn't dismiss the entire ouevre of Samuel Beckett as propaganda.
As for woke being "non-defined". We KNOW when a piece of "art" be it a play, a film etc has had the woke makeover. You may dismiss this but certainly most people I know ~ whatever their political persuasion will concede this much.
If that makes someone "...a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity" I can only assume this is projection ~ of the most desperate and transparent kind.
It's really good to see a theatre thread among footie fans. So am really grateful to read the recommendations that others have chipped in with here. My mere concern remains however ~ if there is a play on ~ I want to see THAT play not a reinterpretation of it with progressive woke politics ~ that's all. You are free to watch and pay for this stuff if that's what you want You and your children watching. I don't. That is all. So if they could have a "woke-free" certification on the film/play etc ~ that would make life a lot easier. And I have no doubt at all, that if there was such a certification ~ those plays and films and books would sell out every time!!
So you call my comment about crass stupidity is projection, yet you (and most people you know no less) ‘know’ if a piece of art has a ‘woke makeover’. There is an example of ‘projection’ right there. You and the people you know project onto something an opinion that it has had a ‘woke’ makeover. An opinion. Seeing as how woke simply means anti racist, I assume you object to something like the actors for Hamlet and Gertrude being of a different race. Objecting to something like that is crass stupidity.
I and many others wouldn't say woke "... simply means anti-racist". That's absurd. This infers that woke is some sort of virtue. Yet antifa ~ woke par excellence ~ haven't a virtuous bone in their body. They physically attack and kill people who do not share their diabolical views. But are "woke". It's also not about other races because it is white progressive liberals doing the whole woke makeover thing.
It is precisely because woke is all pervasive, disingenuous, fake, virtue-signalling garbage that so many people, quite naturally , don't want to pay good money at the theatre to be subjected to the same marxist nonsense their local councils, govt, institutions force on them 24/7. I fully understand that some people who are pushing the wokery WANT this in every area of their lives. That's okay. They should be given that choice. I'm just asking for entertainment that is free of this. Allowing people the choice for theatre free of this that is all.
Woke means anti racist. Being anti woke is being in favour of racism. You do not have agency over the definition,
Theatre is frequently supposed to be challenging and controversial. I knew that eleven years ago when I started this humble thread. It is not unexpected. However it is supposed to be a thread directly related to Theatrical experience, most especially live events. I reckon it is fine to discuss the challenging nature of content experienced, but to introduce unsubstantiated generalisation on this thread does not suit it’s purpose. To describe and dismiss for example the work of Samuel Beckett as leftist propaganda, or part of some kind of non defined ‘woke’ agenda, would be the action of a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity.
I am very much FOR theatre that is challenging. That really is the point. It has become bland and tickbox. Nothing I have shared is unsubstantiated. I certainly didn't dismiss the entire ouevre of Samuel Beckett as propaganda.
As for woke being "non-defined". We KNOW when a piece of "art" be it a play, a film etc has had the woke makeover. You may dismiss this but certainly most people I know ~ whatever their political persuasion will concede this much.
If that makes someone "...a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity" I can only assume this is projection ~ of the most desperate and transparent kind.
It's really good to see a theatre thread among footie fans. So am really grateful to read the recommendations that others have chipped in with here. My mere concern remains however ~ if there is a play on ~ I want to see THAT play not a reinterpretation of it with progressive woke politics ~ that's all. You are free to watch and pay for this stuff if that's what you want You and your children watching. I don't. That is all. So if they could have a "woke-free" certification on the film/play etc ~ that would make life a lot easier. And I have no doubt at all, that if there was such a certification ~ those plays and films and books would sell out every time!!
So you call my comment about crass stupidity is projection, yet you (and most people you know no less) ‘know’ if a piece of art has a ‘woke makeover’. There is an example of ‘projection’ right there. You and the people you know project onto something an opinion that it has had a ‘woke’ makeover. An opinion. Seeing as how woke simply means anti racist, I assume you object to something like the actors for Hamlet and Gertrude being of a different race. Objecting to something like that is crass stupidity.
I and many others wouldn't say woke "... simply means anti-racist". That's absurd. This infers that woke is some sort of virtue. Yet antifa ~ woke par excellence ~ haven't a virtuous bone in their body. They physically attack and kill people who do not share their diabolical views. But are "woke". It's also not about other races because it is white progressive liberals doing the whole woke makeover thing.
It is precisely because woke is all pervasive, disingenuous, fake, virtue-signalling garbage that so many people, quite naturally , don't want to pay good money at the theatre to be subjected to the same marxist nonsense their local councils, govt, institutions force on them 24/7. I fully understand that some people who are pushing the wokery WANT this in every area of their lives. That's okay. They should be given that choice. I'm just asking for entertainment that is free of this. Allowing people the choice for theatre free of this that is all.
