Why are people lauding Wiggins, when from my ignorant eye of watching each year but not understanding the intricacies, clearly Froome is the better cyclist?
I know its a fabulous endurance test and they are all superb athletes, but surely Wiggins wouldnt ever be a winner were it not for a better rider being told not to win?
Or am I missing something crucial?
Ah, but has he got as many Olympic medals (6) or track records as Wiggo, who's made an great transition from track to road.
It's all about team structure and Froome (and Cav) knew what they were taking on when they signed up for Sky for this season, which was to get Wiggo to Paris in the Maillot Jaune.
Froome will have his day, probably next year with another team, if the present Sky team implodes, which it's likely to. I can't see Cav doing this again next season.
But hey ho, grab it while it lasts, roll on Sunday.
Cheers MAM. Interesting. How do they decide who is to be the main man in each team - is it based on past performances/achievements?
Why are people lauding Wiggins, when from my ignorant eye of watching each year but not understanding the intricacies, clearly Froome is the better cyclist?
I know its a fabulous endurance test and they are all superb athletes, but surely Wiggins wouldnt ever be a winner were it not for a better rider being told not to win?
Or am I missing something crucial?
Ah, but has he got as many Olympic medals (6) or track records as Wiggo, who's made an great transition from track to road.
It's all about team structure and Froome (and Cav) knew what they were taking on when they signed up for Sky for this season, which was to get Wiggo to Paris in the Maillot Jaune.
Froome will have his day, probably next year with another team, if the present Sky team implodes, which it's likely to. I can't see Cav doing this again next season.
But hey ho, grab it while it lasts, roll on Sunday.
Cheers MAM. Interesting. How do they decide who is to be the main man in each team - is it based on past performances/achievements?
Probably the way you pick any team. Horses for courses, who's got the strongest legs, fastest sprint, who's in form etc., and try to get the mix right.
Sky have been a model in team work this season IMO.
Righto, so did they get it wrong with the Wiggins/Froome choices or was Wiggins seen as the stronger individual? Will he stay with Sky next year? Why would they change a winnig formula? Would it be Froome wanting a piece of the glory?
as said Froome doesn't do all the work. The other team members start the work then he takes over at the end. Wiggins has also been doing work leading team at the start of the climbs. Froome would not be in the condition he is in at the top if it wasn't for the others leading him.
The problem is most people here are going to be watching the highlights and they tend to concentrate on the top parts of the mountains and the end of stages when Froome has taken over so he's the one who's seen and remembered.
A few days ago Wiggins tried to set up a stage win for Froome at the top of a serious climb. He absolutely anhialated everyone with his burst of pace, even Froome, and had to stop and wait for him. That hasn't been talked about as much. Wiggins is very very strong but the way the Sky team is set up and the way the Tour has progressed he's been pretty comfortable so it's difficult to truly judge between him and Froome over all. Wiggins is also the better TT rider and as it's a long TT on Saturday it'll be interesting to see how much better than Froome (although he doesn't need to go all out).
Froome is a fantastic, strong cyclist and I'm excited about watching him in future Tours. Probably with a different team.
I've looked through this thread and online but can't see the answer so here goes....
I've been getting into this for the first time this year thanks to Wiggins but I'm wondering how does the final stage work?
Do they set off together then at the end of the race work out who has won or do they release them from the start based on their time...so Wiggins first, 2.05 later next one and so on?
That way they would create a first past the post winner but it can't be easy pacing yourself alone so surely it would be better for the leader if they all set off together.
Why are people lauding Wiggins, when from my ignorant eye of watching each year but not understanding the intricacies, clearly Froome is the better cyclist?
I know its a fabulous endurance test and they are all superb athletes, but surely Wiggins wouldnt ever be a winner were it not for a better rider being told not to win?
Or am I missing something crucial?
Ultimately Wiggins is the team leader and Froome and the other Team Sky members are there to support and help him, that's their job and what they are told and paid to do and that's the way it is. Sky have planned this Tour carefully with the right riders around Wiggins to help get him through the mountain stages where one bad day could spell curtains. Froome's form on this Tour has been a revelation though, earlier this season he was suffering from Bilharzia and although he's a good rider he wasn't expected to be this strong. Next year and after will be about him.
I've looked through this thread and online but can't see the answer so here goes....
I've been getting into this for the first time this year thanks to Wiggins but I'm wondering how does the final stage work?
Do they set off together then at the end of the race work out who has won or do they release them from the start based on their time...so Wiggins first, 2.05 later next one and so on?
That way they would create a first past the post winner but it can't be easy pacing yourself alone so surely it would be better for the leader if they all set off together.
Can someone please put my mind at rest?
Cheers
They all set off together as they do on all stages barring the prologue and Time Trials.
