Apologies Curb-it, I didn't want to lower the tone with ladies present. And its in the bible so it can't be rude : - )
And cheers Prague, far too much face to face time with the man in question but as I see it not such a terrible manager. Just not a very nice person IMHO .
Although I don't like the bloke I like like the fact he is doing a good job after all the criticism he got when he was appointed and all the stick the board gets. Was reading something earlier about Newcastle breaking even this year. Maybe Mike Ashley isn't doing such a bad job afterall and maybe it should be a lesson to impatient supporters.
I always felt that as bad as things had got at charlton with Pardew, that had we kept him we would NOT have got relegated from the Championship that year.
I think he struggled when Andy Reid got sold, but would have figured it all out in time to haul us clear. That's not to say that he was the right man long term of course.
The consistent theme for me in the Charlton demise was that neither Dowie nor Pardew recruited their own coaching staff right at the start. At each stage there was always an element of the old regime still around.....of course until the new owners came in and sacked the whole coaching staff. We now have a winning team (it would appear).
1. Curbs building a team of older players that had passed their peak by the time he left (hughes, holland, m.bent, HH, Elk) and not having any upcoming youngsters to come in.
2. The board not preparing properly for Curbs departure, no real successor.
3. Appointing a backroom staff before Head Coach appointed/Trying a European coaching system. Also signing players on Curbs recommendation after he had left.
4. Appointing Mr. Dowie in suspicious circumstances (Moving north). Followed by the 'Writ' from Jordan at the unveiling press conference.
5. Leaving it very very late to build a team for the new season.
6. 4m spent on two average african players.
7. Sacking Dowie in November and stating that Les Reed was now in permanent charge on a 3 year deal.
8. The awful 7 game spell of Les Reed (love the bloke though)
9. Murray's comments on Diawara, not needed at that time.
10. The handball in Pardew's first game in charge.
11. Operation Ewood. That squad had already proved that they could not perform in front of a lot of CAFC fans. 3,000 odd at Blackburn was not what they were used to away from home and the expectation level casued them to freeze. Thatcher couldn't wait to get off the pitch!
We had just under 6,000 at Ewood for the record Chirpy. This has been done to death, but for what it's worth, Curbs left the club in fine fettle with money in the bank - an ugly idiot then squandered it like a shopaholic with a new credit card on, with the exception of Andy Reid, players who Curbs would have turned his nose up at if they were available on free transfers.
In fairness to Pardew, he did a pretty good job of trying to keep us in the Premier League, it was only in the Championship when it became apparent that he was in fact addicted to self-molestation.
Parkinson probably one of the nicest men in football by all accounts on here, managing Bradford in the relegation zone in the 4th division. Pardew not the nicest by all accounts on here but managing a team 4th in the premiership with a minescule budget compared to the 3 teams above him.
Parkinson probably one of the nicest men in football by all accounts on here, managing Bradford in the 4th division. Pardew not the nicest by all accounts on here but managing a team 4th in the premiership with a minescule budget compared to the 3 teams above him.
The problem for Pardew at Newcastle is very simple, the big fish are already looking at those two very decent midfield players he found, Cabaye and Tiote, and bids will come in for them in January.
Ashley has already made it clear that he wants his dough back and he is still a long way short of getting it back (even after selling Carroll) so he will approve any decent bids that come in.
I think Newcastle are in a very false position to be honest, they have had a lot of things go their way and should have lost to Spurs and were very lucky to win at Wolves, they are just having one of those lucky runs that teams have from time to time.
If you look at their squad it is pretty thin and although I am not saying they will go down - there are certainly three worse teams than them - I cannot see them ending in the top half.
As for the question on Pardew, he did a terrible job at Charlton, just as bad as Dowie if not worse, he brought in a succession of ill suited players and his purchasing post-relegation in the summer of 2007 was absolutely shocking.
Varney - Disaster
Iwelumo - OK
McCarthy - Disaster
Mouataokil - Disaster
Sinclair - Disaster
Weaver - OK
Semedo - OK
Racon - Disaster (in CCC)
Todorov - Unproven
Having said that he did OK at Saints - much of their present team are his players - and has done nothing wrong at St James Park, so he obviously has some ability despite the fact that many people of fine judgement consider him to be a tosser.
