Film out a few years ago called Katyn which tells the story. Not particularly nice to watch but tells what to many is the untold story of the second world war.
Got back from Donestk last night after near on 28 hours travelling back. A 13hr sleeper train in 37 degree heat is not for the faint hearted followed by a groggy bus and two flights, holes in teh ground for toilets etc etc. Was it worth is? Just about as always!!
Did not seen any trouble in Donetsk, although there were several battered and bruised England fans in the away end, apparently caused by the Russians again. Surprised how nice the place was but it's def got more expensive than a few years back.
Re, the Russians - they were all over Donetsk - easily more of them than England in the ground and loud and in your face. There must have literally been about 200 (obvious) French.
Anyone who has travelled to Russia/Poland/Ukraine with England knows they have all been like this for years! The political stuff would not help matters, but it was always going to be the most violent tournament in recent memory and it was obvious we would play very little or no part in that, as Englands support is a world appart from even 10 years back. Ask Aberdeen about Ukraine too!!
I would not be too keen on being in Donetsk after the Ukraine game if we knock them out.
Re, the punishment - it is good (and surprising) to see Uefa have gone through with it.
Henry, On the matter above, we were definitley told we would be chucked out of Euro 2000, after Charleio, if there was anymore of the same and i'm sure we got a similar threat after some very isolated chanting and going on the pitch to celebrate against the Turks in at the SOL.
I would also add that the trouble in Chorloi was the most overblown story ever - The Germans tauned the English, threw the first bottles, England responsed with some plastic chairs and the country went potty - not a single punch was thrown - it was a laughable over-reaction!!! You can't even compare that with what has been going on out here.
Also France 98 in Marsellei (sp) - England reacted to severe provocation and violence from the local North African population, after the hilarious decision to have us playing the Tunisians there in the first place.
I don't remember France getting threatened with expulsion after they put a copper in a Coma in Lens in 98? Turkey have played up at every game going and never got the explusion threats we got as far as i'm aware. Everytime England or English clubs go to Italy, someone gets stabbed, Spain have been racist beyone belief (esp Madrid 04), The police in most Countries we play love cracking English skulls with no justification and the locals in Eastern europe have been attacking innocent English fans for years - yet we got threats for the 2000 And SOL incidents, where nothing really happened.
We have been bad in the past yes, but the reactions from the Governing bodies to events around the late 90's to early 00's was ridiclious compared to what other countries were also doing and still are in my opinion.
Organiser, we may or may not have been threatened with expulsion but the fact is we weren't kicked out.
Just as after the abandonment of the Ireland game in 1995 we were still allowed to host Euro 96.
This is not about who is worse, who started it or who is to blame. Nearly every time another countries fans cause trouble people trot out the line "It was was England we would have been kicked out now" when all the facts say exactly the opposite.
I agree about being kicked out, but I don't and never have liked the fact we were threatened with it, when a lot lot worse was going on elsewhere - which for me is double standards from Uefa and the like.
Dublin was bad - some of the English fans sould be ahsamed of themselves that night. Yes the Irish started it with the bottles of piss being thrown and the IRA chants, but the response was pathetic (the throwing of chairs down on to innocents etc). A lot of the bad feeling came from what happened to England out there two years prior and the refusual to not play our anthem didn't help, but it does not excuse our behaviour that night.
I could fully understand threats after that game, but it was all the stuff after Euro 96 I was on about, when the actual threats did happen.
Dublin was bad - some of the English fans sould be ahsamed of themselves that night. Yes the Irish started it with the bottles of piss being thrown and the IRA chants, but the response was pathetic (the throwing of chairs down on to innocents etc). A lot of the bad feeling came from what happened to England out there two years prior and the refusual to not play our anthem didn't help, but it does not excuse our behaviour that night.
I could fully understand threats after that game, but it was all the stuff after Euro 96 I was on about, when the actual threats did happen.
i'm surprised that the anthem wouldn't have been played, according to wikipedia both anthems were and the irish jeered gstq.