Woke means anti racist. Being anti woke is being in favour of racism. You do not have agency over the definition,
Not to me and a zillion others it doesn't. It means Cultural Elitism and pretentiousness where I come from. A case in point ~ when a rich white middle class progressive (perhaps you count yourself among their number, I don't know ?) speaks about "white privilege" he doesn't speak for a zillion white people who have had very hard lives with none of the "privilege" that Mr suburban Progressive Liberal has had. You know that. And so do I.
So let us say that White Privilege is actually class privilege. And the sole beneficiaries of this privilege are White rich people. And not white poor people. For such people to speak for working class people is a massive insult. Woke of course gives no voice at all to the white working class (that's the whole point) and in actual fact gives very little voice/ power to people of colour also. And many I have spoken to have seen through this sham. I'll happily concede there is white privilege but not until the ones with this privilege hold their hands up and say "I have this white privilege but there are millions of white people who do not have my privilege". Until that day, wokery is a sham. Pedalled not by ethnic minorities who demand equality but invented and forced on others by white cultural elites who hate the white working class poor much more than they care not a jot for people of colour.
I think I'll write a play about it....
It's got to be better than the virtue signalling cack that abounds everywhere currently.
I implore everyone to avoid "I, Joan" at the globe. A perfect example of a woke makeover. The story of a saint "reimagined" (please may I pause and vomit for a moment?) Where it is all about gender binary and queer entertainment (their words not mine) utter garbage.
If anyone hears of any plays that aren't woke ~ principally plays that shoehorn into the narrative/casting certain aspects that the author/scriptwriter/playwright) clearly wasn't saying ) Then would be interested. As an example ...Saw "White fang" at the theatre with my children ~ it was a lesbian snogfest. I would like to have been warned that it had been given a wokeover from the original text.
I’d stick to listening to the fairy tales they tell at church if I were you.
Anything remotely related to a modern, inclusive, progressive society will just give you the hump.
Reading between the lines then ...you are saying ... there are currently no plays of any merit...Do let me know when there are...
Why would any of us want to give the heads up to a WUM like you?
Is he a wind up merchant or just a parent concerned about whether what his children are seeing at the theatre is suitable for them?
I am very much a parent concerned about what my children are watching. Apologies for veering off-topic (theatre) but I wonder how many of those calling me a "wind up merchant" are the same people applauding demonic drag queens "entertaining" young children in Bexley schools recently?
Demonic, lol! My wife had to deal with a couple of freaks like you at her school during pride week. One of them asked her if they were teaching her daughter to become a lesbian.
1984 is clearly here!!. "They will call good ~ bad and bad ~ good".
Aka - they will call normal - freaks and freaks - normal.
If you want drag queens entertaining the children in your school then do allow "freaks" (aka normal people) to choose otherwise.
Pantomime dames have been entertaining children since the early 1800s. Even when I went to pantos as a child their lines were full of innuendo. No problem with drag queens doing the same. I'm sure they won't be telling dirty jokes!
Theatre is frequently supposed to be challenging and controversial. I knew that eleven years ago when I started this humble thread. It is not unexpected. However it is supposed to be a thread directly related to Theatrical experience, most especially live events. I reckon it is fine to discuss the challenging nature of content experienced, but to introduce unsubstantiated generalisation on this thread does not suit it’s purpose. To describe and dismiss for example the work of Samuel Beckett as leftist propaganda, or part of some kind of non defined ‘woke’ agenda, would be the action of a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity.
I am very much FOR theatre that is challenging. That really is the point. It has become bland and tickbox. Nothing I have shared is unsubstantiated. I certainly didn't dismiss the entire ouevre of Samuel Beckett as propaganda.
As for woke being "non-defined". We KNOW when a piece of "art" be it a play, a film etc has had the woke makeover. You may dismiss this but certainly most people I know ~ whatever their political persuasion will concede this much.
If that makes someone "...a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity" I can only assume this is projection ~ of the most desperate and transparent kind.
It's really good to see a theatre thread among footie fans. So am really grateful to read the recommendations that others have chipped in with here. My mere concern remains however ~ if there is a play on ~ I want to see THAT play not a reinterpretation of it with progressive woke politics ~ that's all. You are free to watch and pay for this stuff if that's what you want You and your children watching. I don't. That is all. So if they could have a "woke-free" certification on the film/play etc ~ that would make life a lot easier. And I have no doubt at all, that if there was such a certification ~ those plays and films and books would sell out every time!!
So you call my comment about crass stupidity is projection, yet you (and most people you know no less) ‘know’ if a piece of art has a ‘woke makeover’. There is an example of ‘projection’ right there. You and the people you know project onto something an opinion that it has had a ‘woke’ makeover. An opinion. Seeing as how woke simply means anti racist, I assume you object to something like the actors for Hamlet and Gertrude being of a different race. Objecting to something like that is crass stupidity.
