In the days when it was all about the taking and defending of ends i could see the appeal of it as a young bloke and the camaraderie, excitement and spirit of defending your patch and your area if you like was there but once it became heavily clamped down on and arranged meets and police escorts and serious criminal charges then it all became a bit sad if you ask me, particularly for those getting on a bit. Most of it these days from what i can make out is about turning up, wearinga load of chavvy gear, gettinga police escort and pretending that your up for a fight and then arguing about who was most up for it on the internet - it's quite amusing but lets face it - if they really wanted to fight, why not hire a coach each, meet up ina field (like trhe poles and hungarians have done) and have it out. No chance, too likely to get hurt. It's nonsense.
If my memory is correct we teamed up with Spuds fans at the Bullring in Birmingham they were in trouble with West Brom and we were being pursued by Brum fans, I cannot remember the year but after we met up on the train and spoke about the testimonial with Chelski at the valley the next week they said they would come down and join in.
They did and the result was running battles all around the terraces for most of the game, Chelski took a good hiding and after the Charlton fans turned on the Spuds, It may have been Brian Kinseys game in return for the Bobby Tambling game at Stamford Bridge where there was also a lot of trouble.
In the days when it was all about the taking and defending of ends i could see the appeal of it as a young bloke and the camaraderie, excitement and spirit of defending your patch and your area if you like was there but once it became heavily clamped down on and arranged meets and police escorts and serious criminal charges then it all became a bit sad if you ask me, particularly for those getting on a bit. Most of it these days from what i can make out is about turning up, wearinga load of chavvy gear, gettinga police escort and pretending that your up for a fight and then arguing about who was most up for it on the internet - it's quite amusing but lets face it - if they really wanted to fight, why not hire a coach each, meet up ina field (like trhe poles and hungarians have done) and have it out. No chance, too likely to get hurt. It's nonsense.
Me too......I was pretty much out of it by my very early 20's, I'd say around '70/71.
My first memory of trouble at Charlton games was the Arsenal FA Cup Tie at Highbury I reckon that was 1968. The fighting on the North Bank terrace basically last 90 minutes, with Charlton largely having most of the end. I was a young teen watching from the side. By 1973 Charlton had a hardcore firm of around 60, the covered end firm in total being around 300. The Spus incident on panorma involved no more than a dozen Millwall who basically set it up for the TV. However, when the incident in the covered end kicked off there were more Charlton involved than Spurs. The fact that Millwall elected to attack the end next to the East Terrace shows the nature of the thing, the real Spurs mob were to the left end of the stand which is where the Charlton firm would have been. Although not well spoken off Charlton and Millwall knew each other and on big games down the den al least 20 of the Charlton 60 would go along, and join the main Millwall firm. There was an element of South London pride, that existed. Although, on Charlton / Millwall games that was all dropped. Despite Millwalls denial of us as rivals, there were very few games in the 70's at the valley and the den which did not have trouble at them. Millwall had a lot of hangers on, and when those muppets took on the Charlton main 60, there was only one outcome. For many years in Divison 3 Charlton were well known as having a hardcore element of hooligans, that were amongst the worst in that Divison. In 5 -1 cup defeat at Man Utd where Charlton scored first the fighting, almost stopped the game as the Charlton fans were moved around the ground.
I am nor glorifying this . but it happened, its in Charltons History and should be denied. Many of those 60 are still in the ground today, and have always been there through the last 40 years, so don't knock them.
November 21, 1921, Croke Park, Dublin at a (Gaelic) football match between Dublin and Tipperary.
And the brutal hooligans were the Black & Tans who opened fire without cause or provocation on the crowd.
They fired 114 rifle rounds, an unquantified amount of revolver shots and 50 rounds from a machine gun..
14 spectators died, including two boys aged ten and eleven.
One of the most shameful days in British history.
Everything we've called hooliganism since has been handbags in comparison.
Why bring this into a discussion when it has no relevance to the subject. I'm sure if you hunt round you can probably find a number of the "most shameful days in British history" and just as many that were the "greatest days in British history".
What it has to do with the subject matter I don't know. Sounds to me like you just wanted to get a reaction. Unfortunately I bit.
November 21, 1921, Croke Park, Dublin at a (Gaelic) football match between Dublin and Tipperary.
And the brutal hooligans were the Black & Tans who opened fire without cause or provocation on the crowd.
They fired 114 rifle rounds, an unquantified amount of revolver shots and 50 rounds from a machine gun..
14 spectators died, including two boys aged ten and eleven.
One of the most shameful days in British history.
Everything we've called hooliganism since has been handbags in comparison.
Why bring this into a discussion when it has no relevance to the subject. I'm sure if you hunt round you can probably find a number of the "most shameful days in British history" and just as many that were the "greatest days in British history".
What it has to do with the subject matter I don't know. Sounds to me like you just wanted to get a reaction. Unfortunately I bit.
Er, violence at football? And people say the Irish are thick!!
I don't know if your Irish or not but you're obviously thick.
I don't see how the army shooting at the crowd would come under the banner of hooliganism.
You can give it any title you like but if you want to discuss British involvement in Ireland then maybe you should start a seperate thread and leave this discussion, which I and many others have found interesting, to what it should be about.
I reckon that Panorama documentary was a great propaganda tool for the Spanners.
Certainly created an aura that they have been trying to live up to ever since.