Traditionally however they don't race on the last day of the TdeF, they take it easy strolling into Paris and do a few laps of central Paris and then have a sprint finish and that's that. So whoever is in yellow tomorrow night (after the second and final Time Trial) will win the race providing he doesn't fall off, get hit by lightning or suffer some calamity that prevents him from finishing.
On the TT the riders leave in reverse order at two minute intervals with Wiggins going last.
Just got back from me hols. I was nipping up to the room most days to check how things were going and then timing my return for the finish. Only downside it was on Eurosport in German!
I have to say I've swayed both ways on whether Froome would/could have won this year if he was leader. Wiggins is still the better TT rider (but not by much) and as others have said, the whole set up this year was focused on Wiggins to win, so why chnage track half way through and have the possibility of neither of them winning (OK unlikely, but what IF!).
Froome will have his day for sure.
Great to learn that Cav got his 2nd stage win today. Not sure if his plans have changed in the last two weeks but he's as bad at climbing as he's good at sprinting, so is he just crosssing his fingers that the pace isn't too hot up the hills in the Olympics?
Not celebrating yet.......almost....but not yet. Froome could've destroyed Wiggins in this tour but the last climb summed up what a great team it takes to win le tour and how unselfish people have to be for you to win.
The little smile on Wiggo's face at the end was great as well:
The whole picture sums it up
So true. If I had to pick a picture that summed how the yellow jersey was won this would be it.
As for Cav that was amazing, he was at least 50 meters back when he started sprinting and finished with at least 3 bike lengths to his nearest competitor, pure class, here you can watch it again:
As for me I was inspired by Britain's success at le tour and decided to jump on my bike for a quick 15 mile ride as I wasn't happy with the 30 mile ride I did earlier.
Anyway my chain came off and it started to piss it down, I really could do with a team car behind me. : (
I don't know what sort of cycling some of you have been watching but it's most unlikely the Sky team will implode. Cyclists don't often have contracts they can just rip up. Hence Contador being stuck at Astana when he desperately wanted to leave for a couple of years. Some cyclists may be rich enough to sign a contract that includes a break clause in their favour, there is little chance Froome or Wiggins have this: Garmin were paid to break Wiggins contract, I doubt few teams could do that for either Froome or Wiggins now.
Cavendish may have been able to, but it would defeat the whole purpose of him dooming HTC so he can join up with the Brailsford method again. He knows joining a GC team means the team will not be built arround him, and he can't rely on them in every stage, so why doom a team that's sole purpose was his purpose.
As for Froome it's clear he has been the stronger rider in the mountains. In fact it was clear he's been the strongest Brit rider in the mountains since his days at Barloworld in the Giro, that's four odd years ago. But Bradley rides a better prologue and time trial, on harder uphill time trails like in last years Vuelta Froome would most probably win out of the two. A team goes into the Tour with mainly the strongest rider, but also the one who strategically is the strongest. Clearly with Brad's from at Paris Nice and the Dauphine, he was the superior rider over Froome.
Once you choose your captain everyone rides for him. It's unlikely Froome would have gained significant time over Nibali, but possible he'd have lost time for Brad. Hinault and Lemond is the most famous example in recent years of the captain being weaker than his young lieutenant. The baton only changes when the captain cracks and cannot keep with his rivals: something Hinault did, but Lemond was lied to by the team manager in order to keep him back to assist Hinault. It's unlikely a Tour will suit Bradley so well again, in his peak years of the next few years. So Froome will get his chance. If Froome beats Brad in the TT we should know barring injury who the captain will be next season. Still let's hope Froome rides the Vuelta, as Sky should have a lot more proffessional team this year, one that doesn't drop it's fifth rider in a TTT.
ps I have to say, that despite my joy over the Wiggins situation, I have quite a bit of sympathy for Cadel Evans. His team was no where to be seen in most of the upper parts of the mountain stages.
Also a big 'hats off' to all those French farmers who go to all that trouble each year, just for their two seconds of glory. The three donkeys, in yellow, green and polka dot yesterday were brilliant!
ps I have to say, that despite my joy over the Wiggins situation, I have quite a bit of sympathy for Cadel Evans. His team was no where to be seen in most of the upper parts of the mountain stages.
Also a big 'hats off' to all those French farmers who go to all that trouble each year, just for their two seconds of glory. The three donkeys, in yellow, green and polka dot yesterday were brilliant!
French tv commentators considered the donkeys more insulting than amusing.
Good info, thanks folks. Fascinating tour this year.
This from the BBC today Sir Chris Hoy has claimed if Bradley Wiggins wins the Tour de France then it will be the "greatest sporting achievement" by a British athlete.
Comments
How do they decide who is to be the main man in each team - is it based on past performances/achievements?
Probably the way you pick any team. Horses for courses, who's got the strongest legs, fastest sprint, who's in form etc., and try to get the mix right.
Sky have been a model in team work this season IMO.
Will he stay with Sky next year?