I and many others wouldn't say woke "... simply means anti-racist". That's absurd. This infers that woke is some sort of virtue. Yet antifa ~ woke par excellence ~ haven't a virtuous bone in their body. They physically attack and kill people who do not share their diabolical views. But are "woke". It's also not about other races because it is white progressive liberals doing the whole woke makeover thing.
It is precisely because woke is all pervasive, disingenuous, fake, virtue-signalling garbage that so many people, quite naturally , don't want to pay good money at the theatre to be subjected to the same marxist nonsense their local councils, govt, institutions force on them 24/7. I fully understand that some people who are pushing the wokery WANT this in every area of their lives. That's okay. They should be given that choice. I'm just asking for entertainment that is free of this. Allowing people the choice for theatre free of this that is all.
Woke means anti racist. Being anti woke is being in favour of racism. You do not have agency over the definition,
Not to me and a zillion others it doesn't. It means Cultural Elitism and pretentiousness where I come from. A case in point ~ when a rich white middle class progressive (perhaps you count yourself among their number, I don't know ?) speaks about "white privilege" he doesn't speak for a zillion white people who have had very hard lives with none of the "privilege" that Mr suburban Progressive Liberal has had. You know that. And so do I.
So let us say that White Privilege is actually class privilege. And the sole beneficiaries of this privilege are White rich people. And not white poor people. For such people to speak for working class people is a massive insult. Woke of course gives no voice at all to the white working class (that's the whole point) and in actual fact gives very little voice/ power to people of colour also. And many I have spoken to have seen through this sham. I'll happily concede there is white privilege but not until the ones with this privilege hold their hands up and say "I have this white privilege but there are millions of white people who do not have my privilege". Until that day, wokery is a sham. Pedalled not by ethnic minorities who demand equality but invented and forced on others by white cultural elites who hate the white working class poor much more than they care not a jot for people of colour.
I think I'll write a play about it....
It's got to be better than the virtue signalling cack that abounds everywhere currently.
You speak for zillions of others do you?
How come?
Is it because you come from a place with zillions of people and you have asked them all?
Woke means anti racist. To be anti woke is to be in favour of racism.
As for my personal privilege, I was kicked out of the care system at 18 with nothing, not so much a silver spoon, not so much a plastic spoon or a wooden one, no spoon at all.
However my skin is white so even in my position back then I had an advantage over people of colour, who were having to deal with those who sneered at whatever woke used to be called.
The Theatre is amongst other things a laboratory of ideas. In 1958 a nineteen year old woman wrote ‘A Taste of Honey’. An astonishingly prescient work of art that developed Theatre further, but you might call it ‘woke’.
You can complain about whatever you like, but expect a counter argument.
You repeatedly rail against ‘woke’ so it is not accidental. To me that is the same thing as promoting observances of racism in our society. Look in the mirror, not at your imaginary zillions of followers you might imagine you’ve got, like Jesus is supposed to have.
For the last time, ‘woke’ means anti racist. It is as simple as that.
I implore everyone to avoid "I, Joan" at the globe. A perfect example of a woke makeover. The story of a saint "reimagined" (please may I pause and vomit for a moment?) Where it is all about gender binary and queer entertainment (their words not mine) utter garbage.
Theatre is frequently supposed to be challenging and controversial. I knew that eleven years ago when I started this humble thread. It is not unexpected. However it is supposed to be a thread directly related to Theatrical experience, most especially live events. I reckon it is fine to discuss the challenging nature of content experienced, but to introduce unsubstantiated generalisation on this thread does not suit it’s purpose. To describe and dismiss for example the work of Samuel Beckett as leftist propaganda, or part of some kind of non defined ‘woke’ agenda, would be the action of a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity.
I am very much FOR theatre that is challenging. That really is the point. It has become bland and tickbox. Nothing I have shared is unsubstantiated. I certainly didn't dismiss the entire ouevre of Samuel Beckett as propaganda.
As for woke being "non-defined". We KNOW when a piece of "art" be it a play, a film etc has had the woke makeover. You may dismiss this but certainly most people I know ~ whatever their political persuasion will concede this much.
If that makes someone "...a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity" I can only assume this is projection ~ of the most desperate and transparent kind.
It's really good to see a theatre thread among footie fans. So am really grateful to read the recommendations that others have chipped in with here. My mere concern remains however ~ if there is a play on ~ I want to see THAT play not a reinterpretation of it with progressive woke politics ~ that's all. You are free to watch and pay for this stuff if that's what you want You and your children watching. I don't. That is all. So if they could have a "woke-free" certification on the film/play etc ~ that would make life a lot easier. And I have no doubt at all, that if there was such a certification ~ those plays and films and books would sell out every time!!
So you call my comment about crass stupidity is projection, yet you (and most people you know no less) ‘know’ if a piece of art has a ‘woke makeover’. There is an example of ‘projection’ right there. You and the people you know project onto something an opinion that it has had a ‘woke’ makeover. An opinion. Seeing as how woke simply means anti racist, I assume you object to something like the actors for Hamlet and Gertrude being of a different race. Objecting to something like that is crass stupidity.