And cheers Prague, far too much face to face time with the man in question but as I see it not such a terrible manager. Just not a very nice person IMHO .
This is my understanding from other sources close to the club. I've heard it said that he joined us when he was burned out after West Ham, which I think has some legs on it. If true, he was never going to succeed.
But as a bloke - well, I've yet to meet anyone with a good word to say about him. Robbie Elliot aside, of course.
The problem for Pardew at Newcastle is very simple, the big fish are already looking at those two very decent midfield players he found, Cabaye and Tiote, and bids will come in for them in January.
He didn't sign Tiote, lets not give him more praise than is necessary
We had just under 6,000 at Ewood for the record Chirpy. This has been done to death, but for what it's worth, Curbs left the club in fine fettle with money in the bank - an ugly idiot then squandered it like a shopaholic with a new credit card on, with the exception of Andy Reid, players who Curbs would have turned his nose up at if they were available on free transfers.
In fairness to Pardew, he did a pretty good job of trying to keep us in the Premier League, it was only in the Championship when it became apparent that he was in fact addicted to self-molestation.
He did a terrible job at Charlton, not least spending all our 'last throw of the dice' transfer budget on (Bougherra) a centre half who never even played in the subsequent relegation battle. He then frittered millions away on players who didn't work out and had no re sale value. Bizarrely enough he seems to have done a decent job everywhere else. With regards to his character, i've never met him and although he seems a little bit 'Palace' in a plasticy sort of way i can't quite put my finger on, he doesn't come across that badly.
Didn't sign Tiote and I doubt he had much to do with getting Cabaye. Quoted as saying the first time he saw him last season he knew he'd be good enough for the prem, well Cabaye played for one of the best French teams Lille from young. No doubt Newcastle's scouting network that Ashley wanted is the team that found the player, and Ashley's front office did the deal. Pardew's got the team playing solidly, but everybody's forgot how abysmal and uninventive they were for the first 3-4 matches. Maybe they'll continue to improve against the better teams, we shall see, as the second tier of the prem is de-leveraging maybe they'll do well.
lol ... if he had walked in at charlton in the same position newcastle were in and had achieved what he has there with us we'd all be hailing him as the messiah
doing a very good job at newcastle atm and was chuff with us
@BexleyDan The "last throw of the dice" transfer budget was considerably smaller than it should have been because Dowie had already squandered it on the likes of Traore (paid £2m, got £1m back 6 months later) and Faye (paid £2m, got nothing back), Pouso(played for 10 minutes), Sorondo (1 appearance) and Jimmy Fat Hasselbaink (£30k a week).
Whilst I find it strange to be sticking up for Pardew, considering I can't stand the bloke, the facts are that he inherited a shambles that was already as good as down (14 points from 19 games) and very nearly kept us up (22 points from 19 games. That points ratio accross the whole of the season would comfortably have kept us up. There was certainly nobody calling for his head when we got relegated and the majority seemed pretty optimistic about the new season and pretty happy that he was manager. As I said in my previous post, it was only when we were in the Championship that his multitude of faults became apparent.
@BexleyDan The "last throw of the dice" transfer budget was considerably smaller than it should have been because Dowie had already squandered it on the likes of Traore (paid £2m, got £1m back 6 months later) and Faye (paid £2m, got nothing back), Pouso(played for 10 minutes), Sorondo (1 appearance) and Jimmy Fat Hasselbaink (£30k a week).
Whilst I find it strange to be sticking up for Pardew, considering I can't stand the bloke, the facts are that he inherited a shambles that was already as good as down (14 points from 19 games) and very nearly kept us up (22 points from 19 games. That points ratio accross the whole of the season would comfortably have kept us up. There was certainly nobody calling for his head when we got relegated and the majority seemed pretty optimistic about the new season and pretty happy that he was manager. As I said in my previous post, it was only when we were in the Championship that his multitude of faults became apparent.
Agreed he inherited a Dowie created shambles but whatever way you look at it, spending our whole budget (£2.5 million) on a player who didn't play, was not helpful to our efforts to stay up.
