Strange because the current planning application doesn't make it clear about the ground being expanded, just that there is an opportunity for the corners to be filled in with commercial units/conferencing rooms.
As for the Surrey Canal Station @Friend or Defoe, with 2500 homes potentially meaning about 5000+ people and multiple sporting facilities etc, don't you think that a station on the ELL would be much needed?
Not really, they could walk to New Cross/Gate in ten to fifteen minutes. It helps out millwall more than anyone.
Yeah of course. A regneration company want to flog 2500 homes and numerous sporting facilities and you want everyone to have to trek from New Cross or Nrew Cross Gate or head to London Bridge & travel back to a woeful South Bermondsey station?
Considering the tracks are already laid and the extension heads to Clapham, is it not worth putting a station in by one of London's biggest redevelopment projects as well as opening that area up to travel to east & west?
I'd say it helps those kids who want access to sporting facilities and those who are going to live there reach Clapham & Shoreditch etc.
How will it benefit Millwall more for 23+ games a season? For those who drink in Surrey Docks & Peckham beforehand, it's handy, for the vast majority of us it makes no difference.
That's the key bit, why are the council paying for it? Surrey Quays is near as well.
We are the ideal target fans. They are all set up, Millwall included, to attract new fans with our kind of profile.
Hmm..Millwall never have any new replica tops in the club shop before October, but I take your point.
Millwall are a very long way behind most clubs when it comes to attracting this new type of fan.
If you look back to say 1991 and the last era of football before the Premier League brand took over. Millwall avaeraged 10,841 in the Old Second Division (Championship), our divisional rivals were the likes of Leicester City (averaged 11,546), Portsmouth (9,689), Brighton (8,386), Ipswich Town (11,772) and Charlton (6,548 - not at The Valley).
Now think how far those clubs have come since then in terms of attracting women, kids, new middle class fans, lasped fans from the bad old days of the 80s. And look at Millwall - we've stood still. We still get around 10-12,000, whereas the others have added another 10,000 onto their gates.
Hopefully this will change that. Don't get me wrong, if I could turn back the clock and have 30,000 dockers down at Cold Blow Lane I would in a heart beat. But that's gone. I want Millwall to become an established and competitive Championship club - and that needs 16,000 fans turning up week in & week out...not just for Leeds, Palace and West Ham etc or big games.
not as daft as the Surrey Canal station though. God knows how Lewisham council are going to be able to afford that.
Lewisham Council can't..it was one of the stumbling blocks (this scheme has been in the pipelines for years)...however, the investment company have offered to put up the money for a new station.
This is the presentation video by Renewal, currently at the planning office, if anyone is interested.
The Millwall board are bound to try to change their dire 'No one likes us' image and aspire to the premier big time. But they are up against a heavily biased press who will delight in labeling Millwall as thugs at every opportunity. Plus of course the fairly big minority of fans who really are thugs and love the fear and intimidation they can still build (but nothing like the old Den in its prime). I think the local yupee fans are more likely to go to West Ham.
The Millwall board are bound to try to change their dire 'No one likes us' image and aspire to the premier big time. But they are up against a heavily biased press who will delight in labeling Millwall as thugs at every opportunity. Plus of course the fairly big minority of fans who really are thugs and love the fear and intimidation they can still build (but nothing like the old Den in its prime). I think the local yupee fans are more likely to go to West Ham.
It's nothing to do with Millwall. And our chairmen likes our 'us against the world' outlook, says it's what attracted him to the club. Not to say that there aren't powers that be at the club that wouldn't like to change our image completely - the near on thousand banning orders are testament to that.
However, I do think the board see this as a chance to attract more of the day trippers in our support. The floating fans. The families of fans.
A visit to The Den isn't exactly the kind of experience most 21st century families would class as fun.The stadium is plonked next to grey industrial warehouses, a gypsy site and a cramped and non-user friendly station.
Maybe the opportunity to grab some decent food or a coffee with your family in a pleasant environment might make wives/girlfriends/workmates/ fancy coming along to more matches. The day trippers enjoyed Wembley - but don't fancy the greyness of a November day, walking past warehouses in the drizzle to watch us take on Barnsley. This might change that.
The soul of the club will still be there - I don't see a Cafe Nero or a Sports Centre stopping the brickies, plasterers, plumbers etc coming along or the Millwall fans that still live in and around SE London.
As for yuppies going to West Ham - I'd imagine if they're proper yuppies they'd much rather go to Arsenal or Chelsea, rather travel out to east London.
Maybe the opportunity to grab some decent food or a coffee with your family in a pleasant environment might make wives/girlfriends/workmates/ fancy coming along to more matches. The day trippers enjoyed Wembley - but don't fancy the greyness of a November day, walking past warehouses in the drizzle to watch us take on Barnsley. This might change that.