I and many others wouldn't say woke "... simply means anti-racist". That's absurd. This infers that woke is some sort of virtue. Yet antifa ~ woke par excellence ~ haven't a virtuous bone in their body. They physically attack and kill people who do not share their diabolical views. But are "woke". It's also not about other races because it is white progressive liberals doing the whole woke makeover thing.
It is precisely because woke is all pervasive, disingenuous, fake, virtue-signalling garbage that so many people, quite naturally , don't want to pay good money at the theatre to be subjected to the same marxist nonsense their local councils, govt, institutions force on them 24/7. I fully understand that some people who are pushing the wokery WANT this in every area of their lives. That's okay. They should be given that choice. I'm just asking for entertainment that is free of this. Allowing people the choice for theatre free of this that is all.
Woke means anti racist. Being anti woke is being in favour of racism. You do not have agency over the definition,
Not to me and a zillion others it doesn't. It means Cultural Elitism and pretentiousness where I come from. A case in point ~ when a rich white middle class progressive (perhaps you count yourself among their number, I don't know ?) speaks about "white privilege" he doesn't speak for a zillion white people who have had very hard lives with none of the "privilege" that Mr suburban Progressive Liberal has had. You know that. And so do I.
So let us say that White Privilege is actually class privilege. And the sole beneficiaries of this privilege are White rich people. And not white poor people. For such people to speak for working class people is a massive insult. Woke of course gives no voice at all to the white working class (that's the whole point) and in actual fact gives very little voice/ power to people of colour also. And many I have spoken to have seen through this sham. I'll happily concede there is white privilege but not until the ones with this privilege hold their hands up and say "I have this white privilege but there are millions of white people who do not have my privilege". Until that day, wokery is a sham. Pedalled not by ethnic minorities who demand equality but invented and forced on others by white cultural elites who hate the white working class poor much more than they care not a jot for people of colour.
I think I'll write a play about it....
It's got to be better than the virtue signalling cack that abounds everywhere currently.
Stop derailing this decent thread by being such a snowflake
Fascism right there. Regression to a by-gone age dressed up as cultural critique.
How pathetic. Pray we never find ourselves on the receiving end of Fascism. Not a word to bandy around lightly.
You should check yourself before warning others. You want to stay in a dark box and expect everyone to do the same. You have fascist leanings.
Quite the opposite. I want to walk in the light. Not warning you at all. You are free to choose what your children watch are taught listen to etc. I expect the same right.
I have commonsense leanings not fascist leanings. As things get sillier and sillier, the sillies just keep moving the goal posts of what they deem "fascist". Once upon a time you were called fascist ... If you were a fascist! Now a n y o n e is a fascist who simply doesn't agree with the sillies. I've remained consistent. In this chaotic world it is consistent that society needs not progressive sillies constantly moving goalposts and asserting that everyone is a fascist.
I'd be interested to return to the original thread of what theatre productions are current that are suitable for children. (Drag queens are NOT suitable for children)
I really hope you're still on this forum when your kids come out as gay and disown you as the pathetic embarrassment you will no doubt be to them.
Fascism right there. Regression to a by-gone age dressed up as cultural critique.
How pathetic. Pray we never find ourselves on the receiving end of Fascism. Not a word to bandy around lightly.
You should check yourself before warning others. You want to stay in a dark box and expect everyone to do the same. You have fascist leanings.
Quite the opposite. I want to walk in the light. Not warning you at all. You are free to choose what your children watch are taught listen to etc. I expect the same right.
I have commonsense leanings not fascist leanings. As things get sillier and sillier, the sillies just keep moving the goal posts of what they deem "fascist". Once upon a time you were called fascist ... If you were a fascist! Now a n y o n e is a fascist who simply doesn't agree with the sillies. I've remained consistent. In this chaotic world it is consistent that society needs not progressive sillies constantly moving goalposts and asserting that everyone is a fascist.
I'd be interested to return to the original thread of what theatre productions are current that are suitable for children. (Drag queens are NOT suitable for children)
I really hope you're still on this forum when your kids come out as gay and disown you as the pathetic embarrassment you will no doubt be to them.
I would love my children under any circumstances. Having a same sex attraction defines neither them or anyone else.
Bring this thread back to some semblance of normality:
we have this year seen;
To kill a mockingbird - I loved it (but I like Sorkin’s writing and the original book), my wife enjoyed it.
Curious incident of the dog in the nighttime - my daughter and wife really liked it.
six - we have seen this a couple of times now, it is a really fun show. seen a couple of excerpts and set-piece song performances and none encouraged us to go see the whole thing - is it mostly song'n'dance or is there story & acting too?
just bought tickets for the Harry Potter play (both parts) for my wife’s birthday. saw this about 3 years ago, matinée and evening same day and it was fabulous no spoilers there is actual magic too - As a day out obviously it weren't cheap but worth every penny, there was a Nicholsons pub and a very decent Chinese restaurant just round the corner too
I implore everyone to avoid "I, Joan" at the globe. A perfect example of a woke makeover. The story of a saint "reimagined" (please may I pause and vomit for a moment?) Where it is all about gender binary and queer entertainment (their words not mine) utter garbage.