They were a scary bunch though
I remember a game against Sunderland in the 70's when a loud cry of "Millwall, Millwall" emanated from behind the Covered End stand, resulting in a speedy exodus of our fans from that part of the covered end; whereupon about a dozen spanners appeared from the staircase to a virtually empty stand.
Much to the amusement of the Mackems and the rest of the ground.
My memory was we were a bit of a laughing stock mobwise, but if people say we had a hardcore who am I to argue.
As far as I'm concerned football hooliganism as we know it started in the 70's.
Millsmall dined out off this inacurate story for several years.
The truth of the matter was that a small group of them infiltrated the Covered End......there were some Spuds in there......but nothing like the 2,000 they claim of course as most of the away fans were on the South Terrace.There was total confusion because us Addicks didn't know who was who and just what was going off.Had they have know Millsmall were in there I have no doubt what-so-ever that Covered End lads would have got involved....instead Millsmall doctored the evidence, basked in the glory and took great pleasure in the inacuracy of the folklore they had spun.
There was no aggro between The Spuds and us at all.
Sound you obviously weren't there or your memory is failing, the covered end was packed with tottenham. The east terrace was pretty hairy too with gangs of theirs wandering around looking for easy pickings. They were fond of picking on lone Charlton. The 12/15 who went into the covered end were Charlton & 2 millwall who happened to be with some of their Charlton mates, why millwall was shouted is anybodies guess, I can't remember. There were people who still attend to this day who were there & know the truth. As has been mentioned elsewhere Spurs came down for Brian Kinseys testimonial against chelski & for a while we would join up whenever we met at stations etc but that day there was no friendliness at all & I don't think there has been since.
Anyone remember the Chelsea game when they were setting the fires ?
Seen on another site, A Chelsea fan reckons they were kicking off with a small number of us and West Ham's Mile End mob but Milllwall turned up outside and thats why Chelsea smashed the place up trying to get out. Couldn't see it myself but way before my time.
Comments
In the days when it was all about the taking and defending of ends i could see the appeal of it as a young bloke and the camaraderie, excitement and spirit of defending your patch and your area if you like was there but once it became heavily clamped down on and arranged meets and police escorts and serious criminal charges then it all became a bit sad if you ask me, particularly for those getting on a bit. Most of it these days from what i can make out is about turning up, wearinga load of chavvy gear, gettinga police escort and pretending that your up for a fight and then arguing about who was most up for it on the internet - it's quite amusing but lets face it - if they really wanted to fight, why not hire a coach each, meet up ina field (like trhe poles and hungarians have done) and have it out. No chance, too likely to get hurt. It's nonsense.
My first memory of trouble at Charlton games was the Arsenal FA Cup Tie at Highbury I reckon that was 1968. The fighting on the North Bank terrace basically last 90 minutes, with Charlton largely having most of the end. I was a young teen watching from the side. By 1973 Charlton had a hardcore firm of around 60, the covered end firm in total being around 300. The Spus incident on panorma involved no more than a dozen Millwall who basically set it up for the TV. However, when the incident in the covered end kicked off there were more Charlton involved than Spurs. The fact that Millwall elected to attack the end next to the East Terrace shows the nature of the thing, the real Spurs mob were to the left end of the stand which is where the Charlton firm would have been. Although not well spoken off Charlton and Millwall knew each other and on big games down the den al least 20 of the Charlton 60 would go along, and join the main Millwall firm. There was an element of South London pride, that existed. Although, on Charlton / Millwall games that was all dropped. Despite Millwalls denial of us as rivals, there were very few games in the 70's at the valley and the den which did not have trouble at them. Millwall had a lot of hangers on, and when those muppets took on the Charlton main 60, there was only one outcome. For many years in Divison 3 Charlton were well known as having a hardcore element of hooligans, that were amongst the worst in that Divison. In 5 -1 cup defeat at Man Utd where Charlton scored first the fighting, almost stopped the game as the Charlton fans were moved around the ground.
I am nor glorifying this . but it happened, its in Charltons History and should be denied. Many of those 60 are still in the ground today, and have always been there through the last 40 years, so don't knock them.
And the brutal hooligans were the Black & Tans who opened fire without cause or provocation on the crowd.
They fired 114 rifle rounds, an unquantified amount of revolver shots and 50 rounds from a machine gun..
14 spectators died, including two boys aged ten and eleven.
One of the most shameful days in British history.
Everything we've called hooliganism since has been handbags in comparison.
Why bring this into a discussion when it has no relevance to the subject. I'm sure if you hunt round you can probably find a number of the "most shameful days in British history" and just as many that were the "greatest days in British history".
What it has to do with the subject matter I don't know. Sounds to me like you just wanted to get a reaction. Unfortunately I bit.
Who won?
Dublin or Tipperary?
Thank you Henry.
PS Dublin by five points
the cairo gang didnt
I don't know if your Irish or not but you're obviously thick.
I don't see how the army shooting at the crowd would come under the banner of hooliganism.
You can give it any title you like but if you want to discuss British involvement in Ireland then maybe you should start a seperate thread and leave this discussion, which I and many others have found interesting, to what it should be about.
Kicked off big time at Hiroshima in '45.
You don't mess with the USAF.
Anyone remember the Chelsea game when they were setting the fires ?
Seen on another site, A Chelsea fan reckons they were kicking off with a small number of us and West Ham's Mile End mob but Milllwall turned up outside and thats why Chelsea smashed the place up trying to get out. Couldn't see it myself but way before my time.
Police will be all over this board then.