This picture explains what I love about England even with its its currently grotty climate. We spent yesterday in the cold and wind walking around a quintessential English aristocracy garden. The bees were everywhere, there was a delphinium show and endless hardy geraniums were for sale. The gardeners wife had produced homemade cakes and tiffin. Cups of tea could be had in a dusty barn or outside on rickety tables and an assortment of garden chairs. For me, it was just perfectly English.
Chicken Korma please, proppa English food. Anyway, did anyone see Timeteam on sunday? When the Romans invaded the English would fight them naked armed only with a sword or spear. That made me proud. It's also the reason we lost.
Henry you can hardly say all the posts are positive. Some are anti some taking the piss (maybe thats Englishness as well?).
As for the BNP i cant think of one thing they have in common with this thread., and i think your getting confused with the EDL and the BNP not the English Demoracts.
Even Red Ed says we should not be afraid of expressing our Englishness----------------there are no words that can express how i feel about that statement from a Labour leader
...And the literature that it produces. Betjemin, Billy Shakes, Orwell, Waugh and a thousand more...
What about your fellow Bromleyite HG Wells?
Sorry to be 'difficult' but 'George Orwell' ( Eric Blair) was born in India, although he did come to England when he was very young. He did die in UCH London. If we can 'adopt' people, can I claim Jimi Hendrix, who 'we' discovered and he died here as well.........Well, if we are going to claim the Bee Gees as 'English' (born in the isle of man). For as Jimi once wrote if a 6 turns out to be 9, I don't mind.......
George Orwell was English, regardless of where he was born, so was Colin Cowdrey and my dad. John McEnroe is American not German.
I was being very 'tongue in cheek' . If you have read the works of the great man, who I regard as the greatest writer of the 20th century, you will know he was critical of most forms of authority. Not only in Animal farm which he wrote when ill on the scottish isle of Jura, but in the road to Wigan Pier, Burmese days, and Homage to Catalonia, and the wonderful 'Coming up for air' a major part of the book , being about 'nostalgia' and re-examination of his trip down memory lane, set against the second world war, and England. Of course he was one of us, he was a romantic patriot, he had a vision of the future, not always right, but above all he had a love for the individual, against the state. As you write it is what is in your heart, not an accident of where you were born. By the way my grandfather knew him while fighting in the Spanish civil war, against Fascism.
That's ok then - I'm also a massive fan of his, although read all his stuff a long time ago. Re-read Down and Out recently and need to delve again into some of the others. He wrote an essay on how to make the perfect cup of tea and described the ideal pub - he was quintessentially English.
I'm kind of with Rothko on this, but I'm "South Londoner first, British second, English third". My Mum was born in Wales and her parents were Welsh and Irish, so to just call myself English ignores a chunk of my heritage. But to answer the 6 Nations question, that's easy: England v Scotland - support England as I've no strong links to Scotland Wales v Scotland - support Wales (due to my Mum) England v Wales - spend the match stirring between my Mum and Dad as they'll each be supporting different sides. And to be honest, it's Rugby so I don't really care anyway. :-)
...And the literature that it produces. Betjemin, Billy Shakes, Orwell, Waugh and a thousand more...
What about your fellow Bromleyite HG Wells?
Sorry to be 'difficult' but 'George Orwell' ( Eric Blair) was born in India, although he did come to England when he was very young. He did die in UCH London. If we can 'adopt' people, can I claim Jimi Hendrix, who 'we' discovered and he died here as well.........Well, if we are going to claim the Bee Gees as 'English' (born in the isle of man). For as Jimi once wrote if a 6 turns out to be 9, I don't mind.......
George Orwell was English, regardless of where he was born, so was Colin Cowdrey and my dad. John McEnroe is American not German.
I was being very 'tongue in cheek' . If you have read the works of the great man, who I regard as the greatest writer of the 20th century, you will know he was critical of most forms of authority. Not only in Animal farm which he wrote when ill on the scottish isle of Jura, but in the road to Wigan Pier, Burmese days, and Homage to Catalonia, and the wonderful 'Coming up for air' a major part of the book , being about 'nostalgia' and re-examination of his trip down memory lane, set against the second world war, and England. Of course he was one of us, he was a romantic patriot, he had a vision of the future, not always right, but above all he had a love for the individual, against the state. As you write it is what is in your heart, not an accident of where you were born. By the way my grandfather knew him while fighting in the Spanish civil war, against Fascism.