What day did you go and see it?
The review on the Globe website was more than enough.
Theatre is frequently supposed to be challenging and controversial. I knew that eleven years ago when I started this humble thread. It is not unexpected. However it is supposed to be a thread directly related to Theatrical experience, most especially live events. I reckon it is fine to discuss the challenging nature of content experienced, but to introduce unsubstantiated generalisation on this thread does not suit it’s purpose. To describe and dismiss for example the work of Samuel Beckett as leftist propaganda, or part of some kind of non defined ‘woke’ agenda, would be the action of a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity.
I am very much FOR theatre that is challenging. That really is the point. It has become bland and tickbox. Nothing I have shared is unsubstantiated. I certainly didn't dismiss the entire ouevre of Samuel Beckett as propaganda.
As for woke being "non-defined". We KNOW when a piece of "art" be it a play, a film etc has had the woke makeover. You may dismiss this but certainly most people I know ~ whatever their political persuasion will concede this much.
If that makes someone "...a stupid person unprepared to think their way out of their crass stupidity" I can only assume this is projection ~ of the most desperate and transparent kind.
It's really good to see a theatre thread among footie fans. So am really grateful to read the recommendations that others have chipped in with here. My mere concern remains however ~ if there is a play on ~ I want to see THAT play not a reinterpretation of it with progressive woke politics ~ that's all. You are free to watch and pay for this stuff if that's what you want You and your children watching. I don't. That is all. So if they could have a "woke-free" certification on the film/play etc ~ that would make life a lot easier. And I have no doubt at all, that if there was such a certification ~ those plays and films and books would sell out every time!!
So you call my comment about crass stupidity is projection, yet you (and most people you know no less) ‘know’ if a piece of art has a ‘woke makeover’. There is an example of ‘projection’ right there. You and the people you know project onto something an opinion that it has had a ‘woke’ makeover. An opinion. Seeing as how woke simply means anti racist, I assume you object to something like the actors for Hamlet and Gertrude being of a different race. Objecting to something like that is crass stupidity.
I and many others wouldn't say woke "... simply means anti-racist". That's absurd. This infers that woke is some sort of virtue. Yet antifa ~ woke par excellence ~ haven't a virtuous bone in their body. They physically attack and kill people who do not share their diabolical views. But are "woke". It's also not about other races because it is white progressive liberals doing the whole woke makeover thing.
It is precisely because woke is all pervasive, disingenuous, fake, virtue-signalling garbage that so many people, quite naturally , don't want to pay good money at the theatre to be subjected to the same marxist nonsense their local councils, govt, institutions force on them 24/7. I fully understand that some people who are pushing the wokery WANT this in every area of their lives. That's okay. They should be given that choice. I'm just asking for entertainment that is free of this. Allowing people the choice for theatre free of this that is all.
Woke means anti racist. Being anti woke is being in favour of racism. You do not have agency over the definition,
Not to me and a zillion others it doesn't. It means Cultural Elitism and pretentiousness where I come from. A case in point ~ when a rich white middle class progressive (perhaps you count yourself among their number, I don't know ?) speaks about "white privilege" he doesn't speak for a zillion white people who have had very hard lives with none of the "privilege" that Mr suburban Progressive Liberal has had. You know that. And so do I.
So let us say that White Privilege is actually class privilege. And the sole beneficiaries of this privilege are White rich people. And not white poor people. For such people to speak for working class people is a massive insult. Woke of course gives no voice at all to the white working class (that's the whole point) and in actual fact gives very little voice/ power to people of colour also. And many I have spoken to have seen through this sham. I'll happily concede there is white privilege but not until the ones with this privilege hold their hands up and say "I have this white privilege but there are millions of white people who do not have my privilege". Until that day, wokery is a sham. Pedalled not by ethnic minorities who demand equality but invented and forced on others by white cultural elites who hate the white working class poor much more than they care not a jot for people of colour.
I think I'll write a play about it....
It's got to be better than the virtue signalling cack that abounds everywhere currently.
You speak for zillions of others do you?
How come?
Is it because you come from a place with zillions of people and you have asked them all?
Woke means anti racist. To be anti woke is to be in favour of racism.
As for my personal privilege, I was kicked out of the care system at 18 with nothing, not so much a silver spoon, not so much a plastic spoon or a wooden one, no spoon at all.
However my skin is white so even in my position back then I had an advantage over people of colour, who were having to deal with those who sneered at whatever woke used to be called.
The Theatre is amongst other things a laboratory of ideas. In 1958 a nineteen year old woman wrote ‘A Taste of Honey’. An astonishingly prescient work of art that developed Theatre further, but you might call it ‘woke’.