Still once they actually get to a match they are not denied the genuine Millwall experience of non stop effing and blinding and all round hostile atmosphere. Bet they love it !
Looks like you lot may have to stop using the 'rusty toolbox' jibe...as it seems they're going to clad it with a reflective shell...I guess you could start telling us not to throw rocks/seats in glass houses?!
Maybe the opportunity to grab some decent food or a coffee with your family in a pleasant environment might make wives/girlfriends/workmates/ fancy coming along to more matches. The day trippers enjoyed Wembley - but don't fancy the greyness of a November day, walking past warehouses in the drizzle to watch us take on Barnsley. This might change that.
Still once they actually get to a match they are not denied the genuine Millwall experience of non stop effing and blinding and all round hostile atmosphere. Bet they love it !
If they're family they will have heard worse at the family dinner table at Christmas!
Looks like you lot may have to stop using the 'rusty toolbox' jibe...as it seems they're going to clad it with a reflective shell...I guess you could start telling us not to throw rocks/seats in glass houses?!
We are the ideal target fans. They are all set up, Millwall included, to attract new fans with our kind of profile.
Hmm..Millwall never have any new replica tops in the club shop before October, but I take your point.
Millwall are a very long way behind most clubs when it comes to attracting this new type of fan.
If you look back to say 1991 and the last era of football before the Premier League brand took over. Millwall avaeraged 10,841 in the Old Second Division (Championship), our divisional rivals were the likes of Leicester City (averaged 11,546), Portsmouth (9,689), Brighton (8,386), Ipswich Town (11,772) and Charlton (6,548 - not at The Valley).
Now think how far those clubs have come since then in terms of attracting women, kids, new middle class fans, lasped fans from the bad old days of the 80s. And look at Millwall - we've stood still. We still get around 10-12,000, whereas the others have added another 10,000 onto their gates.
Hopefully this will change that. Don't get me wrong, if I could turn back the clock and have 30,000 dockers down at Cold Blow Lane I would in a heart beat. But that's gone. I want Millwall to become an established and competitive Championship club - and that needs 16,000 fans turning up week in & week out...not just for Leeds, Palace and West Ham etc or big games.
Those are interesting numbers, most clubs who moved to new grounds saw a rise in their support as a new generation of supporters was atracted. Millwall got the new ground, but its location next to the railway arches and incinerator was still 'proper Millwall FC' and hardly likely to attract middle class 'casuals', if you contrast with the ultimate middle class ground Craven Cottage, or even The Valley which is located in dull inner London suburbia.
Maybe Millwall would have been better off if they'd built their new ground in a 'nicer' location, but then it was what the council offered, and they weren't in a position to refuse.
The Millwall board are bound to try to change their dire 'No one likes us' image and aspire to the premier big time. But they are up against a heavily biased press who will delight in labeling Millwall as thugs at every opportunity. Plus of course the fairly big minority of fans who really are thugs and love the fear and intimidation they can still build (but nothing like the old Den in its prime). I think the local yupee fans are more likely to go to West Ham.
You don't have to be a thug to enjoy a hostile atmpshere & help to create one....it certainly helps though!
Bunny makes some very good points, we're trying to catch up with the rest of the world to attract more of the irregulars and floating support which big games show IS out there.
There are variety of reasons why people don't go as often and I'm sure they apply to many clubs. But whereas other clubs have maintained & grown a fanbase, we haven't at all.
This may encourage more of them down there with their family & friends, it may at the same time also turn a few people off that have been going regularly. We shall see.
Its probably a catch 22 though. If millwall had been successful on the pitch ie solidly in top half of championship or premiership they would probably have much better attendances. And again attendances probably play a part in on the pitch success.
If they stay in the champ or were to go up to the premiership then no doubt some of the 45k wembley mob would go more regularly.
Those are interesting numbers, most clubs who moved to new grounds saw a rise in their support as a new generation of supporters was atracted. Millwall got the new ground, but its location next to the railway arches and incinerator was still 'proper Millwall FC' and hardly likely to attract middle class 'casuals', if you contrast with the ultimate middle class ground Craven Cottage, or even The Valley which is located in dull inner London suburbia.
Maybe Millwall would have been better off if they'd built their new ground in a 'nicer' location, but then it was what the council offered, and they weren't in a position to refuse.
There was talk of moving to Greenwich in the absence of Charlton for a brief while...or even back to the island. But, as you say, we could hardly turn down the opportunity to move a big goal kick away when offered.