That's ok then - I'm also a massive fan of his, although read all his stuff a long time ago. Re-read Down and Out recently and need to delve again into some of the others. He wrote an essay on how to make the perfect cup of tea and described the ideal pub - he was quintessentially English.
Yes the essays, I found very heavy going, as of course they question your 'beliefs' and of course he spent his life questioning his own beliefs, and political views, but always worked within the 'socialist framework' ...... "Why I Write", in which Orwell refers to the Spanish Civil War as being his "watershed political experience", saying "The Spanish War and other events in 1936–37, turned the scale. Thereafter I knew where I stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written directly or indirectly against totalitarianism and for Democratic Socialism as I understand it." . Interestingly, when room 101 at Broadcasting house was thought to be the 'room' the BBC went into 'paranoid overdrive' and tried to get my article 'spiked'. And although he never worked in the building the description is so evocative, even the most 'management speak jobsworth' could not deny the reality, albeit through gritted teeth. The head of heritage was rumoured to have said 'trust him to be his usual self'. Of course Orwell would have been very proud that the bbc managed to 'airbrush out' that bit of history. My photo and article still got published though. I think I got a christmas tree marked on my file after that...... which denoted a 'troublemaker' .
All this discussion of Orwell and nobody quotes "The Lion and the Unicorn". Here's a bit of the introduction...
When you come back to England from any foreign country, you have immediately the sensation of breathing a different air. Even in the first few minutes dozens of small things conspire to give you this feeling. The beer is bitterer, the coins are heavier, the grass is greener, the advertisements are more blatant. The crowds in the big towns, with their mild knobby faces, their bad teeth and gentle manners, are different from a European crowd. Then the vastness of England swallows you up, and you lose for a while your feeling that the whole nation has a single identifiable character. Are there really such things as nations? Are we not forty-six million individuals, all different? And the diversity of it, the chaos! The clatter of clogs in the Lancashire mill towns, the to-and-fro of the lorries on the Great North Road, the queues outside the Labour Exchanges, the rattle of pin-tables in the Soho pubs, the old maids hiking to Holy Communion through the mists of the autumn morning — all these are not only fragments, but CHARACTERISTIC fragments, of the English scene. How can one make a pattern out of this muddle?
But talk to foreigners, read foreign books or newspapers, and you are brought back to the same thought. Yes, there is something distinctive and recognizable in English civilization. It is a culture as individual as that of Spain. It is somehow bound up with solid breakfasts and gloomy Sundays, smoky towns and winding roads, green fields and red pillar-boxes. It has a flavour of its own. Moreover it is continuous, it stretches into the future and the past, there is something in it that persists, as in a living creature. What can the England of 1940 have in common with the England of 1840? But then, what have you in common with the child of five whose photograph your mother keeps on the mantelpiece? Nothing, except that you happen to be the same person.
And above all, it is YOUR civilization, it is you. However much you hate it or laugh at it, you will never be happy away from it for any length of time. The suet puddings and the red pillar-boxes have entered into your soul. Good or evil, it is yours, you belong to it, and this side the grave you will never get away from the marks that it has given you.
Meanwhile England, together with the rest of the world, is changing. And like everything else it can change only in certain directions, which up to a point can be foreseen. That is not to say that the future is fixed, merely that certain alternatives are possible and others not. A seed may grow or not grow, but at any rate a turnip seed never grows into a parsnip. It is therefore of the deepest importance to try and determine what England IS, before guessing what part England CAN PLAY in the huge events that are happening.
Fascinating thread. I am proud to be English and like others have commented above, I can't imagine living anywhere else. I'm not a royalist, but that doesn't make me anti-British.
My list of Britishness would include:
Beer Charlton Athletic Queues Obsession with the weather Politeness Democracy The BBC (obviously diminished since they let Ken go!) Friendly Police (there are exceptions like when I nearly got trampled underfoot by a police horse after the Cardiff game a couple of seasons back) Led Zep The Beatles The Stones Etc!