You can complain about whatever you like, but expect a counter argument.
You repeatedly rail against ‘woke’ so it is not accidental. To me that is the same thing as promoting observances of racism in our society. Look in the mirror, not at your imaginary zillions of followers you might imagine you’ve got, like Jesus is supposed to have.
For the last time, ‘woke’ means anti racist. It is as simple as that.
SP. I fully respect your understanding of woke. That is fine. My mere point is that a great many people including myself hold a different interpretation.
I am very familiar with. A Taste of Honey. It is interesting that you should point to this to underpin the interpretation of woke you hold.
Morrissey ~ wholly held up as a racist in this woke age, uses Shelagh Delaney (ATOH author) on a Smith's cover. And I may be right in saying she uses Rita Tushingham (the star of the aforesaid play) This would surely point out that even if one uses such "art" to define their woke it is actually used by someone who is deemed racist. Therefore this would suggest there are very different interpretations of this word.
Apart from a cluster of marxist-leaning supporters of my football club I have never been called racist and all the other names from the Marxist playbook. Ever!
The word racist is so meaningless now (thanks to white Marxists calling everyone one all day) which is actually worrying. Because when cruelty against other races and religions (there is definitely a hatred of Christians from a few individuals here) actually takes place justice will seldom be served.
I do hope playrights will write about this age where everyone was terrified to say what was actually in front of their eyes.
In McDonald's in Oxford St this week. Somewhere in the region of 50 black teenagers ransacked the place (you can view this on social media) Not one police officer attended the premises and not a single arrest was made subsequently. Not one legacy media reported it. Not one.
Inspired by this freedom to riot it was replicated in Nottingham days later! With the same response.
I have a problem with people breaking the law with impunity. And their enablers. I don't know where your interpretation of woke sits in all this.
Nobody is stopping you saying what you want. What makes people 'terrified' of saying what they want, especially when reporting an experience from their point of view? What would such people be afraid of? Indeed, don't be terrified to quote something Karl Marx actually wrote in order to support your point, if you're making a point at all. Your Smiths and Shelagh Delaney paragraph needs some work in order to clarify what you're trying to say in my opinion. You don't like stuff, I get it, I don't like stuff too. However if I comment on a play it is usually after actually seeing it.
SP: "In 1958 a nineteen year old woman wrote ‘A Taste of Honey’. An astonishingly prescient work of art that developed Theatre further, but you might call it ‘woke’".
How exactly can A Taste of Honey" be deemed "an astonishingly prescient work of art"??? What is your measure? Compared to a shoebox ~ perhaps yes I would agree.
And how did it develop theatre further? Did it improve on Shakespeare in any possible definable way?
It's like Radio 4 plays if you ever listened to them. Once excellent. But now ... Instead of cultivating the art of excellent drama they simple became vehicles for "issues" (zzzzz) and Radio 4 plays like everything else on the BBC became measured against ideological grounds not not artistic craft. With the possible exception of Poliakov perhaps.
A Taste of Honey might be one of what became known as ‘Kitchen Sink Drama’ that presented content that hadn’t been presented before. Unlike most of Shakespeare it dealt with the lives of poor ordinary people. The 19 year old author managed in one play to shine a light on poverty, male privilege, inter race sexual relationships, prostitution, female contraception, teenage pregnancy, abortion, homosexuality, single parenting and a ‘different’ mother daughter relationship. For a 19 year old to tackle material such as that in 1958 was remarkable. Especially as she faced up to some things that were then actually illegal, and she questioned assumptions about the social contract.
A Taste of Honey might be one of what became known as ‘Kitchen Sink Drama’ that presented content that hadn’t been presented before. Unlike most of Shakespeare it dealt with the lives of poor ordinary people. The 19 year old author managed in one play to shine a light on poverty, male privilege, inter race sexual relationships, prostitution, female contraception, teenage pregnancy, abortion, homosexuality, single parenting and a ‘different’ mother daughter relationship. For a 19 year old to tackle material such as that in 1958 was remarkable. Especially as she faced up to some things that were then actually illegal, and she questioned assumptions about the social contract.
And that sounds perfectly reasonable to do so ~ shine a light on some aspects of life that audiences may not have seen. In 1958 this would certainly have been new to audiences.
What isn't reasonable is insisting this stuff is permanently part of every artform. That is the issue a lot of people have with this current age.
Look Back In Anger was a very good piece of theatre in its day but if every play had to "include" a Jimmy Porter character, say, people would soon get annoyed with this. That's where we are at now I'm afraid.
Nobody is insisting on any of that. What people choose to include in what they create is up to them. Criticise it if you like, but you can't tell any creative artist what they can or can't choose to include.
Bring this thread back to some semblance of normality:
we have this year seen;
To kill a mockingbird - I loved it (but I like Sorkin’s writing and the original book), my wife enjoyed it.
