The football isn't going to pretty from an England perspective, whether we go out in the group stage or even further down the line. What is certain though is that by making sure we're compact and hard to break down, we give ourselves a far higher chance of being successful than if we were to go out all guns blazing. That's one way of guaranteeing the plan home on the 20th June.
We simply don't have the talent available to play the likes of Spain, Germany and even France at their own game.
I feel Hodgson is looking at youth, Henderson and Kelly are both very young and IMO he made the right choice! Ferdinand is past it, Richards should never have refused to go on the standby list, same with Carrick.
I think you're right. Hodgson has said he's more interested in the next World Cup so it makes sense to focus more on the young 'uns.
I feel Hodgson is looking at youth, Henderson and Kelly are both very young and IMO he made the right choice! Ferdinand is past it, Richards should never have refused to go on the standby list, same with Carrick.
I think you're right. Hodgson has said he's more interested in the next World Cup so it makes sense to focus more on the young 'uns.
Even the next World cup is too soon IMHO. Getting the young players in now for experience the the right way forward. We weren't going to win Euro12 anyway so forget the short term and start planning for 4 and 6 years time.
Still not sure why Rio wasn't picked but would have been happy to see neither him or Terry in the squad.
Most of these youngsters have only got in through injury / experienced players making themselves unavailable. I agree with a long term plan I just don't think Hodgson has one yet.
I feel Hodgson is looking at youth, Henderson and Kelly are both very young and IMO he made the right choice! Ferdinand is past it, Richards should never have refused to go on the standby list, same with Carrick.
I think you're right. Hodgson has said he's more interested in the next World Cup so it makes sense to focus more on the young 'uns.
Even the next World cup is too soon IMHO. Getting the young players in now for experience the the right way forward. We weren't going to win Euro12 anyway so forget the short term and start planning for 4 and 6 years time.
Still not sure why Rio wasn't picked but would have been happy to see neither him or Terry in the squad.
By your way of thinking then whats the point in teams entering this competition who arent going to win it? Like Greece did? Same way of thinking about Chelsea in the champions league? The favourites dont always win so why cant we? Too much negativity we just need to give it a go and not put the team down as much as you lot are on here, jeeez just get behind them
Posted access to a zip file with a Euro 2012 spreadsheet, here is the actual spreadsheet without zip file. Never loaded an excel file here so not sure if it woill retain its formulas. One thing to note is that times are GMT not BST
I feel Hodgson is looking at youth, Henderson and Kelly are both very young and IMO he made the right choice! Ferdinand is past it, Richards should never have refused to go on the standby list, same with Carrick.
I think you're right. Hodgson has said he's more interested in the next World Cup so it makes sense to focus more on the young 'uns.
Even the next World cup is too soon IMHO. Getting the young players in now for experience the the right way forward. We weren't going to win Euro12 anyway so forget the short term and start planning for 4 and 6 years time.
Still not sure why Rio wasn't picked but would have been happy to see neither him or Terry in the squad.
By your way of thinking then whats the point in teams entering this competition who arent going to win it? Like Greece did? Same way of thinking about Chelsea in the champions league? The favourites dont always win so why cant we? Too much negativity we just need to give it a go and not put the team down as much as you lot are on here, jeeez just get behind them
Or we could keep on "getting behind the team" and then turn on them when they don't win the whole thing. Pretty much as we've done since 66 and to what benefit?
The point is that we don't win these tournaments because we aren't as good as the media tell us, we are tactically poor and our players can't cope with playing in tournaments. So rather than picking a lot of over the hill players better to blood some youngsters and prepare the team for 4 or 6 years time. Maybe then we could do something. Spain only started winning when they dropped the undropable Raul.
Yes, we could do a Greece and I hope we do but it is unlikely so better to use the opportunity to prepare for the future. Shame is that the "future" for England is always the next 90 minutes so nothing changes and nothing improves.
i cant see the point of qualifying for 2 years to get here and then saying its pointless even giving it a go. What happened when we had the golden generation and we won nothing. You dont know what you might find from this group of players, saying not to bother and lets focus in 6 years time is simply ludacris.