Surprised by some of the rewriting of history claiming Pardew may not have been quite such a rotten Charlton manager after all.
As Ormiston set out quite forensically a few posts back, he was truly terrible for us - and the longer it went on , the more comprehensively he lost the plot. His signings were scatter gun and the way he seemed to bring in another loanee after every defeat towards the end was the act of a desperate man.
You only had to listen to his press conferences in the weeks leading up to his dismissal to realise how badly he had lost it. By the end he was spouting absolute gibberish..
But none of that makes him a bad manager per se. All it means is that in a particular set of circumstances, he lost the ability to think straight and to develop a coherent approach. and by the end he was so overwhelmed by events (mostly of his own making, admittedly) that he didn't know what the hell he was doing.
In other circs, it is perfectly possible that he can relocate the plot and be a very decent mananger.But that is no consolation to us, unfortunately.
For what it is worth, I watched the Newcastle game at the weekend on TV and thought they played some thrilling football. So it seems he has found the plot again. But let's not pretend he didn't lose it spectacularly when he was at Charlton!
The style of play under Pardew was pants in the Championship. And the fighting spirit was sadly lacking. Even if he didn't have the squad he'd have wanted, a top manager would get the best out of what's available and that is why I predict that he will have been sacked by the Geordies before 2012 is out.
Having said that perhaps he has learned from past experiences. As Curbs would say "we'll see".
I think the board and circumstances must take some of the blame for Pardew. We were in desperate position when he came both on and off the field and we all fans and board alike were desperate for him to sign and he wrote his own contract which meant he had minimal control from the board and was able to do as he liked. he has subsequently said that managers role is to make the board spend money they don't have and he did that in bundles. At Southampton and Newcastle I think he has had more constraints and controls and that has led to him being a better manager
Evidently intelligent, but this doesnt make you a good manager nor a decent bloke. Inflated ego, not as good as he thinks he is. Mind you, Alex Ferguson is not as good as Pardew thinks Pardew is. References to the 4-0 against West Ham are invalid - it was Curbs's old team beating Pardew's old team. After that, he put all Charlton's money on red and it came up black. To my mind, the biggest error was not letting Curbs see out his contract in the year before Prem money went stratospheric, with a good number two brought in ready to succeed him during the season. Mind you, who's to say it wouldn’t have been Pardew? He may yet turn out to be a good manager rather than a lucky one, but he wasn't Charlton in the true sense of the word, in the way that Curbs, SCP and perhaps even Parkinson were/are. CAFC isnt a place for massive egos, which is one of the things that I think makes us special. When we've had that kind, it hasn’t generally worked out. Even PDC was a true team player and proper professional.
Still hope he fails at the barcodes. Ashley is a c0ck too.
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And cheers Prague, far too much face to face time with the man in question but as I see it not such a terrible manager. Just not a very nice person IMHO .
that ,mr largo, is as accurate a description of myself as i've ever read!
I always felt that as bad as things had got at charlton with Pardew, that had we kept him we would NOT have got relegated from the Championship that year.
I think he struggled when Andy Reid got sold, but would have figured it all out in time to haul us clear. That's not to say that he was the right man long term of course.
The consistent theme for me in the Charlton demise was that neither Dowie nor Pardew recruited their own coaching staff right at the start. At each stage there was always an element of the old regime still around.....of course until the new owners came in and sacked the whole coaching staff. We now have a winning team (it would appear).
We had just under 6,000 at Ewood for the record Chirpy. This has been done to death, but for what it's worth, Curbs left the club in fine fettle with money in the bank - an ugly idiot then squandered it like a shopaholic with a new credit card on, with the exception of Andy Reid, players who Curbs would have turned his nose up at if they were available on free transfers.
In fairness to Pardew, he did a pretty good job of trying to keep us in the Premier League, it was only in the Championship when it became apparent that he was in fact addicted to self-molestation.
Parkinson probably one of the nicest men in football by all accounts on here, managing Bradford in the relegation zone in the 4th division. Pardew not the nicest by all accounts on here but managing a team 4th in the premiership with a minescule budget compared to the 3 teams above him.
Funny old game.
The problem for Pardew at Newcastle is very simple, the big fish are already looking at those two very decent midfield players he found, Cabaye and Tiote, and bids will come in for them in January.