Fascinating thread. I am proud to be English and like others have commented above, I can't imagine living anywhere else. I'm not a royalist, but that doesn't make me anti-British.
My list of Britishness would include:
Beer Charlton Athletic Queues Obsession with the weather Politeness Democracy The BBC (obviously diminished since they let Ken go!) Friendly Police (there are exceptions like when I nearly got trampled underfoot by a police horse after the Cardiff game a couple of seasons back) Led Zep The Beatles The Stones Etc!
You open with how proud you are to be English and how you couldn't live anywhere else and then state what you like about Britain.
PL54, yes I am well aware of the difference - I should have used "Britain" and "British". Having had ashtrays thrown at me for being English in a Welsh pub kinda helped clarify it for me. Some of the things on my list the Welsh, Scottish and Irish do just as well as us English people.
Just to be clear, I'm proud to be English, I'm proud to be British, I'm proud that England is part of Britain and I want Scotland to remain so. I used to be proud to be a European, but just lately I'm not so sure!
We leave the selection of the Olympic team to a twat like Pearce and allow him to leave out a National sporting icon like Beckham. I appreciate this is a British team, but this is a bloody outrage. We need a petition ffs.........
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the 'V sign', 'two fingered salute' or sticking two fingers up at someone has got to be the only hand gesture that is entirely attributed to a particular nation - ours and certainly if we're not the only ones that use it, we are the only nation that uses it in a derogatory manner.
It manages to define many of our national characteristics - defiance, arrogance, insubordination (a trait that the Duke of Wellington implied to describe the underclasses that underpinned his army 'the scum of the earth'), even truculence.
I'm not saying it paints the entire picture of 'what makes us English' but even in the meekest and most calm individual there is surely a grain of truth to it.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the 'V sign', 'two fingered salute' or sticking two fingers up at someone has got to be the only hand gesture that is entirely attributed to a particular nation - ours and certainly if we're not the only ones that use it, we are the only nation that uses it in a derogatory manner.
It manages to define many of our national characteristics - defiance, arrogance, insubordination (a trait that the Duke of Wellington implied to describe the underclasses that underpinned his army 'the scum of the earth'), even truculence.
I'm not saying it paints the entire picture of 'what makes us English' but even in the meekest and most calm individual there is surely a grain of truth to it.
it's cos our archers were so good. The French would chop off the two fingers of captured English bowmen, hence the two fingered salute.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the 'V sign', 'two fingered salute' or sticking two fingers up at someone has got to be the only hand gesture that is entirely attributed to a particular nation - ours and certainly if we're not the only ones that use it, we are the only nation that uses it in a derogatory manner.
It manages to define many of our national characteristics - defiance, arrogance, insubordination (a trait that the Duke of Wellington implied to describe the underclasses that underpinned his army 'the scum of the earth'), even truculence.
I'm not saying it paints the entire picture of 'what makes us English' but even in the meekest and most calm individual there is surely a grain of truth to it.
it's cos our archers were so good. The French would chop off the two fingers of captured English bowmen, hence the two fingered salute.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the 'V sign', 'two fingered salute' or sticking two fingers up at someone has got to be the only hand gesture that is entirely attributed to a particular nation - ours and certainly if we're not the only ones that use it, we are the only nation that uses it in a derogatory manner.
It manages to define many of our national characteristics - defiance, arrogance, insubordination (a trait that the Duke of Wellington implied to describe the underclasses that underpinned his army 'the scum of the earth'), even truculence.
I'm not saying it paints the entire picture of 'what makes us English' but even in the meekest and most calm individual there is surely a grain of truth to it.
it's cos our archers were so good. The French would chop off the two fingers of captured English bowmen, hence the two fingered salute.
Urban myth.
by gad sir you're right. How about `Kicking the Frenchmans head' a game similar to football played in East Sussex.