Weren't the press a little bit more active than they would wish you to know out in Chaleroi? Buying rounds of drinks & what not to loosen the fans throwing arms ready for a few plastic chairs?
Dublin was bad - some of the English fans sould be ahsamed of themselves that night. Yes the Irish started it with the bottles of piss being thrown and the IRA chants, but the response was pathetic (the throwing of chairs down on to innocents etc). A lot of the bad feeling came from what happened to England out there two years prior and the refusual to not play our anthem didn't help, but it does not excuse our behaviour that night.
I could fully understand threats after that game, but it was all the stuff after Euro 96 I was on about, when the actual threats did happen.
i'm surprised that the anthem wouldn't have been played, according to wikipedia both anthems were and the irish jeered gstq.
Weren't the press a little bit more active than they would wish you to know out in Chaleroi? Buying rounds of drinks & what not to loosen the fans throwing arms ready for a few plastic chairs?
I was out there with a few Charlton and Chelsea we walked into a bar full Derby County lads who had not bought a beer all day as they were bought by sun reporters! As soon as a few Germans walked pass the reporter shouted "The Krauts are here" thinking that all the Derby lads would start smashing it up but they all stayed seated and told them to do one and nice try!!
Comments
Did not seen any trouble in Donetsk, although there were several battered and bruised England fans in the away end, apparently caused by the Russians again. Surprised how nice the place was but it's def got more expensive than a few years back.
Re, the Russians - they were all over Donetsk - easily more of them than England in the ground and loud and in your face. There must have literally been about 200 (obvious) French.
Anyone who has travelled to Russia/Poland/Ukraine with England knows they have all been like this for years! The political stuff would not help matters, but it was always going to be the most violent tournament in recent memory and it was obvious we would play very little or no part in that, as Englands support is a world appart from even 10 years back.
Ask Aberdeen about Ukraine too!!
I would not be too keen on being in Donetsk after the Ukraine game if we knock them out.
Re, the punishment - it is good (and surprising) to see Uefa have gone through with it.
Henry, On the matter above, we were definitley told we would be chucked out of Euro 2000, after Charleio, if there was anymore of the same and i'm sure we got a similar threat after some very isolated chanting and going on the pitch to celebrate against the Turks in at the SOL.
I would also add that the trouble in Chorloi was the most overblown story ever - The Germans tauned the English, threw the first bottles, England responsed with some plastic chairs and the country went potty - not a single punch was thrown - it was a laughable over-reaction!!! You can't even compare that with what has been going on out here.
Also France 98 in Marsellei (sp) - England reacted to severe provocation and violence from the local North African population, after the hilarious decision to have us playing the Tunisians there in the first place.
I don't remember France getting threatened with expulsion after they put a copper in a Coma in Lens in 98? Turkey have played up at every game going and never got the explusion threats we got as far as i'm aware. Everytime England or English clubs go to Italy, someone gets stabbed, Spain have been racist beyone belief (esp Madrid 04), The police in most Countries we play love cracking English skulls with no justification and the locals in Eastern europe have been attacking innocent English fans for years - yet we got threats for the 2000 And SOL incidents, where nothing really happened.
We have been bad in the past yes, but the reactions from the Governing bodies to events around the late 90's to early 00's was ridiclious compared to what other countries were also doing and still are in my opinion.
Just as after the abandonment of the Ireland game in 1995 we were still allowed to host Euro 96.
This is not about who is worse, who started it or who is to blame. Nearly every time another countries fans cause trouble people trot out the line "It was was England we would have been kicked out now" when all the facts say exactly the opposite.
That was all i was trying to say.
In terms of injuries perhaps but how many games have had to be abandoned?
I could fully understand threats after that game, but it was all the stuff after Euro 96 I was on about, when the actual threats did happen.
i'm surprised that the anthem wouldn't have been played, according to wikipedia both anthems were and the irish jeered gstq.
Wiki Link
The reporters faces were a picture......LOL