Ashley has already made it clear that he wants his dough back and he is still a long way short of getting it back (even after selling Carroll) so he will approve any decent bids that come in.
I think Newcastle are in a very false position to be honest, they have had a lot of things go their way and should have lost to Spurs and were very lucky to win at Wolves, they are just having one of those lucky runs that teams have from time to time.
If you look at their squad it is pretty thin and although I am not saying they will go down - there are certainly three worse teams than them - I cannot see them ending in the top half.
As for the question on Pardew, he did a terrible job at Charlton, just as bad as Dowie if not worse, he brought in a succession of ill suited players and his purchasing post-relegation in the summer of 2007 was absolutely shocking.
Varney - Disaster
Iwelumo - OK
McCarthy - Disaster
Mouataokil - Disaster
Sinclair - Disaster
Weaver - OK
Semedo - OK
Racon - Disaster (in CCC)
Todorov - Unproven
Having said that he did OK at Saints - much of their present team are his players - and has done nothing wrong at St James Park, so he obviously has some ability despite the fact that many people of fine judgement consider him to be a tosser.
This is my understanding from other sources close to the club. I've heard it said that he joined us when he was burned out after West Ham, which I think has some legs on it. If true, he was never going to succeed.
But as a bloke - well, I've yet to meet anyone with a good word to say about him. Robbie Elliot aside, of course.
lol ... if he had walked in at charlton in the same position newcastle were in and had achieved what he has there with us we'd all be hailing him as the messiah
doing a very good job at newcastle atm and was chuff with us
The "last throw of the dice" transfer budget was considerably smaller than it should have been because Dowie had already squandered it on the likes of Traore (paid £2m, got £1m back 6 months later) and Faye (paid £2m, got nothing back), Pouso(played for 10 minutes), Sorondo (1 appearance) and Jimmy Fat Hasselbaink (£30k a week).
Whilst I find it strange to be sticking up for Pardew, considering I can't stand the bloke, the facts are that he inherited a shambles that was already as good as down (14 points from 19 games) and very nearly kept us up (22 points from 19 games. That points ratio accross the whole of the season would comfortably have kept us up. There was certainly nobody calling for his head when we got relegated and the majority seemed pretty optimistic about the new season and pretty happy that he was manager. As I said in my previous post, it was only when we were in the Championship that his multitude of faults became apparent.
As Ormiston set out quite forensically a few posts back, he was truly terrible for us - and the longer it went on , the more comprehensively he lost the plot. His signings were scatter gun and the way he seemed to bring in another loanee after every defeat towards the end was the act of a desperate man.
You only had to listen to his press conferences in the weeks leading up to his dismissal to realise how badly he had lost it. By the end he was spouting absolute gibberish..
But none of that makes him a bad manager per se. All it means is that in a particular set of circumstances, he lost the ability to think straight and to develop a coherent approach. and by the end he was so overwhelmed by events (mostly of his own making, admittedly) that he didn't know what the hell he was doing.
In other circs, it is perfectly possible that he can relocate the plot and be a very decent mananger.But that is no consolation to us, unfortunately.
For what it is worth, I watched the Newcastle game at the weekend on TV and thought they played some thrilling football. So it seems he has found the plot again. But let's not pretend he didn't lose it spectacularly when he was at Charlton!
Having said that perhaps he has learned from past experiences. As Curbs would say "we'll see".
References to the 4-0 against West Ham are invalid - it was Curbs's old team beating Pardew's old team. After that, he put all Charlton's money on red and it came up black.
To my mind, the biggest error was not letting Curbs see out his contract in the year before Prem money went stratospheric, with a good number two brought in ready to succeed him during the season. Mind you, who's to say it wouldn’t have been Pardew? He may yet turn out to be a good manager rather than a lucky one, but he wasn't Charlton in the true sense of the word, in the way that Curbs, SCP and perhaps even Parkinson were/are. CAFC isnt a place for massive egos, which is one of the things that I think makes us special. When we've had that kind, it hasn’t generally worked out. Even PDC was a true team player and proper professional.
Still hope he fails at the barcodes. Ashley is a c0ck too.