In my view the old Den was Millwall's biggest asset, even given the shocking way we, and others, were squeezed into that corner...much to the glee of the Millwall fans. Moving to the new ground seems to me to have taken a lot away from Millwall, and I don't know if it has ever been a success. Senegal Fields has a capacity of, what, 20,000? Has there ever been one single match where all seats were taken? If it hasn't happened because of segregation 'issues', then either the design is poor, or Millwall have made the authorities so on guard regarding the risks of 'closer proximity' that they have to ponder the loss of income their reputation may be causing. I wonder if there are any other grounds in the country that have never sold out, or couldn't even if the demand was there. I'm not saying Millwall fans should collectively put their Crombies over puddles to welcome away fans, but surely they could have a little think about the 'we don't care' mindset they glory in, if only to boost income for their beloved club?
I was particularly interested in the "multi faith" dimension to that glossy promo. In fact I will have a word with my Spanner mate Knuckles when I visit him next time. Apologies for the puns in advance but I am starting to think I have overdosed on the medication...
Looks like you lot may have to stop using the 'rusty toolbox' jibe...as it seems they're going to clad it with a reflective shell...I guess you could start telling us not to throw rocks/seats in glass houses?!
Or the governments way of dealing with prison overcrowding?
Would you make that witty comment about any other group of people or race?
Nope, went to Millwall as a kid many times, my brotherinlaw was a Millwall fan and was trying to 'introduce me' to supporting Millwall , saw plenty of fighting , seats being ripped out , and Millwall fans fighting each other if they couldn't fight other fans , that said i know some Millwall fans who are really nice guys , so i'm sorry if i offended you , i speak as i find , sorry if i generalise , but thats what i've seen , hope things have changed , but you can imagine being scared for life if you saw that crap as a kid and weren't interested in a ruck.
In my view the old Den was Millwall's biggest asset, even given the shocking way we, and others, were squeezed into that corner...much to the glee of the Millwall fans. Moving to the new ground seems to me to have taken a lot away from Millwall, and i don't know if it has ever been a success. Senegal Fields has a capacity of, what, 20,000? Has there ever been one single match where all seats were taken? If it hasn't happened because of segregation 'issues', then either the design is poor, or Millwall have made the authorities so on guard regarding the risks of 'closer proximity' that they have to ponder the loss of income their reputation may be causing. I wonder if there are any other grounds in the country that have never sold out, or couldn't even if the demand was there. I'm not saying Millwall fans should collectively put their Crombies over puddles to welcome away fans, but surely they could have a little think about the 'we don't care' mindset they glory in, if only to bood income for their beloved club?
This is a bit of a confused post - on one hand you're saying we lost our biggest asset, but on the other we should make the new stadium even less intimidating.
Although I do understand where you are coming from re not being allowed to fill all the seats as being a bit stupid.
For the West Ham fixture the club could have sold in the region of 22-25,000 tickets - if the capacity was there & if it had been allowed by the police - an attendance similar to our gates v West Ham at the Old Den in the 80s and early 90s.
Instead we were restricted to 16,000. Same goes with games v Leeds over recent years.
So we have actually gone backwards by moving grounds.
The only time every seat has been allowed to be sold is an FA Cup 3rd round game v Arsenal. It's our record attendance at the new place - 20,145. An attendance lower than our match v West Ham at the old Den just a couple of years earlier.
However, games v Oldham and Grimsby have seen 18,000 Millwall fans allowed to sit in the away end and the away fans allowed into the West Upper.
I was particularly interested in the "multi faith" dimension to that glossy promo. In fact I will have a word with my Spanner mate Knuckles when I visit him next time. Apologies for the puns in advance but I am starting to think I have overdosed on the medication...
You have never heard our full version of no-one likes us....
No-one likes us x 3 We don't care, But it is a shame, Cos we welcome people from all faiths and backgrounds, Cos we're Millwall, Super caring Millwall, We are Millwall... From The Den.
Shit, I took two of the big blue pills instead of the red smaller ones... a spanner called "Bunny" have some respect, at least stick "Lion" before or after it !
Seth Plum...sorry, for some reason the next paragraph was left of that reply to you...
You say in leaving the old ground we lost our biggest asset...however, since moving we've enjoyed some very strong home record seasons, including 3rd and 4th place finishes in the championship, a title winining season, and another 3 play-off seasons, a run to the FA Cup Final and an unbeaten home record in Europe (sic). We've also played more seasons in the Championship than League One since moving.
Comments
Millwall are a very long way behind most clubs when it comes to attracting this new type of fan.
If you look back to say 1991 and the last era of football before the Premier League brand took over. Millwall avaeraged 10,841 in the Old Second Division (Championship), our divisional rivals were the likes of Leicester City (averaged 11,546), Portsmouth (9,689), Brighton (8,386), Ipswich Town (11,772) and Charlton (6,548 - not at The Valley).
Now think how far those clubs have come since then in terms of attracting women, kids, new middle class fans, lasped fans from the bad old days of the 80s. And look at Millwall - we've stood still. We still get around 10-12,000, whereas the others have added another 10,000 onto their gates.