I am hoping with reduced expectations that we have a go and also give valuable tournament experience to younger players who will be able to put it to good use in the future. Giving expereince of tournaments to our best youth is vital, not just at senior level but also U21 and below. We should move the clubs away from the situation whereby young players are held back, there would be no better experience for the Wilshires of this world to know what it is like to do well at a tournament and possibly even win it. Invaluable experience for both club and country.
i cant see the point of qualifying for 2 years to get here and then saying its pointless even giving it a go. What happened when we had the golden generation and we won nothing. You dont know what you might find from this group of players, saying not to bother and lets focus in 6 years time is simply ludacris.
Not saying don't give it a go but you've made my point for me. We had the so called golden generation and won nothing and never even got close. Why? Because those players weren't as good as the media told us, they were tactically poor and couldnt last through a tournament without getting "bored".
So we can doing what we've always done and so carry on getting what we've always got ie quarter final defeat or we try something different like preparing players over years not weeks, having a tactical plan that suit us and picking players based on that plan not on which sky 4 club they play for.
Just as long as we demand success NOW and give no time to preparing for the years ahead we'll never improve as a football nation.
I am hoping with reduced expectations that we have a go and also give valuable tournament experience to younger players who will be able to put it to good use in the future. Giving expereince of tournaments to our best youth is vital, not just at senior level but also U21 and below. We should move the clubs away from the situation whereby young players are held back, there would be no better experience for the Wilshires of this world to know what it is like to do well at a tournament and possibly even win it. Invaluable experience for both club and country.
its not going to happen, so your saying expose the youth to national disapointment straight away getting to expereience going out at the group stage and all the media coverage that comes with that? Trying out the youth is for friendlies and qualifiers this is where we try our hardest and put out a fully stengthed squad, its not some pointless competition its the euros, the whole nation will be watching and by putting out youth players you will only expose them in a negative way
Again, that is the problem. Any defeat is a negative because it is all about now and never about the long term future. So there is no long term planning, we play the oldies until they retire then complain that the young players aren't ready and can't compare to the German, Dutch youngsters.
But germany and holland give their young players game time early on and in major games. They also realise the importance of tournament play rather than just giving a kid 30 minutes in a friendly.
But lets go on doing what we always do and go on getting bad results.
so you think throwing the youngsters in the deep end and expecting them to cope is the way forward? They have to be carefully put into the england team, as we all know character is a massive trait in tournaments and thats why we need experience. What happens if we have the same situation in 6 years time, you going to suggest we wait another 6 years?
Give it all weve got now with the best we have now
Is anyone finding it unendingly refreshing not to hear ol' Shrek's name mentioned every 10 seconds in the lead up to these tournaments? I sure as hell am.
I think what the Getmans and Dutch did (particularly the Germans) was more a complete overhaul of their system from the bottom up. They employed thousands of coaches qualified who worked with hundreds of thousands of high school age kids through their schooling system. This started in the early 2000's when Germany had little hope for the future and were desperately worried about the 2006 WC in their back yard. Their current success has less to do with giving youngsters a couple of games in a tournament and more to do with their wholesale revision of their approach to producing footballers. The fact is that England just aren't producing the players, playing kids in a major tournament might marginally improve their experience levels but it won't turn them into world class players.
Quite so SE9Addick, a good example of planning long term
Mparsons1, yes we could wait another 6 years. How long is it now, 46 years of hurt? Yeah, the old way of doing it seems to be working so well let's stick with it. Then we complain how we were "unlucky" in the quarters as always and kid ourselves that we would have won it.
If France dont sell significantly more tickets over the next few days will they just give them away to locals ? Can't imagine they want half empty stadiums
Quite so SE9Addick, a good example of planning long term
Mparsons1, yes we could wait another 6 years. How long is it now, 46 years of hurt? Yeah, the old way of doing it seems to be working so well let's stick with it. Then we complain how we were "unlucky" in the quarters as always and kid ourselves that we would have won it.
we neec to start at grassroutes not chuck the youngsters in at the deep end, play the best we have now and develop the youth within the 6 years, dont see the point in chucking in youngsters who arent ready now and will do more harm than good
Quite so SE9Addick, a good example of planning long term
Mparsons1, yes we could wait another 6 years. How long is it now, 46 years of hurt? Yeah, the old way of doing it seems to be working so well let's stick with it. Then we complain how we were "unlucky" in the quarters as always and kid ourselves that we would have won it.
we neec to start at grassroutes not chuck the youngsters in at the deep end, play the best we have now and develop the youth within the 6 years, dont see the point in chucking in youngsters who arent ready now and will do more harm than good
Agree to a point but you have to play those youngsters at sometime. Why will it do more harm than good? That only holds true if every game is a must win, which currently it is according to the media and many fans, even a friendly.