Why would they change a winnig formula? Would it be Froome wanting a piece of the glory?
as said Froome doesn't do all the work. The other team members start the work then he takes over at the end. Wiggins has also been doing work leading team at the start of the climbs. Froome would not be in the condition he is in at the top if it wasn't for the others leading him.
The problem is most people here are going to be watching the highlights and they tend to concentrate on the top parts of the mountains and the end of stages when Froome has taken over so he's the one who's seen and remembered.
A few days ago Wiggins tried to set up a stage win for Froome at the top of a serious climb. He absolutely anhialated everyone with his burst of pace, even Froome, and had to stop and wait for him. That hasn't been talked about as much. Wiggins is very very strong but the way the Sky team is set up and the way the Tour has progressed he's been pretty comfortable so it's difficult to truly judge between him and
Froome over all. Wiggins is also the better TT rider and as it's a long TT on Saturday it'll be interesting to see how much better than Froome (although he doesn't need to go all out).
Froome is a fantastic, strong cyclist and I'm excited about watching him in future Tours. Probably with a different team.
You're speaking to wrong one here Floyd :-) Bradley Wiggins has been one of my heroes since the Sydney olympics, second only to Eddie Firmani.
http://road.cc/content/news/62239-brad-all-over-itv1-screen-last-two-stages-tour-de-france-wiggo-hits-headlines
Another cyclist, surely not!
Step up Bradley Wiggins.
I've been getting into this for the first time this year thanks to Wiggins but I'm wondering how does the final stage work?
Do they set off together then at the end of the race work out who has won or do they release them from the start based on their time...so Wiggins first, 2.05 later next one and so on?
That way they would create a first past the post winner but it can't be easy pacing yourself alone so surely it would be better for the leader if they all set off together.
Can someone please put my mind at rest?
Cheers
Traditionally however they don't race on the last day of the TdeF, they take it easy strolling into Paris and do a few laps of central Paris and then have a sprint finish and that's that. So whoever is in yellow tomorrow night (after the second and final Time Trial) will win the race providing he doesn't fall off, get hit by lightning or suffer some calamity that prevents him from finishing.
On the TT the riders leave in reverse order at two minute intervals with Wiggins going last.
I have to say I've swayed both ways on whether Froome would/could have won this year if he was leader. Wiggins is still the better TT rider (but not by much) and as others have said, the whole set up this year was focused on Wiggins to win, so why chnage track half way through and have the possibility of neither of them winning (OK unlikely, but what IF!).
Froome will have his day for sure.
Great to learn that Cav got his 2nd stage win today. Not sure if his plans have changed in the last two weeks but he's as bad at climbing as he's good at sprinting, so is he just crosssing his fingers that the pace isn't too hot up the hills in the Olympics?
As for Cav that was amazing, he was at least 50 meters back when he started sprinting and finished with at least 3 bike lengths to his nearest competitor, pure class, here you can watch it again:
He could've won the green this year if he wasn't being a domestique for Wiggo.
Anyway my chain came off and it started to piss it down, I really could do with a team car behind me. : (
Cavendish may have been able to, but it would defeat the whole purpose of him dooming HTC so he can join up with the Brailsford method again. He knows joining a GC team means the team will not be built arround him, and he can't rely on them in every stage, so why doom a team that's sole purpose was his purpose.
As for Froome it's clear he has been the stronger rider in the mountains. In fact it was clear he's been the strongest Brit rider in the mountains since his days at Barloworld in the Giro, that's four odd years ago. But Bradley rides a better prologue and time trial, on harder uphill time trails like in last years Vuelta Froome would most probably win out of the two. A team goes into the Tour with mainly the strongest rider, but also the one who strategically is the strongest. Clearly with Brad's from at Paris Nice and the Dauphine, he was the superior rider over Froome.
Once you choose your captain everyone rides for him. It's unlikely Froome would have gained significant time over Nibali, but possible he'd have lost time for Brad. Hinault and Lemond is the most famous example in recent years of the captain being weaker than his young lieutenant. The baton only changes when the captain cracks and cannot keep with his rivals: something Hinault did, but Lemond was lied to by the team manager in order to keep him back to assist Hinault. It's unlikely a Tour will suit Bradley so well again, in his peak years of the next few years. So Froome will get his chance. If Froome beats Brad in the TT we should know barring injury who the captain will be next season. Still let's hope Froome rides the Vuelta, as Sky should have a lot more proffessional team this year, one that doesn't drop it's fifth rider in a TTT.
Also a big 'hats off' to all those French farmers who go to all that trouble each year, just for their two seconds of glory. The three donkeys, in yellow, green and polka dot yesterday were brilliant!
This from the BBC today
Sir Chris Hoy has claimed if Bradley Wiggins wins the Tour de France then it will be the "greatest sporting achievement" by a British athlete.
Great summary of top ten riders over the years
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18922101
Evans passed by his own team-mate had to hurt.
if wiggins wins the tour then he has got to be nailed on for sports personality of the year award?