Curious incident of the dog in the nighttime - my daughter and wife really liked it.
six - we have seen this a couple of times now, it is a really fun show. seen a couple of excerpts and set-piece song performances and none encouraged us to go see the whole thing - is it mostly song'n'dance or is there story & acting too?
just bought tickets for the Harry Potter play (both parts) for my wife’s birthday. saw this about 3 years ago, matinée and evening same day and it was fabulous no spoilers there is actual magic too - As a day out obviously it weren't cheap but worth every penny, there was a Nicholsons pub and a very decent Chinese restaurant just round the corner too
Six is singing and dancing it is short but quite fun, I guess it is reasonably historically accurate
Nobody is insisting on any of that. What people choose to include in what they create is up to them. Criticise it if you like, but you can't tell any creative artist what they can or can't choose to include.
This is my point. It is precisely the MO of the BBC et al TO insist how art is created and delivered. Full of left-wing anti-Christian woke bias. You can have your Ford car in any colour so long as it's black could read in 2022 "You can have any programme you like so long as it is woke/Marxist".
"...What people choose to include is up to them" doesn't work in 2022. Try it and enjoy being "cancelled". I've no problem with there being a channel dedicated to Marxist types. I take umbrage when that is the ONLY option across the board.
To return to the original thread of theatre ~ there was more variety back in the days of Shelagh Delaney and the kitchen sink dramas than now.
My friend pointed out this week that if Python, Blackadder, Fawlty, Dick Emery, Benny hill, Carry-on etc etc were written today ~ none of them would be commisioned.
It's the fact that the arts have silenced free thinking truly creative people who don't do the whole quotas diversity inclusion groupthink stuff that has lead us to the most soporific era in entertainment since time began. Let us champion free speech once again and see real expression that also reflects what is really going on not what we would like to be going on.
That's my last word on the subject you will be delighted to read.
The reason there is less variety in the theatre now is a bit like the cinema. There is a risk aversion. It costs so much to put on a show that producers want a sure thing so they go back to what was a sure thing in the past or go to one of the few superstar writers. There are exceptions but these tend to be small productions that have made their way up, due to their quality, from regional productions.
Nobody is insisting on any of that. What people choose to include in what they create is up to them. Criticise it if you like, but you can't tell any creative artist what they can or can't choose to include.
This is my point. It is precisely the MO of the BBC et al TO insist how art is created and delivered. Full of left-wing anti-Christian woke bias. You can have your Ford car in any colour so long as it's black could read in 2022 "You can have any programme you like so long as it is woke/Marxist".
"...What people choose to include is up to them" doesn't work in 2022. Try it and enjoy being "cancelled". I've no problem with there being a channel dedicated to Marxist types. I take umbrage when that is the ONLY option across the board.
To return to the original thread of theatre ~ there was more variety back in the days of Shelagh Delaney and the kitchen sink dramas than now.
My friend pointed out this week that if Python, Blackadder, Fawlty, Dick Emery, Benny hill, Carry-on etc etc were written today ~ none of them would be commisioned.
It's the fact that the arts have silenced free thinking truly creative people who don't do the whole quotas diversity inclusion groupthink stuff that has lead us to the most soporific era in entertainment since time began. Let us champion free speech once again and see real expression that also reflects what is really going on not what we would like to be going on.
That's my last word on the subject you will be delighted to read.
I have 2 spare front row balcony tickets to see Emilia Clarke in The Seagull @Harold Pinter theatre London tonight if anyone would like them. They cost £69.50 each but I’m only looking for £50 in total for both tickets. I can email the tickets over immediately.
Comments
Being anti woke is being in favour of racism.
You do not have agency over the definition,
Any good ‘plays’ seen recently?
So let us say that White Privilege is actually class privilege. And the sole beneficiaries of this privilege are White rich people. And not white poor people. For such people to speak for working class people is a massive insult. Woke of course gives no voice at all to the white working class (that's the whole point) and in actual fact gives very little voice/ power to people of colour also. And many I have spoken to have seen through this sham. I'll happily concede there is white privilege but not until the ones with this privilege hold their hands up and say "I have this white privilege but there are millions of white people who do not have my privilege". Until that day, wokery is a sham. Pedalled not by ethnic minorities who demand equality but invented and forced on others by white cultural elites who hate the white working class poor much more than they care not a jot for people of colour.
I think I'll write a play about it....
It's got to be better than the virtue signalling cack that abounds everywhere currently.
I implore everyone to avoid "I, Joan" at the globe. A perfect example of a woke makeover. The story of a saint "reimagined" (please may I pause and vomit for a moment?) Where it is all about gender binary and queer entertainment (their words not mine) utter garbage.
How come?
Is it because you come from a place with zillions of people and you have asked them all?
To be anti woke is to be in favour of racism.
As for my personal privilege, I was kicked out of the care system at 18 with nothing, not so much a silver spoon, not so much a plastic spoon or a wooden one, no spoon at all.