Comments
This picture explains what I love about England even with its its currently grotty climate. We spent yesterday in the cold and wind walking around a quintessential English aristocracy garden. The bees were everywhere, there was a delphinium show and endless hardy geraniums were for sale. The gardeners wife had produced homemade cakes and tiffin. Cups of tea could be had in a dusty barn or outside on rickety tables and an assortment of garden chairs. For me, it was just perfectly English.
Anyway, did anyone see Timeteam on sunday?
When the Romans invaded the English would fight them naked armed only with a sword or spear. That made me proud.
It's also the reason we lost.
As for the BNP i cant think of one thing they have in common with this thread., and i think your getting confused with the EDL and the BNP not the English Demoracts.
Even Red Ed says we should not be afraid of expressing our Englishness----------------there are no words that can express how i feel about that statement from a Labour leader
England v Scotland - support England as I've no strong links to Scotland
Wales v Scotland - support Wales (due to my Mum)
England v Wales - spend the match stirring between my Mum and Dad as they'll each be supporting different sides. And to be honest, it's Rugby so I don't really care anyway. :-)
There will be whiskey and singing.
Fawlty Towers, Only Fools etc etc ...
When you come back to England from any foreign country, you have immediately the sensation of breathing a different air. Even in the first few minutes dozens of small things conspire to give you this feeling. The beer is bitterer, the coins are heavier, the grass is greener, the advertisements are more blatant. The crowds in the big towns, with their mild knobby faces, their bad teeth and gentle manners, are different from a European crowd. Then the vastness of England swallows you up, and you lose for a while your feeling that the whole nation has a single identifiable character. Are there really such things as nations? Are we not forty-six million individuals, all different? And the diversity of it, the chaos! The clatter of clogs in the Lancashire mill towns, the to-and-fro of the lorries on the Great North Road, the queues outside the Labour Exchanges, the rattle of pin-tables in the Soho pubs, the old maids hiking to Holy Communion through the mists of the autumn morning — all these are not only fragments, but CHARACTERISTIC fragments, of the English scene. How can one make a pattern out of this muddle?
But talk to foreigners, read foreign books or newspapers, and you are brought back to the same thought. Yes, there is something distinctive and recognizable in English civilization. It is a culture as individual as that of Spain. It is somehow bound up with solid breakfasts and gloomy Sundays, smoky towns and winding roads, green fields and red pillar-boxes. It has a flavour of its own. Moreover it is continuous, it stretches into the future and the past, there is something in it that persists, as in a living creature. What can the England of 1940 have in common with the England of 1840? But then, what have you in common with the child of five whose photograph your mother keeps on the mantelpiece? Nothing, except that you happen to be the same person.
And above all, it is YOUR civilization, it is you. However much you hate it or laugh at it, you will never be happy away from it for any length of time. The suet puddings and the red pillar-boxes have entered into your soul. Good or evil, it is yours, you belong to it, and this side the grave you will never get away from the marks that it has given you.
Meanwhile England, together with the rest of the world, is changing. And like everything else it can change only in certain directions, which up to a point can be foreseen. That is not to say that the future is fixed, merely that certain alternatives are possible and others not. A seed may grow or not grow, but at any rate a turnip seed never grows into a parsnip. It is therefore of the deepest importance to try and determine what England IS, before guessing what part England CAN PLAY in the huge events that are happening.
My list of Britishness would include:
Beer
Charlton Athletic
Queues
Obsession with the weather
Politeness
Democracy
The BBC (obviously diminished since they let Ken go!)
Friendly Police (there are exceptions like when I nearly got trampled underfoot by a police horse after the Cardiff game a couple of seasons back)
Led Zep
The Beatles
The Stones
Etc!
They are different (aren't they ?)
Just to be clear, I'm proud to be English, I'm proud to be British, I'm proud that England is part of Britain and I want Scotland to remain so. I used to be proud to be a European, but just lately I'm not so sure!
It manages to define many of our national characteristics - defiance, arrogance, insubordination (a trait that the Duke of Wellington implied to describe the underclasses that underpinned his army 'the scum of the earth'), even truculence.
I'm not saying it paints the entire picture of 'what makes us English' but even in the meekest and most calm individual there is surely a grain of truth to it.
How about `Kicking the Frenchmans head' a game similar to football played in East Sussex.