Agree with Stig's point about Seth. Fair play to you and in all honesty i wish i shared your faith in humanity. I suspect though that if Seth saw some of the inteligence/incident reports, crimimal records of those involved and met some of their victims as I do he would struggle to remain as open minded.
I absolutely defend his right to uphold his point of view though and very sorry to see some very un-Charlton Life behaviour on this thread.
You had an activist shouting at a bailiff to get a proper job. Ironic.
Just one local resident's point of view. As they were at the end of his garden, he was a man who had clearly had enough and was a bit mental getting out his shotguns and taken away by police.
People moaning about police brutality but the presence of I assume well known activists must have led to this stance.
You had an activist shouting at a bailiff to get a proper job. Ironic.
Just one local resident's point of view. As they were at the end of his garden, he was a man who had clearly had enough and was a bit mental getting out his shotguns and taken away by police.
People moaning about police brutality but the presence of I assume well known activists must have led to this stance.
Exactly, if well known football hooligans were present at a match you'd expect an equally heavy handed response.
I don't think this is about the residents but respect for green belt land. Take travellers out of the equation, If any of us had built on that land we would be facing the same. When you put travellers back into the equation, you see that because they don't respect the law they are the only people who would have done something like this. If the authorities let Dale Farm stand -and it would have been tempting to avoid all the hassle- a precedent would have been set which might encourage us all to consdier buying green belt land cheaply then building on it stating Dale Farm as a case law example.
I watched the programme last night and my observations are these. 1. Where were all the menfolk hiding 2. Most of the travellers featured were obviously being encouraged by the BBC producer to play up to the cameras e.g. turn on the tears, shout, scream etc. 3. Do these people pay tax, national insurance, and if not, why not. 4. Are some of the rather nice motor cars seen in the programme taxed and insured. 5. Where, on the day of reckoning, was that doyen of leftie lovies Vanessa Redgrave. Nowhere to be seen. Surprise, surprise.
All in all a rather predictable effort. Unlike the hard hitting, unbiased current affairs programmes that I remember so fondly in the 1960's and 70's.
I watched a bit of the programme last night, about the last 25 minutes (not sure if it was 30 mins or 1 hour programme) but found it quite hard to watch as I feel sorry for the people losing their homes, but I also felt angry that they were blaming other people for them being moved on - police/bailiffs etc when the fact is they shouldn't have stayed in that location as it was illegal. I thought the fact that the police destroyed the wall that was legal was trying to put a bit of balance in the programme and it did look like an aggressive way of dealing with the issue, but ultimately, i was more annoyed by the activists who just felt like joining in on a little rally, same as the ones by st pauls cathedral - complaining about something but disrupting something else that has nothing to do with it. I don't believe that all travellers are scum and after reading back over this thread I am more in Seth Plum's camp of questioning the way the whole thing has been reported and how the blinkeredness of some people on this site is pretty shocking. there are a lot of black and white opinions here and life just isn't like that.
Having recently visited the Yad Vashem holocaust memorial in Israel, my mind was very much focussed on the need to always oppose those who try to de-humanise people. Seth Plum tried to do this and he is, for me, a great example of a true humanitarian. There has been acres of hostile coverage, and some on this site have joined in with the hate filled and de-humanising cries of 'scum' etc. This one programme merely asked us to see the human beings that existed beyond the hatred and to witness its effects upon children etc. It was quite interesting that when the Council itself broke the law many years back, no-one objected, so the current hypocsisy of sheltering behind legal points did not for me mask the real anti- gypsy hatred that exists. If this programme succeeded in painting in some of the areas of grey, then the BBC is to be congratulated.
The fact that not a single comment was made by a male 'traveller' to camera, indicated to me that the anonimity of Dale Farm suits their purposes.
If just one of them came forward and said - here I am, I've been living here for ten years, I contribute to society as a whole by paying my dues and the local community by fully intigrating into local life; then I would have some sympathy. 450 illegally encamped - and not 1 of them could do that!
It was all about 'they hate us' and not 'we hate them'. They have nothing but utter disregard and contempt for their neighbours and the nicknames they give to the locals are just as rascist as the terms they are known as by the locals.
The main problem is they want it all their own way - and their procrastination by using the legal system to defend the fact they've ignored the legal system sums it up for me.
These are the same people who are able to apply for (and get) planning permission in their own town back in Limerick - so the illeteracy arguement is just hogwash.
as for yet again more "0ooooooooooooooooooo the poor pikeys" "lets all stand against hatred" bollooooooooooooooooooxxxxxxxx you get robbed every f**king day for months on end , kicked the shit a few time by the "poor pikeys" and see then come out with your moral bollox.
They would have known what they were doing was against our laws but they were very naive thinking they would be allowed to keep houses on green belt land. That land is the equivalent of sacred ground and nobody is going to allow such a precedent to occur. If they had done it somewhere else, they might have got away with it. Absolutely nothing to do with them being Gypsys.
Comments
If you're going to constantly call other people out on their use of English, the least you could do is proof read your own posts.
I absolutely defend his right to uphold his point of view though and very sorry to see some very un-Charlton Life behaviour on this thread.
They won a goldfish, a cuddly toy and an inflatable hammer.
Just one local resident's point of view. As they were at the end of his garden, he was a man who had clearly had enough and was a bit mental getting out his shotguns and taken away by police.
People moaning about police brutality but the presence of I assume well known activists must have led to this stance.
1. Where were all the menfolk hiding
2. Most of the travellers featured were obviously being encouraged by the BBC producer to play up to the cameras e.g. turn on the tears, shout, scream etc.
3. Do these people pay tax, national insurance, and if not, why not.
4. Are some of the rather nice motor cars seen in the programme taxed and insured.
5. Where, on the day of reckoning, was that doyen of leftie lovies Vanessa Redgrave. Nowhere to be seen. Surprise, surprise.
All in all a rather predictable effort. Unlike the hard hitting, unbiased current affairs programmes that I remember so fondly in the 1960's and 70's.
I watched a bit of the programme last night, about the last 25 minutes (not sure if it was 30 mins or 1 hour programme) but found it quite hard to watch as I feel sorry for the people losing their homes, but I also felt angry that they were blaming other people for them being moved on - police/bailiffs etc when the fact is they shouldn't have stayed in that location as it was illegal. I thought the fact that the police destroyed the wall that was legal was trying to put a bit of balance in the programme and it did look like an aggressive way of dealing with the issue, but ultimately, i was more annoyed by the activists who just felt like joining in on a little rally, same as the ones by st pauls cathedral - complaining about something but disrupting something else that has nothing to do with it. I don't believe that all travellers are scum and after reading back over this thread I am more in Seth Plum's camp of questioning the way the whole thing has been reported and how the blinkeredness of some people on this site is pretty shocking. there are a lot of black and white opinions here and life just isn't like that.
The fact that not a single comment was made by a male 'traveller' to camera, indicated to me that the anonimity of Dale Farm suits their purposes.
If just one of them came forward and said - here I am, I've been living here for ten years, I contribute to society as a whole by paying my dues and the local community by fully intigrating into local life; then I would have some sympathy. 450 illegally encamped - and not 1 of them could do that!
It was all about 'they hate us' and not 'we hate them'. They have nothing but utter disregard and contempt for their neighbours and the nicknames they give to the locals are just as rascist as the terms they are known as by the locals.
The main problem is they want it all their own way - and their procrastination by using the legal system to defend the fact they've ignored the legal system sums it up for me.
These are the same people who are able to apply for (and get) planning permission in their own town back in Limerick - so the illeteracy arguement is just hogwash.