However my skin is white so even in my position back then I had an advantage over people of colour, who were having to deal with those who sneered at whatever woke used to be called.
The Theatre is amongst other things a laboratory of ideas. In 1958 a nineteen year old woman wrote ‘A Taste of Honey’. An astonishingly prescient work of art that developed Theatre further, but you might call it ‘woke’.
You can complain about whatever you like, but expect a counter argument.
You repeatedly rail against ‘woke’ so it is not accidental. To me that is the same thing as promoting observances of racism in our society. Look in the mirror, not at your imaginary zillions of followers you might imagine you’ve got, like Jesus is supposed to have.
For the last time, ‘woke’ means anti racist. It is as simple as that.
we have this year seen;
To kill a mockingbird - I loved it (but I like Sorkin’s writing and the original book), my wife enjoyed it.
six - we have seen this a couple of times now, it is a really fun show.
just bought tickets for the Harry Potter play (both parts) for my wife’s birthday.
I am very familiar with. A Taste of Honey. It is interesting that you should point to this to underpin the interpretation of woke you hold.
Morrissey ~ wholly held up as a racist in this woke age, uses Shelagh Delaney (ATOH author) on a Smith's cover. And I may be right in saying she uses Rita Tushingham (the star of the aforesaid play) This would surely point out that even if one uses such "art" to define their woke it is actually used by someone who is deemed racist. Therefore this would suggest there are very different interpretations of this word.
Apart from a cluster of marxist-leaning supporters of my football club I have never been called racist and all the other names from the Marxist playbook. Ever!
The word racist is so meaningless now (thanks to white Marxists calling everyone one all day) which is actually worrying. Because when cruelty against other races and religions (there is definitely a hatred of Christians from a few individuals here) actually takes place justice will seldom be served.
I do hope playrights will write about this age where everyone was terrified to say what was actually in front of their eyes.
In McDonald's in Oxford St this week. Somewhere in the region of 50 black teenagers ransacked the place (you can view this on social media) Not one police officer attended the premises and not a single arrest was made subsequently. Not one legacy media reported it. Not one.
Inspired by this freedom to riot it was replicated in Nottingham days later! With the same response.
I have a problem with people breaking the law with impunity. And their enablers. I don't know where your interpretation of woke sits in all this.
What makes people 'terrified' of saying what they want, especially when reporting an experience from their point of view? What would such people be afraid of?
Indeed, don't be terrified to quote something Karl Marx actually wrote in order to support your point, if you're making a point at all.
Your Smiths and Shelagh Delaney paragraph needs some work in order to clarify what you're trying to say in my opinion.
You don't like stuff, I get it, I don't like stuff too.
However if I comment on a play it is usually after actually seeing it.
How exactly can A Taste of Honey" be deemed "an astonishingly prescient work of art"??? What is your measure? Compared to a shoebox ~ perhaps yes I would agree.
And how did it develop theatre further? Did it improve on Shakespeare in any possible definable way?
It's like Radio 4 plays if you ever listened to them. Once excellent. But now ... Instead of cultivating the art of excellent drama they simple became vehicles for "issues" (zzzzz) and Radio 4 plays like everything else on the BBC became measured against ideological grounds not not artistic craft. With the possible exception of Poliakov perhaps.
Unlike most of Shakespeare it dealt with the lives of poor ordinary people.
The 19 year old author managed in one play to shine a light on poverty, male privilege, inter race sexual relationships, prostitution, female contraception, teenage pregnancy, abortion, homosexuality, single parenting and a ‘different’ mother daughter relationship.
For a 19 year old to tackle material such as that in 1958 was remarkable. Especially as she faced up to some things that were then actually illegal, and she questioned assumptions about the social contract.
What isn't reasonable is insisting this stuff is permanently part of every artform. That is the issue a lot of people have with this current age.
Look Back In Anger was a very good piece of theatre in its day but if every play had to "include" a Jimmy Porter character, say, people would soon get annoyed with this.
That's where we are at now I'm afraid.
What people choose to include in what they create is up to them.
Criticise it if you like, but you can't tell any creative artist what they can or can't choose to include.
"...What people choose to include is up to them" doesn't work in 2022. Try it and enjoy being "cancelled". I've no problem with there being a channel dedicated to Marxist types. I take umbrage when that is the ONLY option across the board.
To return to the original thread of theatre ~ there was more variety back in the days of Shelagh Delaney and the kitchen sink dramas than now.
My friend pointed out this week that if Python, Blackadder, Fawlty, Dick Emery, Benny hill, Carry-on etc etc were written today ~ none of them would be commisioned.
It's the fact that the arts have silenced free thinking truly creative people who don't do the whole quotas diversity inclusion groupthink stuff that has lead us to the most soporific era in entertainment since time began. Let us champion free speech once again and see real expression that also reflects what is really going on not what we would like to be going on.
That's my last word on the subject you will be delighted to read.