So if we play poorly v Norway or Belgium and a kid doesn't look like a world better he's written off. Just go back and read the match reports on CL for those two games. It's how quickly these players are written off that is the problem. All young players need time. Think of Solly. Written off as useless and too small after about 6 games by many on here. It would have been one game with England.
We need to break the cycle because otherwise there will never be a chance for kids to play competitive games and learn.
That means taking the hit of playing kids, most likely losing (like we have anyway with the "golden generation" and just about every England team for 46 years) but chalking it up to gaining experience for next time. It will be very difficult as most England fans have zero patience and just worry about the next 90 mins but that has to change.
Then maybe we will have a group of players with experience of games, of tournaments, of playing alongside each other and of using different tactics/formations who can play as a team and be more than the sum of their parts. That's how Germany do it and that's what Greece did.
I won't hold my breath but maybe Roy will be brave enough.
Comments
We simply don't have the talent available to play the likes of Spain, Germany and even France at their own game.
Still not sure why Rio wasn't picked but would have been happy to see neither him or Terry in the squad.
The point is that we don't win these tournaments because we aren't as good as the media tell us, we are tactically poor and our players can't cope with playing in tournaments. So rather than picking a lot of over the hill players better to blood some youngsters and prepare the team for 4 or 6 years time. Maybe then we could do something. Spain only started winning when they dropped the undropable Raul.
Yes, we could do a Greece and I hope we do but it is unlikely so better to use the opportunity to prepare for the future. Shame is that the "future" for England is always the next 90 minutes so nothing changes and nothing improves.
So we can doing what we've always done and so carry on getting what we've always got ie quarter final defeat or we try something different like preparing players over years not weeks, having a tactical plan that suit us and picking players based on that plan not on which sky 4 club they play for.
Just as long as we demand success NOW and give no time to preparing for the years ahead we'll never improve as a football nation.
But germany and holland give their young players game time early on and in major games. They also realise the importance of tournament play rather than just giving a kid 30 minutes in a friendly.
But lets go on doing what we always do and go on getting bad results.
Give it all weve got now with the best we have now
Mparsons1, yes we could wait another 6 years. How long is it now, 46 years of hurt? Yeah, the old way of doing it seems to be working so well let's stick with it. Then we complain how we were "unlucky" in the quarters as always and kid ourselves that we would have won it.
Russia v Germany
Spain v England
Holland v Poland
France v Croatia
Semis
Germany v Spain
Holland v Croatia
Final
Spain v Holland
Winners Holland
Agree to a point but you have to play those youngsters at sometime. Why will it do more harm than good? That only holds true if every game is a must win, which currently it is according to the media and many fans, even a friendly.
So if we play poorly v Norway or Belgium and a kid doesn't look like a world better he's written off. Just go back and read the match reports on CL for those two games. It's how quickly these players are written off that is the problem. All young players need time. Think of Solly. Written off as useless and too small after about 6 games by many on here. It would have been one game with England.
We need to break the cycle because otherwise there will never be a chance for kids to play competitive games and learn.
That means taking the hit of playing kids, most likely losing (like we have anyway with the "golden generation" and just about every England team for 46 years) but chalking it up to gaining experience for next time. It will be very difficult as most England fans have zero patience and just worry about the next 90 mins but that has to change.
Then maybe we will have a group of players with experience of games, of tournaments, of playing alongside each other and of using different tactics/formations who can play as a team and be more than the sum of their parts. That's how Germany do it and that's what Greece did.
I won't hold my breath but maybe Roy will be brave enough.