Hopefully this will change that. Don't get me wrong, if I could turn back the clock and have 30,000 dockers down at Cold Blow Lane I would in a heart beat. But that's gone. I want Millwall to become an established and competitive Championship club - and that needs 16,000 fans turning up week in & week out...not just for Leeds, Palace and West Ham etc or big games.
Welcome to the forum Bunny.
However, I do think the board see this as a chance to attract more of the day trippers in our support. The floating fans. The families of fans.
A visit to The Den isn't exactly the kind of experience most 21st century families would class as fun.The stadium is plonked next to grey industrial warehouses, a gypsy site and a cramped and non-user friendly station.
Maybe the opportunity to grab some decent food or a coffee with your family in a pleasant environment might make wives/girlfriends/workmates/ fancy coming along to more matches. The day trippers enjoyed Wembley - but don't fancy the greyness of a November day, walking past warehouses in the drizzle to watch us take on Barnsley. This might change that.
The soul of the club will still be there - I don't see a Cafe Nero or a Sports Centre stopping the brickies, plasterers, plumbers etc coming along or the Millwall fans that still live in and around SE London.
As for yuppies going to West Ham - I'd imagine if they're proper yuppies they'd much rather go to Arsenal or Chelsea, rather travel out to east London.
Maybe the opportunity to grab some decent food or a coffee with your family in a pleasant environment might make wives/girlfriends/workmates/ fancy coming along to more matches. The day trippers enjoyed Wembley - but don't fancy the greyness of a November day, walking past warehouses in the drizzle to watch us take on Barnsley. This might change that.
Still once they actually get to a match they are not denied the genuine Millwall experience of non stop effing and blinding and all round hostile atmosphere. Bet they love it !
Looks like you lot may have to stop using the 'rusty toolbox' jibe...as it seems they're going to clad it with a reflective shell...I guess you could start telling us not to throw rocks/seats in glass houses?!
http://www.newsatden.co.uk/4299-video-millwall-set-for-facelift-as-part-of-1billion-regeneration.html
At last they've listened to what the folk down at the New Den having been crying out for for years! ;-)
Maybe Millwall would have been better off if they'd built their new ground in a 'nicer' location, but then it was what the council offered, and they weren't in a position to refuse.
Bunny makes some very good points, we're trying to catch up with the rest of the world to attract more of the irregulars and floating support which big games show IS out there.
There are variety of reasons why people don't go as often and I'm sure they apply to many clubs. But whereas other clubs have maintained & grown a fanbase, we haven't at all.
This may encourage more of them down there with their family & friends, it may at the same time also turn a few people off that have been going regularly. We shall see.
If they stay in the champ or were to go up to the premiership then no doubt some of the 45k wembley mob would go more regularly.
There was talk of moving to Greenwich in the absence of Charlton for a brief while...or even back to the island. But, as you say, we could hardly turn down the opportunity to move a big goal kick away when offered.
Like Sparrow says...we've just got to go along with it and see if it's good or bad for the club.
Senegal Fields has a capacity of, what, 20,000? Has there ever been one single match where all seats were taken? If it hasn't happened because of segregation 'issues', then either the design is poor, or Millwall have made the authorities so on guard regarding the risks of 'closer proximity' that they have to ponder the loss of income their reputation may be causing.
I wonder if there are any other grounds in the country that have never sold out, or couldn't even if the demand was there.
I'm not saying Millwall fans should collectively put their Crombies over puddles to welcome away fans, but surely they could have a little think about the 'we don't care' mindset they glory in, if only to boost income for their beloved club?
Although I do understand where you are coming from re not being allowed to fill all the seats as being a bit stupid.
For the West Ham fixture the club could have sold in the region of 22-25,000 tickets - if the capacity was there & if it had been allowed by the police - an attendance similar to our gates v West Ham at the Old Den in the 80s and early 90s.
Instead we were restricted to 16,000. Same goes with games v Leeds over recent years.
So we have actually gone backwards by moving grounds.
The only time every seat has been allowed to be sold is an FA Cup 3rd round game v Arsenal. It's our record attendance at the new place - 20,145. An attendance lower than our match v West Ham at the old Den just a couple of years earlier.
However, games v Oldham and Grimsby have seen 18,000 Millwall fans allowed to sit in the away end and the away fans allowed into the West Upper.
You have never heard our full version of no-one likes us....
No-one likes us x 3
We don't care,
But it is a shame,
Cos we welcome people from all faiths and backgrounds,
Cos we're Millwall,
Super caring Millwall,
We are Millwall...
From The Den.
You say in leaving the old ground we lost our biggest asset...however, since moving we've enjoyed some very strong home record seasons, including 3rd and 4th place finishes in the championship, a title winining season, and another 3 play-off seasons, a run to the FA Cup Final and an unbeaten home record in Europe (sic). We've also played more seasons in the Championship than League One since moving.